Author Topic: Star Trek: Thread Space 9  (Read 275009 times)

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Online Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3465 on: December 30, 2021, 09:04:26 AM »
On episode 5 now. Was out of town for a bit.

Ugh. The opening with the USS Janeway and the USS T'Pau was painful. Surprised the USS Bones, the USS Spock, and the USS Holographic Doctor weren't there to help.
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Online El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3466 on: December 30, 2021, 09:27:36 AM »
Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?

Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3467 on: December 30, 2021, 09:28:13 AM »
Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?

Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.

The previous and current season are set I think like 1000 years after TNG.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3468 on: December 30, 2021, 01:20:25 PM »
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes.   The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.

Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3469 on: December 30, 2021, 02:13:40 PM »
It’s just extremely tired and unrealistic that Michael HAS to be the one with the speech or heroics. If anything she should face a court martial every other episode. Not to mention it’s baffling the level of loyalty the crew shows her given she consistently bucks the system and is rogue in her decision making.

Anyway…..I can’t imagine this gets renewed for another season. It’s a bummer because I’d really love to see a new, good, Star Trek show.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3470 on: December 30, 2021, 02:32:14 PM »
Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?

Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.

They time jumped in season 2, 1000 years into the future.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3471 on: December 30, 2021, 03:38:00 PM »
It’s just extremely tired and unrealistic that Michael HAS to be the one with the speech or heroics. If anything she should face a court martial every other episode. Not to mention it’s baffling the level of loyalty the crew shows her given she consistently bucks the system and is rogue in her decision making.

Anyway…..I can’t imagine this gets renewed for another season. It’s a bummer because I’d really love to see a new, good, Star Trek show.

This season especially just seems....so uncompelling. I mean....I get the plot of an artificial.......something....that will destroy the universe....or whatever, but what about the characters? The only thing they seem to want us to care about thus far is the computer having emotions, which is being handled in SUCH a casual and silly way that I can't take it seriously. I mean even when whatever his name is lost his planet, they just don't seem to be paying it much attention other than in the background. It's just a bunch of  2 dimensional characters trying to solve a meaningless mystery since they've done this EVERY season thus far. We know they will figure out the blah blah blah and save the whatever and Michael will be the only person who can do it and they will learn something about friendship and family. It's just hard to care.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3472 on: December 30, 2021, 10:43:30 PM »
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes.   The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.

Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.

Fair enough. I've not seen it so was only going off the reviews, maybe it's being overrated as it was apparently written by one of the BSG remake writers.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3473 on: December 31, 2021, 07:19:44 AM »
It’s just extremely tired and unrealistic that Michael HAS to be the one with the speech or heroics. If anything she should face a court martial every other episode. Not to mention it’s baffling the level of loyalty the crew shows her given she consistently bucks the system and is rogue in her decision making.

Anyway…..I can’t imagine this gets renewed for another season. It’s a bummer because I’d really love to see a new, good, Star Trek show.

This season especially just seems....so uncompelling. I mean....I get the plot of an artificial.......something....that will destroy the universe....or whatever, but what about the characters? The only thing they seem to want us to care about thus far is the computer having emotions, which is being handled in SUCH a casual and silly way that I can't take it seriously. I mean even when whatever his name is lost his planet, they just don't seem to be paying it much attention other than in the background. It's just a bunch of  2 dimensional characters trying to solve a meaningless mystery since they've done this EVERY season thus far. We know they will figure out the blah blah blah and save the whatever and Michael will be the only person who can do it and they will learn something about friendship and family. It's just hard to care.

You articulated perfectly how I feel about this season of Discovery.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3474 on: December 31, 2021, 07:46:57 AM »
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes.   The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.

Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.

Fair enough. I've not seen it so was only going off the reviews, maybe it's being overrated as it was apparently written by one of the BSG remake writers.

