Author Topic: Star Trek: Thread Space 9  (Read 270668 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2905 on: January 05, 2021, 08:53:28 AM »


I took this screencap to mark the baddest ass TNG moment yet IMO.

So I started this episode, I saw it was an 1.5 hours long, I thought "I'll do the usual 20 minutes and call it a night".
Next thing I knew; I finished it and preparing to do a second run through.

This fuckin episode.. this is some next level shit.

How much money was spent on this? The effects are fuckin marvelous by 90's standards and more than acceptable by today's standards!

The Borg! It's so cool that this happened with an alien race that we already encountered and had some idea of how they operate, they didn't just drop something new on us, monster-of-the-week style.

The Borg, what a bad ass concept for villains, they are one, they are all, utterly selfless, relentless, calculated, pragmatic and almost invincible. If they come back from this and learnt from it; I'd be very interested to know how they could be defeated again.

The Borg, so confident that you "ain't shit", that they'd let you beam aboard and just walk around their ship.. cause you ain't shit.

The Borg, is this ship their entire fleet? entire race? do they have a home planet? Can you imagine fighting.. hell, two of these ships?!

Riker was a boss, I wish the actor was better for this episode, but his lines carried the load sufficiently.
 
Towards the end when it sounded like everybody wanted to prevent the Borg ship from self-destructing because reasons; I literally went "nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope" and Riker came through for me haha

Again, this ups the level big time and I need to not to expect this often, if not ever again, for all I know I could be heading back into a Lwaxana episode again soon.
I figured you'd dig this one quite a bit. Now, transport yourself back to 1990 and imagine this as a season cliffhanger where there was 4 months between "fire" and the second part. That was a long wait. Truth be told, in the original multi-month format I thought the second half was a letdown. This is a recurring thing with TNG season cliffhangers. The first part is typically great and the second part is anti-climactic. Watching as you are may smooth that along, though. In any case, it was still excellent.

In answer to your question, that ship, if it even was the same ship from S2, is not the Borg. In 2026, when you get to Voyager, you'll find out that the Borg have taken over entire star systems. They hold a respectable chunk of the galaxy, in fact. It's just a chunk very far away from Earth. Picard will have several more encounters with them, and they'll all be very tense. They'll pop up plenty in VOY. 

And TNG is really hitting its stride at this point. You won't be disappointed.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2906 on: January 05, 2021, 09:55:41 AM »
TNG Seasons 4 - 6 are mostly great. 7 has some dodgy eps which are still fun though.

We don't talk about sub rosa....

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2907 on: January 05, 2021, 09:58:00 AM »
TNG Seasons 4 - 6 are mostly great. 7 has some dodgy eps which are still fun though.

We don't talk about sub rosa....

Oh god. Thanks for reminding me. Other than the final episode of Enterprise (which I still consider worse than anything else for different reasons) I'm not skipping anything and will have to endure Sub Rosa. Eesh.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2908 on: January 05, 2021, 10:00:40 AM »
Sidebar : the phrase " you ain't shit " makes me laugh because it literally looks like " You aren't shit " - in other words " You're great ".  ;D


So when I see pathetic instagram or twitter posts from women that say " men ain't shit " i'm like " aww, thank you ! "  :D

It's a low-end southern American thing, heavily used in cowboy movies and hiphop/rap music heh, I've been enjoying it the last couple of years  ;D
It relies on the fact that if you are "the shit", that means you're real deal.
The worst one of the sorts is when I started working in the south and someone will tell me over the radio "There ain't nothing in this tank", I'd go "So what's in it then?" and the situation would take a minute to resolve :lol


Kinda like how in the UK - Bollocks means bad yet The Dogs Bollocks means good.  ;D ;D

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2909 on: January 05, 2021, 10:01:24 AM »
TNG Seasons 4 - 6 are mostly great. 7 has some dodgy eps which are still fun though.

We don't talk about sub rosa....

