Author Topic: Star Trek: Thread Space 9  (Read 270876 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline CrimsonSunrise

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1855 on: August 12, 2019, 04:01:34 PM »
Discovery rocks!!  The end of season 2 might go down as my favorite trek episode EVER!

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7127
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1856 on: August 13, 2019, 10:49:14 AM »
I still cannot stand any of the female characters on TNG.. nor can I stand Wesley. But I'm totally digging everybody else right now.
It's crazy to think if Wesley's character was better done, less early-90's-defined, he could have gone on and on and we could have followed his ascension through the ranks on following TV show, etc. But I read that even fans back in the early 90's hated Wesley so I don't know how the writers fucked up so bad. I mean, it's the actor, but it's not entirely the actor.
Season 3 is going super for me. 
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline ZirconBlue

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2550
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1857 on: August 13, 2019, 11:54:28 AM »
I still cannot stand any of the female characters on TNG.. nor can I stand Wesley. But I'm totally digging everybody else right now.
It's crazy to think if Wesley's character was better done, less early-90's-defined, he could have gone on and on and we could have followed his ascension through the ranks on following TV show, etc. But I read that even fans back in the early 90's hated Wesley so I don't know how the writers fucked up so bad. I mean, it's the actor, but it's not entirely the actor.
Season 3 is going super for me.


The biggest issue is that the writers wrote several Wesley-centered episodes, with the goal of only using the best one.  But then there was a writers' strike and they ended up using all the scripts, so there was much more Wesley focus than was intended, which I think really warps the audiences impression of the character.  He was supposed to have an episode focused on him, not repeatedly become the hero of the story.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1858 on: August 13, 2019, 03:46:02 PM »
What always tripped me out is that the guy who played the second most despised character in all of Star Trek makes a living now pretty much just being a really cool dude. Hanging out with Wesley would be hellish for the five minutes it took before shooting him out an airlock. Hanging out with Wil Wheaton would be a blast. Drink some beer. Play D&D. Sounds cool.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19226
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1859 on: August 13, 2019, 04:26:03 PM »
Incredibly, I don't remember hating Wesley Crusher the way most people do.  We watched the series when it first ran, and while I wasn't a teenager anymore, I was still a relatively young nerd geek loser and therefore I identified with Wesley Crusher, and I think we were supposed to.  It probably helped that I'd seen the movie Stand By Me and thought it was a great flick.  So I already respected Wil Wheaton as an actor, and really, he was one of the few actors I actually knew going into TNG (LeVar Burton was the other).

Anyway, look at Wesley the character.  Son of an officer, so lives on board a starship, and not just any starship but the actual flagship of the fleet.  Gets to rub elbows with aliens and officers alike, ends up saving the day a couple of times due to his amazing yet somehow unexpected massive IQ, and ends up becoming some kind of transcendent being and heading out to explore other dimensions of the universe with The Traveller.  That's a hell of a character arc, and a nerd geek loser's wet dream right there.

There was no bingeing in those days, no streaming or even home video, so you watched one episode per week.  The "Wesley Overkill" factor wasn't nearly as pronounced as it is when you sit and watch that entire season in a few days.

All that said, I guess I can understand people hating on Wesley.  But when I see Wesley, I just see Wil Wheaton, who seems like a cool dude.  It wasn't his fault that the writers (and writers' strike) fucked up his character arc.  I think it still worked fine.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44563
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1860 on: August 13, 2019, 04:52:35 PM »
He was annoying as shit the first 2 seasons... then again, most of the characters were.  Frankly, it's amazing it made it to S3.  I think of the first 50 episodes, like 1/2 dozen are good.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1861 on: August 13, 2019, 05:12:42 PM »
Incredibly, I don't remember hating Wesley Crusher the way most people do.  We watched the series when it first ran, and while I wasn't a teenager anymore, I was still a relatively young nerd geek loser and therefore I identified with Wesley Crusher, and I think we were supposed to.  It probably helped that I'd seen the movie Stand By Me and thought it was a great flick.  So I already respected Wil Wheaton as an actor, and really, he was one of the few actors I actually knew going into TNG (LeVar Burton was the other).
That actually makes a lot of sense. When I was watching it during its first run I was solely interested in catching a buzz, banging my girlfriend, and catching any shows that came through town. God damn Wesley made me sick.  :lol

He was annoying as shit the first 2 seasons... then again, most of the characters were.  Frankly, it's amazing it made it to S3.  I think of the first 50 episodes, like 1/2 dozen are good.
They just needed Roddenberry to die. Once Roddenberry and his attorney were shown the door it went over to Berman and Pillar and the show took off.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1862 on: August 13, 2019, 06:59:56 PM »
El Barto, your description of that that time is glorious.   