The episode in question wasn't awful, just boring. I can see the BSG stuff, but what made BSG work wasn't just the sci-fi tech talk, it was the setting, the characters, the overall story, etc. This episode had all the sci-fi tech talk of BSG but none of the other stuff. It honestly felt 2 hours long despite being regular length. Ah well.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3475 on: December 31, 2021, 09:02:49 AM »
So, not so shockingly, I had a lot of problems with the mid-season finale, but the one that really stuck with me was the response Cronenberg gave to Stamets about Zora. The idea that Cronenberg would have kicked Stamets off the ship if he didn't fully accept what is OBVIOUSLY a dangerous situation just seems like the most shallow and awful representation of modern liberalism. I am a liberal, but this was just dumb. Don't fully 100% support a god damn sentient computer that is COMPLETELY in charge of Discovery that has shown tendency to ignore people and do whatever she wants, not understand her own emotions, and act irrationally? YOU'RE GONE YOU RACIST PIECE OF CRAP! Don't try to work with people you don't agree with, don't try to learn, don't try to compromise, accept fully or get the hell out of town. It's sad that THIS is the aspect of modern liberalism that Discovery felt the need to preach as human evolution.

God dammit I feel like Stadler and now I need to shower.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3476 on: December 31, 2021, 09:43:41 AM »
Maybe I'm just being dense, but how can a show set well before TOS have a ship named after a captain that won't be born for hundreds of years?

Also, Memory Alpha is really becoming a train wreck at this point. I'm not sure what choice there was in the matter, but having competing and conflicting universes really makes the thing hard to follow. Case in point, the number of Constitution class starships built, which seems to be greater in the past than it was in TOS.

They time jumped in season 2, 1000 years into the future.
Yeah, I get that. I just figured they went back the next season so they could do something different. Like maybe go back to prehistoric Earth and muck about with history or something. I assumed they'd do a different nonsensical universe each season. I didn't assume a show set before ST would basically turn into a show set in the 29th century.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3477 on: December 31, 2021, 10:02:23 AM »
Ah, Gotcha.  I don't know if it's just me but I don't like when a streaming service releases one show a week.  What sets the streaming services over TV is the fact you can binge.  I should get over it since that's how I grew up watching TV but it bother's me these days.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3478 on: December 31, 2021, 03:54:17 PM »
I rewatched First Contact for the first time in a while.

Still good.  Although Alfre Woodard was annoying as hell.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3479 on: January 01, 2022, 01:25:40 AM »
Haven't been watching Season 4 of disco because it's not available in the UK right now, but I'm keeping an eye on the reviews of the individual episodes.   The latest episode 'Stormy Weather' seems to being hailed of something of a classic and Discos best episode yet.

Definitely not. Super boring and just quite....poor. Yes, it's more "sci fi" than anything else, but it's still just not very compelling or well written.

Fair enough. I've not seen it so was only going off the reviews, maybe it's being overrated as it was apparently written by one of the BSG remake writers.

The episode in question wasn't awful, just boring. I can see the BSG stuff, but what made BSG work wasn't just the sci-fi tech talk, it was the setting, the characters, the overall story, etc. This episode had all the sci-fi tech talk of BSG but none of the other stuff. It honestly felt 2 hours long despite being regular length. Ah well.

BSG was great for 2 and a bit Seasons, setting up loads of mystery boxes - unfortunately it decided to resolve most of the mysteries by religious, spiritual 'magic' means, which completely ruined the show for me.  It even tried to right the wrongs with 'The Plan' movie but that made things even worse!

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3480 on: January 01, 2022, 10:17:55 AM »
Some of the Q episodes are pretty weak, but plenty are very good. I can't call him a shit actor or a chit character on the basis of his better episodes. Tapestry is one of my favorites of the series, and AGT was certainly the ultimate way to wrap things up. I don't like him in the comedy episodes, Q-Pid and Q and the Grey are terrible, but when he's being sinister he's very good. He also shows excellent development throughout the series (which they burn in the subsequent series).

I await to see his excellent episodes, so far he's only been an unfunny troll, nothing's worse than that :lol

I wanna weigh in on the "worst character" discussion from a few pages ago, even though I'm not really qualified since I only saw TOS and 4 seasons of TNG so far.

