News:

Dream Theater Forums:  Biggest Dream Theater online community since 2007.

Main Menu

Star Trek: Thread Space 9

Started by Nick, September 14, 2016, 11:28:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.


hefdaddy42

Quote from: jingle.boy on March 02, 2023, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: Adami on March 02, 2023, 10:56:26 AM
Just watched episode 3. Terrible.


I feel like people will like this one a lot more, but it was so much of what I don't like about modern Trek. Everything is dark, gritty, no one is good, conspiracies everywhere, everyone hates everyone, there's no sense of structure or order, it's just chaos all the time.

And the fact that it's better than season 2 doesn't make it remotely good.

Just go with the flow... It's the Star Trek Multiverse of Madness.
Exactly!  That's what I said last season!

But honestly, some of the criticism seems a little harsh to me.  Is it perfect?  No.  But I seem to remember a metric ton of episodes of all of the ST shows that had, shall we say, subpar writing/characterization/plot development.  And if you say that doesn't matter, I would just say that it should be all held to the same standard.  IMO

Adami

But I don't want to hold every episode to the standard of the worst from other stuff.

Like if a band plays a few bad notes live, but the rest is good, it's fine, but when every note is bad, you don't get to say that they've never been perfect and excuse it.

Of course this is all just me. You all can watch exactly what I'm calling terrible and enjoy it and feel that it's either really good or good enough. That's just a value judgement and as long as we all agree that Stadler is wrong, then we cool.

soupytwist

The difference is old Trek by it's story per episode structure you had a fluctuating quality for example Lower Decks followed Sub Rosa!!
With the new arc format if you don't like the story you can pretty much be sure that all the episodes aren't going to be to your liking.

El Barto

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on March 03, 2023, 08:15:32 AM
Quote from: jingle.boy on March 02, 2023, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: Adami on March 02, 2023, 10:56:26 AM
Just watched episode 3. Terrible.


I feel like people will like this one a lot more, but it was so much of what I don't like about modern Trek. Everything is dark, gritty, no one is good, conspiracies everywhere, everyone hates everyone, there's no sense of structure or order, it's just chaos all the time.

And the fact that it's better than season 2 doesn't make it remotely good.

Just go with the flow... It's the Star Trek Multiverse of Madness.
Exactly!  That's what I said last season!

But honestly, some of the criticism seems a little harsh to me.  Is it perfect?  No.  But I seem to remember a metric ton of episodes of all of the ST shows that had, shall we say, subpar writing/characterization/plot development.  And if you say that doesn't matter, I would just say that it should be all held to the same standard.  IMO
For my part I'm looking at the entire product. Kind of like the tone it sets. TNG was a good show with a good atmosphere that occasionally cranked out stories about horny candles. Despite the low parts it was still a show I liked. Picard (only speaking for the first season, but that hardly matters), was a bad show, though it might well have some good parts. It's not something I enjoy watching, despite occasionally seeing something I like.

hefdaddy42


soupytwist

I really liked episode 3.  Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9.  Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists.   I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄

Adami

Quote from: soupytwist on March 03, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
I really liked episode 3.  Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9.  Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists.   I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄

And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!

Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.

Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again.  Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.

soupytwist

Quote from: Adami on March 03, 2023, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: soupytwist on March 03, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
I really liked episode 3.  Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9.  Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists.   I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄

And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!

Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.

Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again.  Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.

I was OK'ish with the Riker/Picard thing till the final line Riker said to Picard.

YtseJam


DoctorAction

I got as far as the opening episode of season 4 of Discovery but jumped about 10 minutes in. Real shame for me. I really felt they tried a lot of good and different things in it, but ultimately the overall crappiness pushed me out. I did read they were going for a lighter tone in S5 (presumably picking up on the love for SNW) so I might try the opener when S5 airs.

Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks are the only Trek for me at present. I doubt that fourth Pine-Kirk movie will ever get made, which is a real bummer.

Feels like the franchise might be due another shift in approach.

abydos

Quote from: SoundscapeMN on March 03, 2023, 06:44:19 AM
https://deadline.com/2023/03/star-trek-discovery-end-fifth-season-canceled-early-2024-paramount-plus-1235277382/
And nothing of value was lost.

