Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[ReaperKK]

Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.

[Samsara]

Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.

Thanks for that feedback. I'll still buy it when it comes out, but its good to know what to expect.

[ReaperKK]

It's really frustrating because if Ira reeled himself it definitely could've been great. I would've loved if they went in a sort of chronological order and go through the seasons, maybe talk about how Nana refused to fall in love with Dukat as the writers originally intended, or go over how Mike Berman is a douche, although I don't think he would've done the doc if they did.

[abydos]

When I saw his beard I had a bad feeling about him

[SoundscapeMN]

well if I had my druthers, I would have wanted a large portion of the Babylon 5/J Michael Stracyznski controversy addressed.

But I'm a massive fanboy, so I enjoyed quite a lot of it.

Not enough with Avery Brooks though.

[Samsara]

If anyone needs to rebuy, like me, ds9 on dvd, or needs/wants to buy the series for the first time. The entire series can be bought for 59.99, new, on amazon. it had been sitting at 81.60 forever,  but today  dropped to 59.99, so i jumped on it. just fyi.

i also pre ordered the documentary.

[Orbert]

The wife and I were flipping channels and caught the only TOS two-parter, "The Menagerie", which was built around the unaired pilot "The Cage".

I kept thinking it was better than I remembered.  Yeah, the dialogue was just as cheesy, and the idea of a futuristic pseudo-military organization having a death penalty on the books was silly, and I knew the plot backwards and forwards and even a lot of the dialogue, but somehow it was quite engaging, more than I thought it would be, especially since we've seen all the old episodes at least a dozen times, years ago.

Then that's what I realized was so amazing about it.  It looked incredible.  We used to watch Star Trek when we were kids, on the old black and white TV in the living room, not the nice one that Mom and Dad watched in the family room.  I couldn't remember the last time I sat and actually watched a TOS episode in color.  But not only that, on an HDTV.  Also, I'm pretty sure what we were watching was the "enhanced" version (I'm not sure of the term) with the updated graphics and effects.  I didn't remember the insignia on their uniforms being shiny.  The planet viewed on screen looked great.  Everything was awesome.

I remember reading about them upgrading the graphics and effects and stuff and I figured it would be obvious and hokey, but it wasn't.  I can't say I remember the original look at all (since most viewings were on the old black and white) but this had to be the updated stuff, yet it was integrated and didn't give itself away.  It just plain looked great.

I'm still probably not going to buy the series in HD or anything, but now I feel a lot more understanding of those who would.  This was the best I've ever seen TOS look.

[El Barto]

The wife and I were flipping channels and caught the only TOS two-parter, "The Menagerie", which was built around the unaired pilot "The Cage".

I kept thinking it was better than I remembered.  Yeah, the dialogue was just as cheesy, and the idea of a futuristic pseudo-military organization having a death penalty on the books was silly, and I knew the plot backwards and forwards and even a lot of the dialogue, but somehow it was quite engaging, more than I thought it would be, especially since we've seen all the old episodes at least a dozen times, years ago.

Then that's what I realized was so amazing about it.  It looked incredible.  We used to watch Star Trek when we were kids, on the old black and white TV in the living room, not the nice one that Mom and Dad watched in the family room.  I couldn't remember the last time I sat and actually watched a TOS episode in color.  But not only that, on an HDTV.  Also, I'm pretty sure what we were watching was the "enhanced" version (I'm not sure of the term) with the updated graphics and effects.  I didn't remember the insignia on their uniforms being shiny.  The planet viewed on screen looked great.  Everything was awesome.

I remember reading about them upgrading the graphics and effects and stuff and I figured it would be obvious and hokey, but it wasn't.  I can't say I remember the original look at all (since most viewings were on the old black and white) but this had to be the updated stuff, yet it was integrated and didn't give itself away.  It just plain looked great.

I'm still probably not going to buy the series in HD or anything, but now I feel a lot more understanding of those who would.  This was the best I've ever seen TOS look.

Menagerie is a great episode. It's one I always watch when I get a hankering to revisit TOS (and that was about two weeks ago). It was an excellent way to reuse an existing, unrelated episode and they did it very well.