Thankfully,  I was in two worlds.  Banging and nerding at the same time. I was like Superman with the secret, nerdy identity. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Online ProfessorPeart

  • MP.com Refugee
  • Posts: 3197
  • Gender: Male
  • Lubed In The Face
beul ni teh efac = Lube In The Face / That has to be wrong.  :lol / EDIT: Oh, it's Blue! I'm an idiot.
Pardon the interruption, but I just had to run in and celebrate the majesty of Lube in the Face as highest moment in roulette history

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
  • Star Trekkin
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1864 on: August 16, 2019, 06:35:21 AM »

Anyway, look at Wesley the character.  Son of an officer, so lives on board a starship, and not just any starship but the actual flagship of the fleet.  Gets to rub elbows with aliens and officers alike, ends up saving the day a couple of times due to his amazing yet somehow unexpected massive IQ, and ends up becoming some kind of transcendent being and heading out to explore other dimensions of the universe with The Traveller.  That's a hell of a character arc, and a nerd geek loser's wet dream right there.

That's pretty much Wesley.  The only problem is seeing it written down is a totally different experience to actually watching Wesley.   He was a awful character - the main issue is they made his character a humourless know-it-all total dork (not a nerd....and yep there is a difference).

I mean look at this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YciwllLO4

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19151
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1865 on: August 16, 2019, 10:03:14 AM »

Anyway, look at Wesley the character.  Son of an officer, so lives on board a starship, and not just any starship but the actual flagship of the fleet.  Gets to rub elbows with aliens and officers alike, ends up saving the day a couple of times due to his amazing yet somehow unexpected massive IQ, and ends up becoming some kind of transcendent being and heading out to explore other dimensions of the universe with The Traveller.  That's a hell of a character arc, and a nerd geek loser's wet dream right there.

That's pretty much Wesley.  The only problem is seeing it written down is a totally different experience to actually watching Wesley.   He was a awful character - the main issue is they made his character a humourless know-it-all total dork (not a nerd....and yep there is a difference).

I mean look at this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YciwllLO4


Will Wheaton isn't/wasn't that good of an actor.....that put 'Wesley' behind right off the bat. Just miscast from get go
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Online YtseJam

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
  • Gender: Male
  • Your mom
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1866 on: August 16, 2019, 07:06:23 PM »
Wesley would never have done any of the shit he did to save the day if he was cool and was into pussy. Sounds like they played the character exactly like they intended and Hwil Hweaton did a great job playing a total nerd. Wesley deserves more credit and respect

Online Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19226
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1867 on: August 16, 2019, 09:17:32 PM »
Hear, hear!!

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7127
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1868 on: August 17, 2019, 01:06:13 PM »
Yesterday's Enterprise :clap:
I loved this episode, great plot perfectly executed. Emotionally charged and kept me engaged all the way, the stakes felt real even though I knew the story would end with the episode's end.
Not only that; but also the screen play, the dialogue was just on another level, felt like something of current TV standards, not early 90's.
The exposition eased me perfectly -and quickly- into understanding what has happened, I never felt like they were explaining the plot to me, which is the case with a lot of previous TNG episodes with any somewhat-complex concept.
Superb acting from everybody involved, including the guest stars.
I've liked her character since she showed up but this is the first time I actually care enough to learn her name, Guinan. I didn't know she wasn't human, I've totally missed it if they had mentioned that before this episode.

Quote
LAFORGE: How could Guinan know that history has been altered if she's been altered along with the rest of us?
 DATA: Perhaps her species has a perception that goes beyond linear time.
 PICARD: There are many things about her species we can't easily explain.

Pretty odd that any non-divine being would have awareness of timeline alterations, I would have called major B.S. if it wasn't for the exchange above. Somehow it was satisfactory to me, the very fact that they respected me enough to address it at all.