When it comes to the TNG main cast, I don't think there are bad characters per se, just bad performances from actors. I think the premise for each of these characters had something fundamentally interesting to me, it's just that this somethings were mishandled in the first 3 seasons by 80% of the writers being shitty 80's TV writers.

At first I thought I could easily exclude Picard and Data , but then I realized even they could have fallen victims to that discussion if it weren't for the strength of the actors portraying them. There was nothing special about Picard for the first few seasons, just a righteous and compassionate leader. A ton of actors from that era could have played it lame and boring as fuck. It was Patrick Stewart's mannerisms and general acting skills that made Picard what he was, helped him endure the bad writing and weak character-development along the initial seasons. Same could be said about Data IMO, an android -so you can imagine what an average actor of the era could have done with that- and an obvious attempt to re-create the Spock experience, yet he took it and flew with it in a cool direction.

Geordi seems to me like the character with the least fundamentally-interesting aspects at the baseline, the genius buddy who's awkward with women, yet I find him way more tolerable than Beverly or Troi. I think it's that the actor plays it with a casual approach and a kind of warmth that made the character relatable and thus likeable to me. The actor makes him a real character, like when he goes on about technical stuff, I buy his display of knowledge and eagerness to research. 

The actors playing Beverly or Troi are just horrible, no redeeming qualities, just plain fuckin horrible, even though both characters have very interesting aspects and potential, ON PAPER. Kinda nasty but I remember Pamela Anderson saying in the 90's that she had to fuck her way to the top until she got to star in her own TV show cause that's just how things work, I imagine these two had to have done some services to be on TNG, either that or they were just incredibly cheap to hire. But what I don't get is why stick with them after the show became a hit? They're such fish out of water in most of seasons 4 and 5, their weakness drags amazing episodes back, just by their on-screen presence. Yet they continue to give them lines and even episodes that revolves around them! It may just be that back then TV writers did not have nearly as much feedback from the audience as they do now, to let them know what's working and what's not.
Same could be said of the human Lego O'Brien but I'm trying to focus on the main cast, but god damn how I face palm whenever they shove that dipshit and his fuckin wife in my face.

Then there's Riker; if y'all recall I really disliked that character for the longest time since I started watching TNG. I would've put him in the same league as Troi and Beverly, but That actor improved significantly every season, he clearly worked on himself constantly. By season 5, I no longer see him as a cheap Kirk-knockoff. He still does that dumb surprised raise of eyebrows along with a smile when a woman says something cute, but it's less annoying now for some reason heh. He also stopped making silly super hero poses on full body shots :lol. His delivery of his lines got significantly more grounded too.

Wesley was another victim to bad writing. I mean yeah the actor has the charisma of an empty can of RC Cola, but I mean.. kids, he might have grown into a better actor, but he was seriously and permanently damaged by the writers choices and the way the character started out. Case in point; a couple of episodes ago for me, The First Duty, he did a fine job, it was a great episode tbh.

Worf doesn't fit into that discussion I think, cause that character was just inherently fascinating, I don't think there would be a way to fuck it up.

I'm enjoying season 5 so much that I'm seriously considering starting it over after I'm done, I know it's ridiculous.

I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3481 on: January 01, 2022, 10:26:05 AM »
Random thought: a few pages ago someone had said that Worf frequently gets beaten up. I noticed Worf doesn't just get beat up, he gets thrown clear across the room, almost every time :lol
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 10:37:01 AM by Progmetty »
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Online El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3482 on: January 01, 2022, 11:39:53 AM »
I'm enjoying season 5 so much that I'm seriously considering starting it over after I'm done, I know it's ridiculous.
At this point, Deep Space 9 had just started. There were three seasons where they overlap. An argument could be made that you should be watching both right now, but that would be a helluva undertaking. Knowing what the rest of us know now, you'll be better off getting right into DS9 when you wrap up TNG, though.