I suspect you'd have a hard time finding the original versions nowadays. The remasters are probably the only ones still out in the wild. Most of the time I have no problem with the remasters. It's generally just phasers, explosions, and planets that look different. They changed some of the alien ships when it had originally just been a reuse from an earlier episode. And the colors look great. On a few occasions they have really altered the feel of the show, though. Battle sequences now look like battle sequences, and I'm not real cool with that. These are battleships, not F-16s. The Ultimate Computer was the worst example. The cheapness of the original actually provided a good deal of the tension.

Another big improvement in the remasters is that they restored the syndication cuts. In squeezing in more commercials they occasionally cut out bits that were important to the show. Those are restored now. In LtBYLB they had reduced the self destruct sequence down to like 30 seconds or something. That was the dramatic apex of the show, and it needed the two minutes to get there.

[Adami]

Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.

I largely liked it, but yea it left a lot to be desired.

It was neat to see everyone back and get interviewed. The writers room thing was pretty cool. There was a little bit of insight, but not a ton. I wish someone else had directed it who didn't have such a strong agenda with the documentary. Also the ending was priceless.

Overall I enjoyed it as a reminder of why I like DS9 so much and as a way to feel nostalgic. It's not a great documentary though.

[Samsara]

There is a teaser trailer up for PICARD at Bleeding Cool.

It was pretty sweet. Short, but certainly got my attention.

[Samsara]

Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.

I largely liked it, but yea it left a lot to be desired.

It was neat to see everyone back and get interviewed. The writers room thing was pretty cool. There was a little bit of insight, but not a ton. I wish someone else had directed it who didn't have such a strong agenda with the documentary. Also the ending was priceless.

Overall I enjoyed it as a reminder of why I like DS9 so much and as a way to feel nostalgic. It's not a great documentary though.

I don't want a lot of it spoiled, but can you expand a bit on the "agenda" comment. I'm a huge TNG and DS9 fan. But I don't really partake in any of the online fandom or community info. I just keep my fandom on the shows, and generally ignore everything else. But I'm curious as to what you mean.

[Adami]

Speaking of DS9 I went and saw "What we left behind" and it was ok, at first I came out liking it but the more I think about it the more of a mess it is. There is no real narrative and Ira Behr loved talking about himself in the cast interviews.

I largely liked it, but yea it left a lot to be desired.

It was neat to see everyone back and get interviewed. The writers room thing was pretty cool. There was a little bit of insight, but not a ton. I wish someone else had directed it who didn't have such a strong agenda with the documentary. Also the ending was priceless.

Overall I enjoyed it as a reminder of why I like DS9 so much and as a way to feel nostalgic. It's not a great documentary though.

I don't want a lot of it spoiled, but can you expand a bit on the "agenda" comment. I'm a huge TNG and DS9 fan. But I don't really partake in any of the online fandom or community info. I just keep my fandom on the shows, and generally ignore everything else. But I'm curious as to what you mean.

It's hard to define, but it's definitely a celebration of the show and of his personal struggles with the show and trying his best to make him seem like the hero of the show. He did acknowledge one basic fault of the show but blamed everyone else. It's not to the point where it ruined anything for me, but it's almost like a fan-made thing, you know? It could have been done better, more in depth, more about the experience rather than just celebrating the show, which was lovely in and of itself.

[ReaperKK]

Adam I hit it pretty well but I would’ve enjoyed less Ira and more of the cast. DS9 is great in the sense that every cast member is really interesting to watch, I could watch them talk for hours. As I said earlier I think there were too many things the documentary was trying to do; recap the show, interview cast, talk about struggles, talk about a hypothetical 8th season, too much to cover in too short of time.

[Adami]

Adam I

I hate you.

[Samsara]

Did it explain why Avery Brooks did not take part? His footage was recorded from way in the past, but he declined to be interviewed for the documentary, right?

[jingle.boy]

There is a teaser trailer up for PICARD at Bleeding Cool.

It was pretty sweet. Short, but certainly got my attention.

Official now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-GJNebJj0

Color me excited.

[ReaperKK]

Adam I

I hate you.

sorry I was on my phone and autocorrect got me.

