Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Adami]

They caught the spirit of ToS really well.  Keeping the playfulness of interactions of the 'trinity' of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and updated the B characters to flesh them out, the only thing lacking across all 3 of those films was a worthy villain for the cast to play against.  But those films are just a heap of fun, and that should be at the heart of Trek - which is something I hope they bring back on Strange New Worlds.

I get that, but I don't necessarily agree.

I think they attempted to catch they spirit of TOS. And they tried, on paper. But people being snarky with each other and lots of wink wink jokes between them doesn't make that spirit accurate. They changed Spock considerably from ToS, so trying to recreate the same trio with a vastly different Spock also kind of undercut things. Instead of the overly emotional Bones, the largely devoid of emotion and super logical Spock, and the middle ground human Kirk, you have the snarky Bones, the snarky Spock, and the snarky Kirk.

Also why does Star Trek need a villain? I get that it CAN work and it HAS worked, but so so rarely. Of all the ST films, how many had direct villains that were also great? Kahn, obviously. The Borg. Maybe Sauron or whatever, but he was more of a plot device. Star Trek is about the journey, the exploration, the mission etc. Not good guy shooting up/beating up/whatever bad guy. That's every other action movie, which was never what Star Trek was about.

I think a super telling thing in that article was that they arrived at their destination by means of focus group testing. That's about where Star Trek is and why it keeps going wrong.

[soupytwist]

They caught the spirit of ToS really well.  Keeping the playfulness of interactions of the 'trinity' of Kirk, Spock and McCoy and updated the B characters to flesh them out, the only thing lacking across all 3 of those films was a worthy villain for the cast to play against.  But those films are just a heap of fun, and that should be at the heart of Trek - which is something I hope they bring back on Strange New Worlds.

I get that, but I don't necessarily agree.

I think they attempted to catch they spirit of TOS. And they tried, on paper. But people being snarky with each other and lots of wink wink jokes between them doesn't make that spirit accurate. They changed Spock considerably from ToS, so trying to recreate the same trio with a vastly different Spock also kind of undercut things. Instead of the overly emotional Bones, the largely devoid of emotion and super logical Spock, and the middle ground human Kirk, you have the snarky Bones, the snarky Spock, and the snarky Kirk.

Also why does Star Trek need a villain? I get that it CAN work and it HAS worked, but so so rarely. Of all the ST films, how many had direct villains that were also great? Kahn, obviously. The Borg. Maybe Sauron or whatever, but he was more of a plot device. Star Trek is about the journey, the exploration, the mission etc. Not good guy shooting up/beating up/whatever bad guy. That's every other action movie, which was never what Star Trek was about.

I think a super telling thing in that article was that they arrived at their destination by means of focus group testing. That's about where Star Trek is and why it keeps going wrong.

For me the films do need a good villain, the two best films IMO as you said have Khan and the Borg Queen.  The Series are different beasts, but for a film I want something cinematic and exciting personally.

[Adami]

I get that, and I would be okay if the motivation was better and different and not just more Kahn.

Kahn was a guy who lost everything and was hell bent on revenge.

Nero was a guy who lost everything was hell bent on revenge.

Benedict was....Kahn.

Idris dude from Beyond was a guy who lost everything and was hell bent on revenge.

At least with the Borg it was completely impersonal and not just the same rehash. Same with Undiscovered Country. You need some interesting pathos and story. Dude angry and looking for revenge is just boring at this point, and Star Trek has had no clue how to do it since Kahn.

And I think with the older Trek films, the action served the story. While now the story serves the action. Whatever gives them the excuse for more explosions, action, space battles, high speed chases, etc is the story they pick.

[hefdaddy42]

[YtseJam]

 

[Orbert]

We started Discovery season 4.  Ugh.  Apparently none of the showrunners read any of the online critiques of this show because they don't do a damned thing about the things that people pretty much unanimously hate.  Long boring speeches, especially when there's supposedly a countdown going on.  Michael Burnham is always right and always awesome and the only possible person who can save everyone, despite how many times she's wrong and not awesome and people die.  Everything looks fucking fantastic, but doesn't make any goddamn sense.  Ships that break up into small fragments, then reassemble, while flying?  Why?  Nothing is just okay; everything is either fucking horrible or super amazing sparkle cake.  Melodrama!  Angst!  Pain!  Death!