Quote
The war is going very badly for the Federation, far worse than is generally known. Starfleet Command believes defeat is inevitable. Within six months we may have no choice but to surrender. - Picard

I've posted here before about how I'd love to see an arc where the federations gets into and loses a major war, so ironically the alternate timeline in this episode had my wishful Star Trek story-arc. And no Deanna is a huge plus heh
OH AND:
Quote
GUINAN: Families. There should be children on this ship.
 PICARD: What? Children on the Enterprise? Guinan, we're at war.

Hate to say it but I prefer that timeline  :lol

Quote
Attention all hands. As you know, we could outrun the Klingon vessels, but we must protect the Enterprise-C until she enters the temporal rift. And we must succeed. Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise. Picard out. 

The feels man, the feels!.

Another one is the final battle, Riker gets killed and..
Quote
KLINGON SHIP [Over Comm.]: Federation ship Enterprise. Surrender and prepare to be boarded.
PICARD: That will be the day.
Then he jumps to take over operating Riker's station  :hefdaddy

The title of the episode initially fooled me into thinking we'll somehow have a run with TOS Enterprise and since I know neither Shatner nor Nimoy would have guest starred in their 1991 shape, I was prepared to see them re-casted but luckily that wasn't the case.

About Tasha, what a great way to re-visit the character! I don't know where to start, so this in this timeline the Enterprise isn't -or no longer is- an exploration ship, they're war ship. And based on that they never went to the planet with the lonely tar monster that killed Tasha, but they don't address that directly and just trust that you'll put it together, which is soooo unlike TNG so far.

Quote
TASHA: But there's something more when you look at me, isn't there? I can see it in your eyes, Guinan. We've known each other too long.
 GUINAN: We weren't meant to know each other at all. At least, that's what I sense when I look at you. Tasha, you're not supposed to be here.
 TASHA: Where am I supposed to be?
 GUINAN: Dead.
 TASHA: Do you know how?
 GUINAN: No. But I do know it was an empty death. A death without purpose.

So good, the way this scene was written.
Also.. Guinan is a coooooold mofo, too blunt there heh

Some other praises and remarks I've got about this episode but I gotta go.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29708
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1869 on: August 17, 2019, 02:07:44 PM »
One of the few episodes where Guinan really killed it as a character. She had all the good lines, was the heart of the story, and it was handled brilliantly. Most of the time her character was forgettable to me, but this and a few other episodes (Time's Arrow comes to mind) were awesome.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44563
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1870 on: August 17, 2019, 03:52:31 PM »
Top 5 episode.

Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29708
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1871 on: August 17, 2019, 05:30:45 PM »
Top 5 episode.

Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.

That's the end of that season, isn't it....at least he won't have to wait months for the finale like I did.

I can't wait to see his reaction to Inner Light, that might be some of the finest sci-fi ever done.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44563
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1872 on: August 18, 2019, 04:37:11 AM »
Top 5 episode.

Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.

That's the end of that season, isn't it....at least he won't have to wait months for the finale like I did.

Yeah, I'm virtually certain.  I got lucky that way... I didn't start watching TNG until - it must've been - S5.  Because I remember watching Best of Both Worlds in syndication.  Local station played TNG every day at 5pm, and this was before I went to university. Part 1 aired on a Friday, and I was shitting bricks all weekend waiting for part 2 on Monday.  I couldn't imagine waiting a whole fucking summer!

Challenge to Progmetty... see how long you can wait in between those two episodes.

I can't wait to see his reaction to Inner Light, that might be some of the finest sci-fi ever done.

Yeah, Top 3 episode there.  I'm waiver on whether I rate it above Darmok or not.  Of course, there's always Chain of Command.  Those two were fantastic.

Man, I wish I had the disposable time to watch the series again.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Online Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19226
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1873 on: August 18, 2019, 06:11:40 PM »
There's some backstory to Guinan.  I believe her home planet was destroyed by the Borg.  Also, she and Q have run into each other before.  Q warns Picard that she is not what she seems, and I don't remember Guinan's comeback but it was something along the same lines.

Online YtseJam

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
  • Gender: Male
  • Your mom
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1874 on: August 18, 2019, 06:24:11 PM »
Guinan Lotrimin

Online ReaperKK

  • Sweeter After Difficulty
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17718
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1875 on: August 18, 2019, 06:24:35 PM »
I gotta see if there are any books that flesh out Guinan some more, while I know it wouldn't be canon it'd be an interesting read nonetheless.

