Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[bosk1]

That's odd.  I fixed it.

A couple of other observations:

-I make no bones about the fact that I really like Iron Man III.  It has its issues.  But overall, it's a really strong movie, and it has so many great moments.  One of those moments is when Tony's house gets destroyed.  It's one thing to fight the bad guys out on some pre-determined "battlefield."  It's another thing entirely when they just show up and make your home into ground zero.  That feels like a much more personal violation.  In that moment, Tony's and Pepper's personal lives--not Tony's "superhero life"--were being violated.  And it all happened with such sudden, brutal, thorough violence that that just added to that feeling.  Granted, it's a little different when the bad guys show up at "superhero headquarters."  But when Thanos arrived just after Hulk's snap and did the same thing, it really felt to me like a callback to that moment in IM III, and it totally worked for me.  Perhaps it was so effective because it came so suddenly after such a triumphant moment and turned the emotion of that moment around 180 degrees.

-Regarding the final battle being "short," I don't really have too much problem with that.  With Thanos on the battlefield, I think it would likely be a short battle.  With very few exceptions, he could lay waste to anybody else on that battlefield in seconds.  And he had the black order at full strength as well.  You either find a way to beat him pretty quickly, or he's going to lay waste to everything pretty quickly.  It's what he does.

-Act I both in the present and the early part of 2023 when they were just showing the aftermath felt slow.  I know it needed to.  It was totally necessary.  But the pacing just felt a little too slow for a little too long. 

[lordxizor]

One thing I have a big problem with was Hulk bring back the dusted to the present time in the movie rather than just undoing the snap back when it happened. Imagine the complete mess of bring people back after 5 years of being gone. Everyone else has aged, spouses have gotten remarried, economies have collapsed and been rebuilt, infrastructures have adapted to the smaller population, etc. It would be a logistical nightmare and complete mindfuck to those involved. All of this done just because Tony Stark couldn't imagine a world without his daughter.

[jingle.boy]

Act I both in the present and the early part of 2023 when they were just showing the aftermath felt slow.  I know it needed to.  It was totally necessary.  But the pacing just felt a little too slow for a little too long. 

Agreed.  I think there were a few areas of the 'planning' stages of getting the stones back that could've been trimmed, but otherwise, almost all of that was necessary.

Also... good Forbes article.  Makes sense now - though I'm still not sure going back in time to a *different* timeline is plausible.  As soon as Cap stayed in 1945, he created a new timeline.  Not sure he could then live through 2023, then travel back to the 'prime' timeline.

@ lordxiaor... agreed.  Instantly doubling the population would be a bigger mess than halving it in the first place.

I'm so confused.

[The Walrus]

One thing I have a big problem with was Hulk bring back the dusted to the present time in the movie rather than just undoing the snap back when it happened. Imagine the complete mess of bring people back after 5 years of being gone. Everyone else has aged, spouses have gotten remarried, economies have collapsed and been rebuilt, infrastructures have adapted to the smaller population, etc. It would be a logistical nightmare and complete mindfuck to those involved. All of this done just because Tony Stark couldn't imagine a world without his daughter.

I think that's a pretty hot take... Plus, that's not how time travel works, as they explained in the movie: if he was to undo the snap from 5 years ago, that wouldn't change anything about this reality. It would create another time branch, one in which the universe was put back together, but they would still be living in that post-apocalyptic reality, with none of their friends brought back, and Thanos would have won... there's no clean and easy solution to what Thanos did, I think they did the right thing.

[Adami]

One thing I have a big problem with was Hulk bring back the dusted to the present time in the movie rather than just undoing the snap back when it happened. Imagine the complete mess of bring people back after 5 years of being gone. Everyone else has aged, spouses have gotten remarried, economies have collapsed and been rebuilt, infrastructures have adapted to the smaller population, etc. It would be a logistical nightmare and complete mindfuck to those involved. All of this done just because Tony Stark couldn't imagine a world without his daughter.

I think that's a pretty hot take... Plus, that's not how time travel works, as they explained in the movie: if he was to undo the snap from 5 years ago, that wouldn't change anything about this reality. It would create another time branch, one in which the universe was put back together, but they would still be living in that post-apocalyptic reality, with none of their friends brought back, and Thanos would have won... there's no clean and easy solution to what Thanos did, I think they did the right thing.

Agreed.