Also, I guess that means you're through with O'Brien. His farewell scene was in DS9, but he should be out of TNG for good. And for what it's worth, his Everyman nature works great in DS9. He's part of the main cast there and the show wouldn't be the same without him. Something that may help make him more likeable is to consider how he fits into the Starfleet universe. He's a career enlisted man. He's surrounded by all of these people who went to the Academy hoping to be a starship captain some day, making first contact and battling ethical conundrums. O'Brien just wants to work 9-5 and go home to his family. He kind of bridges the gap between Federation idealism and normal, real life people. He's a total outlier.

As for the actors/characters, in ST series I always found the lines blurred so much that they're hard to separate. The reality is that Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart, and plenty of others you've never heard of define the characters they create. Shatner is Kirk. Stewart is Picard. Whether they're good actors or not they work because the characters they portray posses the same qualities their acting brings to it. Spiner is a terrible actor, but he was brilliant with Data because he portrayed him in a way that was natural for him. He played him to his own strengths, which is what they all do. (His lack of talent comes into focus seeing him play 25 other Soong type characters.) To this point, Sirtis and McFadden didn't have to blow their way to the top (TNG was hardly the Everest of acting gigs in 1987, BTW). They were simply naturals at being the whiny/milquetoast characters Roddenberry was looking for.

Also, Wil Wheaton is actually fairly charismatic. After being the most despised character in ST for quite some time (until Neelix came along), he's quietly made a career out of just being a pretty cool dude.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3483 on: January 01, 2022, 12:48:08 PM »
I'm enjoying season 5 so much that I'm seriously considering starting it over after I'm done, I know it's ridiculous.
At this point, Deep Space 9 had just started. There were three seasons where they overlap. An argument could be made that you should be watching both right now, but that would be a helluva undertaking. Knowing what the rest of us know now, you'll be better off getting right into DS9 when you wrap up TNG, though.

Glad you brought that up, I had no idea they overlapped! I've been anxious about running out of TNG and spacing out my viewing to make it last, so going back and forth between the two series sounds perfect in my case!
I just checked the dates though, I'm not there just yet, latest TNG episode I've seen aired on May 4th, 1992. DS9 pilot aired on January 4th, 1993, which barely lines up with season 6 episode 12 of TNG.

Also, I guess that means you're through with O'Brien. His farewell scene was in DS9, but he should be out of TNG for good. And for what it's worth, his Everyman nature works great in DS9. He's part of the main cast there and the show wouldn't be the same without him. Something that may help make him more likeable is to consider how he fits into the Starfleet universe. He's a career enlisted man. He's surrounded by all of these people who went to the Academy hoping to be a starship captain some day, making first contact and battling ethical conundrums. O'Brien just wants to work 9-5 and go home to his family. He kind of bridges the gap between Federation idealism and normal, real life people. He's a total outlier.

I see the appeal of that for sure, I just don't like the actor at all. His marriage and integration of his family into the show were also so flimsy and unbelievable for me.

As for the actors/characters, in ST series I always found the lines blurred so much that they're hard to separate. The reality is that Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart, and plenty of others you've never heard of define the characters they create. Shatner is Kirk. Stewart is Picard. Whether they're good actors or not they work because the characters they portray posses the same qualities their acting brings to it. Spiner is a terrible actor, but he was brilliant with Data because he portrayed him in a way that was natural for him. He played him to his own strengths, which is what they all do. (His lack of talent comes into focus seeing him play 25 other Soong type characters.) To this point, Sirtis and McFadden didn't have to blow their way to the top (TNG was hardly the Everest of acting gigs in 1987, BTW). They were simply naturals at being the whiny/milquetoast characters Roddenberry was looking for.

Definitely agree about Shatner, Nimoy and Stewart. But it's also a matter of personal perception as well. Like, something's gotta be said for Picard being the second Patrick Stewart character for me after being very well acquainted with professor Xavier for 20 years or so, watching the X-Men movies numerous times over then seeing him as a different character on TNG and totally buying his performance. I wonder if the same would have been the case if I saw T.J. Hooker before TOS, I think most probably not.

Also, Wil Wheaton is actually fairly charismatic. After being the most despised character in ST for quite some time (until Neelix came along), he's quietly made a career out of just being a pretty cool dude.

