Star Trek: Thread Space 9

Started by Nick, September 14, 2016, 10:28:53 AM

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Adami

Quote from: soupytwist on March 24, 2023, 02:37:42 AM
Episode 6 was good, probably a little weaker than the last few, but still enjoyable.  A lot to unpack though, but no spoilers till more have watched it.
Prediction : Adami will have a fuckton of issues with this episode and get full mouth of shards of glass!

So pumped!

Quote from: jammindude on March 23, 2023, 08:51:48 PM
Focus on this fact and you'll have a lot more fun.

It's obscene how much better this is than Nemesis.  If this is to be the TNG crew's final stand, I'm just so happy that they gave them something that is downright Shakespeare compared to that rancid turd.

I'm glad this helps you. But this doesn't help me at all. I just want it to be good. Not better than something worse.
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jammindude

Quote from: jammindude on March 24, 2023, 06:22:17 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on March 23, 2023, 06:52:32 PM
Amanda Plummer deserves a Razzie for her ridiculous first-year-of-drama-club overacting.

Any moment now I expect Michael Jeter to enter the scene in full drag and carrying balloons.

https://youtu.be/rmfGLfWqlzA


For the record, if anyone ever made a deep fake of this guy sneaking aboard the Shrike to sing this to Vadic (who, in case you didn't catch it, played Lydia in the original clip) it would be the greatest and most popular deep fake in all of fandom.

jammindude

Also for the record, I kinda like Amanda's "borderline psychotic" approach. It's got an almost "Cheshire Cat" thing going on.  It's maybe a bit melodramatic, but people who suffer from deep psychosis usually are.

Adami

Eh. I am so torn on this episode. I'll try avoid spoilers.

I feel like this was the pitch for the episode...

Writer 1: Hey! I have an idea for the next episode of Picard!
Writer 2: Brilliant! What's your idea?
Writer 1: NOSTALGIA!
Writer 2: I love nostalgia! Great start, what else?
Writer 1: What do you mean?
Writer 2: Well, it can't JUST be nostalgia, can it?
Writer 1: Why not? It's all people really want.
Writer 2: Good enough for me!


But honestly, there was a good 10-15 minute episode in there. Like a pretty good 10-15 minute episode. Then you had 30 minutes of extremely cynical and over the top Nostalgia and 10 minutes of Amanda Plumber playing it so over the top that she's in deep orbit at this point.

I know people love nostalgia, but this was just SO heavy on nostalgia, I'd say more so than any other Star Trek episode I've ever seen, that it just made me shake my head. Which is a shame, cause the actual story they had was pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty good. With some pretty decent acting from Geordi and so forth. But yea, this show would be a lot better if they just ditched all of the member berries.

No glass in my teeth right now, but pretty disappointed in how much little faith they have in the audience.
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Polarbear

Ok, wow that episode was like a wet dream checklist for a Star Trek fan!

The cheap shots at nostalgia might be too much for some, but I was a happy nerd grinning the whole hour! :lol

Can't wait to see where this goes now. And I can't believe I'm saying that, considering how bad the previous 2 seasons were!

soupytwist

Loved seeing the old ships (although surely taking the cloaking device from the defiant would have made more sense? Or just simply take the Defiant).  But really didn't see the need for Moriarty and the whistle throwback to Farpoint though.

Loved Shaw randomly fanboying over La Forge.  Really liking Jack still too.  Mixed on seeing Spinner yet again, knew it was coming just didn't know how - I guess it's ok so far.

Adami

I get that nostalgia sells and it's apparently what most people want, but if you're going to do nostalgia, you have to put in effort.

They literally went to a nostalgia museum.

Hey remember the Defiant? Remember the Enterprise A? Remember Voyager? Remember Star Trek IV? If not we'll tell you it's the one with the whales. That's all it did. It was literally them looking at things and saying "member that?" And as someone else pointed out, they didn't even steal the right cloaking device for it to pay off.

Then the station with even MORE nostalgia? Remember Kirk? Remember Moriarty? Remember tribbles? Remember that episode that Data dreamed? Remember that episode that Data whistled that one time? No? We'll literally show you a clip from the episode.

Why the hell are they showing us a clip of the episode they want us to remember via the overdose of nostalgia? It's just insulting.

Did ANY of that serve a purpose? Not really. Just there to be remembered.


