Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[ariich]

Let's say:  No spoilers in this thread for two weeks after official release this Friday.

NO SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD until May 10th.  I will start a separate Endgame thread for spoilery discussion and will just merge them on the 10th.

Thank you.  I am not seeing it until April 30th, so it's good to know I will have a safe space.

All the best people are seeing it on April 30th.

Also me.

o/

      o
     /=
o/*|\

You perv.

[King Postwhore]

Get a cyber room you 2.  Drive In on the 27th.  Can't wait!

[Adami]

So continuing my rewatch, few nights ago was Avengers: Infinity War (we're getting close to the end here guys, I'll be done soon!)

This god damn movie. Jesus. We'll see how much I have to say about such a tight movie.

So, like most Marvel fans, I am familiar with the original Infinity War comics. They were....okay. Not what I would consider to be the best, but definitely huge and important. When they announced this movie, I was concerned with how they would translate it to film. First, as much as I love Thanos in the comics, I couldn't see that version of the character working in the films. Killing half of all existence to impress lady Death cause he wants to bang her? That's a tough sell without looking super silly. So the change to making him less of a super evil crazed bad guy, and more into someone...totally nuts....thinking he is doing the right thing was a great choice. You empathized with Thanos here, where in the original comics, you really can't. Second, total change of characters. Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer play huge roles in that story, and neither are in the movies. But, after Civil War, I had full trust in this team to make good changes, adaptations, etc and keep the underlying theme of the story and make it fit the MCU. And boy did they do just that.

The movie has a WHOLE lot in it. I can definitely say that it's not my favorite Marvel movie, but it definitely comes close at times. Sadly, I think there's just too much exposition, set up, etc., which was 100% necessary, but unfortunately makes the re-watch a bit more obvious in that it's such a set up. Not a huge criticism, but keeps it from being my favorite.

Quick thoughts on Hulk by the way. On first viewing, the no Hulk thing was very confusing. A lot of people said Hulk didn't come out cause Thanos scared him in the beginning. Probably. Directors said that he didn't come out cause he was sick of being used as a weapon. 2nd (or whatever this was) viewing really was better at seeing the idea that Hulk is pissed that he is only used as a weapon.

I don't have much else to say, honestly, it's a great movie. However, there is one thing I really want to emphasize. I've been reading/watching spoiler-free reviews of Endgame, and everyone...EVERYONE....is praising the Russo brothers. And rightfully so. That said, there are two names people are neglecting.

Stephen McFeely and Christopher Markus. These dudes are the writers for Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame, and others. These guys wrote those amazing scenes and lines. They need WAY more credit than they are getting.

Anywho, likes and dislikes.

Likes:
- Guardians and Thor one-upping each other with the bad dad's thing.
- All of the Guardians and Thor stuff. Just amazing chemistry
- Rabbit
- Wanda dropping her accent. Smart move. Did it make a ton of sense? Nope, but it made the character less odd and distracting.
- Thor's arrival is obviously the coolest thing ever
- Spider-Man's death......jesus. To find that Tom Holland improvised that...I'M NOT CRYING! YOU'RE CRYING!
- The silent dusting. Just a great creative decision.

Honestly, that list could eventually include almost every character/scene/etc.

Dislikes

- A ton of exposition. Necessary, but a drag.
- Not sure. Great movie.


Tonight is Ant-Man and the Wasp. Then we done!

[The Walrus]

Good stuff, Adami. My only two gripes with Infinity War: the entire chunk from the Wanda-Vision scene in London up through Cap's reappearance is a slog to me. Still annoyed that they gave away the Cap reveal in all the trailers and TV spots too. The other gripe is that Ebony Maw was the only member of the Black Order with any personality or time to shine, and unfortunately he was the first one killed. After a few minutes of seeing him in the film, I was hoping he'd play a big role, like Thanos's intellectual right hand man, maybe even into Endgame, but nope.

[bosk1]

That scene with Wanda and Vision was supposed to be longer, too.  After seeing the extended scene, it kinda reinforced to me that the final cut felt about right. 

