Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Grappler]

I was hoping Prime would have it in the US.  Oh well.  I've never signed up for CBS All Access - I'll probably wait until the season is over, do a free trial and try to binge it all in 7 days.   

[ProfessorPeart]

Watched Picard and, yeah, loved it.

Then I went and saw some 'professional' reviews and the first one I see complains about how slow and tentative it starts out. SHUT UP! So tired of people just wanting wall-to-wall mindless action. God forbid, we also get intellectually challenged and have to use our brains.

Whew, that set me off. Anyway, really looking forward to how this plays out.

Looks like I'll sign up for a few months of CBS to watch this. Ugh.

But as far as your complaint goes.....well, Star Trek has only itself to blame. For the last 11 years or so, Star Trek has actively rebranded itself as a fast paced action explosion fest franchise. While I, and most actual Trek fans prefer the slower more character based stuff, I'm not shocked newer fans are disappointed with something that might resemble actual Trek.

True. I have not seen a second of the JJ-verse movies. Just not interested.

Season 1 of Discovery was even a little too fast. The second season was stunning. They seem to be bringing things back around to us fogey Trek fans.

[CrimsonSunrise]

So listening to everyone it seems it's one episode a week instead of the whole season dropping at once.  I'll wait till the season is over and I get a free "come back" offer, or I'll spend one months fee and watch it.  Can't wait to see it though!

[Polarbear]

I heard good things about the first episode!

I'm dying to see Picard, but I don't have any way of seeing this, since there is no CBS All Access in my country!

Guess I'll have to wait for Netflix to pick this up..

Outside of US and Canada, Amazon Prime was supposed to be streaming it 24 hours after the US air dates

Thanks! Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get Amazon Prime..

[YtseJam]

Watched Picard and, yeah, loved it.

Then I went and saw some 'professional' reviews and the first one I see complains about how slow and tentative it starts out. SHUT UP! So tired of people just wanting wall-to-wall mindless action. God forbid, we also get intellectually challenged and have to use our brains.

Whew, that set me off. Anyway, really looking forward to how this plays out.

Why do they need to SHUT UP? It did start out that way, so it sounds like they spoke the truth in whatever you were reading. What makes you think they want mindless action (it seemed to deliver plenty of it)? They themselves brought in the unnecessary action, the over the top fighting scenes and jumping up 300 flights of stairs in one leap.... stuff we never saw in TNG. I am not a boom boom explosion action fanboy at all, but I felt the overall delivery of the first episode was weak and the storyline thus far kind of lame. I am sure it gets better, I hope anyway.

[Adami]

Okay, bit the bullet and signed up for CBS All Access and watched the first episode.



I liked it! Not perfect, at all, but pretty damn good. Patrick Stewart was just incredible.

Rest of the post is SPOILERS........







- Return of Data was handled very well I thought. I'm glad it took the form it did. Hope we didn't see the last of it.
- Loved the fall out of the destruction of Romulas. Picard taking the stance he did was very much in character. The anti-robot thing seemed a bit out of left field. They randomly destroyed part of Mars? Why? Hope that gets explored more.
- The literal nostalgia room was a bit overkill. I get it, but was a bit much.
- The Romulans on a Borg ship should be interesting.



So yea, I'm intrigued. Hope it doesn't go a typical action/shoot em up direction, but it's a promising start.

[lonestar]

Adami...on CBS All Access there's a section of Trek Shorts, one of them is called Children of Mars and gives an interesting perspective on the Mars event as it happens through the eyes of two schoolchildren. Really well done for a 7 minute piece.

[abydos]

Why was the technology/science to create more like Data lost?

[jingle.boy]

Why was the technology/science to create more like Data lost?

I think the explanation is that Noonian Soong never shared it.  Some of the information/data might have been saved or available, but a lot of it was locked up in his mind, and then it died with Data.  Since Soong invented him on his own, Starfleet had no claim to it.

[abydos]

How smart of him And how come did Q not show up... That's the thing I want them to explain.

[Adami]

How smart of him And how come did Q not show up... That's the thing I want them to explain.

Why would he?

[abydos]

Why wouldn't he? He likes to show up in bad situations and make things worse but also help.

[Adami]

Why wouldn't he? He likes to show up in bad situations and make things worse but also help.

Eh. But then you’d have to ask why he didn’t show up in every episode.

Q showing up just to cause mischief would really not match the tone thus far. Him showing up for a deeper reason would have to be meaningful and not a senseless cameo. And I loooove Q.

[jingle.boy]

Why wouldn't he? He likes to show up in bad situations and make things worse but also help.

