Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[ReaperKK]

I totally forgot about the zit. I'll make my way to watching the movie again eventually and maybe I won't have rose colored glasses on.

[BlobVanDam]

I totally forgot about the zit. I'll make my way to watching the movie again eventually and maybe I won't have rose colored glasses on.

Nah, it's fine. Definitely not one of the stronger movies, but not the worst either.

[soupytwist]

I don't understand why insurrection has so much hate. It's not an awful film. The pacing is slow and it does feel more like an episode but it's not terrible.

I think it's just become the cool thing to hate on it here. The movie is just fine. Nemesis is the obvious stain on the franchise that killed the films.

Talking bout Trek is never, ever cool!

[Kotowboy]

Star Trek : DS9 : Duel.

Just re-watched this. Still a good episode.

If Marritza wanted to be caught as Dar'heel - did he make Kira think he was the filing clerk so she would have the satisfaction of "finding out" he was Gul Dar'heel and then he would

" confess " to get her even more riled up ?

[El Barto]

Star Trek : DS9 : Duel.

Just re-watched this. Still a good episode.

If Marritza wanted to be caught as Dar'heel - did he make Kira think he was the filing clerk so she would have the satisfaction of "finding out" he was Gul Dar'heel and then he would

" confess " to get her even more riled up ?

Been a while, but I think he was making it more believable by pretending to not want to be caught. If he's just shown up and said "hey, Gul Dar'heel here, look at me everybody!" they would have found out in short order that he actually wasn't. If Kira has to dig to figure out who he actually is then she becomes more invested in exposing him as the bad guy.

And it's Duet, BTW.

[Kotowboy]

Yes yes. I made that error when Eu-Googling the episode. 

It's a good episode really early on in the show as well. Was surprised it was season 1. Usually season 1 of other Star Trek series are by the numbers.

Really obvious anti-racism moral too.

" He wasn't a bad guy ! I don't care - he's dead that's good enough for me ! "

[ReaperKK]

That is probably my favorite episode from the first season. I thought the acting was great and the story was well written. I think DS9 had a decent opening season however I didn't like Kira, I think the way Nana played her was over the top. I definitely think Kira was the weakest main character in the first season but Duet was the first episode that didn't make me roll my eyes when she appeared on screen.

[Adami]

Duet might just be my favorite DS9 episode in general. Though it has a really personal meaning to me.

[PowerSlave]

That is probably my favorite episode from the first season. I thought the acting was great and the story was well written. I think DS9 had a decent opening season however I didn't like Kira, I think the way Nana played her was over the top. I definitely think Kira was the weakest main character in the first season but Duet was the first episode that didn't make me roll my eyes when she appeared on screen.

I used to feel that way about her as well, but on my latest run through the series I tried to keep in mind that the character had a difficult life up to that point and she probably felt like she had to put up some sort of wall around herself early on in the show.

[Kotowboy]

In each Series of trek there's at least one character without whom the series would not be as great.

In TOS it's Spock. In TNG it's either Picard or Data. In DS9 It's Odo or Quark. In Voyager it's the EMH.

And I haven't seen enough ENT to comment

[BlobVanDam]

If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.

[Kotowboy]

If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.

That's why I didn't like VOY so much after TNG. i thought the bridge crew were all bleh. But after binge watching VOY in full - I now think it's a better show than TNG.

I need to persevere with ENT.

[El Barto]

If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.

I'd have to go with the ladies for the eye-candy, and that's a terrible thing for a show.

[BlobVanDam]

If I had to choose someone for ENT, I'd probably say Phlox, although it doesn't take much to stand out amongst a cast of cardboard cutouts.

I'd have to go with the ladies for the eye-candy, and that's a terrible thing for a show.

I agree it's a terrible thing for a show. I mean, I'm all for including eye candy (especially when there's a cute Asian in the mix), but that's just a bonus, not a substitute for a quality show. If that's all I wanted, I have the entire internet for that. Plus about half of my hard drive.
Plus the standard uniform in any of that era of Trek was hardly flattering, and Hoshi wasn't utilized as much as I'd have liked. T'Pol's S3/4 look was perhaps the best thing the show had going for it.

[Kotowboy]

They obviously cast 7 of 9 for her looks but Jeri Ryan was a good actor to boot.

