Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[jammindude]

1. Infinity War
2. Winter Soldier
3. Doctor Strange
4. Civil War
5. Avengers
6. GOTG
7. Black Panther
8. Iron Man
9. Spider-Man
10. First Avenger
11. Ant Man
12. GOTG 2
13. Age of Ultron
14. Ragnarok
15. Iron Man 2
16. Ant Man/Wasp
17. Thor
18. The Incredible Hulk
19. Thor - Dark World
20. Iron Man 3


I don't "not like" any of them.     I would watch any one of them again.   

And to address what gmillerdrake said about them being just good.    In a way, you're right.   But it's sortof like the whole is better than the sum of its parts situation.   Even the "just OK" movies are elevated by the scope of the universe.   The Incredible Hulk for instance.   If it had been just a movie that came out 10 years ago, made a bunch of money, and then gone on to cable purgatory....I would most likely never own it, or watch it.  I wouldn't care.   But the fact that it is a small part of a larger story enhances my enjoyment of it.    Instead of being a short, forgettable sonnet, it becomes an important piece of "ACT I".

[Adami]

I assume this post will get lost in a bunch of rankings, but such is life.

Started my big rewatch tonight with Cap First Avenger. Many of these movies I’ve only seen maybe 2-3 times and not in a long time. I know a lot of people did the big rewatch for Infinity War but I waited for Endgame.

Anyway. Cap 1 was much better than I remember. It gets a lot of hate but I really liked it.

Also at the beginning when Red Skull gets the tesseract, I was like “woah is that Walder Frey?” And lo and behold it was. Crazy.

[bosk1]

Started my big rewatch tonight with Cap First Avenger. Many of these movies I’ve only seen maybe 2-3 times and not in a long time. I know a lot of people did the big rewatch for Infinity War but I waited for Endgame.

That's cool.  Wish I had the time.

Anyway. Cap 1 was much better than I remember. It gets a lot of hate but I really liked it.

It gets a lot of hate?  It's a good movie.  I don't think I've noticed any "hate" for it, outside of maybe people who don't like Marvel/superhero movies anyway.

[Adami]

Hate is a strong word, but it usually gets lumped in with the bottom tier Marvel movies.

And even though I think Winter Soldier and Civil War are better movies, there are aspects to Rogers that this movie hits that the others just haven't. Him being socially uncomfortable and him being an artist to relieve stress. The other movies kind of dropped that for the most part.

[Orbert]

Agreed.  I thought The First Avenger was fine, a good origin story that had some tricky stuff to navigate and include (the Tesseract, Red Skull, Stark, etc).  But when Winter Soldier came out, everyone talked about how much of an improvement it was over The First Avenger because of all the Awesome Action!  I'm pretty sure I saw The First Avenger called "boring" by comparison.

So to me it's not so much that TFA was weak or anything, it's that it tends to be overshadowed by the later Captain America movies which have a lot more spectacle (aka Awesome Action!) to them.

[aurorablind]

I just saw Captain Marvel. It was OK.
Probably the weakest origin-movie in the MCU, but it had some really cool moments. When she finally goes full Captain Marvel it's all kinds of awesome.

I have two main problems with the movie.
The first is the tone and structure. It kind of feels like they didn't really know what movie they wanted to make, and it ended up feeling like a work in progress.
The second is the fact that they have a super talented actress in Brie Larsson, and that they chose to give her pretty much zero personality. Hopefully they will tweak it in Endgame.
Talos and Goose were the absolute highlights! I'm a bit torn on Nick Fury here though. Sam Jackson gives it all, and it is great, but he plays a completely different version of the character than we are used to. He is basically the comic relief. I know this is before the modern version of SHIELD and all, but it felt a bit wierd.
It's not a bad movie, it's just kind of forgetable.
6/10.

Stay for the mid credits. Holy shit.

[gzarruk]

Stay for the mid credits. Holy shit.

Probably my only reason to go watch the movie tbh.

[Adami]

Stay for the mid credits. Holy shit.

Probably my only reason to go watch the movie tbh.

Well that seems silly. In a day or two (if not now) you can probably just google what it is. No need in spending money to watch 20 seconds of something.


I guess I've seen a big trend (not necessary you) of people who just want to know how it all ends/ties together. The journey doesn't matter at all, just the ending. It's like suffering through a whole season of a show just to watch the season finale. It's fun to do this re-watch because I'm able to just enjoy these movies without needing to know what happens next. They're good/fine/great/meh movies on their own, I'd probably just give up if all I cared about was how it impacted The Avengers movie or the big overarching story.

[bosk1]

I don't normally say this out loud very often, but...Adami's kinda right.

[gzarruk]

Stay for the mid credits. Holy shit.