QuoteLeading up to the final season, Paramount+ will honor the show's groundbreaking storytelling

It was groundbreaking alright. Not in the way they think, though. :D

jingle.boy

Picard S3E3 was ok.  There's certainly a lot - LOT - of small moments to nit-pick over - many already mentioned (thanks Adami!  :biggrin:)*.  My biggest beef was in the false tension that the Titan might actually be destroyed.  The only time I can remember tension about the ship being destroyed was in Cause and Effect.  That opening segment, when we literally saw the Ent-D blown to bits was like  :omg:

Seriously - no anyone actually believes that everyone is about to die.  Show me the entire ship getting blown up, and then I'll be like 'ok, how are they going to get out of this one?'.

*Others:
"Fire everything you've got"... four photon torpedoes.  :lol
'we'll come in behind them and they'll be a sitting duck' .... like they don't have aft shields?

soupytwist

Quote from: jingle.boy on March 04, 2023, 05:21:55 AM
Picard S3E3 was ok.  There's certainly a lot - LOT - of small moments to nit-pick over - many already mentioned (thanks Adami!  :biggrin:)*.  My biggest beef was in the false tension that the Titan might actually be destroyed.  The only time I can remember tension about the ship being destroyed was in Cause and Effect.  That opening segment, when we literally saw the Ent-D blown to bits was like  :omg:

Seriously - no anyone actually believes that everyone is about to die.  Show me the entire ship getting blown up, and then I'll be like 'ok, how are they going to get out of this one?'.

I mean that's a criticism that can be thrown at any Trek.

Adami

So brief diversion from Picard, but I want to just mention The Shuttlepod Show youtube channel one more time with the dudes who played Trip and Reed. I've been watching a lot of it, interviews with each other, Brannon Braga, Armin Shimmerman, Rick Berman, Jeffrey Combs, etc. and I'm currently watching one with Walter Keonig.

It's actually really interesting. They get a lot of blunt talk about behind the scenes on Star Trek. You get more honesty out of this than I've seen much other places, and a lot of these people are just really interesting to listen to and come off as cool normal people.

Anyway, I strongly suggest it if you're a big Trek fan, even if you're not a huge Enterprise fan.

https://www.youtube.com/@ShuttlepodShow

I'm sure I'll be back kicking and screaming about Picard soon enough.  :biggrin:

Dream Team

Quote from: jingle.boy on March 04, 2023, 05:21:55 AM
Picard S3E3 was ok.  There's certainly a lot - LOT - of small moments to nit-pick over - many already mentioned (thanks Adami!  :biggrin:)*.  My biggest beef was in the false tension that the Titan might actually be destroyed.  The only time I can remember tension about the ship being destroyed was in Cause and Effect.  That opening segment, when we literally saw the Ent-D blown to bits was like  :omg:

Seriously - no anyone actually believes that everyone is about to die.  Show me the entire ship getting blown up, and then I'll be like 'ok, how are they going to get out of this one?'.

*Others:
"Fire everything you've got"... four photon torpedoes.  :lol
'we'll come in behind them and they'll be a sitting duck' .... like they don't have aft shields?

That thing about aft shields/sensors/viewing port is just so bleeping STUPID that I yelled out loud to my wife about while we were watching.

BTW, I still hate they way they depict space battles. These ships appear to be traveling at about 20mph which of course is ludicrous.

soupytwist

#4251
Quote from: Adami on March 04, 2023, 06:49:56 AM
So brief diversion from Picard, but I want to just mention The Shuttlepod Show youtube channel one more time with the dudes who played Trip and Reed. I've been watching a lot of it, interviews with each other, Brannon Braga, Armin Shimmerman, Rick Berman, Jeffrey Combs, etc. and I'm currently watching one with Walter Keonig.

It's actually really interesting. They get a lot of blunt talk about behind the scenes on Star Trek. You get more honesty out of this than I've seen much other places, and a lot of these people are just really interesting to listen to and come off as cool normal people.

Anyway, I strongly suggest it if you're a big Trek fan, even if you're not a huge Enterprise fan.

https://www.youtube.com/@ShuttlepodShow

I'm sure I'll be back kicking and screaming about Picard soon enough.  :biggrin:

I presume when Braga came on Shuttlepod it crashed?