[Adami]

Did it explain why Avery Brooks did not take part? His footage was recorded from way in the past, but he declined to be interviewed for the documentary, right?

I didn't see anything about that. This was shot over (I think) like 4-6 years. So multiple people were interviewed in like 2015 and also in 2018 etc. But there was a definite lack of Brooks through much of it.


Honestly, The Captains is a much better documentary if you want more Brooks.

[El Barto]

Did it explain why Avery Brooks did not take part? His footage was recorded from way in the past, but he declined to be interviewed for the documentary, right?

I didn't see anything about that. This was shot over (I think) like 4-6 years. So multiple people were interviewed in like 2015 and also in 2018 etc. But there was a definite lack of Brooks through much of it.


Honestly, The Captains is a much better documentary if you want more Brooks.

The Captains was just about enough Brooks for me. I don't need anymore.

[SoundscapeMN]

yeah made a comment about the lack of Avery Brooks in a review I finally posted the other day on What We Left Behind.

The extras were shared in an article that doesn't necessarily suggest more with Brooks unfortunately.

August 6th is the release date

https://www.iconvsicon.com/2019/05/28/critically-acclaimed-star-trek-documentary-what-we-left-behind-looking-back-at-star-trek-deep-space-nine-to-hit-blu-ray-in-august/

[Samsara]

yeah made a comment about the lack of Avery Brooks in a review I finally posted the other day on What We Left Behind.

The extras were shared in an article that doesn't necessarily suggest more with Brooks unfortunately.

August 6th is the release date

https://www.iconvsicon.com/2019/05/28/critically-acclaimed-star-trek-documentary-what-we-left-behind-looking-back-at-star-trek-deep-space-nine-to-hit-blu-ray-in-august/

Great blog. Thanks for sharing. It's funny, I grew up liking TNG, but wasn't all that fond of TOS episodes (I liked the feature films though). When DS9 came out, I was just graduating high school, and as things got moving, I was in college. I watched DS9, but didn't really have an affinity for it. I was one of those guys that blended with most crowds. I could hang with the jocks, because I loved sports and I was a pretty good athlete (basketball, tennis, baseball), but then I was also a nerd who loved box scores, and sci-fi/fantasy stuff (Dragonlance, Star Wars, Trek, Batman of course, lol). And then finally, I was also a big metal guy, so I had that sect of friends. It was an interesting time for sure. So, I say all that to say, I never gave DS9 its due, because I was spread thin during the years it aired. I liked it, but wasn't as devoted to it as I was TNG. That changed following me graduating from law school a few years later. The summer after I graduated, I wasn't working for a six-month period, and so I watched the first season, and was immediately hooked. In fact, I loved it so much, I sold all of my TNG seasons (I had purchased all those 100 dollar box sets), to afford the DS9 ones (the original ones). Then I watched the rest of the series religiously, probably four or five episodes a day. TNG was mature, particularly in seasons three through seven, but DS9 just made it, as you said in your blog, more relatable, more down to earth and real human issues. It was the Trek for a more mature, politically-oriented audience. I became an uber fan real quick, and have remained one ever since.

As I got older and had more disposable income, I purchased a lot of carded action figures of the show (I have probably around 30 now, the first run of nine, and then a couple dozen from the sets that followed), plus the DS9 station. In fact, I'm still collecting here and there (just bought some more characters in a lot on eBay). There was just something really different and special about DS9, that frankly, no other Trek show or movie since has captured. I read the whole "continuation" of the series in the books, but after the first five or six books, I felt like it was just getting too long in the tooth and too many personnel changes. It was good, but not AS good as the show, of course.

So suffice it to say, I am completely excited to watch the documentary. I had plans the night of the special screening so I unfortunately had to miss it. But I have pre-ordered the Blu-ray, and I'm currently re-watching the entire series on Netflix for the first time since 2003. I'm at the end of Season One right now. I even re-bought (I had sold my original DVDs probably about 12 or 13 years ago, figuring it would come out on Blu-ray, which it never did) the series on DVD, as Amazon had a special on the box set last week (see my post above).

