Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[soupytwist]

Chakotay is the only real crap Trek character where the actor is a major reason the character sucks.  Beltran gives such a dull, flat performance in a role that needs someone much more dynamic, then the guy boasts about phoning it in on later seasons because the writers had given up on his character.  Yeah the mystic Indian stuff isn't good, but it could have be tolerable is they had an actor who embraced it and had fun with its stupidity, instead you had a guy who just looks bored. 

[Orbert]

I don't know if he's the only one, but I agree with the rest.  When a character is supposed to be reserved, intelligent, strong, any of those things that require the actor to project something, they damned well better deliver, or the result will just be dull and boring.  Is he quiet and pensive, or is he just boring?  Is he level-headed, never loses control, or is he just boring?  Projecting that quiet strength of character requires real acting, somehow conveying to the audience that there's more to the character than what they see.  Robert Beltran isn't that level of actor.

[Polarbear]

I zoned out of Picard season 2 after like EP3, but I had to watch E9 to see if it was as bad as everybody said.

Jesus Christ, this is the Star Trek equivalent of Die Hard 5! What I hated the most, is how they deconstruct the Borg and turn them into a complete joke. The Borg queen has been assimilating worlds across the galaxy, because she is lonely and needs love and connection?? Give me a break!

Only way to salvage this now, is for them to do some kind of magic reset button! Like Q snapping his fingers and telling Picard that this was all a dream and a test..

[abydos]

To be honest, I only watch just so I have the context for watching reviews like RLM or AngryJoe cos they are way more entertaining than that. I'll have to rewatch some Voyager and TNG just so I can wash this bad taste and them ruining great characters like 7 and Picard.

[DoctorAction]

I'm so glad I'm not watching Picard anymore. 

Just watched the title sequence of SNW. Feel like I'm building myself up to be disappointed but it looks so pretty...

https://trekmovie.com/2022/04/29/watch-opening-titles-for-star-trek-strange-new-worlds/

[Adami]

I’m nervous about BNW. Cast looks good. Premise looks good. But the later trailers give me a sneaking suspicion we will soon enter a “save the universe over the course of a season” direction. Hope I’m wrong.

[YtseJam]

Chakotay is the only real crap Trek character where the actor is a major reason the character sucks.  Beltran gives such a dull, flat performance in a role that needs someone much more dynamic, then the guy boasts about phoning it in on later seasons because the writers had given up on his character.  Yeah the mystic Indian stuff isn't good, but it could have be tolerable is they had an actor who embraced it and had fun with its stupidity, instead you had a guy who just looks bored.

I'll take Chakotay over ANY Discovery character x10. I think the writing for his character was more flat than his acting. Did they explain why Harry Kim never got a promotion?

[Orbert]

I don't think there was ever an official, on-screen explanation for why Ensign Kim was still Ensign Kim after seven years.  It bugged me for a long time, too.  But given the unique circumstances of Voyager -- in the Delta quadrant with an estimated 70-year journey home ahead of them -- field promotions had to work differently, and perhaps not at all.  Suppose after a few years, Janeway actually promotes Harry to full Lieutenant.  Cool.  Did Tom or B'Elanna ever get a promotion?  Maybe a few years later, someone else gets one.  The problem is that they've got a 70-year journey ahead of them.  By time they got home, every officer would've been a Commander.  Janeway, being a Captain, could not promote someone else to Captain, but everyone else would eventually be promoted as high as they could go.  It didn't end up taking 70 years, but that's because they caught a break.

I figured a decision was made to basically not have any field promotions.  I don't know if the decision was made by Berman, or maybe it was supposed to be a discussion we never saw between Janeway and Chakotay and maybe Tuvok.  But it made sense in a way that they just couldn't start with the field promotions.  Command structure would've eventually gone to hell.  So they went with the "Gilligan's Island" model, where everything and everyone just stays the same for the entire series.

[El Barto]

Paris got a promotion. In his case it may have had more to do with restoring him to his original rank before being cashiered.

I suppose another problem is that they shuffled, and perhaps expanded their officer corps in the pilot. Some of the Maquis crew would have been given field commissions to officer ranks.

[Orbert]

I thought I remembered Paris getting a promotion of some kind.  I think the audience just isn't supposed to think about it.

[soupytwist]

Paris got a promotion.

When they got rid of Kes and replaced her with Seven they also should have dumped Chakotay and promoted Paris to second in command.  Instead they ruined Paris in the later seasons by sticking him in a tedious never ending up and down  romance with Torres.

