Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[El Barto]

I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.

[ReaperKK]

Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Yea I remember reading that when they started PIC season 2 production was going to go straight into s3.

[jammindude]

I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.

Sounds kinda like the Friday the 13th franchise…or Child’s Play…or Leprechaun.

[Adami]

I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.

I'm not sure that's how it works on streaming though. I have had whatever service they're on for over a year now. Me watching Discovery or Picard now doesn't profit them at all since most people keep their subscriptions because they forget to cancel. They need more viewers, more people subscribing. So if Picard or Discovery are bringing in new people, then that's a reason to keep them going despite reviews/quality. Or else Netflix wouldn't cancel every show after 3-4 seasons.

[gmillerdrake]

I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is.

Totally. And I can't explain my desire to continue watching it. I generally don't like continually trashing shows and if it's bad I just stop watching. But, I think it's because I really 'want' to like it....I dig all things Star Trek.....and the potential Discovery has for being a really good show is there. It certainly has the $$$ behind it because the production is top notch.

[El Barto]

I have two explanations (aside from GMD's notion that they just want to get as much from PS as they can before he kicks off). One is that there's overlap between S2 and S3. Kind of like a two-part episode. It just makes sense to shoot a lot of it together. The other is that they know people with still watch it, both because of Stewart, and because it's got some commonalities with the Star Trek universe. Here is a thread full of people who ostensibly like Star Trek. We all come here to discuss it. I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is. I doubt the people at whatever streaming network it is really care why you guys watch it. You do and that's what matters. There's a floor to PIC viewership. There will always be X number of people who will watch it no matter what. So long as revenue from X is greater than production costs Y, you keep making it. Not to mention that combining two productions lowers Y.

I'm not sure that's how it works on streaming though. I have had whatever service they're on for over a year now. Me watching Discovery or Picard now doesn't profit them at all since most people keep their subscriptions because they forget to cancel. They need more viewers, more people subscribing. So if Picard or Discovery are bringing in new people, then that's a reason to keep them going despite reviews/quality. Or else Netflix wouldn't cancel every show after 3-4 seasons.

Well, it sounds like they've profited from you not cancelling for over a year. In any case, we really have no idea how the ins and outs of producing, selling, and broadcasting/streaming a series like this work. You subscribing to the service is certainly part of it, but lots of corporate entities are paying lots of other corporate entities here. My hunch is that it's not your $5 or $10/mo that's their cash cow, though. The number of viewers is part of a balance sheet, and that number means money from other sources. I'm sure demographics fit into it. I suspect kickbacks from Netflix and cable companies do, as well. From what I gather, there's also advertizing revenue from the $5 package. Suffice it to say, viewership probably matters far more than just the direct monthly fees. 

[DoctorAction]

I haven't seen anybody here defend STD S4. From what I gather it's a total shit show. Yet I haven't seen anybody give up on it. People are still watching it just to talk about how awful it is.

Totally. And I can't explain my desire to continue watching it. I generally don't like continually trashing shows and if it's bad I just stop watching. But, I think it's because I really 'want' to like it....I dig all things Star Trek.....and the potential Discovery has for being a really good show is there. It certainly has the $$$ behind it because the production is top notch.

I was just the same on S3 but have walked away after 1 ep of series 4. I've run on out of hope and goodwill.

Watching stuff you have problems with is sometimes more intriguing than watching stuff you like. Like, "Why do I hate this?" I listened to a podcast with Ed Brubaker and he was taking about a lockdown movie club he did with mates and said initially they started watching films they all liked but it became dull as they had nothing to talk about so they started watching flawed movies instead.

[El Barto]

There's also the fact that hating something triggers an emotional response, just like loving something does. Indifference does not. This is why the heels are more important in wrestling than the faces. Either the arrogant Iranian gets bumped down a peg, or he cheats and wins, and you get your payoff either way. I suppose the chances of any ST program really wowing you are pretty low, and typically the chances of pissing you off are, as well. A shitty series increases your odds significantly.

[soupytwist]

Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?

The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks  were all generally panned as hard or harder.

[jingle.boy]

Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?

The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks  were all generally panned as hard or harder.

No kidding .... it's rather remarkable any of those lasted longer than 1 season.  Different times I suppose.

[Adami]

Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?

The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks  were all generally panned as hard or harder.

And, as far as I know, they hadn't started production on season 3 of those shows (maybe Discovery and Lower Decks, I dunno) before Season 2 was even released.

And Picard season 1 was panned PRETTY hard. And I've made very very clear in the past why comparing the quality of established IP produced in the 2010's and 2020's is not comparable to TV shows from the 1980's and 1990's.

