Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[Orbert]

That has always seemed deliberate to me.  The TV shows, to have any kind of credibility, need to tie into the movies, but the movies don't "need" the TV shows.

[Ninjabait]

Notice any certain pattern there?  Namely:  The tv shows acknowledge events in the films, but the films pretty much ALWAYS ignore the tv shows (you reference three possible examples of the films being influenced by the tv shows, but those are completely speculative).

Yes, I'm aware, but the question was mainly about the TV shows acknowledging the movies. Honestly, it's going to be a long while before the TV side influences the MCU side directly. But, apparently, the TV characters were considered by the Russos for IW/Endgame, but they eventually decided against it for logistical reasons.

Honestly I think it's going to be a one-way street for the foreseeable future

Edit: So I just read an interview with Clark Gregg, and the word is at the 7th season of AoS will be the last. It seems like Marvel's cleaning up shop a little bit to avoid this in the future.

[Zook]

The kid from Iron Man 3 and Jurassic World mutated into a completely different person in just 3 years.

[ariich]

100 bucks says that don't really deal with any of it beyond a quick mention.

Which is all the TV/movie crossovers have been for the last few years, so yeah you're probably right. We could be surprised.

I mean, AoS is pretty closely tied to the events of the MCU films and the Defenders series:

-Winter Soldier's revelation that SHIELD had been infiltrated by HYDRA directly influenced the Season 2 plot of AoS
-Captain Marvel and AoS both have characters who have been infused with Kree blood (and I'm willing to bet that Carol Danvers was a big inspiration for the creation of the TAHITI project)
-Fury references AoS vaguely at the end of Age of Ultron when he's pulling up in the helicarrier (Coulson was the one who had it fixed in AoS)
-The Sokovia Accords directly effect the events of AoS in the later seasons
-Talbot becoming Graviton is as a direct result of the threat Thanos showed to Earth
-Coulson tells Hill the location of the Scepter, who passes that information on to the Avengers
-Vision references more people gaining powers (paraphrasing) at the beginning of Civil War, which is a sneaky reference to the Inhuman explosion in AoS just before this

And then easter eggs:
-There's apparently a missing book in one of the sanctums in Dr. Strange, which was taken during AoS (I'm not 100% sure on this one, but I did hear it)
-Fury uses a device invented by Fitz to escape his car in Winter Soldier
-Lady Sif, Nick Fury, and Mariah Hill appear in AoS
-Daisy Johnson and Matt Murdock grew up in the same orphanage
-Speaking of, the Metro General Hospital that Claire works at in the Netflix MCU appears in Dr. Strange (and this is a fictional hospital)
-The Watchdogs episode of AoS references season 2 of Daredevil with news reports about "shootings and gang violence in Hell's Kitchen"
-Jack Murdock fought Carl Creel in the ring before all of this took place
-The Dogs of Hell appear in both the Netflix shows and AoS
-Judas Bullets appear in Luke Cage and AoS
-Micro, the hacker from season 1 of Punisher, is mentioned by Daisy two years before Punisher debuted

Honestly, most of it IS easter eggs for a lot of reasons, most of them office politics between Marvel Studios and Marvel TV. Most of the directors/producers/actors/fans seem very open to the idea of crossovers.

This appears to prove my point, thanks.

I enjoyed the more significant crossovers that happened in the first couple of seasons of AOS (the Hydra/Winter Solider story was genuinely superb) but I appreciate how complex that must be and particularly the tensions between Marvel Studios and Marvel TV. So I don't mind it being lower-level mentions these days.

[Lonk]

Wait...so since Tony figured out time travel, can we safely say he’s smarter than Shuri?

[faizoff]

In my rewatch of the phase one movies I realized that in the first Avengers movie, it isn't exactly explained how Thor is able to travel to Earth. All we see is some lightning and Thor appears. With Loki we know he came via the portal opened by the Tesseract. In the first Thor movie, in the end we see the bifrost bridge get destroyed and Loki mentions there are other ways to go in and out of Asgard.