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36093
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1876 on: August 18, 2019, 06:37:14 PM »
According to one of the novels (based on a quick google search), the version of Guinan that is still in the Nexus can reach out and give her the "feelings" since it exists outside of space/time, which is how she knew reality was wrong in Yesterday's Enterprise.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1877 on: August 18, 2019, 06:40:26 PM »
Watching Enterprise season 4 right now and it's too bad it didn't continue.   

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Online ReaperKK

  • Sweeter After Difficulty
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17718
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1878 on: August 18, 2019, 06:51:25 PM »
I'm almost done with Voyager so I'm looking forward to giving Enterprise another run. I haven't watched since it was on air.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1879 on: August 18, 2019, 07:15:10 PM »
I missed the second half of season 4 when WB shifted the show to different nights on TV.  Now I get to watch what I missed and I'm enjoying it.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44563
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1880 on: August 18, 2019, 07:37:11 PM »
According to one of the novels (based on a quick google search), the version of Guinan that is still in the Nexus can reach out and give her the "feelings" since it exists outside of space/time, which is how she knew reality was wrong in Yesterday's Enterprise.

That's actually a good way to cover for her ... abilities?  from the series.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
  • Star Trekkin
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1881 on: August 19, 2019, 02:48:36 AM »
Here are 10 really great episodes of TNG that tend to get overlooked in favour of the classics (Inner Light, Measure of a Man, Yesterdays Enterprise, Darmok, Tapestry, Pegasus or Lower Decks.) or episodes that feature recurring characters (Borg, Q, Barclay, ToS guests) or two parters.   

So these are 10 episodes that feature none of the above but are really good (and rather forgotten)

- The Drumhead.
- Frame of Mind (Frakes over acting is always fun)
- Timescrape.
- Parallels.
- Conspiracy.
- The Defector.
- The Wounded.
- The Next Phase.
- A Matter of Honor.
- Starship Mine (John-Luc McClane)

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44563
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1882 on: August 19, 2019, 06:28:37 AM »
Here are 10 really great episodes of TNG that tend to get overlooked in favour of the classics (Inner Light, Measure of a Man, Yesterdays Enterprise, Darmok, Tapestry, Pegasus or Lower Decks.) or episodes that feature recurring characters (Borg, Q, Barclay, ToS guests) or two parters.   

So these are 10 episodes that feature none of the above but are really good (and rather forgotten)

- The Drumhead.
- Frame of Mind (Frakes over acting is always fun)
- Timescrape.
- Parallels.
- Conspiracy.
- The Defector.
- The Wounded.
- The Next Phase.
- A Matter of Honor.
- Starship Mine (John-Luc McClane)

Agreed on most of those.  I don't have much recollection of Conspiracy, The Drumhead or The Wounded, and wasn't overly fond of The Next Phase.  Otherwise, all excellent episodes.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Online Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19226
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1883 on: August 19, 2019, 08:14:30 AM »
Conspiracy and The Drumhead were both pretty tight.  I don't recognize The Wounded by title, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.  I thought The Next Phase was pretty cool.  Interesting premise with maybe a few rough spots in the execution, but pretty solid sci-fi, which I'm always up for.

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 19151
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1884 on: August 19, 2019, 09:06:33 AM »
Watching Enterprise season 4 right now and it's too bad it didn't continue.

I really liked 'Enterprise'  I know it catches a bunch of crap but I liked it. The only thing I really didn't like about it was that horrific theme song. I don't know who thought that was a good idea but hopefully they got canned.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1885 on: August 19, 2019, 04:19:59 PM »
Season 3 was excellent but on my local tv they bounced season 4 all over the week. Different times as well. This was before the DVR days for me.

Pissed me off big time.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1886 on: August 20, 2019, 03:55:33 PM »
Top 5 episode.

Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
Part 1, at least.  :lol

In all fairness, I watched BoBW not too long ago and Pt2 isn't bad at all. It's just fundamentally different in tone and production than Pt1. TNG always sucked at season cliffhangers because they were always written and shot six months apart. Midseason two parters were always great. Unification was one of their highlights, and I was always fond of Gambit. 

Sins of the Father is coming up, and not only do I suspect that'll get him off pretty hard, it's where a whole lot of great Star Trek begins. Up until that they'd kind of hinted at Worf being more than a lousy security chief, but SotF is where they really decide to move with it. I think Dorn was on record as saying as much. If we do this we're starting something big. You sure about this? Not only is it where Worf becomes a real character instead of "just the Klingon," it's also where the Klingons stop being generic bad guys and begin to really take on some culture of their own.

