Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Kotowboy]

.

[jammindude]

So then I’m wrong.

Or is it Stadler?

[Adami]

Could you?

Well I said it so It must be wrong.

I mean, you’d think my own statement in your sig would buy me some credit but I guess not.

[soupytwist]

Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human.  The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.

[Kotowboy]

Plus cynical me thinks Brent went to Rick Berman and David Carson and went " Everyone knows i'm a funny guy - i think Data should be funny in the movie...And I can sing...Data needs to sing too. "

Brent in real life just seems to love himself. He's one of those awful narcissists who thinks they're a comedian but they're just annoying.

[El Barto]

Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human.  The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.

The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.

[jammindude]

Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human.  The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.

The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.

And yet when they did do one movie that was essentially not a movie but a fantastic two-part episode (Insurrection…and yes, that was an extremely popular criticism, that it felt too much like a great episode and not so great movie) people ragged on it non stop.

Full disclosure, that’s my favorite ST film for exactly the reasons everyone else hated it.

[El Barto]

Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human.  The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.

The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.

And yet when they did do one movie that was essentially not a movie but a fantastic two-part episode (Insurrection…and yes, that was an extremely popular criticism, that it felt too much like a great episode and not so great movie) people ragged on it non stop.

Full disclosure, that’s my favorite ST film for exactly the reasons everyone else hated it.

I liked Insurrection better than most of their movies. The fact that it was a two-part episode is a big reason why. It still suffered from the same problem as the other movies, though. None of the characters were really the same from the series. Picard goes rogue. The crew all behave like teenagers. Data remains a clown. Like I said, they just can't leave well enough alone.

[jammindude]

Do you realize that most of that behavior is explained in the plot line. The effects of the briar patch and all that…

[Kotowboy]

For my money - the most TNG movie of the lot is Generations. They literally started filming it two days after finishing All Good Things.

Apart from Over acting Data - all the characters are essentially the same and the Enterprise looks GREAT.

It actually deals with a weird space anomaly and not Die Hard in Space like First Contact and Nemesis.

[El Barto]

Do you realize that most of that behavior is explained in the plot line. The effects of the briar patch and all that…

Of course I do. They just bothered to make an excuse for it this time. Still the same phenomenon.

[Kotowboy]

You just reminded me how much I hate 'fore-shadowing' in a film.

I LOVE Edgar Wright but boy does he LOVE foreshadowing.

For example in Baby Driver - the villain dies by falling off a building in a car. Earlier in the film - Our Protagonist 'Baby' is playing with toy cars and one rolls off the table top.

And you're supposed to go oooh so clever !!

No. Once he'd figured out how he was gonna end the film - it would literally take 30 seconds to go back into a previous scene and write " toy car falls off table ".

It's not clever at all but it makes the director think he is.

/Rant.

[El Barto]

Apart from Over acting Data - all the characters are essentially the same and the Enterprise looks GREAT.

Right up until Troi crashes it into a planet. 

That movie demonstrates numerous pet peeves of mine very well. One is that whenever there's a battle raging they all have to shout over the music. The ship falling apart around them doesn't actually make much noise. Also, they always have to use the same core people for everything that happens. Was Troi really the best choice to be piloting the ship in the middle of a battle? VOY was terrible about this. "Oh no, the Borg are attacking. Better get Neelix up here!" Third is constantly recycling bad guys to keep familiarity. Aren't there any badguy Klingons that aren't part of the Duras clan?

[Kotowboy]

Ugh I hate "characters can somehow whisper to each other in an extremely noisy situation because it's a poignant scene".

[Progmetty]

All right, I'm all quarantined up on COVID and I'm watching at an accelerated rate, so I can't do justice to the episode by episode remarks thing. Shame, I had fun typing it up the last couple of posts.

Random thoughts though:
- I liked Reunion, shame Worf's hot half-human girlfriend was killed.
When Picard went to see K'mpec and the latter asked him to "arbitrate the struggle for power" over who leads the Klingon empire and Picard declines; K'mpec seems to find that answer unexpected or unwarranted for some reason. Picard looked like if it wasn't for diplomacy he would have said "Because your people are assholes and will spend hours yelling at me during normal conversations, it's what you do"

- A lot of what I thought of Future Imperfect is similar to Remember Me. Again, I tried to figure out what's going on with Riker before the reveal, failed, then found their explanation too silly. The resolve made it obvious they just wanted to show me that alternate world of the Enterprise 16 years later, which is an interesting premise visually and would have been cool if the resolve -again- wasn't so silly and weakly written. It would have actually worked if they left at the whole "Romulan seeking secret Federation base location" deal.
It was cool to see Geordi without his VISOR, I don't think I've seen the actor's eyes before.
Hey things sure are different in the 24th century, but in the 21st; it used to be a kiss ass move to name your kid after your boss heh

- Final Mission, bye bye Wesley? are you bluffing TNG?! Good episode though, the kid did good.
The scenes in the cave were very reminiscent of some TOS stuff. While the stuff out in the desert looked beautiful IMO.   