Was it ever mentioned how Thor is able to transport like that? I know in Infinity War he gets Stormbreaker which allows him travel. Did Mjolnir have the same power?

[ariich]

Wait...so since Tony figured out time travel, can we safely say he’s smarter than Shuri?

I don't think it says anything one way or the other. He solved it based on Pym's theories and technology as prompted by Scott. Nothing to say whether Shuri could or couldn't have also solved it in the same situation.

[Adami]

In my rewatch of the phase one movies I realized that in the first Avengers movie, it isn't exactly explained how Thor is able to travel to Earth. All we see is some lightning and Thor appears. With Loki we know he came via the portal opened by the Tesseract. In the first Thor movie, in the end we see the bifrost bridge get destroyed and Loki mentions there are other ways to go in and out of Asgard.

Was it ever mentioned how Thor is able to transport like that? I know in Infinity War he gets Stormbreaker which allows him travel. Did Mjolnir have the same power?

Loki mentioned Odin using dark magic to get Thor to Earth.

[bosk1]

In my rewatch of the phase one movies I realized that in the first Avengers movie, it isn't exactly explained how Thor is able to travel to Earth. All we see is some lightning and Thor appears. With Loki we know he came via the portal opened by the Tesseract. In the first Thor movie, in the end we see the bifrost bridge get destroyed and Loki mentions there are other ways to go in and out of Asgard.

Was it ever mentioned how Thor is able to transport like that? I know in Infinity War he gets Stormbreaker which allows him travel. Did Mjolnir have the same power?

Loki mentioned Odin using dark magic to get Thor to Earth.

Yes.  This is mentioned in Thor: TDW.  But it is again referenced in Infinity War when Heimdall asks for the dark magic to send Hulk to earth.

[Orbert]

Someone mentioned that there are four people in the universe who are "worthy"?  I don't remember that from the old lore, but it's been a long time.

Anyway, there's this:  Thor Meets Mr. Rogers

[Ninjabait]

Someone mentioned that there are four people in the universe who are "worthy"?  I don't remember that from the old lore, but it's been a long time.

Anyway, there's this:  Thor Meets Mr. Rogers

Oh yeah, that was me. I was just talking about how only 5 characters in the MCU have shown to be able to hold Mjolnir or Stormbreaker: Thor, Hela, Vision, Captain America, and Thanos. Also, that comic hit me right in the feels.

I was thinking about it earlier, and honestly I think Black Widow in IW/Endgame is one of the best portrayals of a female super hero or even a female action hero in general we have in film. Like...there's no points of obvious sexualization of her character in either movie that I can think of. Her outfits in both movies are more practical and more in line with what her male counterparts are wearing, and it doesn't seem like they're obviously designed to "highlight" anything. On top of that, there is little to no references to romantic relationships (just one acknowledge awkward moment with Bruce) and she spends approx. 0 moments in the movie talking about love, her infertility, or anything of that sort. Every bit of her dialog in the movie is a reaction to her established character arc ("red in the ledger", etc.) or the events going around her. They let her have awesome action moments, awesome non-action moments, and even some moments of emotional suffering. Often times it feels like male writers try to go too far in one direction or the other, and either end up writing a hot mess of a stereotype or an uninteresting "hardcore" woman who doesn't feel anything and just seems like a jerk. Even her scene on Vormir establishes her and Hawkeye as each other's "that which you love most" WITHOUT it being or feeling romantic in any way. They're just really close friends who happen to be of the opposite sex rather than the directors/writers trying to shoehorn some romance there. It feels like they wrote her as a superhero who happens to be a woman, rather than a woman who happens to be a superhero and that is SO refreshing to see. It honestly makes me so much more excited for her solo movie.

[MinistroRaven]

Someone mentioned that there are four people in the universe who are "worthy"?  I don't remember that from the old lore, but it's been a long time.