The other gripe is that Ebony Maw was the only member of the Black Order with any personality or time to shine, and unfortunately he was the first one killed. After a few minutes of seeing him in the film, I was hoping he'd play a big role, like Thanos's intellectual right hand man, maybe even into Endgame, but nope.

I hear what you are saying, but two things:
1.  Most of the time, when I hear the complaint of "So-and-so was too interesting a character to go out like that! He deserved better!" it doesn't resonate with me.  I guess that's because it's a reflection of real life.  The most interesting people with the most interesting back stories don't always get to live the longest lives and have the most satisfying deaths.  It's basically the same complaint with Snoke, for example.  That's just not how life goes.  So while I too would have liked to have seen more of him, I'm cool that he met his demise. 
2.  I actually think 3 of the 4 black order members we were shown were pretty interesting, and that it would have been cool to see any of them make it.  But going back to Adami's point about how well done Thanos was, he always seemed real and seemed relatable.  And that goes all the way to his final (or almost final) scene in the movie when he tells Gamorra that he lost "everything."  I think he had to literally lose everyone that we had seen close to him for that to have weight. 


Anyhow, I thought it was a great film as well.  Thus far, my favorite in the MCU.  And yet, I almost never have much desire to see it again.  I haven't figured out why that is.

[Samsara]

No spoilers. But...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX3PlxvdEf4

[erwinrafael]

That final battle scene had the whole cinema shouting. After people fell silent with what happened in Vormir (I think a lot of us were crying silently LOL), the climax was like the cathartic fan service we need. The shouts started when Cap picked up Mjolnir, literally the cinema exploded.

[lonestar]

May wanna change this threads title then.. Just saying...

Good thinking bosk, I've also updated this thread's title to make the distinction as clear as possible.

Er...

What I was on break during after a fourteen hour day with four hours sleep, you expect me to be detail oriented as well?

Everyone hide in the crypts of the Avengers' tower! It's safe there! Wait...

 

Less than 20 hours....finishing up my last viewing of Infinity War...they're all fading away to ashes now as I type this.

[jingle.boy]

12 hours and we'll be underway.  Watched IW last night, and I have some additional minor nits to add.

Banner knew too much about Thanos and his plan.  Heimdaal sent him on his way before knowing if Thor/Loki stopped him.  Everything he knew was presumptive and (as stated) purely conjecture to setup Thanos' motives.
There was SOOOO much going on, some things felt rushed (Thanos' back story, Rhodey's 'all-is-forgiven' attitude towards Cap and the crew) or omitted (Xandar being laid to waste; some kind of back story for the Black Order)

Things I loved:
The use of the B-list was perfect, especially Wong (with The Collector a close second).  Too bad Hugo didn't want to actually be part of this.
Zoe's acting on Voromir.  Someone said it before, but her reaction after the tears "are not for him" was amazing.
Thor and Rocket's scene.  You know what I'm referring to.
Thor's entrance - possibly my favorite movie moment ever now.

One thing I found fascinating while watching the Commentary version a few months back, Cap's entrance to save Vision from Corvus *in Wakanda* was his first appearance in the movie in early cuts of the script.

[erwinrafael]

I am perfectly fine with Xandar's defeat not being shown on screen. It made me feel the surprise and terror that the characters felt when they heard the news.

[Grappler]

I am perfectly fine with Xandar's defeat not being shown on screen. It made me feel the surprise and terror that the characters felt when they heard the news.

Yeah, not everything has to be shown on-screen.  I like that the movie dropped you right in the middle of Thanos' quest for the stones, already having acquired the first one, with Thor and Loki in trouble. 

[jingle.boy]

I am perfectly fine with Xandar's defeat not being shown on screen. It made me feel the surprise and terror that the characters felt when they heard the news.

Really?  It's not like we didn't 'know' that it had happened.  Did you think Thanos just popped in and politely asked John C to give it to him?  A brief flash back... or maybe Vision having some visions about it via the Mind stone - rather than just having a bit of a migraine?  I dunno.  Something.