I think it added weight to the situation and left dire consequences. If everything had just been "undone", it would have cheapened the movie as well as Infinity War. I think bringing them all back but 5 years later was great, especially for how difficult life is going to be returning to. Now what Thanos did has lasting impact. They didn't just make it all meaningless.

[lordxizor]

One thing I have a big problem with was Hulk bring back the dusted to the present time in the movie rather than just undoing the snap back when it happened. Imagine the complete mess of bring people back after 5 years of being gone. Everyone else has aged, spouses have gotten remarried, economies have collapsed and been rebuilt, infrastructures have adapted to the smaller population, etc. It would be a logistical nightmare and complete mindfuck to those involved. All of this done just because Tony Stark couldn't imagine a world without his daughter.

I think that's a pretty hot take... Plus, that's not how time travel works, as they explained in the movie: if he was to undo the snap from 5 years ago, that wouldn't change anything about this reality. It would create another time branch, one in which the universe was put back together, but they would still be living in that post-apocalyptic reality, with none of their friends brought back, and Thanos would have won... there's no clean and easy solution to what Thanos did, I think they did the right thing.

Maybe, time travel stuff is a logic nightmare anyway. If that was the case, they should have explained it that way instead of having Tony basically tell the team they had to do it that way because of his daughter.

[Adami]

They did explain it that way. They also brought in the emotional element of Tony not wanting to lose everything he had. He simply reminded them multiple times of it.

[The Walrus]

One thing I have a big problem with was Hulk bring back the dusted to the present time in the movie rather than just undoing the snap back when it happened. Imagine the complete mess of bring people back after 5 years of being gone. Everyone else has aged, spouses have gotten remarried, economies have collapsed and been rebuilt, infrastructures have adapted to the smaller population, etc. It would be a logistical nightmare and complete mindfuck to those involved. All of this done just because Tony Stark couldn't imagine a world without his daughter.

I think that's a pretty hot take... Plus, that's not how time travel works, as they explained in the movie: if he was to undo the snap from 5 years ago, that wouldn't change anything about this reality. It would create another time branch, one in which the universe was put back together, but they would still be living in that post-apocalyptic reality, with none of their friends brought back, and Thanos would have won... there's no clean and easy solution to what Thanos did, I think they did the right thing.

Maybe, time travel stuff is a logic nightmare anyway. If that was the case, they should have explained it that way instead of having Tony basically tell the team they had to do it that way because of his daughter.

But they did. Earlier on. When Bruce was explaining time travel, and when the Ancient One was talking to Professor Hulk.

Plus, the whole thing about Tony's daughter... those are Tony's stakes. He wanted his family. He ended up having his family. He was lost in space for 3 weeks, sure that he was going to die, and then he miraculously came home, and spent 5 years with his wife and daughter. I do not blame him one bit, after everything that man has been through and then you throw Infinity War on top of it all? Yeah man. I don't at all blame him.

[lordxizor]

They did explain it that way. They also brought in the emotional element of Tony not wanting to lose everything he had. He simply reminded them multiple times of it.

I'll take your word on that. Tony's pleas are all I remember.

[Samsara]

The one thing I will always take from the film -- what Pepper said to Tony at the end...was verbatim what I told my mother as she was passing. Tons of emotion from me during that. Really gut wrenching. Proper end for Tony. And for Cap.

[bosk1]

I would like to take just a moment to discuss...hammers. 

Going back to Cap only being able to slightly budge Mjolnir in AOU and not completely lift it, I saw some online speculation that the hammer recognized him as potentially worthy, but not yet fully worthy until he would later come clean about Bucky murdering Tony's parents.  I don't think that's right.  First off, I'm not so sure Cap knew at that point in time.  It's possible he did.  But we don't know for sure.  But I don't think that actually has anything to do with him wielding or not wielding Mjolnir.  I actually think he was just faking not being able to lift it.  I think he felt it move, and immediately stopped, knowing he had nothing to prove.  There's a reason Steve didn't get up and try right in the beginning.  I don't think he really wanted to or felt the need to.  But I think he absolutely could have picked it up at that point in time if he had chosen to.

[Adami]

I would like to take just a moment to discuss...hammers. 