Who knows? Maybe Picard season 2 will be amazing and if it is, I will be the first to admit I was wrong if I am. I was happy to admit I enjoyed season 2 (I think it was 2) if Discovery.

[DoctorAction]

Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?

The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks  were all generally panned as hard or harder.

My fellow Trek fans and I all accepted TNG, DS9 and Voyager at the time, a few grumbles aside. We weren't exposed to any opinions of critics at the time. We didn't use the internet for that then and it wasn't a big launch here in the UK. I worked in a video store so we got them on VHS long before syndication brought them to TV channels. If i had to describe the mainstream reaction over here it would be indifference rather than disapproval.

[soupytwist]

Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?

The first season of TNG, Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, Disco and Lowe Decks  were all generally panned as hard or harder.

My fellow Trek fans and I all accepted TNG, DS9 and Voyager at the time, a few grumbles aside. We weren't exposed to any opinions of critics at the time. We didn't use the internet for that then and it wasn't a big launch here in the UK. I worked in a video store so we got them on VHS long before syndication brought them to TV channels. If i had to describe the mainstream reaction over here it would be indifference rather than disapproval.

I can only go on what I saw, my parents were big ToS fan and after about half a dozen episodes of TNG they didnt watch it anymore.  'Chaos On The Bridge' kind off suggests some fans were turning up at the lot to boo!
Enterprise was universally panned and that was with the internet around, and holds a lower IMDb than Picard (dispict the fact Picard has been hit by the modern phenomenon of negative review bombing).

I'll hold my hands up and admit I really liked Picard, so yeah I'll defend it!

[gmillerdrake]

IMO Enterprise was great. Infinitely better than Picard and Discovery. This may sound silly but had Enterprise had a better song attached to its opening credits it’s have been that much better. It was a brutally boring song that was out of place and just put you in a bored mindset from get go.

But the series itself I think was good. Actors were really good….I never understood the hate for it.

[Adami]

Enterprise was boring for a while but definitely not insultingly bad. Picard on the other hand actively upset me.

[El Barto]

Enterprise was weak, but it wasn't awful by any means. Two major problems, though. One is that they were clearly trying to recreate the Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing, and their cast simply wasn't interesting enough to pull it off. Archer was the weak link there, I think. He was tight with Tripp and neither liked nor trusted T'Pol at the beginning. The other problem was the writing. There was great potential to deal with things and people we already knew about. Instead we get the Suliban and the temporal cold war. When they did try to incorporate known things it was heavy handed and generally bad. Factor in the terrible song, and it just couldn't get any traction out of the gate. It did get a bit better, but by then it was too little, too late.

[Polarbear]

I rewatched Enterprise recently, and it was better than I remembered!

It still had some of the worst ST episodes I've ever seen, but it also had it's definite highlights. Season 3 was a season long story arc done right! Some of the three parter episodes of S4 were also good.

[soupytwist]

Enterprise was bad, in the laziest kindoff way.  A bunch of writers who'd written 100's of Trek episodes for 15 years simply phoning it it,  or suffering from burnout and run out of ideas.  The crew had barely had any personality because the writing was so sloppy they couldn't even be arsed to define actual characters on this show.

[DoctorAction]

Enterprise fits the established Trek format for the time like a glove. It was immensely tired and lazy, imo. The Archer/Trip thing was the only merit, and don't start me on the cynical option of a buxom Vulcan, copied straight from the 7/9 playbook.

Got more interesting near the end but I can't imagine ever watching any of it again.

[Orbert]

We watched another Discovery episode.  I was pretty put off by the last one, but this one was okay.  Some answers on all the weird shit that's going on, and of course more questions.  At least there weren't any Klingons looking big and ugly and speaking slowly with huge captions in all caps.  I couldn't even tell you what happened, though.  Some more shit about the weird thing trying to communicate with Tilly.  Saru almost died.  Doug Jones is amazing.  Under a ton of prosthetics, he still acted the hell out of that scene.  Mrs. Orbert was actually in tears, and I gotta admit, I was getting there.  But I can't even remember why he almost died.

Knocked out another few DS9 episodes.  I think DS9 found the best balance between episodic storytelling and the overarcing story.

[El Barto]

Knocked out another few DS9 episodes.  I think DS9 found the best balance between episodic storytelling and the overarcing story.

Ironically, this is actually what ENT got right. Both shows remained episodic, despite massive story arcs. There were plenty of breaks from the action in DS9's last 3 seasons. "While patrolling behind the lines we came across something unusual. . ." and then you go off on standard ST sci-fi fair. ENT did the same thing: "while following a lead on the Xindi super-weapon we received a strange radio hail. . ." Just make a reference to the bigger story, and maybe change a line or two to reflect recent events, and you can make any episode you want.