@ Grappler... agreed, I very much like the way it started, so I'm not sure how they could've/should've handled Xandar better, I just think it would have been more satisfying to have been given something other than a one sentence reference by Thor.

[Dream Team]

12 hours and we'll be underway.  Watched IW last night, and I have some additional minor nits to add.

Banner knew too much about Thanos and his plan.  Heimdaal sent him on his way before knowing if Thor/Loki stopped him.  Everything he knew was presumptive and (as stated) purely conjecture to setup Thanos' motives.
There was SOOOO much going on, some things felt rushed (Thanos' back story, Rhodey's 'all-is-forgiven' attitude towards Cap and the crew) or omitted (Xandar being laid to waste; some kind of back story for the Black Order)

Things I loved:
The use of the B-list was perfect, especially Wong (with The Collector a close second).  Too bad Hugo didn't want to actually be part of this.
Zoe's acting on Voromir.  Someone said it before, but her reaction after the tears "are not for him" was amazing.


Thor and Rocket's scene.  You know what I'm referring to.
Thor's entrance - possibly my favorite movie moment ever now.

One thing I found fascinating while watching the Commentary version a few months back, Cap's entrance to save Vision from Corvus *in Wakanda* was his first appearance in the movie in early cuts of the script.

Totally agreed on the bolded part, but unfortunately necessary exposition to clue Stark and Strange in. He also said "Thor's gone" without actually witnessing Thanos destroying the ship.

[MinistroRaven]

I finally got tickets to watch it with my wife and oldest son on Saturday 1.30pm I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

 

[bosk1]

I fully agree that we didn't need to see anything about Xandar. 

[gzarruk]

I finally got tickets to watch it with my wife and oldest son on Saturday 1.30pm I CAN'T WAIT!!!!

 

It's been CRAZY to get tickets for the movie here in Lima, almost all the screenings for today and tomorrow are sold out already. I got tickets for tomorrow at 5:20 pm, but got terrible seats

[The Walrus]

So about Banner 'knowing' about Thor... pretty sure Bruce didn't expect Thor to live after what Hulk had just gone through. Hulk just got freaking wrecked almost effortlessly, and Thor got knocked out even faster. I don't blame him for thinking everybody including Thor died on that ship. Xandar, I agree, we didn't need to see that.

[bosk1]

So about Banner 'knowing' about Thor... pretty sure Bruce didn't expect Thor to live after what Hulk had just gone through. Hulk just got freaking wrecked almost effortlessly, and Thor got knocked out even faster. I don't blame him for thinking everybody including Thor died on that ship.

Exactly.

[jingle.boy]

So about Banner 'knowing' about Thor... pretty sure Bruce didn't expect Thor to live after what Hulk had just gone through. Hulk just got freaking wrecked almost effortlessly, and Thor got knocked out even faster. I don't blame him for thinking everybody including Thor died on that ship. Xandar, I agree, we didn't need to see that.

Sure, that's the rationale (and it's legit) ... but he didn't know for certain.  It was conjecture on Banner's part.

And on that topic - given some of the shots that Thor gave Hulk in the Grandmaster's arena (and his fight with Hulkbuster in AoU), I still struggle to fully accept that a dozen or so punches from Thanos was such a devastating beatdown.

[The Walrus]

So about Banner 'knowing' about Thor... pretty sure Bruce didn't expect Thor to live after what Hulk had just gone through. Hulk just got freaking wrecked almost effortlessly, and Thor got knocked out even faster. I don't blame him for thinking everybody including Thor died on that ship. Xandar, I agree, we didn't need to see that.

Sure, that's the rationale (and it's legit) ... but he didn't know for certain.  It was conjecture on Banner's part.

And on that topic - given some of the shots that Thor gave Hulk in the Grandmaster's arena (and his fight with Hulkbuster in AoU), I still struggle to fully accept that a dozen or so punches from Thanos was such a devastating beatdown.