Still watching it because Mrs. Orbert and I are down to one show that we watch together, and this is it.  I am watching a show that totally sucks ass in order to fulfill my husbandly duties.  I'm not sure if that makes me a good person or just an idiot, but I feel stupider after every episode of STD, so probably both.

[gmillerdrake]

We started Discovery season 4.  Ugh.  Apparently none of the showrunners read any of the online critiques of this show because they don't do a damned thing about the things that people pretty much unanimously hate.  Long boring speeches, especially when there's supposedly a countdown going on.  Michael Burnham is always right and always awesome and the only possible person who can save everyone, despite how many times she's wrong and not awesome and people die.  Everything looks fucking fantastic, but doesn't make any goddamn sense.  Ships that break up into small fragments, then reassemble, while flying?  Why?  Nothing is just okay; everything is either fucking horrible or super amazing sparkle cake.  Melodrama!  Angst!  Pain!  Death!

Still watching it because Mrs. Orbert and I are down to one show that we watch together, and this is it.  I am watching a show that totally sucks ass in order to fulfill my husbandly duties.  I'm not sure if that makes me a good person or just an idiot, but I feel stupider after every episode of STD, so probably both.

     I’m there with you. I’m watching out of obligation due to I’ve watched this much…..might as well power through it. There’s no need for me to drone on about how bad it is…..I think that’s well established. At this point….I….like you…..question my sanity as I continue to ingest this boredom.

[soupytwist]

I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.

[Adami]

I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.

I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.

I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.

[soupytwist]

I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.

I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.

I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.

Goldsman or Matalas?

[gmillerdrake]

season 2 of discovery impressed me.

No question it was the best season. I had high hopes for the series going forward after S2 as it felt like it was gaining some traction. Then......

[soupytwist]

season 2 of discovery impressed me.

No question it was the best season. I had high hopes for the series going forward after S2 as it felt like it was gaining some traction. Then......

First half of season 3 showed potential, then it fell of a cliff - the finale was terrible.

[Adami]

I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.

I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.

I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.

Goldsman or Matalas?

Oh good lord no.

I meant Marc Bernardin. He said he joined the writing crew but I don’t see him listed. So I dunno?

Also this as a description just reeks of everything I don’t like about modern Trek.

Starfleet must once again call on legendary Jean-Luc Picard after members of his former crew - Cristóbal Rios, Seven of Nine, Raffi Musiker, and Dr. Agnes Jurati - discover an anomaly in space that threatens the galaxy.

[hefdaddy42]

Just watched episode 1 of Picard S2.

I thought it was pretty good, as far as it went.  Season 1 was definitely a bit of a train wreck, but Season 2 is off to a good start.

[gmillerdrake]

anomaly in space that threatens the galaxy.

There's been so many anomaly's in space that they shouldn't be considered anomaly's anymore 

[DoctorAction]

 

[Orbert]

Wow, some serious fanservice going on there, but the gang is basically back together and there's new shit to figure out, so on we go!  It was not bad.

[Adami]

Will hopefully watch Picard later today.

But I did catch on Discovery, and while I said I would stop saying bad things about it, they are doing a trope that others have done which just pisses me off.

I mean, the whole season is essentially "We are going to make first contact with a new species...from another galaxy....that is the most powerful race ever....and like NOTHING we've seen before....and we're going to see them................eventualy."

It feels like they took all the worst inspiration from Lost. Like, promise something really cool and don't show it until the very very end. That way you don't actually have to deliver anything satisfactory since their only goal is to get you to watch till the end. It works, sadly, but it annoys me.

[Adami]

I really liked season 1 of Picard, so you can take this with a pinch of salt..........but I really enjoyed episode 1 of season 2, like really, really enjoyed.

I’m a fan of one of the new writers and season 2 of discovery impressed me. I’ll watch Picard when I get some time but my expectations are low.

I haven’t hidden my thoughts that season 1 was maybe my lowest ranking Star Trek thing ever.

Goldsman or Matalas?

Just started Picard and noticed my guy's name as a "Supervising Producer." Thought he was a writer. Not sure what a supervising producer does haha.

[DoctorAction]

Watched 20 mins of Picard S2E1. Big pile of meh. With a large helping of meh sauce. I don't get who they're trying to appeal to. Might has well have called it "Old Bastard Picard".
 
I'd watch a series called "Seven Of Nine", mind. This? No.