But everything about the show is just...special. From Sisko's command style and history, to those relationships between the other regular characters, they all seem really REAL. Instead of a utopian future and traveling the stars, which the other Treks had, DS9 was more like - here is real life, taking place hundreds of years from now on a space station. Such a shame Season 8 never came to fruition. But I'm glad that you mentioned the writers talk about what they would have done in the documentary. I can't wait to see it.

Again, thanks for the blog. DS9 is just such a special show, and I'm glad others also give it its proper credit. 

[El Barto]

That the writers talk about how the 8th season would have played out is interesting, but you really can't work it like that. Season 7 was based around being the final season, and it is what it is. I suspect the entire 7th season was written with that in mind. They were actually pretty fortunate to know what the time frame was so they could take 25 episodes to wrap everything up. A lot of shows don't get to do that.

With that in mind, I wish there had been two seasons with Ezri. That was a new character they really could have done a lot with, but they had to blow right on through that which made her so interesting. A season to learn how to be a Dax followed by a season of really being Dax would have been a lot better. Just adding an 8th season wouldn't have satisfied that.

[Adami]

That the writers talk about how the 8th season would have played out is interesting, but you really can't work it like that. Season 7 was based around being the final season, and it is what it is. I suspect the entire 7th season was written with that in mind. They were actually pretty fortunate to know what the time frame was so they could take 25 episodes to wrap everything up. A lot of shows don't get to do that.

With that in mind, I wish there had been two seasons with Ezri. That was a new character they really could have done a lot with, but they had to blow right on through that which made her so interesting. A season to learn how to be a Dax followed by a season of really being Dax would have been a lot better. Just adding an 8th season wouldn't have satisfied that.

and they didn't pitch a full 8th season. They wrote the outline for the first episode, which would have been 20 years after season 7, so more a revival than an 8th season. It was surprisingly decent, as brief and basic as it was (outline, no script or anything).

[Samsara]

That the writers talk about how the 8th season would have played out is interesting, but you really can't work it like that. Season 7 was based around being the final season, and it is what it is. I suspect the entire 7th season was written with that in mind. They were actually pretty fortunate to know what the time frame was so they could take 25 episodes to wrap everything up. A lot of shows don't get to do that.

With that in mind, I wish there had been two seasons with Ezri. That was a new character they really could have done a lot with, but they had to blow right on through that which made her so interesting. A season to learn how to be a Dax followed by a season of really being Dax would have been a lot better. Just adding an 8th season wouldn't have satisfied that.

and they didn't pitch a full 8th season. They wrote the outline for the first episode, which would have been 20 years after season 7, so more a revival than an 8th season. It was surprisingly decent, as brief and basic as it was (outline, no script or anything).

Oh, OK, so more like picking up where things stand now (sort of like how Picard is going to). Interesting. Looking forward to watching it.

[Adami]

Exactly. It wasn't brilliant, it was mostly i think 2 writers going back and fourth while the other 3 mostly just sat there and chimed in on occasion.

So while I was excited to see Ronald Moore contribute, we mostly got a story from Ira.

It was fun and a little interesting. They also had illustrations going on as they described the plot, so you could visualize it a bit.

[SoundscapeMN]

yeah made a comment about the lack of Avery Brooks in a review I finally posted the other day on What We Left Behind.

The extras were shared in an article that doesn't necessarily suggest more with Brooks unfortunately.

August 6th is the release date

https://www.iconvsicon.com/2019/05/28/critically-acclaimed-star-trek-documentary-what-we-left-behind-looking-back-at-star-trek-deep-space-nine-to-hit-blu-ray-in-august/

