Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Kotowboy]

I liked it a lot. Haven't checked out S2 yet. The title music is also one of the best.

[ReaperKK]

I haven't started S2 yet but I'm looking forward to it, I always loved the intro sequence to Lower Decks.

[soupytwist]

Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.

I've heard this a lot.  I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?

[DoctorAction]

Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.

I've heard this a lot.  I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?

Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.

[soupytwist]

Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.

I've heard this a lot.  I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?

Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.

I don't really understand why it need to be a comedy, the wackiness doesn't really fit Star Trek for me.   But I'll give it another go - The Orville got better once it started to drop the silliness.

[DoctorAction]

Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.

I've heard this a lot.  I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?

Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.

I don't really understand why it need to be a comedy, the wackiness doesn't really fit Star Trek for me.   But I'll give it another go - The Orville got better once it started to drop the silliness.

I've not seen The Orville. LD isn't that funny, really. Some chuckles, sure, but doesn't have me rolling. Just feels like a lighter Trek at this point.

[Kotowboy]

Yes which is why I like it. Disco S1 and Picard S1 were mostly doom and gloom so it's a nice change.

Makes me hopeful that Strange New Worlds won't just be torture and swearing and death every week.



But even if Strange new Worlds is just like Star Trek TOS but updated visually and adheres to canon religiously - Red Letter media will still hate it.

[soupytwist]

Talking of Lower Decks, I didn't get on with it when it came out but have gone back to it and am currently really enjoying it. Very Trek.

I've heard this a lot.  I really didn't like the first 3 episodes much at all, does it really get a lot better?

Hmm, I wouldn't say it's that different... I've only just watched episode 5. Maybe I just got used to it. Maybe I got desperate for something to watch. Dunno. But enjoying it.

I don't really understand why it need to be a comedy, the wackiness doesn't really fit Star Trek for me.   But I'll give it another go - The Orville got better once it started to drop the silliness.

I've not seen The Orville. LD isn't that funny, really. Some chuckles, sure, but doesn't have me rolling. Just feels like a lighter Trek at this point.

LD decks has heavy involvement from 'Mike McMahon' who writes for Rick & Morty and Solar Opposites - both shows I really like. 

[Kotowboy]

Lower Decks Decks ?

[soupytwist]

On a kind off related/unrelated note 'Lower Decks' is the best episode of TNG season 7 I think?

[El Barto]

On a kind off related/unrelated note 'Lower Decks' is the best episode of TNG season 7 I think?

That's not saying much, but it's a solid episode. Certainly one of a small handful of really good ones from an otherwise miserable season.

[YtseJam]

It's a good episode but not the best, Phantasms is better. Who doesn't love cellular peptide cake, with mint frosting.....Delicious.

That cartoon Lower Decks is unwatchable.

[DoctorAction]

We watched the first episode of Lower Decks season 2 tonight. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Best episode yet, I think.

[Orbert]

Continuing my way through Deep Space Nine, now into the second season.  This is getting good.  The three-part season opening arc was ballsy as hell, and it certainly didn't hurt that they had Frank Langella (uncredited!) and Louse Fletcher, a couple of old-school heavies on board.  I guess Langella did it because his kids loved Star Trek so he did it for scale and wasn't credited.  What a badass.  Great character, too.  Vedek Winn I could live without, but if I hate her that much, she was doing her job, too.

[DoctorAction]

Winn is so hateful. The actor always nails it.

[Nefarius]

Winn almost commands as much hate as anything called "Star Trek" after 2005, but even she can't reach those levels.

Greetings...
Nef

[El Barto]

Vedek Winn I could live without, but if I hate her that much, she was doing her job, too.

Kai/Vedek Winn is one of the best characters on the show. She truly got the soap opera/professional wrestler concept that being hated on television is just as good as being loved. More importantly, she really evolves throughout the show. As hateful as she is, her griefs aren't without merit. She really was one of the most faithful, and the prophets totally shit on her. And of course she redeems herself at the end. The writing and her portrayal are excellent, both on a episodic level, and in the overall big picture. She's great in 40 minute increments and great over the course of 7 years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, DS9 works because of the ancillary characters. With the possible exception of Dax, Quark, and Odo, none of the main cast are particularly interesting. It's Garak, Winn, Weyoun, Dukat, and Damar that make it all worth watching.