Anyway, there's this:  Thor Meets Mr. Rogers

Oh yeah, that was me. I was just talking about how only 5 characters in the MCU have shown to be able to hold Mjolnir or Stormbreaker: Thor, Hela, Vision, Captain America, and Thanos. Also, that comic hit me right in the feels.

6 if counting Thanos, don't forget Odin.

And according to Wikipedia we have a long list of wielders:

Individuals in the primary continuity

    Thor Odinson[28]
    Roger "Red" Norvell[29]
    Beta Ray Bill[30]
    Captain America[31][32]
    Eric Masterson[33]
    Odin (Thor's father)
    Bor (Thor's grandfather)[34]
    Buri (also known as Tiwaz, Thor's great-grandfather)[35]
    Loki[36][37]
    Jane Foster[21][38]
    Squirrel Girl[39]
    The Destroyer [40]
    Steve Rogers[41] (only possible after the cosmic cube rewrote reality to change the nature of the enchantment)

And some other listed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mjolnir_(comics)#Wielders

[Adami]

Yea, the comics list is much much longer.

In the movies, Stormbreaker can be wielded by anyone. Don't have to be worthy.

As far as I know the hammer originally belonged to Thor and Hela, so both of them can lift it without necessarily being worthy. Of those that were deemed worthy, so far it's just Thor, Vision, and Cap.

[Ninjabait]

Yea, the comics list is much much longer.

In the movies, Stormbreaker can be wielded by anyone. Don't have to be worthy.

As far as I know the hammer originally belonged to Thor and Hela, so both of them can lift it without necessarily being worthy. Of those that were deemed worthy, so far it's just Thor, Vision, and Cap.

I wasn't sure on that, so I looked it up and it looks like you're right. So I guess Thanos isn't worthy. Just Thor/Vision/Hela/Odin/Cap.

Also, Thor and Hela have to be deemed "worthy" to wield it. The whole arc of Thor's first movie is him proving that he's worthy. Then there's him saying "I'm still worthy" in Endgame

[bosk1]

Thanos didn't lift Mjolnir, did he?  I'm not recalling him doing that.  The only ones in the MCU that lifted Mjolnir are Thor, Vision, and Cap on screen (and you can make an argument for Odin). 

I believe it was implied that, worthy or not, Odin played a role in the enchantment being part of it anyway, and it's not clear whether the enchantment itself was applied at the time he speaks of it when he casts Thor out in the first Thor movie, but it seems that way. 

As mentioned above, I think Hela's situation was (1) her power supersedes the enchantment, so it's not a question of her being "worthy" and (2) she had a relationship with the hammer before Thor was even born, as shown in the painting she uncovers in Ragnarok, which appears to show her with it (which also seems to support that the enchantment was added later).  But in Ragnarok, she doesn't "weild" it--she merely stops it and destroys it, which, going back to point #1 seems to show that she was simply more powerful than the enchantment.

And as Adami said, there was no such enchantment placed on Stormbreaker.

[Adami]

I'm not sure what you're saying at the end. I think Odin and Hela might supersede the worthiness enchantment since they could hold it beforehand? Best I can come up with.

Plus hela doesn't actually wield it. She catches it and shatters it. Minor difference, but a difference.

[The Walrus]

Thanos didn't lift Mjolnir, did he?

Thanos lifted Mjolnir after he attacked Starkiller Base and killed Cersei. Keep up, bosk...

[bosk1]

I'm not sure what you're saying at the end. I think Odin and Hela might supersede the worthiness enchantment since they could hold it beforehand? Best I can come up with.

  That's what I said.  Which part at the end to you not understand?

Plus hela doesn't actually wield it. She catches it and shatters it. Minor difference, but a difference.

  That's what I said.

[Adami]

I'm not sure what you're saying at the end. I think Odin and Hela might supersede the worthiness enchantment since they could hold it beforehand? Best I can come up with.