[El Barto]

Paris got a promotion.

When they got rid of Kes and replaced her with Seven they also should have dumped Chakotay and promoted Paris to second in command.  Instead they ruined Paris in the later seasons by sticking him in a tedious never ending up and down  romance with Torres.

Paris would have been a terrible first officer. While ST never really showed it much, the XO is supposed to be the bad cop. Paris was too easy going, and to put him into that role would have been to completely change his character. If Chakotay were sacked it'd be Tuvok all the way. Interestingly, the only time they ever really got the first officer thing right was the DS9 episode Valiant, when they had that awful blonde cunt terrorizing Jake. Data serving as Jelico's XO was also on point.

And yeah, the Paris/Tores thing was pretty awful, but in the grand scheme of Star Trek inter-crew romances they were far better than others. Seven/Chakotay was pretty terrible, and Worf/Troy was as bad as anything they could have come up with.

[Adami]

Oh Christ I forgot about the Seven/Chakotay thing.


And while Worf and Troi was bad, luckily it barely existed. So I can easily look past it.

[El Barto]

Oh Christ I forgot about the Seven/Chakotay thing.


And while Worf and Troi was bad, luckily it barely existed. So I can easily look past it.

Same applies to Seven/Chakotay. That was only the last few episodes. I think the difference is that they only invented that one as a device for the series finale. The Worf/Troy thing didn't actually serve any purpose at all. It was just a pathetic attempt to do something, anything, because they were so completely out of ideas by that point.

[Adami]

While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.

[El Barto]

While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.

Data's brother
Gerdi's mom
Troi's mom
Data's mom
Worf's other brother
Crusher's grandmother
Worf's adult son
Picard's son

When a third of your episodes involve relatives of characters you either just invented or keep dredging up, you're officially out of ideas.

On top of that, Data has nightmares, warp travel be bad, the Enterprise becomes sentient, Wesley becomes an Indian, Spiner overacting his freakin ass off. . .Man, what a shit show. To be fair, there were also some very good episodes in there. Gambit, Lower Decks as an oddball, Thine Own Self, and of course All Good Things. It's just kind of clear that they were grasping at straws for stories to tell, and some of the better ones were probably punted off to DS9.

[YtseJam]

Data has nightmares

Phantasms, I loved that episode  Cellular peptide cake

[Orbert]

with mint frosting, I believe.

[HOF]

with mint frosting, I believe.

Delicious! (watch to the end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsNrPPYCRMc

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMFZ0XDK3uY

[Adami]

While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.

Data's brother
Gerdi's mom
Troi's mom
Data's mom
Worf's other brother
Crusher's grandmother
Worf's adult son
Picard's son

When a third of your episodes involve relatives of characters you either just invented or keep dredging up, you're officially out of ideas.

On top of that, Data has nightmares, warp travel be bad, the Enterprise becomes sentient, Wesley becomes an Indian, Spiner overacting his freakin ass off. . .Man, what a shit show. To be fair, there were also some very good episodes in there. Gambit, Lower Decks as an oddball, Thine Own Self, and of course All Good Things. It's just kind of clear that they were grasping at straws for stories to tell, and some of the better ones were probably punted off to DS9.

I can agree on some of that, but we obviously have a little different taste. Which is cool.

Just going through season 7 episodes now, it looks like I like about 17 of the 24 episodes. Not all of those 17 are amazing, but they're all good by me. So I'd call that good enough.

[El Barto]

While the last season definitely had some stinkers, I don’t see it nearly as negatively as you do. I think they were largely doing fine. I’d call the Word/Troi thing a major misstep. Not them being out of ideas.

Data's brother
Gerdi's mom
Troi's mom
Data's mom
Worf's other brother
Crusher's grandmother
Worf's adult son
Picard's son

When a third of your episodes involve relatives of characters you either just invented or keep dredging up, you're officially out of ideas.

On top of that, Data has nightmares, warp travel be bad, the Enterprise becomes sentient, Wesley becomes an Indian, Spiner overacting his freakin ass off. . .Man, what a shit show. To be fair, there were also some very good episodes in there. Gambit, Lower Decks as an oddball, Thine Own Self, and of course All Good Things. It's just kind of clear that they were grasping at straws for stories to tell, and some of the better ones were probably punted off to DS9.

I can agree on some of that, but we obviously have a little different taste. Which is cool.