Probably my only reason to go watch the movie tbh.

Well that seems silly. In a day or two (if not now) you can probably just google what it is. No need in spending money to watch 20 seconds of something.


I guess I've seen a big trend (not necessary you) of people who just want to know how it all ends/ties together. The journey doesn't matter at all, just the ending. It's like suffering through a whole season of a show just to watch the season finale. It's fun to do this re-watch because I'm able to just enjoy these movies without needing to know what happens next. They're good/fine/great/meh movies on their own, I'd probably just give up if all I cared about was how it impacted The Avengers movie or the big overarching story.

That's not my case at all. I love the MCU and was really really excited about this film at first. I've watched all the movies as soon as they hit the theaters, watched all the tv shows... even Inhumans lol (I've watched everything except Runaways, I guess). But the recent controversy regarding this film left a sour taste in my mouth. I hate that Brie Larson is taking what seems to be a good, fun film and turning it into unhealty, extreme feministic propaganda. Don't know what I'm talking about? Just google it and you'll find plenty of videos explaining this.

Marvel isn't really helping this issue either. I supported 100% their decision to fire James Gunn because he was messing with some pretty serious stuff, though you could say they went a bit too far, considering he said those things maaaany years ago, but now they seem to be ok with all the stuff Brie is saying/doing or are just too scared to say something about it because all the SJW would inmediately jump at them. When it stops being about making a fun comicbook film for your audience to enjoy and it becomes a PC propaganda thing, some people (like me) just get very upset.

I'll still watch the movie next week, but only because I want to see how they're setting things up for Endgame and not because I'm genuinely excited about the film. Oh well...

Sorry for the rant.

[Adami]

I feel ya. Like I said, it wasn't directed really at you, but I've seen that sentiment quite often.


As far as Brie Larson goes, I have seen what she has said. And it was simply that she wanted more inclusivity. That's all. There was no extremist feminist stuff. There was a whole lot of misunderstandings, and a whole lot more of people saying she is an extremist feminist, but that's all.

[gzarruk]

I was writing more on this but after a while of typing, I just don't feel is worth getting mad at this, so I discarded that. I hope the movie does well, but also hope they put a filter on Brie's media interaction, because it doesn't look like she (just like certain famous drummer we all like to talk about here) is aware of the consequences her words/actions in mass media.

[Zantera]

Seeing Captain Marvel tonight, pretty hyped. Not expecting it to be one of the top Marvel movies, just hoping for some entertainment and some hype for Endgame.

For anyone who has seen it, was there both a mid-credits and post-credits scene?

[MinistroRaven]

For anyone who has seen it, was there both a mid-credits and post-credits scene?

yes

[bosk1]

I was writing more on this but after a while of typing, I just don't feel is worth getting mad at this, so I discarded that. I hope the movie does well, but also hope they put a filter on Brie's media interaction, because it doesn't look like she (just like certain famous drummer we all like to talk about here) is aware of the consequences her words/actions in mass media.

I hear you.  And to an extent, I agree.  I had read a few things about what she said, and I was initially pretty annoyed with that as well.  But in looking further (and I haven't seen EVERYTHING she has said), my understanding is that what she ACTUALLY said is being spun way out of context and isn't a fair representation of what she said at all. 

My limited understanding is that she was responding directly to what a few critics were saying, and that those critics were unfairly zeroing in on the "girl power!" aspect of the film and losing sight of the actual film itself.  And, look, we all know that professional critics are often clueless and say/write really dumb things and take really dumb positions that sometimes aren't reflective of the actual quality of a film.  So, she was responding to some generalizations about what critics were saying, and with the stereotype that critics are often middle-aged white guys, and she was basically saying, IN THAT SPECIFIC CONTEXT, "So a bunch of middle-aged white guys don't like the movie.  Well, guess what?  They aren't the target audience, so I don't really care."  That's it.  It wasn't really meant to be a feminist manifesto, or to be anti-male or anti-white.  It was just an inartful way of saying something that, in principle, we probably agree with: "Critics are generally out of touch and aren't the target audience for a superhero film (especially one that takes a slightly different path of creating a hero that little girls can specifically identify with), so who cares whether they like it?"

Honestly, I don't really have much of a problem with that.  Again, I haven't dug into it very deeply, and she may have said some other things, or I may be missing part of the context too.  But from my limited understanding, she's not anywhere near as off base as she is being painted by some.

[lonestar]

Ok tonight's the night, gonna be good to get some new MCU after such a long break. I'm watching Ant Man and the Wasp now, and thought I'd comment that when they go to visit Fishburne's character for the first time when he's teaching at Berkeley, he's actually teaching in the physics building Evan's hall...I'd notice that interior anywhere. I'll probably give Cap a spin as well today so I can do the whole thing before Endgame...