Going back to Cap only being able to slightly budge Mjolnir in AOU and not completely lift it, I saw some online speculation that the hammer recognized him as potentially worthy, but not yet fully worthy until he would later come clean about Bucky murdering Tony's parents.  I don't think that's right.  First off, I'm not so sure Cap knew at that point in time.  It's possible he did.  But we don't know for sure.  But I don't think that actually has anything to do with him wielding or not wielding Mjolnir.  I actually think he was just faking not being able to lift it.  I think he felt it move, and immediately stopped, knowing he had nothing to prove.  There's a reason Steve didn't get up and try right in the beginning.  I don't think he really wanted to or felt the need to.  But I think he absolutely could have picked it up at that point in time if he had chosen to.

Yea, I doubt there's any fully true or accurate reason. I think the fans are free to figure it out as they see fit. I like your theory, but I believe Steve found out about Bucky killing Tony's parents in Winter Soldier, which was before he tried to lift it. So I'm fine with either.

Personally I just see it as this being the end of Cap's journey. He was finally worthy. He was close before, and managed to get there. I just it leave it there.

[RuRoRul]

I would like to take just a moment to discuss...hammers. 

Going back to Cap only being able to slightly budge Mjolnir in AOU and not completely lift it, I saw some online speculation that the hammer recognized him as potentially worthy, but not yet fully worthy until he would later come clean about Bucky murdering Tony's parents.  I don't think that's right.  First off, I'm not so sure Cap knew at that point in time.  It's possible he did.  But we don't know for sure.  But I don't think that actually has anything to do with him wielding or not wielding Mjolnir.  I actually think he was just faking not being able to lift it.  I think he felt it move, and immediately stopped, knowing he had nothing to prove.  There's a reason Steve didn't get up and try right in the beginning.  I don't think he really wanted to or felt the need to.  But I think he absolutely could have picked it up at that point in time if he had chosen to.

I don't think he was able to lift it and faked it. Since this seems such a popular interpretation I even watched the scene again to see if there's anything to suggest he stops pulling when the hammer twitches slightly and I'm not seeing it.

I think it's just a bit of simple foreshadowing; the Captain was the one who was possibly worthy and possibly going to wield the hammer at some point in the future, so there's a slight movement when he tries to pick it up. I think it's possible people could choose to retroactively view the scene as though he could have picked it up but chose not to, but I definitely don't think there's anything in the scene that pushes anyone towards that interpretation. For myself personally, I actually don't even think the idea that Cap was pulling sleight of hand would be that great or fitting for his character. But if people do like that idea then it's cool that the possibile interpretation exists.

I could definitely see (and like the interpretation) that there's a difference between picking it up as a party trick and actually really wanting to wield it, say to protect the universe. Considering he was able to later I could definitely buy into the idea that if Cap had really wanted (or rather needed) to wield the hammer he could possibly have done so even back then. But I don't think it was about him consciously misleading people.

I don't think telling Tony about his parents was the key thing either. That's one thing he did since Age of Ultron, but he has gone through a lot of stuff since then. Just because a character is already a very good person doesn't mean they can't go through a bit more growth; knowledge about Tony's parents was just a part of that journey.

[bosk1]

You could very well be right.  But it has always looked to me like he wasn't even trying to lift it anyway.  It wasn't that he was trying and stopped when he felt it move.  It's that he wasn't even trying anyway, and it moved in the process. 

[MinistroRaven]

Does Hela counts as Worthy of wielding Mjolnir? I mean, she stopped it when Thor threw it to her, how could she possibly do this without being worthy?

[bosk1]

Does Hela counts as Worthy of wielding Mjolnir? I mean, she stopped it when Thor threw it to her, how could she possibly do this without being worthy?

I think the point there is that her power was greater than that of Mjolnir and superseded the worthiness enchantment.

[The Walrus]

Does Hela counts as Worthy of wielding Mjolnir? I mean, she stopped it when Thor threw it to her, how could she possibly do this without being worthy?

I think the point there is that her power was greater than that of Mjolnir and superseded the worthiness enchantment.

That's what I thought, even moreso when she shatters it.

[Nick]

We saw this Sunday night, and wow, what an end to the series. I am with everyone on being overall impressed and satisfied. I think the greatest credit to the movie is how upset everyone was on a handful of deaths when literally half the living creatures in the universe were brought back into existence. In any logical terms Iron Man, Black Widow, and a handful of minor characters was a small price to pay and something we shouldn't be too upset about.

My only major complaint the entire film, the only time I almost went "really?" out loud was the female empowerment scene. So many great female characters in the movies, but putting that there just seemed so heavy handed and unnecessary.