In the spirit of good fun conversation: how can you struggle to accept that? Let me paint the picture: Thanos is a 700 pound otherworldly being with immense combat prowess and intelligence, and we literally saw him take out Hulk with expertly timed and masterfully executed attacks (look how fast he chops him in the neck and beats him down after that). He easily picks up Hulk and smashes him into the ground. The Hulk's never gone up against a foe like that, Thor landed some good hits in the arena, but this was a methodical takedown by a malevolent force. And on top of all that, on top of all his natural strength, Thanos has the power stone augmenting his abilities beyond anything in the known universe.

Conjecture, yeah, but I mean, I still think what Banner said was totally reasonable.  Yeah, I'm a big goddamn nerd, sue me 

EDIT: Just checked, apparently MCU Thanos is about 700 pounds, Hulk is 1400. Thanos is half Hulk's weight (but taller) and clapped his ass so hard Hulk went into hiding and won't come out to play anymore.

[jingle.boy]

Yes, what Banner said was absolutely reasonable, but he had no way of KNOWING it was accurate.  Look, I'm being nitpicky here... it's just a MINOR nit I'm pointing out - in the spirit of discussion.

And to me, you've kinda proved my point.  How does what Thanos did amount to a total beatdown of Hulk, when what Thor/Hulkbuster did to him not even phase Hulk?  Thanos is 700 lbs and clapped his ass.  Gotchya.  Thor is what - 250 and by all appearances, clapped his ass harder in Ragnarok.  Physically speaking, launching Hulk a couple hundred feet in the air with a lightning shot, or hitting him so hard he looses a tooth seems just as - if not more - punishing than a kidney blow and an overhead body slam.  Plus, there was no indication that Thanos used the Power stone during that fist fight. 

I see what you're saying, I'm just having trouble buying what you/Russo's are selling.

[Phoenix87x]

It was pretty decent. Not something that I'm gonna watch over and over, but it did what it needed to do, and did it well.

I was definitely getting Back to the future II vibes in places.

and My bladder definitely can't handle almost 3 hours though 

[Dream Team]

So about Banner 'knowing' about Thor... pretty sure Bruce didn't expect Thor to live after what Hulk had just gone through. Hulk just got freaking wrecked almost effortlessly, and Thor got knocked out even faster. I don't blame him for thinking everybody including Thor died on that ship. Xandar, I agree, we didn't need to see that.

Sure, that's the rationale (and it's legit) ... but he didn't know for certain.  It was conjecture on Banner's part.

And on that topic - given some of the shots that Thor gave Hulk in the Grandmaster's arena (and his fight with Hulkbuster in AoU), I still struggle to fully accept that a dozen or so punches from Thanos was such a devastating beatdown.

Thank you. And as I mentioned earlier in the thread, what about the "half of the people rule"? There was no certainty Thor would be killed, not to mention - where again are half the Asgardians that Thanos supposedly spared?

[jingle.boy]

Well, the refugee ship was busted in half via the initial pummelling from Thanos' ship.

[The Walrus]

Yes, what Banner said was absolutely reasonable, but he had no way of KNOWING it was accurate.  Look, I'm being nitpicky here... it's just a MINOR nit I'm pointing out - in the spirit of discussion.

I have no problems with being nitpicky. That's the fun of this type of conversation! I have it with my buddies all the time over this stuff

And to me, you've kinda proved my point.  How does what Thanos did amount to a total beatdown of Hulk, when what Thor/Hulkbuster did to him not even phase Hulk?  Thanos is 700 lbs and clapped his ass.  Gotchya.  Thor is what - 250 and by all appearances, clapped his ass harder in Ragnarok.  Physically speaking, launching Hulk a couple hundred feet in the air with a lightning shot, or hitting him so hard he looses a tooth seems just as - if not more - punishing than a kidney blow and an overhead body slam.  Plus, there was no indication that Thanos used the Power stone during that fist fight.