Oh god. Thanks for reminding me. Other than the final episode of Enterprise (which I still consider worse than anything else for different reasons) I'm not skipping anything and will have to endure Sub Rosa. Eesh.


I watch 2x TNG every night and if it's a Klingon-centric episode I don't watch it. But I'm running out of EPs to r-watch and i'd much rather watch a Troi-centric one.

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2910 on: January 05, 2021, 10:02:12 AM »
I honestly had no idea the Klingons were so disliked. Live and learn I guess.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2911 on: January 05, 2021, 10:43:45 AM »
The Klingons are part of what makes the show for me. For DS9 The Way of the Warrior is one of the highlights. I rewatched it just the other day. I always thought Worf sucked pretty hard in TNG, but DS9 really redeemed him. While Gowron was a little too over the top cheesy for me, Kurn and Martok were both great.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2912 on: January 05, 2021, 10:46:34 AM »
I think one of my favorite treatment of Klingons, in conjunction with the gestalt of their portrayal, was in Enterprise when Archer was on trial and he had a Klingon lawyer who talked about the fact that lots of Klingons aren't warriors but that they are looked down upon. I thought this added a good amount of depth. Yes, the warrior race is the face of the empire but they have scientists and doctors and lawyers and teachers who are the foundation of the empire but are treated as lesser than.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2913 on: January 05, 2021, 10:55:13 AM »
I think one of my favorite treatment of Klingons, in conjunction with the gestalt of their portrayal, was in Enterprise when Archer was on trial and he had a Klingon lawyer who talked about the fact that lots of Klingons aren't warriors but that they are looked down upon. I thought this added a good amount of depth. Yes, the warrior race is the face of the empire but they have scientists and doctors and lawyers and teachers who are the foundation of the empire but are treated as lesser than.
Yeah, they really were assholes. Even the lawyer (Martok, IIRC) understood how fatally flawed they were, yet still defended his place in the system until Archer convinced him otherwise. Ezri was the one that really got it. The Klingons are dying, and it's about damn time. Worf was, as she pointed out, the most honorable man around, and even he was having to cover up for the hypocrisy of the Empire, for its own good. 

I can certainly understand not liking the Klingons, like I said they can be quite cartoonish, but to skip the stories doesn't make much sense to me. The underlying themes of the other races, and particularly the Klingons who got the most exposition, is a big part of what makes Star Trek work.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2914 on: January 05, 2021, 11:03:11 AM »
I always liked the Klingons, although I liked them a lot more in the TNG and after iterations than the OG versions.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2915 on: January 05, 2021, 11:21:18 AM »
I always liked the Klingons, although I liked them a lot more in the TNG and after iterations than the OG versions.
I don't know about all that. Kor was the quintessential Klingon. Aside from being the model, he was also took pride and pleasure in being amazingly ruthless. A close runner up is going to be Kang. He was icy cold and yet still capable of not being a mindless drone. A lot of the TNG Klingons seemed to be, like I said before, cartoonish. Very few of them have any depth. It's difficult to see how the Klingons could actually have an empire looking solely at the TNG version. They're just too stupid and driven by mania. The TOS Klingons seemed to have more substance. If nothing else they could at least manage the people and tech that they conquered.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2916 on: January 05, 2021, 02:11:14 PM »












I am 100% fine with the idea of detached nacelles and primary hull . TNG (was) set like 400 years in the future and DSC S3 is set almost 1,000 years after that.

It's about time we started seeing things which are completely new.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2917 on: January 06, 2021, 07:59:26 AM »
I agree, and it sure is different. Not very keen, though, tbh, except the Angelou class, which basically is a flying disc, which shows how evolved my tastes are.  ;)

Discovery as a ship has really grown on me. Wasn't sure at first.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2918 on: January 06, 2021, 08:04:27 AM »
I like the essence of federation design. There was a ton of room for creativity within that framework. Other than Voyager, it looks like they’ve largely abandoned that aesthetic, which to me it looks just more generic sci-fi and lacks that signature Star Trek feel.

