Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[soupytwist]

I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.

The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.

The others did to varying degrees.

You can pretty much watch any episode of TNG and characters will be how they always are, no one really changes (depict all the crazy shite they often go though).  They all have one or two personality traits that are picked up on a couple of times per season - Riker plays the Trombone, Troi likes cake, La Forge is terrible around women, Picard is an archaeology nerd and like earl grey tea...etc.  But no one has really changed much from the first episode to the last - and if they have it's more due to inconsistant writing than actually meaningful development.

[El Barto]

I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.

The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.

The others did to varying degrees.

In what way? You think the others developed or that Riker was inhuman like the rest of them?

[Adami]

I feel like you two watched a different TNG than I did.

The only character that got almost NO real development is Harry Kim.

The others did to varying degrees.

In what way? You think the others developed or that Riker was inhuman like the rest of them?

Neither. You didn't care much for the characters, but they just weren't really for you. That's cool. I see your perspective, but I don't take it nearly as far as you do. They mostly had plenty of personality for me, at least eventually.

As far as development goes, it's an odd metric. They had about as much development as any of the TOS peeps had minus the movies. They had a good amount of development given that the mindset behind the show was to essentially reset everything after each episode. That said, there was development. They weren't vastly different characters at the end, but they had changed and evolved. Except maybe Troi or Crusher.

[jingle.boy]

I think they put some effort into both Troi and Crusher in S6... I mean, both had a chance to sit in the big chair.

I'm debating on putting that in green.  Nah... fuckit.  I think they both evolved a little, and more away-team action that didn't simply rely on them being mind-reader/medic... or Wesley's mom.

[ReaperKK]

Maybe some effort but very little, maybe it was a product of the times but both Troi and Crusher were largely one dimensional characters.

[ReaperKK]

Just finished off Voyager. I got through my Voyager run pretty quickly. Voyager has some good episode and some really terrible eps but I don't think the highs ever really reach the highs of DS9 or TNG with the exception of "Year in Hell" which is a top 5 ST episode for me. I did some reading on Memory Alpha and it would've been really cool if they did use that episode as a turning point of the ship instead of hitting the reset button at the end.

The finale though. It's been a very long time since I watched it and it was worse than I remember. I think the episode would've fared much better if there was another episode right after it going further into detail about them coming home.

[SoundscapeMN]

Aron Eisenberg aka Nog Rest in Peace 

I guess he had 2 kidney transplants, the most recent in 2015.

I started following him on Twitter over the last 6 months, ever since the DS9 Doc gained a lot of steam.

50 years old, way too young.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/22/entertainment/aron-eisenberg-star-trek-actor-dies/index.html

[Adami]

R. I. P.


May he walk latinum streets toward the divine treasury.

[ProfessorPeart]

Woke up to this and it hit me kind of hard. Aron was an infectious guy. Nog was so energetic and Aron himself in the DS9 doc. You could see how much he loved what he was doing.

I have done some reading and he was born with only 1 kidney and it was only partially functional, I guess. It failed in his teenage years and he needed a transplant. He was on dialysis for 3 years before he finally got a new kidney. That one then failed 4 years ago and he needed another transplant. He was plagued with health issues but you could never tell by his behavior.

He was a true inspiration on how to carry yourself and live life even when you haven't been dealt a good hand.

[lonestar]

New Picard trailer from NYCC....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySrgrKJguE&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1LJ_gYjQzpoIJoFLXFG9_MyqG-YOXwsXa4WG4tvnWCjPkSUk4HWbuucyA

[Adami]

New Picard trailer from NYCC....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FySrgrKJguE&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1LJ_gYjQzpoIJoFLXFG9_MyqG-YOXwsXa4WG4tvnWCjPkSUk4HWbuucyA

That was a......pretty desperate trailer I feel like.

It just feels like the thought process was "We don't trust anyone will be into this, so let's throw EVERY TNG reference we possibly can into the trailer to make them think Troi and Riker and Data are significant parts of the show, despite (probably) only being in a few scenes at most"

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of seeing them all, but I feel like they're banking on that alone getting them viewers. And it'll work. I'll probably wait til the show is done and then get my free week or whatever and binge it.

[ReaperKK]

I felt the opposite. I don't know if it's because I'm thirsty for some new trek but the two trailers seem like a genuine evolution of ST with the TNG cast. I mean it could be awful, it could be great, I'm going to stay optimistic.