Because Thanos is stronger than Thor and the Hulkbuster? I don't understand the logic you're using; if Thor and the Hulkbuster couldn't "even phase Hulk" then what's the problem with us getting front row seats to Hulk's historic ass whooping by Thanos? Thanos is stronger, end of story. I'd argue Thor did not clap Hulk harder in Ragnarok than Thanos clapped him in IW. All you have to do is watch Hulk's face against Thanos. Hulk wasn't afraid of Thor even when they were going at it, but there is actual fear in Hulk's face when he's getting hit by Thanos. Hulk can feel his might in every single attack. In Ragnarok, Hulk was going up against an opponent of similar strength - not so in IW.

Thanos doesn't have to actively use the power stone by the way - pretty sure he gets passive strength just by having it in the gauntlet, in his possession. Quill about got obliterated when he touched the stone, and Thanos was able to crush the Tesseract and hold the space stone in his hands like it was a pebble. I'm not sure if that's because he already had the power stone and therefore could hold it, or if he is simply so naturally powerful that he is able to handle the stones on their own, but there ya go. Thanos is physically stronger than Thor and Hulk by a wide margin.

EDIT: Boy this is way longer than it should be. Anyway, the biggest point to all of this is that Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier. He wasn't getting angry against Thanos - he was getting scared, by his sheer power and fluid combat. That fear weakens him.

[bosk1]

Yeah, exactly what Katt said.  JB, I don't understand your logic.

[The Walrus]

In a way I kind of get it; the arena battle in Ragnarok was almost Dragon Ball levels of ridiculous fighting especially with those high-in-the-air shots and jumps. But the fear of Thanos and how fear affects Hulk is absolutely critical in understanding why Hulk got wrecked so quickly.

[jingle.boy]

Hey look, your logic an reasoning is sound.  I'm just not FULLY buying it based on the physicality of that fight sequence.

[The Walrus]

You should fully buy it, 'cause Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier, and he wasn't getting angrier in that Thanos fight.

Nerd.  

[jingle.boy]

You should fully buy it, 'cause Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier, and he wasn't getting angrier in that Thanos fight.

Nerd.  

Oh, I know that part... that's why he was able to beat a superior fighter in Abomination.  I'm just not buying the fear angle.  I get that *is* the angle, I just don't think it's completely believable based on what we saw.  He just went after Surtur like 12 hours before hooking up with Thanos, but as soon as Thanos pulls Hulk off of him (not much different than Thor out-fighting/thinking him in Avengers 1), he's all of a sudden scared shitless?

[bosk1]

Yes.  Because it is different than when he fought Thor.  And it is different than him thinking he can beat Surtur (although he quickly learned that he couldn't).  We we are supposed to take away from that is that he quickly realized that Thanos makes Thor, Surtur, etc. look like children in comparison, and Hulk quickly recognized that.  That's why Banner was in such a panic to explain that very thing after crashing into the Sanctum.

[The Walrus]

Yes.  Because it is different than when he fought Thor.  And it is different than him thinking he can beat Surtur (although he quickly learned that he couldn't).  We we are supposed to take away from that is that he quickly realized that Thanos makes Thor, Surtur, etc. look like children in comparison, and Hulk quickly recognized that.  That's why Banner was in such a panic to explain that very thing after crashing into the Sanctum.

Bingo. Bosk... we're agreeing on too much lately. 

[jingle.boy]

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!!! 

You guys fully bought that angle; I didn't/don't.

Bingo. Bosk... we're agreeing on too much lately. 

Why don't the two of you go hug it out in a shopping cart or something. 

[bosk1]

Yes.  Because it is different than when he fought Thor.  And it is different than him thinking he can beat Surtur (although he quickly learned that he couldn't).  We we are supposed to take away from that is that he quickly realized that Thanos makes Thor, Surtur, etc. look like children in comparison, and Hulk quickly recognized that.  That's why Banner was in such a panic to explain that very thing after crashing into the Sanctum.

Bingo. Bosk... we're agreeing on too much lately. 

Oh, don't worry.  After personally offending me by saying all Christians are immoral liars that you could never trust in the P/R section, we're right where we're supposed to be. 

[The Walrus]