  That's what I said.  Which part at the end to you not understand?

Plus hela doesn't actually wield it. She catches it and shatters it. Minor difference, but a difference.

  That's what I said.

I think you posted it right as I did. So I was responding to the post before yours.

DAMN YOUR FAST FINGERS!

Yea, looks like there was a 30 second difference between our posts. Great minds think alike.

[jingle.boy]

There was a line in Ragnarok where Hela said "He told you you were worthy. He said the same thing to me."  Which suggests the enchantment has always been there.  In Thor (movie), Odin shouts at Thor "You are UNWORTHY", and thus negating his ability to wield it.  If it was that simple, you'd think Odin would've made Hela unworthy too, no.  But maybe when he banished her, he forgot to make her unworthy.  Then, he couldn't, because she was banished, so she technically remained "worthy"?  That's the best I can do. 

In the comics, the inscription was put on when the hammer was forged, so the enchantment ALWAYS has been in place.  I just assumed the line from the movie was solely for the purposes of audience members who didn't know jack-shit about Mjolnir, not WHEN the enchantment was placed on the hammer.

Back to the EG spoilers, I noticed when Prof Hulk was gonna bring Cap back from the return-the-stones mission, just before he counted got to zero in his countdown, there was a sound effect suggesting old-Cap came back.  But I'm not really sure the logic as to how/why he blew right past the platform.  Also not sure what time period he's bringing the shield from?

[Adami]

There was a line in Ragnarok where Hela said "He told you you were worthy. He said the same thing to me."  Which suggests the enchantment has always been there.  In Thor (movie), Odin shouts at Thor "You are UNWORTHY", and thus negating his ability to wield it.  If it was that simple, you'd think Odin would've made Hela unworthy too, no.  But maybe when he banished her, he forgot to make her unworthy.  Then, he couldn't, because she was banished, so she technically remained "worthy"?  That's the best I can do. 

In the comics, the inscription was put on when the hammer was forged, so the enchantment ALWAYS has been in place.  I just assumed the line from the movie was solely for the purposes of audience members who didn't know jack-shit about Mjolnir, not WHEN the enchantment was placed on the hammer.

Back to the EG spoilers, I noticed when Prof Hulk was gonna bring Cap back from the return-the-stones mission, just before he counted got to zero in his countdown, there was a sound effect suggesting old-Cap came back.  But I'm not really sure the logic as to how/why he blew right past the platform.  Also not sure what time period he's bringing the shield from?

Well Odin enchants the hammer right when he casts out Thor, so I assume that's when it came about. Maybe beforehand you had to be worthy of Hela? Who knows.

And cap brought the shield back from an alternate reality. Not sure we'll ever get that story, but I'm fine without it.

[bosk1]

Back to the EG spoilers, I noticed when Prof Hulk was gonna bring Cap back from the return-the-stones mission, just before he counted got to zero in his countdown, there was a sound effect suggesting old-Cap came back.  But I'm not really sure the logic as to how/why he blew right past the platform.  Also not sure what time period he's bringing the shield from?

I don't think that brought him "back."  Remember--he took extra vials of Pym particles--i.e., more than what he and Tony needed for the initial mission.  I've seen it suggested by a theorist that was getting pretty deep on how the multiverse time travel theory is supposed to work that when Cap went back and stayed with Peggy, another alternate reality was formed.  If that is the case, he would have used a vial to transport back to the "present" time AND reality without the need for Hulk's time travel machine, just as he and Tony were able to do with their own supply of particles when they jumped from 2009 back to 1970.  But I don't even think that is necessary.  To me, it seemed like what was implied was just that he went back to be with Peggy and lived out his life, and then at the right time, him being still alive, he strolled up to the park bench and sat down.  But I dunno.  Hard to tell what they intended with that.

