Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[jingle.boy]

1 in 14M dude. 1 in 14M

[Ninjabait]

Soooo...basically "The GIF" is canon then?

[H2]

The FFH trailer has me so hyped. I'm so glad they are positioning Spidey to be the new face of the MCU, taking up the Iron Man mantle.

[Orbert]

I kinda have mixed feelings about that.  Iron Man and Spider-Man are two of my favorites, but to me they're very different types of superheroes.  Stark's incredible gadgets and other tech wizardry put him in the same league (mostly) as "real" superheroes like Thor and Hulk, whose powers are literally superhuman.  Stark is a mere mortal, just with amazing tech.

Spider-Man on the other hand is superhuman, but on a rather small scale.  He can climb up walls, shoot webby stuff, and has "spider sense".  Also, he's a high-school student and honestly prefers to just be "your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man" and fight crime on that scale.  I don't see him grabbing a nuclear missile and riding it up into beyond the stratosphere to save the world.

So in the trailer when they said "So you're the next Iron Man?" I didn't really make that connection.  But the MCU has played up Stark's influence on Peter Parker, and his contributions to Spider-Man's tech, so maybe that's where they're going with this.  I guess we'll see.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know.  I mean, I know that line is in there, but I kind of take it that Nick Fury is trying to get Spidey to live up to his potential.

I don't think that Marvel will ever want to have a character over which they don't have 100% control to be their "flagship" character.

[bosk1]

I don't know.  I mean, I know that line is in there, but I kind of take it that Nick Fury is trying to get Spidey to live up to his potential.

I don't think that Marvel will ever want to have a character over which they don't have 100% control to be their "flagship" character.

I agree.  But I think that, moving forward, Marvel will actually not have a true "flagship" character.  I saw talks of that being Captain Marvel.  But that didn't come from anyone at Marvel.  And let's be honest--the CM movie did great numbers, but it was also controversial, and there are a lot of people out there who flat out dislike the character.  So it ain't gonna be her.  And that's fine.  Her line that "there are a lot of other planets out there, and they don't have you guys" is perfect cover for her not being ubiquitous [she's busy elsewhere].  Who would it be?  I don't think there will be one.  I think the MCU will be a lot more loose moving forward.  I think they're just going to have a lot of films out there, loosely connected, and people who are heading toward burning out on superhero films will just sample what they like and ignore the rest, and I think Marvel would be smart to use that model (assuming they are). 

[hefdaddy42]

I agree with all of that.

[ariich]

Would you say the MCU has had a single flagship character up until now? I'm not sure it has. Good argument for Iron Man, but equally good arguments for Captain America.

So yeah I definitely agree that Marvel doesn't need a "face of the MCU".

[hefdaddy42]

Cap and Iron Man held it jointly.

[Adami]

Let me know when the MCU puts Throg as it's flagship character.

[ariich]

Let me know when the MCU puts Throg as it's flagship character.

I hadn't heard of Throg, so I googled him.

My first reaction was "haha that's so quirky".

Then I read his origin story and I'll be honest I didn't expect it so be so damn bleak. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_Walterson_(Earth-97161)

[Ninjabait]

I don't know.  I mean, I know that line is in there, but I kind of take it that Nick Fury is trying to get Spidey to live up to his potential.

I don't think that Marvel will ever want to have a character over which they don't have 100% control to be their "flagship" character.

I agree.  But I think that, moving forward, Marvel will actually not have a true "flagship" character.  I saw talks of that being Captain Marvel.  But that didn't come from anyone at Marvel.  And let's be honest--the CM movie did great numbers, but it was also controversial, and there are a lot of people out there who flat out dislike the character.  So it ain't gonna be her.  And that's fine. Her line that "there are a lot of other planets out there, and they don't have you guys" is perfect cover for her not being ubiquitous [she's busy elsewhere].  Who would it be?  I don't think there will be one.  I think the MCU will be a lot more loose moving forward.  I think they're just going to have a lot of films out there, loosely connected, and people who are heading toward burning out on superhero films will just sample what they like and ignore the rest, and I think Marvel would be smart to use that model (assuming they are).

Besides, y'know, Kevin Feige:

"When we found out that Brie Larson might be interested in joining our world, we had a number of meetings. She was a huge fan of the character in the comics. One of the highlights of my career at Marvel was introducing her at Comic-Con and having her come out on stage and stand there with literally almost everybody else from our movies. There she was at the forefront, and it was a great foreshadowing – not just for how audiences are going to embrace Brie as this character, but also for how Captain Marvel is about to take the lead and be at the forefront of the entire Cinematic Universe."