[jingle.boy]

Other than the "desperate" comment, I think you're both right.  I'm incredibly stoked for this, and gonna try to find some disposable time to run through some 'best of' episodes of TNG over the next few months.

[ReaperKK]

I remember finding this list for TNG in 40 hours a while back:

https://medium.com/maxistentialism-blog/star-trek-the-next-generation-in-40-hours-c4a6762cbd3

[jingle.boy]

Glorious!!!  I randomly picked as S3 episode (because that's where I remember the show really got it's feet under itself).  Survivors.  Not bad, but there were some moments it shows it's age.

[YtseJam]

New trailer looks better than the last except for the part where riker was beating off. 

[SoundscapeMN]

Alex Kurtzman..

I sure as hell hope that hack never does anything involving DS9 .

[El Barto]

Working my way through DS9 (actually all of ST, which I started about a year ago) and I just wrapped up The Visitor. It's not my favorite episode, frankly I find it so gut wrenching that I seldom want to watch it, but it is the best thing they did. It's DS9's CotEoF. Reading up on a different episode I discovered that Rene Auberjonois was slated to direct it, and due to a scheduling conflict they had to swap episodes, and thus directors. RA is actually a pretty good director, so I suspect he'd have done just fine, but it woudln't have been the same. It's interesting to me how fragile greatness can be. Any number of oddball occurrences create the circumstances by which things happen. In this case, Colme Meaney has to nip off to shoot Con Air or something so they swap the shooting order of the two episodes, and somebody decides to leave the directors in place. Thus leaving an indelible mark on what turns out to be one of their very best episodes. I just always find things like that fascinating.

Another oddball effect from that is that RA's first directing gig turns out to be Hippocratic Oath, obviously starring Colme Meaney. Dude was completely unprepared for it, having been working on the prep for The Visitor, and basically get's tossed into the frying pan where he does an excellent job.

[hefdaddy42]

I doing a run through of DS9 myself.  TBH, it's mostly a first time run, because I didn't give the show the attention it deserved while it was originally on the air.

Currently 3 episodes into season 6.  Thoroughly enjoying it.

[Adami]

I actually just started a Star Trek rewatch too.

Currently on 2nd season of Enterprise. Gonna just ignore all Kelvin Timeline stuff.

Unsure if I should include Discovery or not. GAH

Also skipping Animated Series cause it's hard to find.

But yea, Enterprise, into TOS (that's gonna be a slog), the TOS movies, TNG, overlap with DS9, overlap with Voyager, movies in there as well, then Picard I guess, which I'll probably binge for free once it's done airing.

So should I include Discovery? Is it worth it? Only saw the first episode and thought it was Kelvin Timeline stuff on the small screen.

[El Barto]

I actually just started a Star Trek rewatch too.

Currently on 2nd season of Enterprise. Gonna just ignore all Kelvin Timeline stuff.

Unsure if I should include Discovery or not. GAH

Also skipping Animated Series cause it's hard to find.

But yea, Enterprise, into TOS (that's gonna be a slog), the TOS movies, TNG, overlap with DS9, overlap with Voyager, movies in there as well, then Picard I guess, which I'll probably binge for free once it's done airing.

So should I include Discovery? Is it worth it? Only saw the first episode and thought it was Kelvin Timeline stuff on the small screen.

It never occurred to me to watch ENT first. Huh. Though now that I think about it I never intended to start watching it all the way through, either. I just started watching random TOS episodes, and here we are. I'm trying my best to only skip the completely insufferable ones, which have amounted to a couple per season. Luwaxana Troi's presence is a pretty good indicator. Same with Alexander. Otherwise I'm seeing some stuff I haven't seen in ages.

They're not calling STD part of the Kelvin timeline, but it necessarily has to look like it. Basically they're calling it the prime timeline, but since they're not allowed to make it look like ST, it's kind of hybrid. Picard will be the same thing. It'll follow the TNG events, but look like STD, which is derived from the Abrams movies. This is all because of the strange wedding of CBS and Paramount.

And for my part, I've already dismissed Picard. The last trailer convinced me that it's not really my bag.

[ReaperKK]

Working my way through DS9 (actually all of ST, which I started about a year ago) and I just wrapped up The Visitor. It's not my favorite episode, frankly I find it so gut wrenching that I seldom want to watch it, but it is the best thing they did. It's DS9's CotEoF. Reading up on a different episode I discovered that Rene Auberjonois was slated to direct it, and due to a scheduling conflict they had to swap episodes, and thus directors. RA is actually a pretty good director, so I suspect he'd have done just fine, but it woudln't have been the same. It's interesting to me how fragile greatness can be. Any number of oddball occurrences create the circumstances by which things happen. In this case, Colme Meaney has to nip off to shoot Con Air or something so they swap the shooting order of the two episodes, and somebody decides to leave the directors in place. Thus leaving an indelible mark on what turns out to be one of their very best episodes. I just always find things like that fascinating.