[jingle.boy]

I read that theory too (I think it was posted here, no?).  Anyway, I'm not stuffed over how he got to the bench.  I was totally fine with it.  But, whatever reality he came from, isn't the assumption that he came/went back to Peggy *after* Steve Rogers went (with the shield) into the ice?  Not a big deal, but I'm just curious how the timeline would've played out for him to get a hold of a shield to give to Sam.

[bosk1]

If we could ask the screen writers, I'm not sure whether there is a thoughtful explanation, or whether they would say "don't overthink it; we didn't."  I'm good either way.

[Adami]

I say how he got the shield isn't too important.

Regarding how he got to the bench....I dunno....but they did confirm he lived his life in an alternate timeline, so the cap on that bench traveled back to the prime reality to do that.

[jingle.boy]

If we could ask the screen writers, I'm not sure whether there is a thoughtful explanation, or whether they would say "don't overthink it; we didn't."  I'm good either way.

You know where you are right now, eh?  This is DTF.  No one would have more than 500 posts if we didn't overthink. 

[gmillerdrake]

I say how he got the shield isn't too important.

Regarding how he got to the bench....I dunno....but they did confirm he lived his life in an alternate timeline, so the cap on that bench traveled back to the prime reality to do that.

When did they confirm that? In the movie or a subsequent interview?

[Adami]

I say how he got the shield isn't too important.

Regarding how he got to the bench....I dunno....but they did confirm he lived his life in an alternate timeline, so the cap on that bench traveled back to the prime reality to do that.

When did they confirm that? In the movie or a subsequent interview?

Interview. I think it was posted a few pages ago.

[MinistroRaven]

I say how he got the shield isn't too important.

Regarding how he got to the bench....I dunno....but they did confirm he lived his life in an alternate timeline, so the cap on that bench traveled back to the prime reality to do that.

When did they confirm that? In the movie or a subsequent interview?

An interview with the writers of the time travel of Endgame

[Adami]

So something that just hit me. Minor, but sweet.

In homecoming, Peter tries to hug Tony but is told "we're not there yet" then when Tony sees Peter after the snap he just gives him a huge hug.


Also just to have it on record from the directors and/or writers, both 2019 Gamora and 2023 Black Widow are dead forever. They said the soul stone trade is permanent, so even if Cap put the stone back, they don't come back to life or anything.

I know some people thought they'd come back, but unless she was dusted, then we have 2014 Gamora in 2023 and no more Black Widow.

[jingle.boy]

That hug moment was really cool.  And Peter's comment ... "oh, ok... this is nice".

[gmillerdrake]

That hug moment was really cool.  And Peter's comment ... "oh, ok... this is nice".

As someone who isn't nearly as invested in the franchise as others.....that hug and look on Stark's face made the movie for me. That moment was awesome and some weird thing happened in my eyes where water started filling them?

[The Walrus]

Loved that hug.

Someone on reddit pointed out that Ben Mendelsohn is visible at the end of Endgame, the principal standing in the halls behind Peter when he goes back to school. Ben also plays Talos in Captain Marvel. Coincidence?!

[Orbert]

So something that just hit me. Minor, but sweet.

In homecoming, Peter tries to hug Tony but is told "we're not there yet" then when Tony sees Peter after the snap he just gives him a huge hug.

Nice.  So many callbacks, Easter eggs, nuggets... they're everywhere.

Also just to have it on record from the directors and/or writers, both 2019 Gamora and 2023 Black Widow are dead forever. They said the soul stone trade is permanent, so even if Cap put the stone back, they don't come back to life or anything.

I know some people thought they'd come back, but unless she was dusted, then we have 2014 Gamora in 2023 and no more Black Widow.

Sad but true.  Makes both the upcoming Black Widow movie and GotGv3 more interesting (maybe).

[MinistroRaven]

Loved that hug.

Someone on reddit pointed out that Ben Mendelsohn is visible at the end of Endgame, the principal standing in the halls behind Peter when he goes back to school. Ben also plays Talos in Captain Marvel. Coincidence?!

He's there. Yes.