Also, if you're just now watching through this, pay attention to Blood Oath. I think it's one of the most important episodes of the series. Up until this point Dax has been just kind of there. Blood Oath is where she finds herself as a character.

[Adami]

Winn is so hateful. The actor always nails it.

Indeed. As I've always said, everyone hates Adami.

[Orbert]

I liked how Minister Jaro (Langella) and Vedek Winn were clearly allies, and you think "Oh shit, those two working together will be a real problem" but then their alliance unraveled over certain philosophical differences.  Both seemed to truly have the best interests of Bajor in mind, which is how they'd gotten as far together as they had.  But Winn was willing to cross some lines that Jaro wasn't, and vice versa, and things came apart for them.

The best villains are the ones who are intelligent and believe that what they're doing is right.  If you're lucky, their means are ultimately their undoing, as former allies go "hey, wait... I never said we'd go that far".  If you're not lucky, well, the bad guys win.

[El Barto]

I liked how Minister Jaro (Langella) and Vedek Winn were clearly allies, and you think "Oh shit, those two working together will be a real problem" but then their alliance unraveled over certain philosophical differences.  Both seemed to truly have the best interests of Bajor in mind, which is how they'd gotten as far together as they had.  But Winn was willing to cross some lines that Jaro wasn't, and vice versa, and things came apart for them.

The best villains are the ones who are intelligent and believe that what they're doing is right.  If you're lucky, their means are ultimately their undoing, as former allies go "hey, wait... I never said we'd go that far".  If you're not lucky, well, the bad guys win.

I think their parting of ways was strictly political, as opposed to philosophical. She simply saw the winds turning and jumped ship. Keep in mind that Jaro didn't know of the Kardasian involvement, and would have been just as pissed off about it as she, or anybody else would have been. They were still philosophically aligned. He simply got played and she knew that she needed to distance herself from him. At the end of the day Winn has three prominent traits. She's a true believer, but you probably haven't seen that part of her yet. She's manipulative as all get out, and you have seen that. Above all else, she's ambitious. You're seeing that now. Because of the first part, her ambition isn't entirely a bad thing. As you said, the best bad guys know truly believe in what they're doing, and she no doubt believes that attaining power in any way possible is what the prophets want of her.

Like I said, Winn is an excellent character.

[El Barto]

I've also been perusing the early seasons of DS9, and I picked up on something I'd never noticed before. Sisko's baseball was given to him by that pudgy Japanese shortstop in If Wishes Were Horses. Given the significance of the damn thing throughout the series you'd assume there was a backstory to it, but I always figured it was just a random baseball. You know, the guy likes baseball. That it was given to him by one of his all-time heroes adds another element to it. That was a nice touch.

[ReaperKK]

I've watch DS9 through a half dozen times at least and I've never noticed that Barto. I always assumed he just had it with him the entire time.

[soupytwist]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, DS9 works because of the ancillary characters. With the possible exception of Dax, Quark, and Odo, none of the main cast are particularly interesting. It's Garak, Winn, Weyoun, Dukat, and Damar that make it all worth watching.

I like most of the DS9 main cast - grumpy put upon O'Brien was also fun, also Bashir gets a lot better as the show progresses.  The weakest characters (Kira and Sisko imo) are letdown by the actors more than the writing to be honest.   But yeah the side characters you mentioned are great and add a ton of value to the show.

[ReaperKK]

I agree with the notion that DS9 has a really strong cast all around. I think the only weak link for me was Kira and Bashir in the first couple of seasons. They were so over the top that it was hard to take them seriously but after season 3 or so they really mellowed out.

[Polarbear]

I agree with the notion that DS9 has a really strong cast all around. I think the only weak link for me was Kira and Bashir in the first couple of seasons. They were so over the top that it was hard to take them seriously but after season 3 or so they really mellowed out.

In general, I feel DS9 starts to properly take off during season 3. The overarching Dominion story begins, and the characters in general start to be more fleshed out. DS9 hits it's stride in season 4, when Worf joins the show!

[DoctorAction]

This is the thing that I think gets missed when judging the new shows: the great shows (and DS9 is my favourite) took a pretty long time to get great.

[ReaperKK]

I had an opposite reaction to disco. I thought season 1 and 2 we're great and season 3 took a drastic dip in quality

[Adami]

This is the thing that I think gets missed when judging the new shows: the great shows (and DS9 is my favourite) took a pretty long time to get great.