There are a few key character transition episodes. Jadzia Dax had no place in the show until she decided to eat the heart of the albino Klingon. Next thing you know she's the real deal Dax. Bashir was pretty weak until he turned out to be a mutant. He was much better as Spock than he was as plain ole Bashir. Turning point episodes for key characters, but SotF was probably the most important of them.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 2725
  • Gender: Male
  • Star Trekkin
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1887 on: August 21, 2019, 09:26:48 AM »
Top 5 episode.

Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
Part 1, at least.  :lol

In all fairness, I watched BoBW not too long ago and Pt2 isn't bad at all. It's just fundamentally different in tone and production than Pt1. TNG always sucked at season cliffhangers because they were always written and shot six months apart. Midseason two parters were always great. Unification was one of their highlights, and I was always fond of Gambit. 

Sins of the Father is coming up, and not only do I suspect that'll get him off pretty hard, it's where a whole lot of great Star Trek begins. Up until that they'd kind of hinted at Worf being more than a lousy security chief, but SotF is where they really decide to move with it. I think Dorn was on record as saying as much. If we do this we're starting something big. You sure about this? Not only is it where Worf becomes a real character instead of "just the Klingon," it's also where the Klingons stop being generic bad guys and begin to really take on some culture of their own.

There are a few key character transition episodes. Jadzia Dax had no place in the show until she decided to eat the heart of the albino Klingon. Next thing you know she's the real deal Dax. Bashir was pretty weak until he turned out to be a mutant. He was much better as Spock than he was as plain ole Bashir. Turning point episodes for key characters, but SotF was probably the most important of them.

It's ironic that Best of Both Worlds hinted at character development with Riker thinking he'd become stale as second in command.   That's never followed up on again.....in fact Riker had had his two 'major' character arcs before this - the beard and the trombone :)

It's odd that Worf is really the only real character on TNG that got any real development,  depict all the Data wants to become human episodes he never really grows as a character at all.   Ro Laren gets more of an arc than the main characters depict only being in about 6 episodes!

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1888 on: August 21, 2019, 12:37:36 PM »
Top 5 episode.

Can't wait until you get to Best of Both Worlds.
Part 1, at least.  :lol

In all fairness, I watched BoBW not too long ago and Pt2 isn't bad at all. It's just fundamentally different in tone and production than Pt1. TNG always sucked at season cliffhangers because they were always written and shot six months apart. Midseason two parters were always great. Unification was one of their highlights, and I was always fond of Gambit. 

Sins of the Father is coming up, and not only do I suspect that'll get him off pretty hard, it's where a whole lot of great Star Trek begins. Up until that they'd kind of hinted at Worf being more than a lousy security chief, but SotF is where they really decide to move with it. I think Dorn was on record as saying as much. If we do this we're starting something big. You sure about this? Not only is it where Worf becomes a real character instead of "just the Klingon," it's also where the Klingons stop being generic bad guys and begin to really take on some culture of their own.

There are a few key character transition episodes. Jadzia Dax had no place in the show until she decided to eat the heart of the albino Klingon. Next thing you know she's the real deal Dax. Bashir was pretty weak until he turned out to be a mutant. He was much better as Spock than he was as plain ole Bashir. Turning point episodes for key characters, but SotF was probably the most important of them.

It's ironic that Best of Both Worlds hinted at character development with Riker thinking he'd become stale as second in command.   That's never followed up on again.....in fact Riker had had his two 'major' character arcs before this - the beard and the trombone :)
Yeah, that's about right. He had some episodes that gave him a chance to be something other than a yes man, I just watched Pegasus the other day, but as a character he never evolved.

At the same time, despite stagnating Riker was really the only one I found likeable. He was the only human that was still human. The rest were all lifeless, soulless aliens.

One of the things I liked about DS9 was that the best characters were the secondary guys, partly because they were able to grow beyond their original concept. The main crew was pretty bland, but then you've got Dukat, Garak, Kai Ratched, the various Weyouns, and later Damar, who were all excellent. Each one of them had more development than any of the regulars. Hell, Nog grew more than the two Siskos combined.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Online Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 36093
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1889 on: August 21, 2019, 04:55:06 PM »
I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.

The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.

The others did to varying degrees.
fanticide.bandcamp.com