Oh totally, I was just talking about him as a kid on TNG.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3484 on: January 01, 2022, 07:28:53 PM »
I just checked the dates though, I'm not there just yet, latest TNG episode I've seen aired on May 4th, 1992. DS9 pilot aired on January 4th, 1993, which barely lines up with season 6 episode 12 of TNG.
I'll be damned. I thought there was a whole lot more overlap than that. I guess Worf not showing up on DS9 until S4 threw me, as well as DS9 and VOY both having not quite 3 years of overlap. Looking at the episodes, though, DS9 would have begun right after the 2-parter Chain of Command, which makes perfect sense.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3485 on: January 02, 2022, 08:51:57 AM »
I'm into Discovery Season 2, and still wondering why I'm sticking with this show.  It started okay, with Captain Pike taking over command and a seeming return to something like the "adventure of the week" storytelling of classic Trek.  They even brought back the TOS music.  We went to a planet with something weird going on, solved the issue, moved on, even the though story itself managed to fit into what is apparently this season's theme (seven red things).  Meanwhile, something's going on with Spock, the Klingon's are still having their reunification issues, Tilly is being visited by the ghost of a friend from junior high.  Cool, nice balance.  We can have an adventure of the week and still have ongoing arcs.  We can have nice things.

The episode we just watched was all missing Spock (I don't care because they haven't set anything up properly), Klingon issues (still don't care), fucking Ash Tyler and whether he's Voq or Ash or human or Klingon (still don't care), and Tilly's imaginary ghost friend is apparently an alien (I almost care, but she's so damned annoying that I wish she'd just go away (the ghost friend, not Tilly)).  All that shit and 0% adventure of the week.  Oh, and "Emperor" Georgiou is apparently helping the Klingons with their issues?  Sorry, still don't care.  What the fuck is going on with this show?

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3486 on: January 05, 2022, 12:32:53 PM »
Yeah, I get that. I just figured they went back the next season so they could do something different. Like maybe go back to prehistoric Earth and muck about with history or something. I assumed they'd do a different nonsensical universe each season. I didn't assume a show set before ST would basically turn into a show set in the 29th century.


The original plan for the show was an anthology series where each subsequent season would be set in a later time period.  But that was a couple of show-runners ago, and they seem to have just decided to skip to the end.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3487 on: January 05, 2022, 12:36:00 PM »
Yeah, I get that. I just figured they went back the next season so they could do something different. Like maybe go back to prehistoric Earth and muck about with history or something. I assumed they'd do a different nonsensical universe each season. I didn't assume a show set before ST would basically turn into a show set in the 29th century.


The original plan for the show was an anthology series where each subsequent season would be set in a later time period.  But that was a couple of show-runners ago, and they seem to have just decided to skip to the end.


I remember that! I was actually excited about a new ST show that was an anthology. Each season a different cast/ship (I assume ship at least) to tell one season stories. Instead we got.......this.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3488 on: January 05, 2022, 12:52:57 PM »
Instead we got.......this.

It all starts with casting and Sonequa Martin-Green, and as serviceable as an actress as she is, just isn't lead material. She's simply secondary character quality. From there....I can honestly say that there isn't one actor/actress that is compelling or really all that good on the show.

Anson Mount was awesome as Pike and that's why the episodes he was involved in were tolerable and somewhat compelling.....because he's a grade A actor. Even Michelle Yeoh was pretty good as Cpt. Philipa Georgiou and made a character you could get into in spite of the horrible writing. Literally the rest of the characters and the actors/actresses that play them are forgettable and at most times cringe worthy.

I only continue on with the show out of being compelled to 'want' to like it because I like the genre and Star Trek in general.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3489 on: January 05, 2022, 12:59:54 PM »
I'd say it all starts with the writing. While a better actress could've brought bad writing to better life, it's still just poor story telling. Michael isn't very good, I agree, but I blame the writing for all of this.

And I think Saru is actually well done. Though I'm a fan of Doug Jones.