Now, the new Data thing was a cool idea. Not perfect, but cool. The idea of a new synth/human thing with a mix of Data/Lore/B4/ and whoever else Brent has played (Hell, throw in some Masaka while you're at it) was handled well. Him being the AI that runs the damn place made no sense, but eh. I liked how Brent handled switching between the personalities mostly and I loved Levar's reaction to seeing all of it. It was cool. Shaw geeking out over Geordi was clever and nice. Geordi and Picard having their heart to heart was done well too.

But honestly this season feels more like fan fiction than anything else. Seasons 1 and 2 were.....I have no idea what that is, and fan fiction is a lot better than whatever that was. The more I think about it, the more I realize how similar this season is to Enterprise season 4, at least the first half of it thus far before they got into the better storylines of the xenophobes. It's as much a show ABOUT Trek as it is just being Trek, which isn't what I want, but the stuff that ISN'T that, is enjoyable. Just wish we got more of the interesting stuff and less the call backs, and obviously less rehashing story lines we already had, like the Dominion infiltrating the Federation, there being a huge conspiracy, and no one can trust anyone.
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King Postwhore

I think there are call backs because it's been 30 year (20 for the movies, I'd guess) so many new fans don't know the characters plus they haven't been together in 20 + years.  Vets like you don't like the call backs because you are versed in the Trek world. 
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Adami

#4348
Quote from: kingshmegland on March 25, 2023, 10:21:49 AM
I think there are call backs because it's been 30 year (20 for the movies, I'd guess) so many new fans don't know the characters plus they haven't been together in 20 + years.  Vets like you don't like the call backs because you are versed in the Trek world.

Can't say I agree. They didn't show the Defiant, Voyager, Bounty, Kirk, a Tribble, Moriarty, a crow etc for fans who aren't familiar with it. Or else they'd just be confused and tune out. They did it for people who already know all of those things so that those people can be like "HEY I REMEMBER THAT! I LIKE THAT THING!" and that's kind of it. It's cheap, it's a little insulting, and sadly, it REALLY works well. This will probably be the highest rated episode thus far simply because of how much nostalgia was in it.

And I'm not annoyed because I'm already familiar with those things. I'm annoyed by the WAY it's being done and the purpose it seems to serve. If they want to use nostalgia as a clever way to better tell a good story or inform character, awesome! Having Hugh was a (surprisingly) good example of using nostalgia to further the story. Sadly it wasn't a good story, but he was used well for the most part. But this was just pointing at things and say "member that?" I just can't get behind that kind of lazy use of call backs.


Edit: Anyway, I feel like I'm in the minority on this if not alone, so I'll stop harping on it.
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King Postwhore

Sure but for some nostalgia is comforting. Now, like someone said, why not take the Defiant's cloaking device?  I get it, this season is at least better than the 1st 2. 

What you are searching for in the old Trek is dead now.  Not many TV shows have the morals, ideas of the old Trek. I've come to peace with that
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

YtseJam

Quote from: Adami on March 25, 2023, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: kingshmegland on March 25, 2023, 10:21:49 AM
I think there are call backs because it's been 30 year (20 for the movies, I'd guess) so many new fans don't know the characters plus they haven't been together in 20 + years.  Vets like you don't like the call backs because you are versed in the Trek world.

Can't say I agree. They didn't show the Defiant, Voyager, Bounty, Kirk, a Tribble, Moriarty, a crow etc for fans who aren't familiar with it. Or else they'd just be confused and tune out. They did it for people who already know all of those things so that those people can be like "HEY I REMEMBER THAT! I LIKE THAT THING!" and that's kind of it. It's cheap, it's a little insulting, and sadly, it REALLY works well. This will probably be the highest rated episode thus far simply because of how much nostalgia was in it.

And I'm not annoyed because I'm already familiar with those things. I'm annoyed by the WAY it's being done and the purpose it seems to serve. If they want to use nostalgia as a clever way to better tell a good story or inform character, awesome! Having Hugh was a (surprisingly) good example of using nostalgia to further the story. Sadly it wasn't a good story, but he was used well for the most part. But this was just pointing at things and say "member that?" I just can't get behind that kind of lazy use of call backs.


Edit: Anyway, I feel like I'm in the minority on this if not alone, so I'll stop harping on it.

So what if you're in the minority? You aren't wrong. The nostalgia would be better if it was spread out and they weren't in this thing with some ugly lady that smokes that is a changeling? I am confused over everything and am a veteran TNG trekkie

DoctorAction

Episode 6. Phew.

I'm fully with Adami. Couldn't be more obvious and nod-wink if it tried.

I like Worf in it.

hefdaddy42

Quote from: Adami on March 25, 2023, 10:14:54 AM
I get that nostalgia sells and it's apparently what most people want, but if you're going to do nostalgia, you have to put in effort.