[axeman90210]

Got my ticket for Captain Marvel for tonight, very excited

[Orbert]

I was writing more on this but after a while of typing, I just don't feel is worth getting mad at this, so I discarded that. I hope the movie does well, but also hope they put a filter on Brie's media interaction, because it doesn't look like she (just like certain famous drummer we all like to talk about here) is aware of the consequences her words/actions in mass media.

I hear you.  And to an extent, I agree.  I had read a few things about what she said, and I was initially pretty annoyed with that as well.  But in looking further (and I haven't seen EVERYTHING she has said), my understanding is that what she ACTUALLY said is being spun way out of context and isn't a fair representation of what she said at all. 

My limited understanding is that she was responding directly to what a few critics were saying, and that those critics were unfairly zeroing in on the "girl power!" aspect of the film and losing sight of the actual film itself.  And, look, we all know that professional critics are often clueless and say/write really dumb things and take really dumb positions that sometimes aren't reflective of the actual quality of a film.  So, she was responding to some generalizations about what critics were saying, and with the stereotype that critics are often middle-aged white guys, and she was basically saying, IN THAT SPECIFIC CONTEXT, "So a bunch of middle-aged white guys don't like the movie.  Well, guess what?  They aren't the target audience, so I don't really care."  That's it.  It wasn't really meant to be a feminist manifesto, or to be anti-male or anti-white.  It was just an inartful way of saying something that, in principle, we probably agree with: "Critics are generally out of touch and aren't the target audience for a superhero film (especially one that takes a slightly different path of creating a hero that little girls can specifically identify with), so who cares whether they like it?"

Honestly, I don't really have much of a problem with that.  Again, I haven't dug into it very deeply, and she may have said some other things, or I may be missing part of the context too.  But from my limited understanding, she's not anywhere near as off base as she is being painted by some.

I haven't read everything she's said either, but I did see the comment you've quoted above, and if that's the basis for the whole "controversy" then yeah, it's way out of proportion.  I didn't have any problem with what she said even before I had the context, partly because it seemed that the context was clear, and partly because she's right anyway.

Basically, people are tired of everyone assuming middle-aged white guys are the target audience for everything, and middle-aged white guys need to get over that.  The rest of society already has.

[lonestar]

As a middle aged white guy I couldn't agree with you more Orbert.

7 hours till showtime!!

[bosk1]

As a middle aged white guy I couldn't agree with you more Orbert.

7 hours till showtime!!

Wait, you're going to see CM tonight and NOT going to the Neal Morse show at Slim's?  What's the deal?

[Samsara]

So where does everyone rank the Ben Affleck movie portrayal of Daredevil. I've become a huge DD fan in recent years, to the point that next to Batman & Robin, he's my favorite superhero. I watched the Affleck movie years ago, but need a re-watch now that I am a big fan of the character. Has anyone seen it since the DD Netflix show aired? How does it hold up?

[Samsara]

p.s. regarding the above discussion, isn't it just OK for middle-aged white guys to just not like something because...it doesn't suit their tastes/wasn't written in a perspective that would appeal to them?

I'm a middle-aged white guy. I have my reservations about Captain Marvel because of the comic book I read. It doesn't make me a bad person because I feel that way, or if I come away from the film not liking it because it isn't directed at me. It just means (if that ends up being how I feel), I simply don't like it. Isn't that OK?

When did it become a crime to be a middle aged white guy with expectations on how a comic book movie will turn out/who it targets?

[bosk1]

So where does everyone rank the Ben Affleck movie portrayal of Daredevil. I've become a huge DD fan in recent years, to the point that next to Batman & Robin, he's my favorite superhero. I watched the Affleck movie years ago, but need a re-watch now that I am a big fan of the character. Has anyone seen it since the DD Netflix show aired? How does it hold up?

Never saw it.  The character has never been one I have been interested in, so I never saw the film.  I only tried the Netflix series because it was SO highly regarded.

[Adami]

p.s. regarding the above discussion, isn't it just OK for middle-aged white guys to just not like something because...it doesn't suit their tastes/wasn't written in a perspective that would appeal to them?

I'm a middle-aged white guy. I have my reservations about Captain Marvel because of the comic book I read. It doesn't make me a bad person because I feel that way, or if I come away from the film not liking it because it isn't directed at me. It just means (if that ends up being how I feel), I simply don't like it. Isn't that OK?

When did it become a crime to be a middle aged white guy with expectations on how a comic book movie will turn out/who it targets?

No one said any of that. Just that it's ALSO aimed at other people, and if middle-aged white people can't relate to the character, that might NOT be a flaw with the character. That's all she's saying. The defensiveness is all on you guys.