[BlobVanDam]

7 of 9 was a win-win to me. Her character added a lot to the show, and she happened to look good doing it.

[El Barto]

I think Jolene Blaylock is a better actress than people give her credit for, but Vulcans aren't really the most exciting characters in the world. There's just not a whole lot to do with one day to day.

[BlobVanDam]

I've seen Jolene Blalock in other things, and her acting was identically bad. The other main cast Vulcans managed to do a lot with subtlety.

[Kotowboy]

I think Jolene Blaylock is a better actress than people give her credit for, but Vulcans aren't really the most exciting characters in the world. There's just not a whole lot to do with one day to day.

My favourite Vulcan after Spock is definitely Tim Russ as Tuvok. Most people play Vulcans as pissy holier-than-thou pricks.

Tuvok was the closest to Spock I think.

[soupytwist]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

[Kotowboy]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

[PowerSlave]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.

[Kotowboy]

I was watching an ep of TNG - the one with that race of aliens..who they find used a portal to travel great distances.

The Shellac ??

Anyway - some scenes were really long with no score, barely any background noise and hand held camera. It was so weird. Felt so bare.

[El Barto]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.

That's an interesting point, but I think the kink that needed to be worked out was Roddenberry. DS9 and VOY both got to start fresh without having his silliness muck things up. TNG had to suffer through 2 years of his utopian fairy-tales. That meant evolving the main characters out of their initial awfulness and a better universe to be set in.

[PowerSlave]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.

That's an interesting point, but I think the kink that needed to be worked out was Roddenberry. DS9 and VOY both got to start fresh without having his silliness muck things up. TNG had to suffer through 2 years of his utopian fairy-tales. That meant evolving the main characters out of their initial awfulness and a better universe to be set in.

How much was he involved in the show after season 2 up until his death? The reason that I ask is because I agree with KB about the show really taking off starting with season 3. Was his health in decline causing him to be less involved with the show? Or did he voluntarily give up a degree of creative control to others at that point?

As much as I love ST, I don't know very much about the behind the scenes stuff other than a few odd details here and there.

[El Barto]

As I understand he was less involved in the day to day after the first season, but his lackey's were still on hand making sure His vision was respected. Berman was taking more and more responsibility making it work. By the third season it was Berman's show.

Interestingly, it seems that Paramount didn't declare TNG to be profitable until after Roddenberry's death, and then promptly paid his wife the thirty million he had coming. Apparently they just really didn't want him to get it.    A whole lot of people really thought he was s dick.

[Adami]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

While this is true, Voyager owes its existence to TNG. You had to have those cringe worthy opening seasons of TNG (to establish themselves, and work a lot of kinks out) to ever dream of getting the relatively smooth running Voyager, and the absolutely brilliant DS9. Had either one of those shows been the reintroduction of ST, they would have had the same problems in the beginning that TNG did.

This is very true, but it doesn't make TNG better. Being first doesn't equate being better.

I think TNG is better but not because it set the way. I think it has lower lows than Voyager but it has much higher highs and a more consistent middle throughout. DS9 is still the best, but even that had some of the worst episodes ever.

[soupytwist]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

I'd agree that TNG struggled on it's first season.  But I'd also say Voyager had a rough start too, I'd take Season 2 of TNG over Season 2 of Voyager (The Kazon season).   From that point onwards both shows got better, but the much more enjoyable cast/characters on TNG gives it a large edge for me over Voyager.

One of Voyagers biggest problems (outside it's boring characters) was it pretty much resolved the Federation Maquis feud in it's first episode.  This uneasy balance of power should have played out at least over the first season.

[Polarbear]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

I'd agree that TNG struggled on it's first season.  But I'd also say Voyager had a rough start too, I'd take Season 2 of TNG over Season 2 of Voyager (The Kazon season).   From that point onwards both shows got better, but the much more enjoyable cast/characters on TNG gives it a large edge for me over Voyager.

One of Voyagers biggest problems (outside it's boring characters) was it pretty much resolved the Federation Maquis feud in it's first episode.  This uneasy balance of power should have played out at least over the first season.

Voyager and TNG were equally bad during their early seasons.

TNG found it's momentum during season 3, and Voyager turned around after the Scorpion two-parter.