[soupytwist]

Datas 'emotion chip' felt like the writers noticing they were coming to the end of the show and panicking as the realised they had done absolutely nothing with Data becoming more human.  The emotion chip was a lazy device just so they could say they revolved his arc.

The emotion chip in the series was a great idea, in that they explored it but never really used it (save for Descent, which is very likely the dumbest thing they ever did in the entire franchise). It was the movies where they felt they needed to turn him into something else, just as they did with the rest of the crew. He became a joke character, much like Scotty in the TOS movies. Movie TNG just couldn't stand to leave anything alone insofar as established characters go. And by giving Spiner an opportunity to essentially play a new character they demonstrated, yet again, how bad he is at it.

And yet when they did do one movie that was essentially not a movie but a fantastic two-part episode (Insurrection…and yes, that was an extremely popular criticism, that it felt too much like a great episode and not so great movie) people ragged on it non stop.

Full disclosure, that’s my favorite ST film for exactly the reasons everyone else hated it.

I have lots of problems with Insurrection, lets look at the Baku for instance they couldn’t share the planet (a planet they aren't indigenous too) with anyone who didn’t share their values. The whole planet. There’s only 600 of them in one isolated valley and they couldn’t even spare one lousy hemisphere. So they kicked the Son’a out (who for some reason didn’t just immediately land on the other side of the planet). But when you live on a magic planet that makes you immortal, exile is a slow death sentence. That’s our tolerant and loving people, so intolerant and bloodthirsty they will murder anyone who holds different ideals. A race that have rejected technology except for the technology they need to crush their enemies. And then they just swan about, watching the rest of the galaxy die while they sit around making mediocre tapestries.  There is nothing worse than hippies, apart from hippy bigots.

[Kotowboy]

Insurrection :

Picard learns to slow down time. But it never comes up again ever.

Are we supposed to assume that in order to get the Sona off the 'collector' ship and onto the holodeck ship - re-create the ship exactly and put it in orbit at exactly the right co-ordinates...That Picard

was able to slow down time? " If they don't realise what's happening? "... That's a big leap to make. That scene is all sorts of confusing.

[El Barto]

All right, I'm all quarantined up on COVID and I'm watching at an accelerated rate, so I can't do justice to the episode by episode remarks thing. Shame, I had fun typing it up the last couple of posts.

Random thoughts though:
- I liked Reunion, shame Worf's hot half-human girlfriend was killed.
When Picard went to see K'mpec and the latter asked him to "arbitrate the struggle for power" over who leads the Klingon empire and Picard declines; K'mpec seems to find that answer unexpected or unwarranted for some reason. Picard looked like if it wasn't for diplomacy he would have said "Because your people are assholes and will spend hours yelling at me during normal conversations, it's what you do"

- A lot of what I thought of Future Imperfect is similar to Remember Me. Again, I tried to figure out what's going on with Riker before the reveal, failed, then found their explanation too silly. The resolve made it obvious they just wanted to show me that alternate world of the Enterprise 16 years later, which is an interesting premise visually and would have been cool if the resolve -again- wasn't so silly and weakly written. It would have actually worked if they left at the whole "Romulan seeking secret Federation base location" deal.
It was cool to see Geordi without his VISOR, I don't think I've seen the actor's eyes before.
Hey things sure are different in the 24th century, but in the 21st; it used to be a kiss ass move to name your kid after your boss heh

- Final Mission, bye bye Wesley? are you bluffing TNG?! Good episode though, the kid did good.
The scenes in the cave were very reminiscent of some TOS stuff. While the stuff out in the desert looked beautiful IMO.

You're almost through the weak part of S4. The second half is considerably better. And yes, they're bluffing you.

Reunion is a fairly important episode. They're still laying the groundwork for Worf to become a key figure for years to come. The bad news is that if you think Wesley is bad, subsequent episodes with Alexander are 10x worse. Five or so different actors play him, and they're all just unbearable.

[DoctorAction]

Noticed that the characters on Lower Decks look much like their actors. I don't know what to make of that our how it came about but it is a thing that I noticed.

[Adami]

So they released what I'd call the first actual trailer for Picard Season 2. And it's......not good.

Spoilers below....





Apparently the story is that Q rewrites time to make the federation a totalitarian regime and Picard and his crew have to go back in time to the 21st century (now) to fix things?

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[ReaperKK]

I just saw the trailer and "Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" was my first thought too.

[gmillerdrake]

As bad as it may be I'm sure I'll still watch it. 

[El Barto]

As bad as it may be I'm sure I'll still watch it. 

I'll certainly watch the first couple of episodes. I probably won't want to stick with it, but most likely I will, for the two things about it that actually interest me. As bad as the show is, I do still enjoy Juan Solo and MILF Seven of Nine.