[SoundscapeMN]

To me, at least Enterprise felt like actual "Star Trek" and I would sooner rewatch it over any of the Kurtzman BS.

[soupytwist]

To me, at least Enterprise felt like actual "Star Trek" and I would sooner rewatch it over any of the Kurtzman BS.

I'd use a Burger analogy.  TNG (post season2) and DS9 are prime quality burgers, juicy and tasty.  Enterprise is some cheap frozen burger, but it's still a burger - just much lesser quality. I'd class new Trek as vegan burgers, it's claiming to be a substitute and taste like you remenber a Burger to taste like - but it's not quite right, the texture is odd.   Some people will go along with it, others will want there old meat burgers back (regardless of the quality).

[HOF]

This video just got bumped into my YouTube feed:

The Klingon Bat'leth: Practical or Awkward? Smart or Stupid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrIv9EORYQc

[hefdaddy42]

I thought Picard season 1 was, well, not great, but I will stick around for season 2 because I love the character, so I feel a little invested.

Watching Discovery (or Lower Decks, or anything else that isn't an actual new [new = going forward in time] Star Trek product) just because it's Star Trek is not an option for me, since I generally do not like prequels of any kind, and with all of the bad things I have heard about it.  There are too many other good things to watch.

[DoctorAction]

I get that. I didn't like that Enterprise was a prequel, and was disappointed that Discovery and Lower Decks were too.

From this thread we can see there are many differing opinions on Trek but surely there isn't a Trek fan out there that wouldn't have preferred a show that carried on at the point around when DS9/Voyager stopped rather than any prequel.

[ZirconBlue]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.   

[hefdaddy42]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?  Either way, I don't care.  Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.

I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series. 

[gmillerdrake]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?  Either way, I don't care.  Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.

I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.

And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.

[King Postwhore]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?  Either way, I don't care.  Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.

I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.

And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.

I would think it was planned.

[ZirconBlue]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?   

Yes, it's more comedic, but it's a different ship with a different crew that has their own continuing narrative.  There's some appearances/references of other characters from that Star Trek era, most notable being Captain Riker. 

[hefdaddy42]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?   

Yes, it's more comedic, but it's a different ship with a different crew that has their own continuing narrative.  There's some appearances/references of other characters from that Star Trek era, most notable being Captain Riker.

That's part of my problem with modern Trek right there.  Which show is the "current" timeline?  That was never a problem before.  Now it's too much to keep up with (for me and my taste).

In what I refer to as "current", which is with Picard, Riker is retired, and comes out of retirement at the end as an "acting captain".  With this animated show (which wouldn't interest me in the first place), it is set in the past relative to most current (Riker is the captain of the Titan), making it also, in its own way, a prequel, so it doubly has no interest for me.

If no one else looks at it that way, that's fine, obviously.  But it's the way I look at it, and my preference would be to cancel Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and any other show that is retreading history we already have gone past, and let me know what the hell happens NEXT.

Now get off my lawn!

[gmillerdrake]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?  Either way, I don't care.  Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.

I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.

And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.

I would think it was planned.

I  honestly don't think so Joe. I think they thought "It'd be cool to show a young Spock and Cpt. Pike! Let's do it......uh oh.....we're now right in the timeframe where ALL the other OT characters should be around also. How do we get away from that? I know.....lets throw them 1000 years into the future!!!!  Were the show/story more well written I'd agree that they 'had' to have known where it was going but I don't think they did. At all.

[El Barto]

Lower Decks isn't really a prequel, is it?  It's post-TNG.


Discovery seasons 3-4 are set in the far future, so no longer a prequel, I guess.

Lower Decks is animated, and to my knowledge, isn't it mostly for laughs, and not really propelling the narrative forward?  Either way, I don't care.  Likewise, I'm not going to watch Prodigy, either.

I know that Discovery is currently in the far future, but it is still a prequel series.

And it’s only in the far future because of how poorly they planned the story and the poor execution of that story.

I would think it was planned.

I  honestly don't think so Joe. I think they thought "It'd be cool to show a young Spock and Cpt. Pike! Let's do it......uh oh.....we're now right in the timeframe where ALL the other OT characters should be around also. How do we get away from that? I know.....lets throw them 1000 years into the future!!!!  Were the show/story more well written I'd agree that they 'had' to have known where it was going but I don't think they did. At all.

And keep in mind that they already totally reversed direction once when the first 4 or so episodes didn't work the way they wanted.

[soupytwist]

Disco changed alot.  In the first season it was dark, there was gore, swearing and even a Klingon nipple.  Now it's all crying, hugging and melodrama!