And while I'm sure they are great guys and all I can't help but feel the cast of enterprise interviewing Braga/Berman is similar to the iceberg interviewing the captain of the Titanic.

jingle.boy

Anyone wanna bet that whatever the organic/biological thing that's been letting out those lightning blasts is going to be a callback to something from TNG?  Cyntherians (Nth Degree) or Nagilum (Where Silence Has Lease) or some shit like that.

Phoenix87x

#4253
Well I'm late to the season 3 party. 1 and 2 were not for me, but I've thoroughly enjoying 3  :tup

abydos

The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".

soupytwist

Quote from: abydos on March 05, 2023, 08:41:36 AM
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".

I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.

abydos

I thought it is a role too, but he also mentioned before that he's been "working on myself". He disposes of her, then 2 seconds later "hires" her back.

Oh and I forgot about the Riker/Picard meltdown. That was honestly some of the worst abominations those characters have experienced by these writers until now. Lifelong friends, some of the best Starfleet has ever had, start throwing shit at each other the second there's some pressure on them.

I do find it entertaining overall, but not in a good way. What keeps me interested is how the writers will surprise me next with the new lows they can reach.

Adami

Quote from: soupytwist on March 05, 2023, 09:56:23 AM
Quote from: abydos on March 05, 2023, 08:41:36 AM
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".

I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.

You might be giving the writers too much credit. Remember in the trailer where he said he's a pacifist now? Guess maybe he was joking and he's actually just a stone cold murderer at this point? Just feels too much L. Ron's thing where he kept saying choose life while murdering everyone.

gmillerdrake

Quote from: Adami on March 05, 2023, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: soupytwist on March 05, 2023, 09:56:23 AM
Quote from: abydos on March 05, 2023, 08:41:36 AM
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".

I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.

You might be giving the writers too much credit. Remember in the trailer where he said he's a pacifist now? Guess maybe he was joking and he's actually just a stone cold murderer at this point? Just feels too much L. Ron's thing where he kept saying choose life while murdering everyone.

He is a Klingon after all. They're the 'pit bulls' of the humanoid extraterrestrial's. They'll play nice right up to the point where some menial crap triggers them and then they'll rip your face off.

ZirconBlue

Quote from: Adami on March 03, 2023, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: soupytwist on March 03, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
I really liked episode 3.  Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9.  Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists.   I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄

And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!

Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.

Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again.  Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.


At least you got an answer to the question about Jack's accent!

El Barto

Watched bits of some of the podcasts over the weekend. First and foremost, it's a trip to realize that Wesley Crusher is 50 years old now. As for his show, since it seems centered around the new ST episodes it's of little use to me. And from what I could tell it mostly just seems to be an infomercial for how great they are.

I did watch quite a bit of a different show where Wheaton was interviewed for an hour and a half and it was quite interesting. Dude sure doesn't like his folks much. That one wasn't actually a ST podcast, but has had a few different ST actors on it.

Lastly was Shuttle-pod. For one thing, if I met either of those guys on the street I wouldn't have any idea who they were, despite being quite familiar with Enterprise. My issue with their podcast was that neither of them ever struck me as particularly interested in ST to begin with. I might be wrong, but it just seems to me like they're using their resume to do a podcast. Nothing wrong with that, but it just seems odd. It'd be like Chakote and Harry Kim doing a show about VOY.

I do like the idea of ST actors interviewing other people from the show and generally talking shop, but so far none of the options are really working for me.

soupytwist

Quote from: Adami on March 05, 2023, 10:44:22 AM
Quote from: soupytwist on March 05, 2023, 09:56:23 AM
Quote from: abydos on March 05, 2023, 08:41:36 AM
The scene between Beverly and Picard was so weak, in particular her dialogue. While it "makes sense", the fact that her reasoning is somehow valid is just hilarious. And Whorf.. the "I don't do that anymore" guy, who just murdered 5 people, one of which was completely unarmed. I expect the bad writing, I just am not sure how it passes any checks and feedback from the actors (who supposedly do readings first) and higher ups. It gives me the impression that if I were a fly on the wall in those meetings, I would hear a lot of "OK, good enough, lets move on to the next scene".

I read it as Worf playing the 'Good cop' role.

You might be giving the writers too much credit. Remember in the trailer where he said he's a pacifist now? Guess maybe he was joking and he's actually just a stone cold murderer at this point? Just feels too much L. Ron's thing where he kept saying choose life while murdering everyone.