Taking it back to 2021 is an interesting idea, but not for the reason they think. One of my criticisms of S1 was that Earth was still 2021, just with better technology. Romulans in Ray Bans. Youngsters calling each other dude and spending all day on their phones. Their depiction of "ancient" Earth society will, ironically, be no different than what they had in S1.

Also, they made a mistake with Q. Why would he just look 30 years older? It makes no sense. Q's very nature would have had him come back looking old and decrepit, just like Picard. That would have been plausible.

[soupytwist]

It's hardly an original storyline, I can think of several episodes from the various shows that have the go back in time to fix the future - and two of the film's.  On the plus side quite often these are good episodes/films.

[DoctorAction]

Looks better than S1 to me.

[El Barto]

It's hardly an original storyline, I can think of several episodes from the various shows that have the go back in time to fix the future - and two of the film's.  On the plus side quite often these are good episodes/films.

The fish out of water trope tends to work very well in ST. CotEoF is about as good as Trek got. STIV is generally well liked by fans. VOY did it very well with Future's End. Even ENT and Carpenter Street made it work. Those weren't trying to be dark and edgy, though. Those came from typical Star Trek series and, Carpenter Street excepted, were still trying to keep with the generally light ST motif. The underlying problem is that Picard (series) is still trying to be something very different than Star Trek, and using a tried and proven formula isn't going to be enough to make it work. They'll find plenty of other ways to make it awful, disregarding the otherwise helpful plot device.

[DoctorAction]

I'm not a fan of Picard thus far but not because its dark or edgy. Star Trek can be any style and has been many.

[soupytwist]

I finally dragged myself over the line with Lower Decks season one. It did improve, but it's still mostly crap.  The problem is that I don't laugh at it nearly enough, and often not at all. The jokes are way too obvious and immature, the action sequences are maniacally overcompensating, and the franchise-self-referential name-dropping is shamelessly in-your-face and all the characters are zany and pure ham, worst is Mariner who is a horrid combination of Burnham (always correct) and Neelix (smug and annoying). 
The completist in me knows I'll watch season 2 at some, but I need a long break before hand.

[Kotowboy]

I haven't been into Trek anywhere near as much since Star Trek Beyond. I always prefer the movies to the TV shows and Discovery onwards just didn't fully grab me.

I do enjoy watching Discovery and think it's the best of the new shows so far by a long way. I wasn't expecting Next Gen Season 8 with Picard but I also wasn't expecting what we did get.

I'm optimistic for Strange New Worlds - but if S1 E1 has Pike saying " There's a universe threatening disaster...so stay tuned for all 10 episodes..." I'm done....







but also unlike some "fans" i realise that modern Trek might just not be for me - and that's completely fine.

[soupytwist]

I'd rank the modern seasons so far..

Disco 2
Picard 1
Disco 1
Disco 3
Lower decks 1

As for the 3 modern films I rank them In order of release.

[ReaperKK]

soupy our ranking is almost the same:

Disco 2
Picard 1
Disco 1
Lower decks 1
Disco 3

If I wasn't a ST completionist I wouldn't of even finished Disco 3, I really hated that season.

[Kotowboy]

Star Trek Beyond is easily the best of the 3 prequels. Then 2009 then Into Darkness as much as I do love it.

Also - this might be controversial - but I prefer all three Kelvin films to the three latter TNG movies.

Also I like Nemesis a lot more than Insurrection.

But I also rank The Motion Picture very highly and don't think it's remotely close to it's "super boring" reputation.

Lastly I don't think anyone will argue that - whatever you may think of the Kelvin films - they p*ss all over the Star Wars Prequels.

[soupytwist]

The Kelvin films are great fun, I really like them a lot.
I'd disagree on the motion picture though - I don't like it, the pacing is an issue, but the biggest problem.is the characters are all wrong, Kirk in particular is completely off. 

[DoctorAction]

Modern Seasons:

Disco 2
Disco 1
LD 2 (so far)
LD 1
Disco 3
Picard 1

Good to see the love for the Kelvin films. They've been the best Trek since DS9 for me (even with some Into Darkness issues).

I like TMP. The first 4 movies are a good example of how Trek varies in style. They don't have the same style as TOS and differ greatly from each other in tone (2 and 3 feel about the same to me).

[Kotowboy]

It annoys and amuses me a bit when people say the Kelvin films are "just action and explosions" when :

a. ) The Wrath of Khan was full of action and explosions. The trailer for it makes it look like a non stop action film.

b. ) The first 10 movies would have been exactly the same if they had $250m budget per movie.



A good story is important obviously. But when I go to the cinema to watch a film on a massive screen with LOUD surround sound I want to be entertained for 2-3 hours.

I don't go to the cinema to watch "Data's Day."

Not that every film NEEDS to be 2.5 hours of action and explosions. But there's literally nothing wrong with it either.

Hate how "splosions" has become short hand for "shit film".