Though the federation has all these new ships and thus far have just been vaguely in the background.

It seems the federation is just a bunch of ships sitting still while Discovery does literally everything.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2919 on: January 06, 2021, 08:34:55 AM »
Hey, you want to meet me on the holodeck this evening?
No, I can't. I've got to catch an 8 AM shuttle to get engineering if I want to make the 10 o'clock staff meeting on time.


That's something that's always bugged me. To make a ship seem more intimidating you simply make it larger. Yet the bigger you make it the more problematic it becomes. There's a reason why a bus won't pick me up at work and drop me off at home, or it takes two different trains and a half mile of walking to go that route. You can't have stops at every single location. Unless a full third of the ship is turboshafts, those guys are going to have the same problem.

Hey, you want to meet up on the holodeck this evening?
No, I have to pack. I've got some time off coming up so I'm taking the family to B deck for a week. They've never been, and I hear the food is awesome.


Star Trek has always been very reasonable (though that Kelvin thing might be an exception). The circumference of the 1701-D saucer is probably half a mile or so. You walk anywhere you want in 10 minutes, and a turbolift knocks it down to 3. Kirk's Enterprise might as well have been an Ohio class submarine. Take something like the Deathstar and you're looking at a 100 mile trip to get to the other side (assuming you can go straight through the center). You're not walking anywhere. Looks to me like that Angelou thing has a god damned forest growing inside. So much for reasonable scale.

Hey, you want to me up on the holodeck this evening?
No, I can't. Another maintenance team has gone missing in section 13. Probably stumbled upon another unknown tribe of savages. Still never found the last team to go missing.
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Offline FreezingPoint

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2920 on: January 06, 2021, 09:30:41 AM »
Maybe there end up being banks and banks of transporters and people just beam everywhere. Perhaps you can't turn the corner of a corridor without smacking right into someone beaming across the ship.

Of course, this would make life fun for the Chief O'Briens of the galaxy, who would have an endless life of fixing transporter malfunctions, rebuilding pattern buffers, or accidentally getting beamed onto hostile planets where he is captured and held virtual prisoner for 100 years.

And it would never, ever be misused or abused, especially if the ship were carrying families and children.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2921 on: January 06, 2021, 09:32:33 AM »
S3 disco trek has individual transporters. They can get from anywhere on the ship to anywhere on the ship in a second.
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2922 on: January 06, 2021, 09:33:34 AM »
I like the new ship designs generally!

A giant flying saucer with a rainforest inside, is the kind of weird s*it I would expect to see a 1,000 years after TOS. :lol

I wonder if the Angelou class is a giant holodeck ship. Eisenberg and Mars class ships look funky as well.

Offline FreezingPoint

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2923 on: January 06, 2021, 09:40:07 AM »
S3 disco trek has individual transporters. They can get from anywhere on the ship to anywhere on the ship in a second.

Ah, I haven't seen Discovery so I guess I'm a bit behind.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2924 on: January 07, 2021, 07:43:02 AM »
Just watched the season 3 finale of Disco and it was ok. I wasn't a fan of the show this season, I felt it was very disjointed and had too much going on for the amount of episodes released. We'll see where Disco season 4 takes us but I don't have much confidence.

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2925 on: January 07, 2021, 08:20:09 AM »
I'm like 10 minutes into the finale episode and rolling my eyes VERY hard.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2926 on: January 07, 2021, 09:18:24 AM »
Horrible with a feel good ending that doesn't make a ton of sense but does, in fact, feel good.

Still horrible.
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Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2927 on: January 07, 2021, 12:18:49 PM »
Because off life stuff happening I've only just watched the previous episode.  I'd seen some call it the Die Hard episode - but based on how the previous episode ended I wondered who was playing John McClane, thnking it would be someone on board Disco.....but of course it had to be Burnham, because everything is Burnham.  The first 20 minutes really pissed me off for that reason, but then the rest of the crew actually got to do some helping out to and it turned out to be one of the better episodes of the back half.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2928 on: January 07, 2021, 03:59:19 PM »
Yeah before Disco even began - they said it wasn't gonna feature 'the captain as the main focus every week like usual - and instead have stories about the lower decks kinda people'

The first season was all about Captain Lorca and Burnham.