I'd say DS9 was the most consistently good trek show, from the start.

[soupytwist]

There are way to many dud characters in Voyager for it to top TNG.   The only character on Voyager i'd take over TNG version would be the Doc.  (yeah even Wes > Neelix).

Voyager was much better out of the gate ( as they say ). S1 of TNG is nearly unwatchable now. It's extremely 80s. the constant synthy score, the camera work, the acting.

It's really bad. S2 is slightly better but S3 is where it took off. Voyager is much easier to watch from the get go.

I'd agree that TNG struggled on it's first season.  But I'd also say Voyager had a rough start too, I'd take Season 2 of TNG over Season 2 of Voyager (The Kazon season).   From that point onwards both shows got better, but the much more enjoyable cast/characters on TNG gives it a large edge for me over Voyager.

One of Voyagers biggest problems (outside it's boring characters) was it pretty much resolved the Federation Maquis feud in it's first episode.  This uneasy balance of power should have played out at least over the first season.

Voyager and TNG were equally bad during their early seasons.

TNG found it's momentum during season 3, and Voyager turned around after the Scorpion two-parter.

I'd say DS9 was the most consistently good trek show, from the start.

Yup.  Although I rate Sisko as the worst Captain, mostly down to Averys weird acting.

[El Barto]

Had no idea this existed 'til I watched it last night. https://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/William_Shatner_Presents:_Chaos_on_the_Bridge

It's Shatner's documentary on the creation of TNG and the behind the scenes pandemonium of the first two seasons. The documentary is pretty bad, not a fan of the editing, but it's pretty insightful. For the most part they all liked Roddenberry, even if his convictions screwed everything all to hell. They had 30 writers up and quite during that time. It was his lackeys that were despised. In any event, the show changed fundamentally after the second season when GR was marginalized and his minions were run off.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I've seen that.  I thought it was pretty entertaining, and I learned a lot.

[Samsara]

Like many born in the mid-late 1970s, I cut my teeth on the original cast movies, and The Next Generation TV series. The problem for me was TNG movies weren't nearly as good as the films with the original cast. TNG (the series) was by far superior (to me) than TOS. But TNG just didn't come across as well on the big screen, for whatever reason.

Insurrection wasn't bad -- but it did feel way more like an extended episode, in comparison to Generations and First Contact, which I thought were good films (Generations more than FC). Agreed with Blob, who I believe said Nemesis is what killed it. I think the premise was good, I think Hardy is a really good actor, but it just didn't work.

Since then, I think Paramount has been spinning its wheels. DS9 was a good series, but rightly never cut out for a major film (the extended book series was good, but got a little too long in the tooth). Voyager was them trying a female Captain with the same premise as TOS -- and it didn't work for me. It just felt ridiculous (not a woman captain, just talking the series as a whole). Enterprise was a colossal failure, that tried to jump on the whole prequel trend.

The rebooted alternate timeline movies haven't really felt like Star Trek, and I think the rebooted cast thing is stupid.

Discovery -- now, I haven't focused in on it, except to know it is an original series, from some point forward from the original continuity (TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager). But I have to say, it will have to be EXCEPTIONAL to draw me back in as a big fan. I was a huge TNG collector, which hundreds of carded action figures, ships, the entire series on video (DVD/Blu-ray), magazines, you name it. I just stored all of that stuff over the last few months. My wife tells me the person in charge of Discovery is really good, and I will keep an open mind. But I just don't have a lot of faith it will be pulled off well.

The fanboy in me wants to see TNG again. As a limited run. Something like how X-Files is doing now. Six or eight episodes a year. It can be done, and done well. But I am sure Paramount won't go for it. Not with them greenlighting Discovery. Another thing that has me annoyed -- I don't have a link, but I read last week an interview with Frakes, where he said he reached out to help on Discovery, to direct or help write some episodes, and they haven't even returned his calls.

That's such b.s., if you ask me.

So I am pretty soured on Star Trek at this point, unfortunately.

[Adami]

So Doug Jones and Anthony Rapp have joined Discovery.

Good news! Not enough to get me excited, but this is positive news nonetheless.

[BlobVanDam]

Doug Jones is the only one I know out of the announce cast so far, but I'm happy with that choice. And of course he's playing an alien.