I don't really agree with anything you said there, and I think the hate towards Captain Marvel is massively overstated. She recently came 7th in a UK post-Endgame poll, tied with Black Widow and beating out Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Ant-Man, Star-Lord, Hawkeye, and Rocket (losing to Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Groot, and Spider-man). Brie Larson/Captain Marvel got brigaded hard by the incel/t_D/frenworld/MGTOW/#GamerGate crowd because of something she said in an interview that got taken out of context and her perceived feminism. Her movie was also a SMASH hit despite the boycotts being called by those folks, and critical reception was generally positive with Brie Larson's performance and Captain Marvel's character being the highlights of the film. There's also evidence of review bombs happening on Rotten Tomatoes and other sites. Even Tony Stark, who is the face of the MCU before Endgame, has a line that describes her "as the future" and "fresh new blood" that they need. Marvel's setting up her as the new face of the MCU and I think the GP is going to be welcoming of her in this role.

Honestly, the only other character I could personally see being the flagship character of the MCU is Black Panther.

[H2]

Would you say the MCU has had a single flagship character up until now? I'm not sure it has. Good argument for Iron Man, but equally good arguments for Captain America.

So yeah I definitely agree that Marvel doesn't need a "face of the MCU".

I have to qualify my claim that they are setting up Spidey to be the new face of the MCU. Iron Man, as everyone has been pointing out, wasn't really the face of the MCU either--as in the face. But he carried that role jointly with Cap (as hef pointed out) with Thor slightly in the background. The main poster for Infinity War had Iron Man front and center and the main poster for Endgame had Cap instead, which represents their joint flagship status. And the finale and denouement of Endgame held Cap and Iron Man equally in the spotlight.

Anyway, I do think that Spidey is now set up to be one of the faces of the MCU alongside several others. I don't think anyone will feature more prominently than him but others will certainly be tied. I could definitely be wrong, but as far as I can tell, he's presently tied with Dr. Strange and Black Panther for flagship status. Ant-Man looks like he'll remain a fun background character, same with as the Guardians (whom Thor will be joining). It's hard to predict what they'll do with Captain Marvel. It could go any way with her. I could see her taking what was Thor's status as an extremely OP and popular character. (Remember Thor didn't become extremely popular until his third solo movie.)

As a young actor, Tom Holland is poised to be in the MCU for a very long time, perhaps longer than anyone else ever was or will be. I heard the idea floated that they should do a high school trilogy plus a college trilogy, which is fine by me. He's already featured prominently in two Avengers movies and Civil War. But even Iron Man only had three solo movies, so I could really see them making Spidey the flagship at some point in the future, even if they take their time getting there.

[lordxizor]

The only issue with Spiderman is the whole Sony situation. My understanding is that it's a bit of a handshake deal with Marvel over having him in the MCU. If Sony decides to do their own thing again with him after the success of Venom and potential future other Spiderman offshoots, there's not much Marvel can do about it. So I'm not sure it's a great plan to put him front and center when they're not fully I'm control of the character.

Clearly the solution is for Disney to buy Sony pictures (j/k).

[MinistroRaven]

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/9/18534442/mcu-black-widow-death-revival-avengers-endgame-theories-marvel-cinematic-universe

 

[Adami]

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/9/18534442/mcu-black-widow-death-revival-avengers-endgame-theories-marvel-cinematic-universe

 

She's dead bro.

Writers and directors have said it. She dead.

I hope she stays dead. I know in comics, everyone comes back to life no matter what. This, however, is a different medium. It cannot be treated the same way. If no one stays dead, very little has lasting impact. That's one of the reasons I loved the 5 year time jump so much. Real consequences. Not a reset button. Stops it from being simple fun fluff.

[gzarruk]

I hope she stays dead. I know in comics, everyone comes back to life no matter what. This, however, is a different medium. It cannot be treated the same way. If no one stays dead, very little has lasting impact. That's one of the reasons I loved the 5 year time jump so much. Real consequences. Not a reset button. Stops it from being simple fun fluff.

This. Before Endgame, I was really hoping they didn't bring Gamora back to life, because it would cheapen THAT emotional moment on Vormir., and I'm glad they didn't. BW here is the same case.

[Orbert]

Yeah, it's just a bummer that they're both hot babes and now they're dead.  Well Natasha's dead but we still get a solo movie, and Gamora's dead but we have the other one who skipped five years.  It's complicated.

[MinistroRaven]

[Orbert]

I'm assuming that that's because Endgame broke some kind of record previously held by Titanic?

[The Walrus]

I'm assuming that that's because Endgame broke some kind of record previously held by Titanic?

Avengers is the only movie to beat Titanic at the box office besides Avatar (also excluding Gone With The Wind).

Looks like it still has 400M to go to beat Avatar. Can it do it? It's slowed down significantly in the last few days.

[bosk1]

Yeah, but I have only seen it once and plan to go back.  So part of that $400M will be made up right there.

[Adami]

I'm assuming that that's because Endgame broke some kind of record previously held by Titanic?

Avengers is the only movie to beat Titanic at the box office besides Avatar (also excluding Gone With The Wind).