The second season was all about Captain Pike - and the red angel - who was Burnham's mother - and then Burnham herself.

Season 3 has been a little better where not every single problem has been either created or solved exclusively by Michael. Thank f-k The Burn has nothing to do with her.

But Burnham shoulda just been the Captain - in Season 4 it looks like she will be anyway.

* Quick Edit - nothing against Sonnequa in any way. She's an amazing actress - but I do agree that a lot of the stories revolve around her or the super annoying Sylvia Tilly

- who has no business being in Command. She's the typical ASDGHJKL Omgggggggggggggg Twitter type girl. She never would have passed the Academy or made it to Ensign. 

We need way more stories about Owokesun. Bryce, Rhys and Detmer for a change.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2929 on: January 08, 2021, 03:03:19 AM »
Finale episode was Ok.

Random thoughts ahead:

I didn't like the kung fu, and the shenanigans in the turbo lift cgi nightmare was just laughable. :lol The stuff on the Dilithium planet was good, but had some of the worst technobabble I've ever heard in Trek. Saru was good in his role as a mentor to Su Kal.

Finally we had the rest of the Starfleet actually doing something, and I do like the futuristic ship designs.

But the ending was mostly great. I'm glad that the Burn "mystery" and The Emerald Chain storyline is behind us. I hope that they get to a comfortable groove from here on out. I think they did a good job with the world building this season, and I hope they get to tell better stories in it next season. There is a lot that they could do with this new era, and the Trill and the Vulcan episodes show that they are capable in writing great episodes.

Like Kotowboy said, rest of the cast need some spotlight as well. We need more standalone, problem of the week episodes.

I hope Saru returns next season. He is easily the best character in the show thus far. Random crackpot theory here, but would it be cool if Michael gets to keep the captains seat on Discovery, then Saru would become the captain of the next Enterprise?

This was an Ok season, and I do hope they have better stories in store for us next season.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2930 on: January 08, 2021, 03:35:44 AM »
They need a stable Captain from here on. Don't make a big deal out of Michael finally being Captain and just give it back to Saru in S4.

Discovery has never had a Captain last longer than a season so far. Saru needs his own ship I agree. [ Possibly a ship of Kelpiens ? ]..

And that finale was WAY better than the over the top S2 finale. That space battle before they went to the future was a MESS visually.


-----

But now they've finally shaken off the shackles of S1 and S2 entirely. They can literally do whatever they want now. 1,000 years free from canon. The ability to hop

anywhere in the known universe in an instant. The possibilities quite literally are limitless.

No. More. Fan. Service. Save all that for Strange New Worlds with Pike and Spock and The Enterprise.

Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2931 on: January 08, 2021, 04:43:32 AM »
The Finale was crap.  Just a series of cliffhanger moments (not remotely tense ones either) linked together by a bunch of technobabble.  Osyraa goes back to being pure cartoon after showing a little bit more in the previous episode.  The mystery of the burn is just so underwhelming, and did I miss any explaination as to what the music meant?  And what was with all those 180 camera spins!

There was a rumour that Voyager towards the end of it's run the writers would just dish out lines of dialog to the characters purely based on giving them something to do in big crew scenes.  There was a scene like this is this Finale.  Burnham has just sent Tilly a coded message (to do with Birthdays and Fireworks) and as Tilly works it out the other crew with her all take it in turns to speak - it looked awful (and it didn't help that what they were saying was pure technobabble!).

Oh God the turbo lift scenes....wow, so bad.

I've defended this show from the off, I actually saw potential in Season 1 (some of the middle episodes are very good).  Season 2 I thought was great Trek (and I appear to be the only person who liked Picard!)......but this season in particular the second half has been poor.   We also have the potential that the best character in Saru (although the writers constantly tried to make him look bad in this series) isn't going to be in it anymore, or will play a much smaller role.