Great blog. Thanks for sharing. It's funny, I grew up liking TNG, but wasn't all that fond of TOS episodes (I liked the feature films though). When DS9 came out, I was just graduating high school, and as things got moving, I was in college. I watched DS9, but didn't really have an affinity for it. I was one of those guys that blended with most crowds. I could hang with the jocks, because I loved sports and I was a pretty good athlete (basketball, tennis, baseball), but then I was also a nerd who loved box scores, and sci-fi/fantasy stuff (Dragonlance, Star Wars, Trek, Batman of course, lol). And then finally, I was also a big metal guy, so I had that sect of friends. It was an interesting time for sure. So, I say all that to say, I never gave DS9 its due, because I was spread thin during the years it aired. I liked it, but wasn't as devoted to it as I was TNG. That changed following me graduating from law school a few years later. The summer after I graduated, I wasn't working for a six-month period, and so I watched the first season, and was immediately hooked. In fact, I loved it so much, I sold all of my TNG seasons (I had purchased all those 100 dollar box sets), to afford the DS9 ones (the original ones). Then I watched the rest of the series religiously, probably four or five episodes a day. TNG was mature, particularly in seasons three through seven, but DS9 just made it, as you said in your blog, more relatable, more down to earth and real human issues. It was the Trek for a more mature, politically-oriented audience. I became an uber fan real quick, and have remained one ever since.

As I got older and had more disposable income, I purchased a lot of carded action figures of the show (I have probably around 30 now, the first run of nine, and then a couple dozen from the sets that followed), plus the DS9 station. In fact, I'm still collecting here and there (just bought some more characters in a lot on eBay). There was just something really different and special about DS9, that frankly, no other Trek show or movie since has captured. I read the whole "continuation" of the series in the books, but after the first five or six books, I felt like it was just getting too long in the tooth and too many personnel changes. It was good, but not AS good as the show, of course.

So suffice it to say, I am completely excited to watch the documentary. I had plans the night of the special screening so I unfortunately had to miss it. But I have pre-ordered the Blu-ray, and I'm currently re-watching the entire series on Netflix for the first time since 2003. I'm at the end of Season One right now. I even re-bought (I had sold my original DVDs probably about 12 or 13 years ago, figuring it would come out on Blu-ray, which it never did) the series on DVD, as Amazon had a special on the box set last week (see my post above).

But everything about the show is just...special. From Sisko's command style and history, to those relationships between the other regular characters, they all seem really REAL. Instead of a utopian future and traveling the stars, which the other Treks had, DS9 was more like - here is real life, taking place hundreds of years from now on a space station. Such a shame Season 8 never came to fruition. But I'm glad that you mentioned the writers talk about what they would have done in the documentary. I can't wait to see it.

Again, thanks for the blog. DS9 is just such a special show, and I'm glad others also give it its proper credit. 

oh hey thanks for the kind words. I think I always felt the fans level of passion with DS9 seemed more grounded and little-engine-that-could/an-underdog. Maybe more so when it aired (the Doc goes on a lot about this), but also since then.

You definitely invested more than I did as I never got so into it to purchasing the Action Figures or other things. I bought 1 or 2 of the Fan-Fiction novels but never got around to reading them.

I picked up the DVD Boxed set Sealed on Ebay for like $125 a few years ago, but have not even touched it, lol.

I went Las Vegas in 1998 to see, right after the opening of the Star Trek Experience, saw the Promenade, and had lunch at Quarks.

I Bought The Rules of Acquisition book.

But even the Cons I kind of limited myself to per the money. Terry Farrell was at the Local Comic-Con in Minneapolis a year or 2 ago and I wanted to go, but passed. I think she wanted like $75 to sign, which of course does not include admittance to the Con, and any/other expenses.

But I guess I saw DS9  kind of like the Dream Theater or something of Trek and Scifi. It has respect, but never was seen by the Mass Trek audience as the go-to. But for myself and maybe someone like you, it won us over so much so, it kind of transcended Trek.

I mean it's odd how crossing culture/social groups seems odd with DS9 and Star Trek. The whole stereotype of Scifi Nerds not liking Sports, and Sports/Fantasy Sports addicts finding Scifi and Star Trek to be for losers; I suppose I felt I naively believed, and then came to wonder why I ever felt that way.

Almost like a food you used to hate, and then one day you eat it and really like it like Avocado for me (or Green Eggs and Ham? lol).

I have to admit, the Babylon 5 thing always sticks out to me, and while I have enjoyed B5 and seen a large percentage of the show and some of the movies, I have never binged or even just self-disciplined myself to grasp onto it like I wish. Because there are hordes of fans who feel B5 is the superior show/story.