Patrick Stewart is a phenomenal actor, and even he couldn't save his own show. The writing for modern Trek is just bad. I wish it weren't, but it just really is. With some exceptions. 
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3490 on: January 05, 2022, 01:08:24 PM »
I'd say it all starts with the writing. While a better actress could've brought bad writing to better life, it's still just poor story telling. Michael isn't very good, I agree, but I blame the writing for all of this.

And I think Saru is actually well done. Though I'm a fan of Doug Jones.

Patrick Stewart is a phenomenal actor, and even he couldn't save his own show. The writing for modern Trek is just bad. I wish it weren't, but it just really is. With some exceptions.

Yeah....I can agree with that as well. Good point about the Picard show. IF I had to pic a character that isn't horrible it'd be Saru but the problem is he's just buried with all the ancillary silliness and horrible writing/story.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3491 on: January 05, 2022, 02:37:23 PM »
I'm nowhere near Discovery yet but I'm already feeling iffy about it. The idea of any Star Trek that takes place before TOS sounds severely uninteresting to me. Unless maybe you make a limited series that tells the story of events leading up to establishing the Federation, or the separation of Vulcans and Romulans, or any kind of major event like that.


All right, so I'm done with season 5, sans for the finale, which I won't watch cause I didn't bring the season 6 BR box with me to work and I don't wanna be left hanging until I go home next week.
What can I say about this season, as near perfection as a modern TV season can get, for a 2.5x the amount of episodes of most modern TV seasons, to have as few duds as that, is an incredible thing IMO.

For shits and giggles, if this was a modern 10 episode TV season I'd make it as:

1. Redemption (1.5 hrs season premiere)
2. Silicon Avatar
3. Conundrum
4. Ethics
5. The Outcast
6. Cause & Effect
7. The First Duty
8. The Perfect Mate
9. I, Borg
10. The Inner Light
 
I know, the Spock episodes are not on there. I enjoyed seeing him on TNG but Unification wasn't my cup of tea. Although it's worth mentioning that I'm glad I stopped before watching it to see the rest of the TOS movies.

I, Borg though, the fuck guys, the fuck! What a beauty!

Seems more so in Borg episodes; I find myself inserting myself into the dialogue often:

Quote
Riker: One survivor. It's a Borg. Male, adolescent. He's badly hurt.
Data: Sir, there is no indication of other Borg activity within sensor range.
Picard: Away team, prepare to return to the ship.
Me: Yep, go, go, go.
Crusher: Captain, we can't
Me: What.. what "we can't"?
Crusher: Leave him here. He won't survive.
Riker: I think the Captain understands that.
Crusher: I don't.
Me: Fuck you!
Riker: The Borg usually collect their dead.
Crusher: He's not dead.
Me: *face-palm*
Riker: The transmission that we intercepted was probably a homing signal. We have to assume they're on their way.
Crusher: Let me at least stabilise his condition, give him a chance of surviving until they get here.
Me: Bitch you gonna get everybody kiiiiiiiillleeed!!
Picard: Your concern is noted, Doctor, but any intervention on our part would alert the Borg to our having been here.
Me: Thank you sir!
Crusher: I'm afraid we've turned that corner already.
Me: No, we haven't!!
Worf: Kill it now. Make it appear that it died in the crash. Leave no evidence that we were ever here.
Me: What the Klingon said.
Picard: Security measures must be taken before we beam it on board.
Me: God damn it..

But all kidding aside, I love how the episode took me all the way from one side of the issue to the other. They did find an individual inside the creature, guided out to the surface by empathy and compassion. I was all the way team Guinan and Picard and I changed as they changed, the episode didn't force it's reality or ideals on me, it convinced me.

So much great dialogue here..

Quote
Let me tell you something. When that kid's big brothers come looking for him, they're not going to stop until they find him. And then they're going to come looking for us, and they will destroy us. And they will not do any of the soul-searching that you are apparently doing right now.  - Guinan to LaForge

Quote
Guinan: Resistance is futile..
Borg: Resistance is futile.
Guinan: It isn't. My people resisted when the Borg came to assimilate us. Some of us survived.
Borg: Resistance is not futile?
Guinan: No. But thanks to you, there are very few of us left. We're scattered throughout the galaxy. We don't even have a home any more.
Borg: What you are saying is that you are lonely.
Guinan: What?
Borg: You have no others. You have no home. We are also lonely.