A personal favorite, among many others was seeing Skylord getting knocked out prior to retrieving his stone, and calling all the way back to Guardians 1 and his astonishment of getting it so easily.

[bosk1]

My only major complaint the entire film, the only time I almost went "really?" out loud was the female empowerment scene. So many great female characters in the movies, but putting that there just seemed so heavy handed and unnecessary.

I didn't mind that at all.  There are fan service moments all over these films where you have things like the original six just happening to all come together in the same spot mid-battle and finding a moment to strike an epic group photo pose, or the heroes walking single file toward the place where they are going to begin the time-heist, perfectly spaced, with perfect backlighting that makes for an awesome slow-mo shot.  The comics do the same thing, and always have.  I think we're just a bit oversensitive to shots like the one you described because folks on both sides of the feminist and diversity debate have been screaming too loudly for too long about what should just be a bit of fun entertainment.

[The Walrus]

I agree with bosk - when I saw the shot in the film the same thoughts went through my head, but I almost immediately brushed it off 'cause it looked so cool. Looked way cooler than that part in Infinity War with the three or four women ganging up on Proxima Midnight anyway.

[bosk1]

That said, I am tired of Brie Larsen continuing to try to make it about feminism and diversity.  If a superhero film has kind of built-in reasons, characterwise, storywise, or what have you, for it to be an effective vehicle for a particular agenda, then so be it.  That's fine.  But there doesn't have to be an agenda for agenda's sake.  And neither her hero nor her film were that great, IMO, so I wish she would just shut it and let me enjoy my movies. 

[erwinrafael]

The biggest thing that bothered me was Mantis striking a fighting pose. Twice. Like, really? 

[Adami]

The biggest thing that bothered me was Mantis striking a fighting pose. Twice. Like, really? 

Yea, but....to be fair (and a bit silly) she is the only one thus far to effectively subdue Thanos. 

[Ninjabait]

Not to veer off-topic, but the Russos did confirm that Cap ended up marrying Peggy in an alternate timeline/universe and just traveled back to the mainline 2023 at the end. Here's the full Q&A session that happened in China, translated by u/gianben123 on reddit:

Q: Why Iron Man has to be the one to do the final snap, couldn't the people like Thor, Star-Lord or Captain Marvel whom all previously have handled the power of Infinity Stones done it instead?

A: Thor in this movie couldn't do it, only Hulk was strong enough to do the snap without dying. We are still not sure whether Captain Marvel can also withstand all the power of Infinity Stones at once. The reason we choose to let Iron Man do it in the end was because he was the closest one to Thanos at the time. In all the futures Doctor Strange foresee, Iron Man was the only one who could get close to Thanos and do the snap. People usually think the death of a hero is a horrible tragedy. But we think this is different. When his death was able to bring back hope, to save half of the universe, then his death was powerful and meaningful. We shouldn't feel too sad or angry about it.



Q: Peggy Carter was probably already married and in her mid 40s in 1970, in that case what year was it that Captain America went back to dance with her?

A: We can't answer it for now, this is a story that happened in an alternate reality. Maybe it will be revealed in the future.



Q: Did Captain America's action at the end affect the timeline? Does that mean there was a time where two CA existed in a same universe?

A: To me, CA's action in the end wasn't the fact he wanted to change anything, it's more like me has made a choice. He chose to go back to past and lived with the one he loved for the rest of his life. The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don't know how exactly his life turned out, but I'd like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world. Yes, there were two CA in that reality, it's just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon.



Q: In both IW and EG, the heroes tried their back to take the glove away from Thanos, so why didn't Doctor Strange just cut off Thanos' hand with his ability?

A: Thanos' skin is almost impenetrable, we don't know whether Doctor Strange had the capability to do it. If he failed to cut it on time, Thanos would still able to do the snap. Doctor Strange realized this issue during his millions of test runs.



Q: Why did you make Thor fat? Did Chris also become fat for the role or it was done through CG?

A: It was mostly CG'd. Thor suffered more loss than anyone else, he has been living in constant pain and regret.



Q: Was old Cap played Evans using make up? Or it was also post production CG?

A: 95% CG, 5% make up. But the voice was 100% Evans, no modification for that.



Q: Can you get the soul your sacrificed for the Soul Stone back when you return it?