In all the TNG/DS9/Voy seasons, he showed up what... two dozen times-ish?  There's no point in bringing in a de-aged John DeLancie.

[abydos]

I didn't mean for him to show up in this episode, but whenever that thing with Mars happened. Seems like a pretty big event.

[hefdaddy42]

2nd episode of Picard: the plot thickens.

[Adami]

Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.

[jingle.boy]

Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.

And that's bad how?  I'm very much digging this.  It's not a space exploration show, that's for sure.

[lonestar]

I'm still trying to get over the fact that they dropped an F-bomb on a Star Trek show.

[abydos]

Yeah, I was like.. what? Fucks in Star Trek? It's like they stripped everything hopeful from Star Trek and the people, the federation and starfleet. All the ideals - out the window. Characters behave just like regular, generic people from today, language and all.

I really hope this show ends up not being canon somehow. The writing is just awful and lazy.

[Adami]

Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.

And that's bad how?  I'm very much digging this.  It's not a space exploration show, that's for sure.

Because then it’s just another sci-fi show like most other modern ones. It’s not unique like Star Trek was. It’s just typical.

Also sooo much of the dialogue was the characters speaking to the audience rather than each other. I dunno. The writing just feels mostly lazy and mediocre. If this wasn’t Picard, and didn’t have the great Patrick Stewart, I doubt anyone would care.

I want to like this. I really do. And it has redeeming elements. But it’s also just so mediocre and average and not-unique that I can’t simply give it a pass for not being awful.

[jingle.boy]

Ehhhhhh. I’m not really convinced. That was a good amount of some pretty awful writing. I dunno. This is starting to look like they’re sticking with the modern formula of dark, gritty, lots of twists and mysteries, and typical dramatic tropes.

And that's bad how?  I'm very much digging this.  It's not a space exploration show, that's for sure.

Because then it’s just another sci-fi show like most other modern ones. It’s not unique like Star Trek was. It’s just typical.

Also sooo much of the dialogue was the characters speaking to the audience rather than each other. I dunno. The writing just feels mostly lazy and mediocre. If this wasn’t Picard, and didn’t have the great Patrick Stewart, I doubt anyone would care.

I want to like this. I really do. And it has redeeming elements. But it’s also just so mediocre and average and not-unique that I can’t simply give it a pass for not being awful.

to the bolded part... perhaps.  In fact, most likely.  That's why it's called Picard... not Star Trek: Picard.  I'm watching it as a story about Picard, set in the ST universe.  I wasn't expecting a Star Trek show that had Picard as the lead character.  Maybe it's a subtle enough difference for me to enjoy it as it is.  You're not enjoying it because you want/expected it to be something else maybe?

[Adami]

It is called Star Trek: Picard.

I expect Star Trek. And I expect good writing. Those two expectations shouldn’t be a problem. If this is what Star Trek is now, just generic modern sci-fi without an original voice, then such is life. But it doesn’t excuse poor writing.

Maybe it’ll get better. It has a lot going for it. The acting is great, Stewart is a god-send, the characters are (mostly) likable, and the directing is good. I just wish we had better writers and show runners. But this is the dude behind the new Mummy movie, Amazing Spider-Man 2, into Darkness, transformers, etc. as well as the guy behind Batman and Robin.

Of course it’s also a ton of the same creatives from Discovery, which partially explains the new tone.


Don’t get me wrong, if you’re really loving it, awesome. I’ve accepted that Star Trek will never be what I remember it being. And the show isn’t awful. I just find it disappointing at the moment. I’ll keep watching though.

[jingle.boy]

It is called Star Trek: Picard.

I stand corrected.  I thought it was simply Picard.  My bad.

But I think you're exactly right... With Gene long gone, his image and vision of Star Trek isn't what we're getting.  The ongoing mission here is no longer to explore strange new worlds, or seek out new life/civilization.  This show feels more like Altered Carbon than TNG or DS9.

I'm ok with that.

[ReaperKK]

I'm really enjoying the new show. I always thought Gene's vision of ST was laid out as an all star perfect utopia. In regards to the writing there has been some truly awful, lazy writing in every st series but that's just my opinion.

I personally love the new series and I'm happy it's on.

[Polarbear]

I'm really enjoying the new show. I always thought Gene's vision of ST was laid out as an all star perfect utopia. In regards to the writing there has been some truly awful, lazy writing in every st series but that's just my opinion.

I personally love the new series and I'm happy it's on.

A Night in Sickbay, Code of Honor, Rascals, Naked Now and Threshold from the top of my head. There is so much more.