Also the shots The Big Bang Theory took at B5 always bugged me (and I would love to see someone interview the TBBT writers about that).

[ReaperKK]

What was the Star Trek experience like in Vegas. I always wanted to go but by the time I actually got to Vegas it was already closed down.

[Samsara]

What was the Star Trek experience like in Vegas. I always wanted to go but by the time I actually got to Vegas it was already closed down.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I was there as well. To be honest, I have a couple of pictures, but I can't remember a ton. I think I went in 2004-ish.

SsMN - I never bothered with Babylon 5. I mean, I know there are similarities, and that it was generally thought of as a great show, but I fell in love with DS9, and didn't really want to focus on any perceived "controversy" ya know?

As for collecting and such, always been a thing of mine (toy collecting). I don't display the DS9 stuff, as my home office/man cave is devoted to Batman (it's literally a Bat Cave), but I probably have two storage bins (not the gigantic rollaway ones) of figures (which I checked last night, and it is about 30) and the station (all carded/boxed). I also have the DS9 Companion, Technical Manual, and The Making of DS9 books. That's the extent of it (in addition to the series on DVD). I have more for Next Gen. But again, everything is stored, except for the books, which are in my bookcases. Other collections include Daredevil, Robotech, Star Wars, and Transformers. At some point, the Mrs. (who is also a collector of other stuff, but not as much sci-fi) will probably want me to thin it out significantly, but I'm pretty conscious of what I have, and I pare it down a little each year. Really wish I was independently wealthy and could afford a second room in the house (in addition to my office/BatCave) to put up everything else. 

Anyway, that got long in the tooth, as I am prone to do.    DS9 is great, and by far, my favorite Trek. About 1/3 of the way through season 2 on my rewatch. Just finished "Melora" last night.I think I fell asleep through the climax of the episode though. ha ha.

[ProfessorPeart]

Got my Backer copy of the DS9 doc on Blu-ray. Just finished watching it. I love this show, I love Garak. How could I never have seen that he was gay? It makes so much sense.

Coolest part was seeing my name in the credits. Man, I just love this show.

Now come on, hi-def this thing up like TOS and TNG. It deserves it.

[lonestar]

Ok finally took the dive to spend the whopping 6 bucks a month. Picard inspired me, and boredom made me make the leap early.


I'm on ep6 of Discovery now, and I'm really digging this show. I like that they jumped right into a continuous storyline feel, keeping me in it fully. Love the characters, especially the lead Burnham. Very....entertained...at yet another iteration of the Klingons, curious to see where they go with this whole thing, especially the Spore Drive. That leaves pretty much any avenue open.

[gmillerdrake]

Ok finally took the dive to spend the whopping 6 bucks a month. Picard inspired me, and boredom made me make the leap early.


I'm on ep6 of Discovery now, and I'm really digging this show. I like that they jumped right into a continuous storyline feel, keeping me in it fully. Love the characters, especially the lead Burnham. Very....entertained...at yet another iteration of the Klingons, curious to see where they go with this whole thing, especially the Spore Drive. That leaves pretty much any avenue open.

I like ‘Discovery’ and think S1 was good and S2 was even better.

[ProfessorPeart]

Just finished season 2 of Discovery. Wow! That was some season. Absolutely loved how they tied up Pike with The Cage and The Menagerie. That was truly satisfying to watch.

Next season will be quite interesting.

[lonestar]

I'm about half way through the alternate universe storyline(eo12 I think) , and this is just fantastic Trek. Loving everything they're doing with it.

[gmillerdrake]

I'm about half way through the alternate universe storyline(eo12 I think) , and this is just fantastic Trek. Loving everything they're doing with it.

    I quite enjoy the series. There are some folks who really don’t care for it but I dig it. If you’re liking S1 I have a hunch you’ll really dig S2.

[lonestar]

Ok, just finished Discovery.


Fucking talk about leaving me hanging. I reread through some posts, and I fully think they'll follow Discovery and it's crew, they took the core crew with them and left all teh "secondary" charecters in the present.

As to the season, I loved it. Enjoyed every aspect of it. Just cheesy enough to still be Trek, yet epic enough to fulfill all my nerd needs. Great stuff.