Fair enough, I didn't see the trailer.  If it is Worf saying he's gone soft after decapitating people in the precious episode, then yeah dumb writing.

Adami

Quote from: ZirconBlue on March 06, 2023, 08:40:07 AM
Quote from: Adami on March 03, 2023, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: soupytwist on March 03, 2023, 02:04:33 PM
I really liked episode 3.  Best episode of Picard, and maybe the best episode of Trek since DS9.  Some good character moments, exciting action and a couple of twists.   I'm sure they'll screw it up next week though 😄

And we're back to disagreeing! YAY!

Though there were definitely elements I liked. Very few sadly, but we also seem to look for different things.

Not 100% sure how I feel about the villain twist. Won't discuss spoilers for now, but I feel like the idea itself was fine but executed in a pretty awful way, just super rushed and without much meaning. Also don't love how Picard and Riker just so quickly turned on each other, felt forced. Though the two of them (before that) on screen is great to see and it was cool seeing Bev be a doctor again.  Even though everyone seemed so needlessly rude to her, but this is modern Trek is all about everyone being a dick to everyone.


At least you got an answer to the question about Jack's accent!

True! And as dumb as I think it is, I guess it's no different or better than why Picard has his  :lol


Adami

Quote from: El Barto on March 06, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Watched bits of some of the podcasts over the weekend. First and foremost, it's a trip to realize that Wesley Crusher is 50 years old now. As for his show, since it seems centered around the new ST episodes it's of little use to me. And from what I could tell it mostly just seems to be an infomercial for how great they are.

I did watch quite a bit of a different show where Wheaton was interviewed for an hour and a half and it was quite interesting. Dude sure doesn't like his folks much. That one wasn't actually a ST podcast, but has had a few different ST actors on it.

Lastly was Shuttle-pod. For one thing, if I met either of those guys on the street I wouldn't have any idea who they were, despite being quite familiar with Enterprise. My issue with their podcast was that neither of them ever struck me as particularly interested in ST to begin with. I might be wrong, but it just seems to me like they're using their resume to do a podcast. Nothing wrong with that, but it just seems odd. It'd be like Chakote and Harry Kim doing a show about VOY.

I do like the idea of ST actors interviewing other people from the show and generally talking shop, but so far none of the options are really working for me.

You mean the official CBS one with Will Wheaton? Yea, that's just a big commercial for the show.

As for the Enterprise guys, you're right that they're likely cashing in on the ONE thing people might know them from to get this off the ground. Can't fault them for that, but they're actually pretty good at what they do. They're still working on getting the better guests but even the little ones they have had have been interesting to see what life is like for C list actors and how Star Trek was from a behind the scenes perspective with little room for sugar coating anything. It's not super ground breaking, but I've been enjoying the hell out of it.

And I think there actually was a very short lived Voyager podcast with Kim and maybe Paris?

El Barto

Quote from: Adami on March 06, 2023, 09:12:57 AM
Quote from: El Barto on March 06, 2023, 08:54:58 AM
Watched bits of some of the podcasts over the weekend. First and foremost, it's a trip to realize that Wesley Crusher is 50 years old now. As for his show, since it seems centered around the new ST episodes it's of little use to me. And from what I could tell it mostly just seems to be an infomercial for how great they are.

I did watch quite a bit of a different show where Wheaton was interviewed for an hour and a half and it was quite interesting. Dude sure doesn't like his folks much. That one wasn't actually a ST podcast, but has had a few different ST actors on it.

Lastly was Shuttle-pod. For one thing, if I met either of those guys on the street I wouldn't have any idea who they were, despite being quite familiar with Enterprise. My issue with their podcast was that neither of them ever struck me as particularly interested in ST to begin with. I might be wrong, but it just seems to me like they're using their resume to do a podcast. Nothing wrong with that, but it just seems odd. It'd be like Chakote and Harry Kim doing a show about VOY.

I do like the idea of ST actors interviewing other people from the show and generally talking shop, but so far none of the options are really working for me.

You mean the official CBS one with Will Wheaton? Yea, that's just a big commercial for the show.

As for the Enterprise guys, you're right that they're likely cashing in on the ONE thing people might know them from to get this off the ground. Can't fault them for that, but they're actually pretty good at what they do. They're still working on getting the better guests but even the little ones they have had have been interesting to see what life is like for C list actors and how Star Trek was from a behind the scenes perspective with little room for sugar coating anything. It's not super ground breaking, but I've been enjoying the hell out of it.