[ProfessorPeart]

I'm really enjoying it. I can't believe it took me until halfway through the second episode to remember who Bruce Maddox is. Totally went past me initially.

[jingle.boy]

I'm really enjoying it. I can't believe it took me until halfway through the second episode to remember who Bruce Maddox is. Totally went past me initially.

I can't believe it took me until RIGHT NOW (had to look it up).  And I watched Measure of a Man just a couple months ago!

[ProfessorPeart]

I'm really enjoying it. I can't believe it took me until halfway through the second episode to remember who Bruce Maddox is. Totally went past me initially.

I can't believe it took me until RIGHT NOW (had to look it up).  And I watched Measure of a Man just a couple months ago!

It was right when Picard mentioned that Data and Maddox were friends and then the lightbulb came on. I sat up and was like, Maddox is the douche from TNG that wanted to deconstruct Data!

[soupytwist]

It is called Star Trek: Picard.

I expect Star Trek. And I expect good writing.

Why?  It's like people have this weird filter that blocks out that plenty of TNG (or any Star Trek series) was full of terrible writing, stilted dialog and iffy acting (sometimes it's part of the charm!)  Yes there were some great episodes, but for every 'Inner Light', 'Tapestry' and 'Best of Both Worlds' there is an 'Angel One', 'Masks' and 'Imaginary Friend'.   And I'm willing to bet Episode 3 of Picard (however bad) will be better than Episode 3 of TNG 'Code of Honor' 

As for Picard so far so good.  Although the Brother/Sister villains at the end of episode two did seem a tad moustache twirling cliches.

[Adami]

Because it's different. Picard isn't a 24 episode season that MANDATES 24 episodes. It can be whatever it wants.

I'm sorry, but this "bad writing of the past excuses bad writing now" is complete BS.

Also the kind of bad writing I'm talking about it is not the same kind of bad writing you're talking about. This isn't made on a relatively low budget for a group of fans you're not quite sure exist and has to appeal to the big masses because it's on cable. It's a streaming only show with a good budget with decades to learn from the mistakes of the past.

On the nose writing that is talking to the audience instead of characters talking to each other, plot twists for no reason, dumb dumb dumb motivations, and things only happening to make the plot move are not acceptable to me. I'm glad you're all perfectly fine with it, but I'm not. I expect them to respect the audience and this show does not seem to. To me.

I'm still hoping it gets better. It has the potential, but it's written very poorly in a different way than Code of Honor or whatever other examples you want cite

[soupytwist]

Because it's different. Picard isn't a 24 episode season that MANDATES 24 episodes. It can be whatever it wants.

I'm sorry, but this "bad writing of the past excuses bad writing now" is complete BS.

Also the kind of bad writing I'm talking about it is not the same kind of bad writing you're talking about. This isn't made on a relatively low budget for a group of fans you're not quite sure exist and has to appeal to the big masses because it's on cable. It's a streaming only show with a good budget with decades to learn from the mistakes of the past.

On the nose writing that is talking to the audience instead of characters talking to each other, plot twists for no reason, dumb dumb dumb motivations, and things only happening to make the plot move are not acceptable to me. I'm glad you're all perfectly fine with it, but I'm not. I expect them to respect the audience and this show does not seem to. To me.

I'm still hoping it gets better. It has the potential, but it's written very poorly in a different way than Code of Honor or whatever other examples you want cite

Oh come on Star Trek has always been full of this type of exposition writing.  I genuinely can't thing of a worse example across TV than Wesley and Yar's 'Drugs can make you feel good' heavy handed dialog!

The writing is different obviously but mostly because this is telling one story, things follow though.   TNG any amount of utter madness could happen to the crew and when the credits rolled none (or very, very little) would be ever be referenced again.

[Adami]

Again, doesn’t excuse it.

[soupytwist]

Again, doesn’t excuse it.

You need to cite examples of what you class as bad writing we've seen so far.  As I said I wasn't overly keen on the Sister/Brother villains (so far), but that aside I've seen nothing I'd class as bad - certainly not Insurrections/Nemesis bad (films so both without the constraints of small budget, short time scale, so closer in production to Picard).

[El Barto]

The difference is that TNG was episodic television and PIC is serialized. The 24 episodes of S1 of TNG were probably written by 18 different teams of writers. Some better than others. PIC has to be written with a unifying theme and much of that has to come from a group of writers all being on the same page. I doubt they're accepting spec scripts right now that might or might not work.

To be fair, I have no idea if the writing sucks as I have no interest in the show. There really is no comparison between how modern TV interpretations of ST work vs the older series, though.