[Samsara]

Adami,

I really don't appreciate you categorizing me as "defensive" with the "you guys" comment. I just think it stands to reason that a middle-age white guy, who is a comic book fan, can go into a movie and simply not like it because he is not the type of audience its looking to corral. And there's nothing wrong with that. I haven't seen it yet. Maybe I will like it. Maybe I won't. But if I don't, and the reason is because it is meant for a different age bracket, or aimed at a different gender, I shouldn't be ripped to shreds for it.

The comic I read, Captain Marvel #1 (which I got halfway through) - was clearly intended for a different audience. I thought it was terrible, and stopped reading. I'm not wrong for disliking it, nor am I likely wrong for the reason.

That's not being defensive, that's just calling it how I interpreted it.

I have no qualms with what the actress said, but that said, it shouldn't be a crime for a 40-something white guy to not like a film because it panders to a different audience. The comic book industry gets most of its money these days from middle-age people. We're the ones with the disposable income. So if they put out a movie or a product that panders to a different audience, that's fine, and I get it, but it shouldn't be wrong for someone to politely point out why he may not like it.

Personally, I hope when I see it, that I'll like it. And if I don't, I really hope people here, if I end up saying that, don't attack someone for explaining the reason why (if that indeed ends up being the reason).

[Adami]

Their defensiveness on them. Yours is on you.


You can like or not like whatever. It’s never wrong or a crime or anything.

But also no one saying that. Hence your defensiveness is on you. You’re reacting to something that was never said.

[axeman90210]

Samsara, I think the problem is that people weren't just saying that they didn't like it because they weren't the target audience (which seems to be what you're saying and I don't think anyone has a problem with that), but that there was something wrong with the movie or the movie was at fault for them not being the target audience.

[Orbert]

Also, I thought the Daredevil movie with Ben Affleck was pretty good.  I liked his take on Matt Murdock.  I've never seen the TV series.

[lonestar]

As a middle aged white guy I couldn't agree with you more Orbert.

7 hours till showtime!!

Wait, you're going to see CM tonight and NOT going to the Neal Morse show at Slim's?  What's the deal?

Eh, I just don't hold the prog boner most of the others here do for Neal.

[jammindude]

Samsara, I think the problem is that people weren't just saying that they didn't like it because they weren't the target audience (which seems to be what you're saying and I don't think anyone has a problem with that), but that there was something wrong with the movie or the movie was at fault for them not being the target audience.

This is pretty much what I was going to say.   The problem tends to be with people who cannot speak about the objective merits of a film *as a film* without letting their own "this isn't for me" glasses getting in the way. 

Off the top of my head, I started watching the 3hr Magnolia not knowing what I was getting into.   One hour into the movie, I hated every single character SO MUCH, that I almost shut it off.    Everyone in that movie is *terrible* and almost impossible to relate to.   But I stuck it out, and 2hrs in, I began to become intrigued by the tension created between certain characters.   And by the end, I was bawling my eyes out.     I still don't really personally relate to anyone in the film.   But that is an AMAZING film...  Now it's one of my top 5 all time. 

Other films don't hit me that much.   I've seen some films that I would probably not revisit (because they weren't "for me") but I can still appreciate that they were really good, films.    Birdman wasn't really relatable, and it's not something I would go out of my way to rewatch.   But wow....that is actually really an excellent film on so many levels.     Maybe that's one I might pull off the shelf when I feel like "art for art's sake".    But it's not really something that I walk away from feeling connected to. 

[axeman90210]

I have a similar conversation with people about beer styles, and the analogy I always use is seafood. I don't eat any seafood at all (aside from fried calamari, which, let's face it, doesn't really count). A chef could serve me the most perfectly prepared salmon or lobster and I wouldn't like it, and that's fine. But it wouldn't make sense for me to say the chef's terrible because of it.

[TheCountOfNYC]

My first impressions of Captain Marvel are definitely good. I loved the movie and I feel confident saying after my first viewing of the movie that she is easily one of my top five favorite MCU heroes. Confident, powerful, humble, and funny. I cannot wait to see how she fits in with the rest of the Avengers.

[lonestar]

Just got out...loved the flick. As he stated above, she's a great hero, and they did a wonderful job of setting her up to take over the MCU mantle. I'm constantly amazed at the quality difference between the MCU and DC films, the MCU is just able to do the extreme without it seeming silly and stupid like it does in DC (ie the end of Aquaman).

I'll post more thoughts later, when more have seen it, but I'll surely see it again in a week or so.

[axeman90210]

Just back from my viewing, I liked it as well. A very solid movie, not in my MCU top 5 but maybe sneaking in at the end of the top 10. The mid credits scene has me hyped for next month.

Also, Goose is the best.

[lonestar]

Goose nearly stole the show.