I get that, but I think holding TV in the 2010's to the same standard as TV in the 1990's is just not accurate, you know? When TNG and DS9 were on the air, TV was something people didn't take too seriously. It was where actors went when they weren't good enough for movies (mostly). But in the 2010's, it's the premium form of entertainment. The best writers, directors, actors, etc are all trying to get on TV. So I hold TV these days to slightly different standards. Plus shows like Disco and Picard have 50 or whatever years of ST mistakes to learn from. To assume they shouldn't have had to learn anything and get a pass just seems off.

[DoctorAction]

It's a good point. They should have got it by now.

I had an opposite reaction to disco. I thought season 1 and 2 we're great and season 3 took a drastic dip in quality

Me too, pretty much. Season 2 was my favourite but did have some things that bothered me. Session 3 was pretty tiresome in the main. I soooo want it to be good. Season 4 could be make or break for me.

[soupytwist]

It's a good point. They should have got it by now.

I had an opposite reaction to disco. I thought season 1 and 2 we're great and season 3 took a drastic dip in quality

Me too, pretty much. Season 2 was my favourite but did have some things that bothered me. Session 3 was pretty tiresome in the main. I soooo want it to be good. Season 4 could be make or break for me.

Agreed Season 2 was the high point.  Season 3 started quite well but the second half was a real chore.

[gmillerdrake]

So I recently was able to watch S3 of Discovery and the First Season of Picard. I've read back through some of the comments and don't have a lot to add to the conversation but here are my quick thoughts about both:

Discovery - I like the show/series....it's entertaining enough.....but as Adami commented it's a tad tiring when it's ALWAYS Michael who has to be the one that figures 'it' out or is the 'only' person that knows this or that. It's pretty lazy writing. Like you guys mentioned....there's the potential there for some pretty good characters if they'd work them into the story more. But, as I said....it's entertaining enough and I'll keep watching. Just feels like they're missing the opportunity to go from good to great with the series.

Picard -   Just finished this last night so I haven't dug back through the comments on it to get the overall consensus....but for me, it was a massive let down. Rudimentary writing and storyline with one predictable moment after another. It was actually kind of sad to watch them taint the legacy of Cpt. Picard. The entire Data 'send off' in the final episode ruined that legacy of sacrifice as well for me. There was no need for that other than fan service. All in all it was an 'ok' show....I'm sure I'll watch S2 when it comes out....but in my eyes it wasn't a very good show.

[El Barto]

Picard -   Just finished this last night so I haven't dug back through the comments on it to get the overall consensus....but for me, it was a massive let down. Rudimentary writing and storyline with one predictable moment after another. It was actually kind of sad to watch them taint the legacy of Cpt. Picard. The entire Data 'send off' in the final episode ruined that legacy of sacrifice as well for me. There was no need for that other than fan service. All in all it was an 'ok' show....I'm sure I'll watch S2 when it comes out....but in my eyes it wasn't a very good show.

It was a terrible show with two great aspects. Jeri Ryan looks great now. Better than she did in VOY. And Juan Solo with all of the Emergency Holograms was a great idea. I'll watch the next season for those two things, but I'm pretty sure it'll suck.

[Adami]

The only thing I have hope for in season 2 is Marc Bernardin being a writer. He’s a smart dude that knows how to tell a good story. Unsure how much influence he will actually have but he’s good to have on the team.

[gmillerdrake]

Picard -   Just finished this last night so I haven't dug back through the comments on it to get the overall consensus....but for me, it was a massive let down. Rudimentary writing and storyline with one predictable moment after another. It was actually kind of sad to watch them taint the legacy of Cpt. Picard. The entire Data 'send off' in the final episode ruined that legacy of sacrifice as well for me. There was no need for that other than fan service. All in all it was an 'ok' show....I'm sure I'll watch S2 when it comes out....but in my eyes it wasn't a very good show.

It was a terrible show with two great aspects. Jeri Ryan looks great now. Better than she did in VOY. And Juan Solo with all of the Emergency Holograms was a great idea. I'll watch the next season for those two things, but I'm pretty sure it'll suck.

That was an entertaining idea.

The only thing I have hope for in season 2 is Marc Bernardin being a writer. He’s a smart dude that knows how to tell a good story. Unsure how much influence he will actually have but he’s good to have on the team.

I'll watch S2 out of loyalty to the franchise and the character....but man, it can only go up from season 1.

[DoctorAction]

Just watched LD S02E03. This season is so much fun.