And I think there actually was a very short lived Voyager podcast with Kim and maybe Paris?
The one I [partly] watched from the ENT guys was with Quark. He had a somewhat interesting background [he got into acting to get laid], but I didn't get far enough in to actually cover any ST ground. Mostly they've just had minor guys from ENT, but it looks like Combs and Dorn have both done their show, so I'll certainly give them another shot.

I think the problem is that the more interesting you could be, either as a host or a guest, the busier you probably are. You're not going to see Picard and Seven hosting their own podcast, awesome though it might be. Similarly they're not going to spend two hours on a Saturday hanging out talking shop with Trip and Malcolm. Two notable names that haven't been on their show are Archer and T'pol. One is probably pretty busy actually acting, and the other is so fucking rich she probably never leaves her own private island. I think that kind of sums up the dilemma.

And to that end, I give props to Frakes. He is busy. He was successful. He's likely got mad money. He still finds time to so these sorts of shows.

Adami

I guess it's more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.

They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he's the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.

soupytwist

Quote from: Adami on March 06, 2023, 09:53:59 AM
I guess it's more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.

They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he's the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.

I can believe that (well maybe second greatest behind Keanu obs..)

Adami

Quote from: soupytwist on March 06, 2023, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: Adami on March 06, 2023, 09:53:59 AM
I guess it's more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.

They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he's the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.

I can believe that (well maybe second greatest behind Keanu obs..)

Turns out the cast and everyone else hated the finale as well, Scott included.

But yea, it was also interesting to learn that behind the scenes for most Trek was pretty business heavy, while TNG was the only one where people were often laughing and having fun and staying close friends.

El Barto

Quote from: Adami on March 06, 2023, 12:32:17 PM
Quote from: soupytwist on March 06, 2023, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: Adami on March 06, 2023, 09:53:59 AM
I guess it's more like the lower decks of podcasts. The dude who played Silik or even Chekov. Not huge names and definitely not going to be A listers but they were fascinating to listen to just about how careers like that work and so forth.

They did say they never really got to know Jolene very much at all, that she was incredibly private and not very open. They talk about Scott like he's the greatest guy on earth but admitted they lost contact with him and are honestly probably not sure how to even reach him to be on the show.

I can believe that (well maybe second greatest behind Keanu obs..)

Turns out the cast and everyone else hated the finale as well, Scott included.

But yea, it was also interesting to learn that behind the scenes for most Trek was pretty business heavy, while TNG was the only one where people were often laughing and having fun and staying close friends.
I'd assume there was a bit of that camaraderie going on with DS9, as well. If nothing else two of them got married, and I know Odo remained very close with several of them. With the later shows I could certainly see how it'd become a little too professional to actually enjoy. Not to mention some inherent tensions going on with VOY.

I suspect the show's popularity also factors into it. TNG guys walk into a con and they're gods among men. And for the most part they've accepted their rolls in Trek lore and as heroes to nerds everywhere. That doesn't seem to be the case with VOY/ENT. In fact a whole lot of those guys don't even seem to bother with cons much. They're probably looking to distance themselves from it rather than embrace it.

I watched most of one the Shuttle Pod with Garak, and it was interesting. I think it is like you said. It's more about how careers like theirs work than the actual show itself. I had to return to work just as he started getting into DS9 territory, but there was one bit I found interesting. Robinson is very much of the opinion that the reason Garak became a recurring character is because he played him at first as seriously wanting to fuck Bashir (his words, not mine). And yet that's an angle that never showed up ever again (and certainly for the best).

I also found it interesting how many of the minor players wound up being the guys that everybody liked to hang around with. While some of the stars might have been standoffish, they talk about the minor players with great fondness. Martok, Damar, Soval, Adm. Forest, and the like seemed to have been a steady group around Trek. Might also be function that they were all up for main characters, didn't get them, but were noticeable enough to be on the hot-list for guys you wanted to bring back (which included Andrew Robinson, who initially tried out for Odo (along with Casey Biggs, I think)). 

soupytwist

I've heard Avery wasn't a lot of fun on set, not bad or anything, just keen to keep it professional.   I'm sure I've heard Dorn say there was a difference between TNG and DS9 in terms of fun too.