A: No, the process is irreversible. Even if you have returned it to its original location, you wouldn't be able to get the person back. In fact, it's not really returning the stone, more like put it back properly. The tribute soul for the soul stone will forever be sealed in that place, therefore Black Widow is gone forever.



Q: How would Cap react when he encounter Red Skull when he returned the stone?

A: Red Skull would probably put the soul stone back to its location, and wait for the next unfortunate stone seeker to make sacrifice. Cap and Red Skull probably won't fight. It's because it's his mission to return the stone to its original place. The Red Skull is also no longer the same Red Skull from FA. He is more like a ghost, you could almost say he's a completely different entity now. He only exists to guard the stone, his past conscious may or may not exist anymore.



Q: In IW, Thanos used the time stone to reverse the time so he could the already dead Vision, and it didn't cause any time parallax. Why did no one use time stone to save Iron Man's life in EG?

A: It's because even if you save Iron Man, it will still not change the fact that Thanos will eventually win the war. Among the 14 million possibilities that Doctor Strange has seen, Iron Man's sacrifice is a must for that one win scenario.



Q: How did Thanos bring his army to the future?

A: There is a guy called Maw in his army, he was a great wizard. Thanos himself was a brilliant genius as well. Those two easily reverse engineered and mass produced Pym Particles.



Q: What about those people who got dusted? What did those five years mean to them? Why didn't they grow older when undusted?

A: Yes, those people whom was lucky to survive the snap are 5 years older than the people who just got back. The reason Spider Man saw his friend again in high school at the end was simply because his friends was unfortunately also dusted like Spider Man was. Of course, there are people in his grade whom didn't die and they are probably already in colleges by now. To those dusted people, they had no conscious in these past 5 years. They didn't know what happened. It's as if they had just woke up from a long sleep. The only one who was aware about how many years has passed was Doctor Strange, because he has already seen that when he was time mediating on Titan. Parker's reunion with Ned was a touching moment. There are also people whom indeed moved on but suddenly was reunited with their lost ones. Yeah it's kind a complicated world now.



Q: What if the mouse didn't press the button to turn on the quantum machine, wouldn't that stop EG from happening? Isn't this a bit too much of a coincidence?

A: Yes, the MOUSE SAVED THE UNIVERSE. Among the many realities in those 14 millions possible futures Doctor Strange foresee, the mouse failed to press button and thus the heroes failed in those futures.



Q: EG's plot, is it a parallel universe or a closed time loop?

A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancient One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.



Q: There were some metal smashing sound when the movie ended. Was that an easter egg? or just a tribute to Iron Man, or maybe an implication that Iron Man will return?

A: It was our way to say goodbye to him.



Q: Why there was no Iron Man's body in his funeral, only his arc reactor? And is there any secret messages for bring back that kid from Iron Man 3?

A: We just feel that he should participate in Iron Man's funeral. As for whether he will appear again in future, who knows.



Q: Why didn't Black Widow get a funeral as well?

A: Did you forget when the heroes where mourning for her after when they returned from past? Maybe her funeral happened off screen. Maybe it will be shown in future installment, because there are still tons of stories in MCU that are waiting to be tell.

[Adami]

Very cool, thanks for posting that. I'm assuming it's legit? Hard to tell from reddit.


Either way, that's what I eventually settled on with Cap too. Still wish they just gave it 5 more minutes, but such is life.

[jingle.boy]

My only major complaint the entire film, the only time I almost went "really?" out loud was the female empowerment scene. So many great female characters in the movies, but putting that there just seemed so heavy handed and unnecessary.

I didn't mind that at all.  There are fan service moments all over these films where you have things like the original six just happening to all come together in the same spot mid-battle and finding a moment to strike an epic group photo pose, or the heroes walking single file toward the place where they are going to begin the time-heist, perfectly spaced, with perfect backlighting that makes for an awesome slow-mo shot.  The comics do the same thing, and always have.  I think we're just a bit oversensitive to shots like the one you described because folks on both sides of the feminist and diversity debate have been screaming too loudly for too long about what should just be a bit of fun entertainment.

But those 'fan service' moments like what you mention are (while contrived) appropriate to the events inside the film.  The girl-power moments are service to society - outside the film.  That's why I roll my eyes at it.  I don't want to get to a big debate over it, because I'm not overly bothered about it, I just feel it's SO contrived and blatant that it makes it feel out of place.  The battle against Proxima in IW didn't feel nearly as contrived as lining up all 8-9 female heroes at once for them to have that female moment in EG.