I'm not crying, you're crying!

Quote
Guinan: If you're going to use this person..
Picard: It's not a person, damn it, it's a Borg!
Guinan: If you are going to use this person to destroy his race, you should at least look him in the eye once before you do it. Because I am not sure he is still a Borg.
Picard: Because it's been given a name by a member of my crew doesn't mean it's not a Borg. Because it's young doesn't mean that it's innocent. It is what it is, and in spite of efforts to turn it into some kind of pet I will not alter my plans.

Shit ton of interesting ideas to explore here. A good instance being double-talk, the implant will cause "total systems failure", instead of straight calling it what it is, genocide. And Beverly calls it out, to her credit. Ken Ray of Mission Log said it reminded him of how we use "the threat has been neutralized", simply cause it's easier on us than saying "I killed the guy".
"There are no civilians among the Borg.", Picard's right. And I agreed when he said it. But it's such a dangerous way to think of an enemy at war, it essentially gives you moral justification, to yourself and your people, for whatever vicious gruesome action you wanna take.

Still though, I go back to what Guinan said to Geordi, the Borg wouldn't have done any of this "soul-searching" if they'd come back to find the Enterprise there. So you're left contemplating whether you wanna die ethical or stoop down to your enemy's level and live.

Much more to talk about here but I gotta go. One last thing, when Hugh is reunited with the Borg and about to beam away and he turns to look at Geordi one last time.. powerful moment.
It would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.

Quote
Picard: But you are Borg.
Borg: No. I am Hugh.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3492 on: January 05, 2022, 02:45:44 PM »
For shits and giggles, if this was a modern 10 episode TV season I'd make it as:

1. Redemption (1.5 hrs season premiere)
2. Silicon Avatar
3. Conundrum
4. Ethics
5. The Outcast
6. Cause & Effect
7. The First Duty
8. The Perfect Mate
9. I, Borg
10. The Inner Light
Yeah, you and I have starkly different opinions on ST.  :lol


Quote
It would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.
Be careful what you wish for.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3493 on: January 05, 2022, 03:52:53 PM »
Quote
It would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.
Be careful what you wish for.

Yea....prepare for a real descent in quality.





Alright, I'll leave now.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3494 on: January 05, 2022, 05:42:11 PM »
Quote
It would be interesting to find out how Hugh factors in at the next Borg encounter, really looking forward to that, I really hope they don't abandon that story.
Be careful what you wish for.

Yea....prepare for a real descent in quality.





Alright, I'll leave now.
Be sure to put the most worthless person you know in charge on your way out the door.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3495 on: January 05, 2022, 06:10:01 PM »
But Alex Kurtzman is already in charge.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3496 on: January 05, 2022, 06:14:58 PM »
But Alex Kurtzman is already in charge.
Huh. I wonder which one has more experience making Star Trek suck?  :lol
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3497 on: January 07, 2022, 07:18:22 AM »
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3498 on: January 07, 2022, 07:20:42 AM »
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Yea, that took me by surprise as well. I was like "They're still filming season 2? I guess it's just some....oh it's season 3!"

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #3499 on: January 07, 2022, 07:33:47 AM »
Just read that S3 of PICARD has been halted due to four dozen positive covid cases between cast and crew. The surprising thing to me is that they were filming S3 already? Guess with Stewarts age they want to bank as much Cpt. Picard as possible.

Yea, that took me by surprise as well. I was like "They're still filming season 2? I guess it's just some....oh it's season 3!"

Clearly the people running the show are just oblivious as to what is going on. I can't imagine a season of Trek as poorly received as Picard season 1 was and now they've gone ahead with season 3 without even seeing the feedback to season 2?

I felt horrible for Patrick Stewart while watching S1. HE couldn't even save that......
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