Just going through season 7 episodes now, it looks like I like about 17 of the 24 episodes. Not all of those 17 are amazing, but they're all good by me. So I'd call that good enough.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest that the season totally sucked. In truth my like/dislike ratio probably isn't terribly far off from yours. I just think they were completely out of ideas, and it resulted in a higher number of awful episodes and a generally inferior season. That's what led to the ridiculous Worf/Troi thing.

[hefdaddy42]

Despite my best intentions, I have, in fact, continued to watch Picard, and wow, it's not been good.  At least there is only one more episod.

I have been hearing great things about SNW, but I have no interest in any kind of prequel at all, so I guess there is no current Star Trek for me.

[YtseJam]

with mint frosting, I believe.

Delicious! (watch to the end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsNrPPYCRMc

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMFZ0XDK3uY

 

[Orbert]

I told you, mint frosting is where it's at.

[soupytwist]

Just going through season 7 episodes now, it looks like I like about 17 of the 24 episodes. Not all of those 17 are amazing, but they're all good by me. So I'd call that good enough.

The worst thing in season 7 (yeah even worse the rapey candle) was Troi getting promoted.  That whole thing was laughable - to start with Troi acts like a brat when she doesn't pass (which should instantly mean she can't take the test again).  But the other problem is the exam/test to be able to captain a starship is literally one thing (and it the same thing ever test?!?) and to pass you have to be willing to send someone to their death but the problem is the someone is a simulation anyway so not a real person anyway...).  Awful writing.  So what is the point of Star Fleet Academy when you can pass an extremely easy 10 minute (which you can fail multiple times) and you can sit in the captains chair.

[Adami]

1) I think you're looking at it knowing the result ahead of time. YOU know she had to send cyclops to die, and you know you could make that same call easily. But she didn't know what to do. She had to figure out that was the answer when it wasn't obvious at all.
2) From what I could tell, that wasn't the test, it was just the only part of the test she failed. I'm pretty sure they alluded to other tests/etc that she passed just fine.

[El Barto]

My problem with it was that it was just a dumb, pointless thing to do that took away from an otherwise good A plot. I liked the episode because of the Data story, and despite the silly Troi B plot which tried to wreck it. Also, as I recall she didn't figure it out anyway. Riker essentially told her what the answer was.

[El Barto]

Rolling Stone's review of the first few SNW episodes. RS seems to get what the problem was and finds this a significant improvement. It does seem to be doing a whole lot to avoid serialization in favor of standalone episodes, and it also seems to be content to reside in GR's idea of the future, rather than trying to turn the federation into modern America. At the same time they do seem to be relying somewhat heavily on fan wank. The throwback ideas they came up with sounded hit or miss to me to begin with. Bringing Uhura on didn't sit particularly well with me, she was never all that interesting a character. Bringing M'Benga on as CMO was an inspired idea, though. Sounds like they're still all over the board with those. I can live without Spock+Chapel, and do we really need a Khan on the bridge? Maybe they'll give us a break and wait a year before bringing in Spiner as another Soong. Still, the review does make it seem promising.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-reviews/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-review-1344258/

[soupytwist]

1) I think you're looking at it knowing the result ahead of time. YOU know she had to send cyclops to die, and you know you could make that same call easily. But she didn't know what to do. She had to figure out that was the answer when it wasn't obvious at all.

They should have gone down the Worf wants to become a Doctor - He would get a crash course over a couple of days, fail the test repeatedly, then passes when his examiner basically gives him the answer (let the patient die) and voila, dr Worf, chief of medical staff.

[Adami]

I'll agree it wasn't necessary and it wasn't well written, but the worst thing ST has done? Not even close.

[soupytwist]

I'll agree it wasn't necessary and it wasn't well written, but the worst thing ST has done? Not even close.

Well yeah ultimately it's a throwaway B plot in a fairly forgettable episode.   

[soupytwist]

Picard season 2 finale.  Meh...Wesley.

[Adami]

Picard season 2 finale.  Meh...Wesley.

Huh?

[soupytwist]

Picard season 2 finale.  Meh...Wesley.

Huh?

I was trying to keep it simple as I think i'm the only one watching anymore 
Basically overall rating for the finale....meh.....and Wesley Crusher turned up.

[Adami]

Like normal Wesley or god of the Travelers Wesley?

I've read some reviews and it's all over the place. What I've read sounds awful though.