That said, I am tired of Brie Larsen continuing to try to make it about feminism and diversity. .... But there doesn't have to be an agenda for agenda's sake.

But isn't that what *that* moment (in the movie) is about?  I don't know how it can be interpreted as anything but feminism and diversity - an agenda for agenda's sake.  For all the characters that didn't get a lot of screentime in the final battle, why did the filmmakers chose ONLY (and all?) female characters to escort Captain Marvel to the Quantum device.  Screams 'agenda' to me.

[bosk1]

I can't really dispute what you are saying.  I'm just saying that I am fine with it and don't feel it is that big a deal.  To me, it doesn't feel much more out of place than the things I mentioned.  Your mileage may vary, and in that case, I would respectfully disagree.  But no biggie either way.

[jingle.boy]

I can't really dispute what you are saying.  I'm just saying that I am fine with it and don't feel it is that big a deal.  To me, it doesn't feel much more out of place than the things I mentioned.  Your mileage may vary, and in that case, I would respectfully disagree.  But no biggie either way.

Agreed!

Viewing number 2 tomorrow night.  Really looking forward to it.  Might even snatch a Tuesday night viewing again in a few weeks.

[JayOctavarium]

I agree with Chad.

I was waiting to see how they shoehorned a scene like that in, and rolled my eyes when I saw it. It doesn't negatively impact the movie for me at all. It's just... yea

[bosk1]

Anyone read any of the comments by Markus and McFeely about the whole time travel arc, and when they came up with it, and how they were going to do it and all that?  (link here for those interested)  One of the things that caught my eye is that for the longest time, they weren't going to have the team go back to the battle of New York and were going to have them get the stones from other places/times instead.  I'm REALLY glad the story turned out how it did.  Some of the best stuff in the movie centered around the battle of New York.

Of course, they completely lucked out on finding the time stone there at that time, if you stop and think about it.  At that time, before Strange became Sorceror Supreme and set up his home base in the New York sanctum, I think it would have been housed in Katmandu unless the Ancient One specifically took it somewhere on a mission.  But the Avengers didn't know that.  They mistakenly believed that Strange would have been keeping it permanently in NY, and were actually completely wrong, but lucked out in having it there anyway at the moment they had returned to.

[JayOctavarium]

Anyone read any of the comments by Markus and McFeely about the whole time travel arc, and when they came up with it, and how they were going to do it and all that?  (link here for those interested)  One of the things that caught my eye is that for the longest time, they weren't going to have the team go back to the battle of New York and were going to have them get the stones from other places/times instead.  I'm REALLY glad the story turned out how it did.  Some of the best stuff in the movie centered around the battle of New York.

Of course, they completely lucked out on finding the time stone there at that time, if you stop and think about it.  At that time, before Strange became Sorceror Supreme and set up his home base in the New York sanctum, I think it would have been housed in Katmandu unless the Ancient One specifically took it somewhere on a mission.  But the Avengers didn't know that.  They mistakenly believed that Strange would have been keeping it permanently in NY, and were actually completely wrong, but lucked out in having it there anyway at the moment they had returned to.

I assumed that The Ancient One was there to help protect the sanctuary during the Battle of New York.

[bosk1]

No, I think that's right.  But if not for the battle of New York, she presumably would not have been there.  But the Avengers didn't know that she was only there for the battle, and that the stone wasn't permanently kept there.  They made an assumption that the stone was there.  And in that one instance, they were right, but their reasoning for believing it was there was completely wrong and would have gotten them a big zero if she hadn't been there or if she had chosen to come and fight with just her powers and other artifacts and left the stone back in the library in Katmandu.

[JayOctavarium]

No, I think that's right.  But if not for the battle of New York, she presumably would not have been there.  But the Avengers didn't know that she was only there for the battle, and that the stone wasn't permanently kept there.

Right. So still luck.

[Orbert]

When Banner/Hulk showed up in New York, didn't she say something like "You're five years too early"?  I couldn't follow everything she said about Strange and why she had the stone.

[The Walrus]

When Banner/Hulk showed up in New York, didn't she say something like "You're five years too early"?  I couldn't follow everything she said about Strange and why she had the stone.

Yup. She knew all about Stephen Strange but not Thanos which I don't fully understand but whatever.