They literally went to a nostalgia museum.
Honestly, that's the best way to work in the kinds of nostalgia they were using.  Makes sense that it would be in a museum.  Makes sense you would see a lot of that kind of thing in that kind of museum.  Makes a lot more sense than somehow incorporating the Defiant into the storyline, or whatever.

I would be pissed if they WEREN'T incorporating at least some nostalgia.  Nostalgia is why there's a show.  Seasons 1 & 2 had very little, and they sucked out loud.  The two aren't necessarily related, but they aren't necessarily NOT related, either.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Adami

Guess we're just on two different pages with that.

#brohug
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hefdaddy42

Quote from: Adami on March 27, 2023, 08:06:24 AM
Guess we're just on two different pages with that.

#brohug
*hugs*
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 08:19:46 PMHef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

ZirconBlue

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on March 27, 2023, 07:58:05 AM
Quote from: Adami on March 25, 2023, 10:14:54 AM
I get that nostalgia sells and it's apparently what most people want, but if you're going to do nostalgia, you have to put in effort.

They literally went to a nostalgia museum.
Honestly, that's the best way to work in the kinds of nostalgia they were using.  Makes sense that it would be in a museum.  Makes sense you would see a lot of that kind of thing in that kind of museum.  Makes a lot more sense than somehow incorporating the Defiant into the storyline, or whatever.

I would be pissed if they WEREN'T incorporating at least some nostalgia.  Nostalgia is why there's a show.  Seasons 1 & 2 had very little, and they sucked out loud.  The two aren't necessarily related, but they aren't necessarily NOT related, either.


I think the writers just thought fans would enjoy it.  Everyone in my household certainly did. 

DoctorAction

Glad you diggers are digging it. Don't want to poop on any party.

It is a big improvement on the first season, imo. And it IS nice to see these actors in these roles again.

soupytwist

Just for a change of topic anyone care to try and rank the seasons of TNG?

I got pretty much cemented in.

7. Season 1.
6. Season 2.
5. Season 7.

...and then it gets much tougher as 3 - 6 are pretty similar in peak TNG.

4. Season 4.
3. Season 3.
2. Season 6.
1. Season 5.

Polarbear

1. Season 3
2. Season 4
3. Season 5
4. Season 6



5. Season 2
6. Season 7
7. Season 1

Season 3 was TNG at it's height IMO. From there it was a slow decline, but the next 3 seasons were still excellent to good. Seasons 2, 7 and 1 are much lower in quality, although each of them have some standout episodes.

soupytwist

Quote from: Polarbear on March 28, 2023, 02:38:47 AM
1. Season 3
2. Season 4
3. Season 5
4. Season 6



5. Season 2
6. Season 7
7. Season 1

Season 3 was TNG at it's height IMO. From there it was a slow decline, but the next 3 seasons were still excellent to good. Seasons 2, 7 and 1 are much lower in quality, although each of them have some standout episodes.

I think 4 lacks the classic episodes that the other 3 good seasons do.  In fact that's why I put Season 5 top I think it have the most classics - Darmok, Inner Light, Unification 1 & 2, Cause & Effect, I Borg (and in The First Duty they actually made a great Wesley episode)

Orbert

Finally caught up on the last two episodes of Picard.  I held off on Ep 5 because Mrs Orbert and I had a bunch of other stuff to deal with, but ep 6 dropped and I decided to catch up.

Ep 5 wasn't bad, but as already mentioned, they seemed to think Ro was a much more important character and a much more important person to Picard than I remember her being.  Hey, I liked Ensign Ro.  Cool charaacter and even kinda hot in a weird, Bajoran way.  But the heartfelt moments of unrequited (platonic) love between her and Jean-Luc seemed to come out of nowhere.  Heck, if they were digging for nostalgia, didn't Ro and Riker have a little fun during that episode when everyone's memories got wiped?  If anything, I was expecting some kind of reference to that, or at least a stronger connection between them than between Ro and Picard.  But other than that, pretty good episode.  So she was Worf's handler?  Okay.

Ep 6 continued the pretty good.  The nostalgia is strong with this one.  Like a fucking layer of gravy over an already loaded baked potato.  But WTF, it was fun.  Spiner was good, but I thought it was kinda dumb how he went "I am Data... I am Lore... I am B-4... I am Soong..."  Spiner's delivery was great, his facial expressions and delivery were spot on.  I just thought it was lame how they felt the need to do that just to "show off".  I'm glad Geordi and the whole La Forge family are on board.  Yeah, Vadic is over-the-top and slightly entertaining but mostly annoying.