Why show Reno once in the entire finale in a pointless aftermath scene...what purpose did that do? 

...and I hope they never find away to bring Gray back, because he's awful.



Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2932 on: January 08, 2021, 04:58:40 AM »

Tilly - who has no business being in Command. She's the typical ASDGHJKL Omgggggggggggggg Twitter type girl. She never would have passed the Academy or made it to Ensign. 



If Barclay can make it anyone can!  And John Harriman made it all the way to captaining the federation flagship - I'd take Tilly over him!

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2933 on: January 08, 2021, 08:25:48 AM »
I thought you said John Harrison for a moment. I was like - well - he had the Botany Bay and then stole the Uss Vengeance... Oh wait you mean Alan Ruck.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2934 on: January 08, 2021, 09:58:22 AM »
I thought you said John Harrison for a moment. I was like - well - he had the Botany Bay and then stole the Uss Vengeance... Oh wait you mean Alan Ruck.

Yeah but he'll alway be Cameron from Ferris  ;D

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2935 on: January 08, 2021, 10:00:56 AM »
I've never seen ferris Bueller. Not least cause I hate Matthew broderick. His acting is appalling.

People always cite Ferris as one of his good performances. And then can't name another.

He always sounds so flat and like he's reading his lines for the first time from a card off camera.

I'm also not keen on that John Hughes style of film - except for Home Alone...

I also really disliked The Breakfast Club.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2936 on: January 08, 2021, 10:52:56 AM »
The Finale was crap.  Just a series of cliffhanger moments (not remotely tense ones either) linked together by a bunch of technobabble.  Osyraa goes back to being pure cartoon after showing a little bit more in the previous episode.  The mystery of the burn is just so underwhelming, and did I miss any explaination as to what the music meant?  And what was with all those 180 camera spins!

There was a rumour that Voyager towards the end of it's run the writers would just dish out lines of dialog to the characters purely based on giving them something to do in big crew scenes.  There was a scene like this is this Finale.  Burnham has just sent Tilly a coded message (to do with Birthdays and Fireworks) and as Tilly works it out the other crew with her all take it in turns to speak - it looked awful (and it didn't help that what they were saying was pure technobabble!).

Oh God the turbo lift scenes....wow, so bad.

I've defended this show from the off, I actually saw potential in Season 1 (some of the middle episodes are very good).  Season 2 I thought was great Trek (and I appear to be the only person who liked Picard!)......but this season in particular the second half has been poor.   We also have the potential that the best character in Saru (although the writers constantly tried to make him look bad in this series) isn't going to be in it anymore, or will play a much smaller role.

Why show Reno once in the entire finale in a pointless aftermath scene...what purpose did that do? 

...and I hope they never find away to bring Gray back, because he's awful.




You really hit the nail on the head here. I completely agree with you. The more i think about the finale the more disappointed i become.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2937 on: January 08, 2021, 04:45:35 PM »
It sure felt like a hotch potch of a season, world building aside. Like Adami said, it DID feel good in the end but didn't deserve to.

They have SO MUCH potential with these actors, these visuals, and having managed to get into a place unshackled from canon without getting cancelled. But it's really time they made good on that. They need to slooooooow down and earn the emotional moments that they want to do so very much.

I also realised that, even though this is the end of the third season, compared to TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY they've had about half the episodes per season so it really equates to halfway through the second season of any of those shows.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2938 on: January 08, 2021, 05:33:32 PM »
I've never seen ferris Bueller. Not least cause I hate Matthew broderick. His acting is appalling.

People always cite Ferris as one of his good performances. And then can't name another.

He always sounds so flat and like he's reading his lines for the first time from a card off camera.

I'm also not keen on that John Hughes style of film - except for Home Alone...

I also really disliked The Breakfast Club.

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #2939 on: January 09, 2021, 03:28:43 AM »
Oh a GIF well that's me told...