Looks like it still has 400M to go to beat Avatar. Can it do it? It's slowed down significantly in the last few days.

Well if you adjust inflation, it is behind a lot more than Gone with the Wind and Avatar. I think Star Wars A New Hope is much higher as well. It's a very different list.


And we'll see how this weekend goes, but I'd say it's about done making crazy bank. The markets are just very different than with Avatar.

1. Avatar came out around Christmas. So it had a whole holiday with very little competition for months.
2. Avatar made most of its money from markets that are neither America or China, while Endgame made most of its money from America and China. This matters because China's pattern has all been front loaded. A ton of money very quickly then they move on to the next movie. Endgame isn't making nearly as much as Avatar in markets that aren't America or China.
3. Connected to first point, but this movie came out in April. Actually a miracle it did this well. But it had no holidays and now the competition is here.

If this movie had come out around Christmas, it'd probably have beaten Avatar by now.

[The Walrus]

Totally agree, Adami, great party.

[Zook]

Didn't Avatar get a rerelease that added to the total box office?

[MinistroRaven]

Didn't Avatar get a rerelease that added to the total box office?

Yes it did

[Adami]

Didn't Avatar get a rerelease that added to the total box office?

Yes it did

I tried to do a little research, and from what I was able to find, the rerelease did not add substantially to its overall gross.

[Ninjabait]

Just watched the Season 6 premiere of AoS. It was good, I get the feeling that it's not going to quite be Season 4/5 levels of good, but it's gonna still be a great season. The VFX in this season is just insane, all the space scenes look killer.

Also apparently we're still pre-Snap, even if it's a year after last season.

[Adami]

Yea, the pre-snap thing is a bit weird.

I like where they're going, so I'm hoping for a good season. Wondering where next season will fall on the timeline.

[jingle.boy]

Having seen it a 3rd time, I have a few minor quips/observations:

Nat/Clint on Voromir.  How did the know where to go? On a whole planet, they just happened to know where the stone was gonna be?
Nebula.... just hit the goddamn GPS button and get the hell out of there once you realize you're on the tractor beam.  And why did Rhodey/Nebula need that escape pod anyway?
Where did Rhodey get the fresh Iron Patriot suit when Giant Man broke them out of the rubble?

That's it really... just a few more minor nits.  Still a fantastic movie, but a few more plot ... hiccups ... than IW had, which makes IW the better film - in my opinion of course.

[gzarruk]

That's it really... just a few more minor nits.  Still a fantastic movie, but a few more plot ... hiccups ... than IW had, which makes IW the better film - in my opinion of course.

IW also had better action scenes. Nothing tops the fight on Titan IMO.

Anyway, I'm most likely watching Endgame for the 2nd time tonight, let's see how it feels now that I've seen it before.

[jingle.boy]

I'm torn as to whether I like the Titan fight, or the IM/Cap/Thor v Thanos fight better.  Both were absolutely spectacular, and magnificently choreographed.

[Ninjabait]

Having seen it a 3rd time, I have a few minor quips/observations:

Nat/Clint on Voromir.  How did the know where to go? On a whole planet, they just happened to know where the stone was gonna be?
Nebula.... just hit the goddamn GPS button and get the hell out of there once you realize you're on the tractor beam.  And why did Rhodey/Nebula need that escape pod anyway?
Where did Rhodey get the fresh Iron Patriot suit when Giant Man broke them out of the rubble?

That's it really... just a few more minor nits.  Still a fantastic movie, but a few more plot ... hiccups ... than IW had, which makes IW the better film - in my opinion of course.

01) I'd imagine Nebula had a vague knowledge of where it was on the planet. Gamora could have easily spilled the beans on Thanos's ship before they left for Vormir and she spilled her brains. Nebula could have also seen through the portal when Gamora and Thanos teleported through it to Vormir the first time. It's also a giant, conspicuous mountain-altar on what's otherwise a barren magic tundra planet.

2) Just in case things went south. They probably had that as a contingency plan in the event that they weren't successfully able to get the stone from Morag.

3) Tony Stark designed the War Machine suits, so I'd imagine that he has some compact back-up device stored somewhere and he put it on when it was safe and dry. Or it flew in from somewhere else, or it's nanites.

[The Walrus]

An extremely minor thing that bugged me was where everyone arrived on Vormir: very far away from the mountain. Reminds me of the Family Guy bit when Brian sees a sign for Austin so he hops off the truck he's riding on.

Stewie: Why did we get off here?
Brian: My mother lives in Austin. Fate's brought me back here for a reason. I have to find my mother and make peace with her.
Stewie: Oh, so she's in Austin, hm? Eight miles that way?
Brian: Yes.
Stewie: All right. So instead of driving down this sun-parched highway, we've now got to walk.
Brian: Uh pretty much, yeah.

 

[Cyclopssss]

Finally saw Endgame. Great movie. Amazed how funny it is. Have to rewatch soon.