Quote from: YtseJam on March 25, 2023, 05:22:53 PM
some ugly lady that smokes that is a changeling?

Yes.

Orbert

Okay, on another board they're talking about Ro and Picard and I'd totally forgotten that she came back briefly in a later season.  I don't even remember anything about the storyline, so it's possible that her dramatic exit was entirely "earned".  She did go out like a badass.  The main complaint they have over there is that Ro was re-introduced, only to [SPOILER].  The bit with the earring was cool, too.

Can anyone recap what happened when Ro came back to the Enterprise in TNG?

jingle.boy

She was in 9 episodes on TNG, culminating in S7 and Preemptive Strike.  I don't remember the episode in tremendous detail, but she essentially defected from Starfleet to re-join the Maquis.
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Adami

Quote from: jingle.boy on March 28, 2023, 11:14:17 AM
She was in 9 episodes on TNG, culminating in S7 and Preemptive Strike.  I don't remember the episode in tremendous detail, but she essentially defected from Starfleet to re-join the Maquis.

Yea. Picard sent her in undercover to infiltrate the Maquis and then she double crossed him and Starfleet, betrayed him and joined the Maquis for real.
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Orbert

Ah, the betrayal that they were talking about.  I totally forgot about that.

Maybe I should've done a full TNG rewatch before this season.  They seem to be pulling stuff out of every crack and crevice.

El Barto

1
7

2

5

3/4/6

I went and scored all of the episodes a while back, and this is how I recall it shaking down. Seasons 1 and 7 scored real close to each other. Seasons 3, 4, and 6 were all about the same, and clearly the best. Not sure one is better than another overall. S5 had a lot of excellent episodes, several of the best, but just enough dogs to bring it down compared to 3/4/6.

Samsara

Just caught up on episode 6 of Picard Season 3. Wow. Tremendous. Spiner's "new" character reminds me of the main character in the movie Split. Will be interesting moving forward. Looking forward to episode 7 tonight. I assume it is out today.  :metal

King Postwhore

"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

jammindude


Orbert

I remember watching TNG during its original broadcast, and the episode with Deanna and Beverly working out together.  Even as I was admittedly enjoying what was on screen, I was simultaneously embarrassed that they were actually doing it.  TNG was finally starting to gain some traction and be taken seriously as a show, and now we have this.  Great job keeping things 100% on the level, guys.  And I'm not sure what was worse: that they thought it was a good idea to do this to appeal to the incels, or that maybe they were right.

I don't recognize the shot of the Trill babes making out.  DS9?  I've only been through that series once.

Adami

Quote from: Orbert on March 29, 2023, 11:54:14 AM
I remember watching TNG during its original broadcast, and the episode with Deanna and Beverly working out together.  Even as I was admittedly enjoying what was on screen, I was simultaneously embarrassed that they were actually doing it.  TNG was finally starting to gain some traction and be taken seriously as a show, and now we have this.  Great job keeping things 100% on the level, guys.  And I'm not sure what was worse: that they thought it was a good idea to do this to appeal to the incels, or that maybe they were right.

I don't recognize the shot of the Trill babes making out.  DS9?  I've only been through that series once.

Yea the kissing is from DS9.

But I was watching a recent interview with Gates and she pointed out that on TNG, the only scenes women had just the two of them were talking about men or working out. Not sure if that's  100% true, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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jammindude

As long as ya dunnit liyte that dahm cahndle!   

Adami

Quote from: jammindude on March 29, 2023, 12:42:12 PM
As long as ya dunnit liyte that dahm cahndle!

See, if Picard wanted to just go completely nuts with dumb references, they can bring back the candle.
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Dream Team

People knowing how to write female characters were definitely in the minority back then.

Adami

I'm sure everyone will be shocked, but I thought the episode was pretty meh.

Nothing awful about it. And I really loved the stuff between Brent and Levar. But the rest was just generic and boring.

Whatever's backstory is cliche and uninteresting. Thus making the overall plot uncompelling to me. And while I really am digging the actor who plays Jack, I am completely over his character. He's nothing but a living mystery box. Just mystery after mystery and not much else to go on.

Shrug.




Oh. I was initially really enjoying that surprising cameo (kudos to keeping both of them thus far under wraps) until it became pointless. Hope it comes back around in a more meaningful. The Ro cameo was great. This was just meaningless unfortunately. Hope whatever other cameos they have kept secret have more emotional weight. .
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