Pretty surprised at my own lack of patience with this and Disco. I went into both with benefit of the doubt set to stun.

Still looking forward to SNW and new LD.

[Adami]

Terrible? No. 

Good? No.

It’s much like Discovery season 4. Just meh and boring.

[Orbert]

That opening scene sure caught my attention, but it was "new Trek" styled.  Everything is bright colorful lights, showers of sparks raining down from somewhere as the ship takes damage, sometimes even debris on the floor, yet if you look at the consoles, there's no actual damage.  Very silly.  Just like Discovery, everything looks amazing and flashy, but makes no sense.

Also, by sheer coincidence I suppose, the new Picard episode echoed several things that we just happened to catch while getting caught up on Discovery.  Mention of Kobayashi Maru, Elrond is the first Romulan cadet at Starfleet Academy (they'd mentioned how Spock was the first Vulcan at SFA on Discovery), and of course a huge, new threat unlike anything we've ever seen before (or at least since last episode).  It was weird and I had to double-check in my own brain whether I'd already seen the episode, but it was brand new, just a retread of all other Trek stuff.  Yay for fanservice though, I guess.

[DoctorAction]

I feel like Patrick Stewart is deliberately doing that breathy, croaky voice, too. I've seen him in some charity ads recently and he didn't sound that way, iirc. It's like they need to acknowledge he's old ALL the time. We know he's old. Look at him!

Anyway. No need to darken the Action House with any more of that.

[Adami]

Also that CGI Q….that was definitely something.



But to add a positive note about Picard, I’m still digging Juan Solo.

[soupytwist]

Star Trek fans - enough fan service, we want new things!
Star Wars fans - enough with the new things we want fan service!

[Adami]

Star Trek fans - enough fan service, we want new things!
Star Wars fans - enough with the new things we want fan service!

Star Trek fans - We want good stuff
Star Wars - We want good stuff

It's not about the what, but the how. Doing fan service CAN be done very well, or can be done terribly. Their executions just seem awful, even if the intent is fine. Quibbling about what they're doing while ignoring how they're doing it tends to miss the point, you know?


Also, I'm disliking the Picard episode more as I think about it.

Juan Solo - STOP FIRING! EVERYONE STOP FIRING!
Everyone - LET'S KEEP SHOOTING AND STUFF!

[gmillerdrake]

Also, I'm disliking the Picard episode more as I think about it.

Yeah....I fear that this will just be another mess of a season but I'm willing to give it a shot out of loyalty to the character and a strong passion for inflicting psychological harm on myself.

I'm not sure there's an 'original' SciFi idea left out there for them to explore. We've now circled back to time travel. I like a good time travel story but they're tricky to tell correctly. Only a few series have done it well.

And I'm fine with fan service if it's handled correctly but didn't feel that it was in Ep. 1. Literally no need for Guinan in that episode. I can see Q being there due to the nature of his character....anyway, I may have to take the high road on this series also because I don't have a good feeling about there being anything 'good' to talk about and I don't want to trash it for those who are enjoying it.

[Orbert]

Juan Solo - STOP FIRING! EVERYONE STOP FIRING!
Everyone - LET'S KEEP SHOOTING AND STUFF!

That scene really annoyed me.  Really?  That captain has shouted at least a couple of times to STOP FUCKING FIRING! but every few seconds a new batch of idiots storms the bridge shooting things.  I guess that idea was supposed to be that it's total chaos because the big scary threat is big and scary and threatening but instead it just looked like total chaos.

[soupytwist]

Literally no need for Guinan in that episode.

Setup for payoff later on maybe.  We know this is a Q heavy season, and TNG hinted at Guinan and Q being enemies - although it never explained or explored that.

[HOF]

Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?

[Adami]

Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?

Oh no. I can’t remember the dudes name to save my life and he’s basically Han Solo but Spanish.

[HOF]

Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?

Oh no. I can’t remember the dudes name to save my life and he’s basically Han Solo but Spanish.

Too bad! Was hoping they had decided to add Han Solo to Juan Soto to get that name.

[soupytwist]

Is there really a Star Trek character named Juan Solo?

Oh no. I can’t remember the dudes name to save my life and he’s basically Han Solo but Spanish.

I get Starbuck vibes from him.  Fireflys main character was the biggest  Han Solo ripoff.

[DoctorAction]

Ah, there was a great show...

[soupytwist]

Ah, there was a great show...

I never got the appeal.