Another oddball effect from that is that RA's first directing gig turns out to be Hippocratic Oath, obviously starring Colme Meaney. Dude was completely unprepared for it, having been working on the prep for The Visitor, and basically get's tossed into the frying pan where he does an excellent job.

Damn your making good progress, it's taken me 2 years to get to enterprise, now that I'm in season one of enterprise is really rough trying to get through it.

I doing a run through of DS9 myself.  TBH, it's mostly a first time run, because I didn't give the show the attention it deserved while it was originally on the air.

Currently 3 episodes into season 6.  Thoroughly enjoying it.

Voy used to be my favorite but DS9 took that crown a while back. The whole cast and writing is much stronger on DS9.

[jingle.boy]

I'm trying to get one episode in daily, which is not going so well.  If I'm lucky, I'll hammer out the 40-ish episodes that Kay pointed out earlier before Picard starts.  The same blogger had a recommended DS9 'essential' watching list there - there's a lot more than 40 episodes there.  Doubt I'll get to that before January.

Not enough disposable time.   

So far, I've watched A Matter of Honor, and Measure of a Man.  Watching them with adult (and 2019) eyes, there are some glaring holes and glitches in the story lines... a lot of which has to be forgiven or dismissed in order to get the story told in 44 minutes.

[El Barto]

Working my way through DS9 (actually all of ST, which I started about a year ago) and I just wrapped up The Visitor. It's not my favorite episode, frankly I find it so gut wrenching that I seldom want to watch it, but it is the best thing they did. It's DS9's CotEoF. Reading up on a different episode I discovered that Rene Auberjonois was slated to direct it, and due to a scheduling conflict they had to swap episodes, and thus directors. RA is actually a pretty good director, so I suspect he'd have done just fine, but it woudln't have been the same. It's interesting to me how fragile greatness can be. Any number of oddball occurrences create the circumstances by which things happen. In this case, Colme Meaney has to nip off to shoot Con Air or something so they swap the shooting order of the two episodes, and somebody decides to leave the directors in place. Thus leaving an indelible mark on what turns out to be one of their very best episodes. I just always find things like that fascinating.

Another oddball effect from that is that RA's first directing gig turns out to be Hippocratic Oath, obviously starring Colme Meaney. Dude was completely unprepared for it, having been working on the prep for The Visitor, and basically get's tossed into the frying pan where he does an excellent job.

Damn your making good progress, it's taken me 2 years to get to enterprise, now that I'm in season one of enterprise is really rough trying to get through it.

Depending on workflow it's not at all uncommon for me to watch 4 episodes in a day. That's not sitting down watching, mind you, but having on while I work. So it really shouldn't take more than two weeks per season.

[Samsara]

In the midst of my own re-watch of DS9. I'm mid-way through (slightly more) season 5. The episode where Kira gives birth to the O'Briens' son, and Odo tries to "father" the baby changling. DS9 was so well done. Just so damn well done.

[El Barto]

I think I've decided that S4 of DS9 is the most solid season of any ST series. Worf's arrival and the subsequent change in Dax gave them a lot more to work with, and the result some very good story lines. The ration of good/weak episodes was very strong. The lighthearted episodes aren't terrible, and LGM is actually pretty good. About the only knock on the season was including the mirror universe and Luwaxana Troi, and the Obrian Must Suffer episode is so horribly depressing.

[ReaperKK]

Season 4 is a strong season, I also really like season 6.

I enjoy the obrien suffering episodes, partially because I think Colm Meaney does such a great job with them

[Samsara]

I enjoy the obrien suffering episodes, partially because I think Colm Meaney does such a great job with them

He really does.

[El Barto]

I agree, but that doesn't necessarily make the episodes more appealing to watch. A wonderful depiction of a starving Jew at Auschwitz is certainly something to behold, but that doesn't mean I want to put it on one Saturday afternoon while cleaning house. And truthfully most of them are good Star Trek epsidoes. Some of them are just 40 minute capsules of misery.

[hefdaddy42]

Finished season 6 of DS9 this morning.  One more season to go.

[Samsara]

I agree, but that doesn't necessarily make the episodes more appealing to watch. A wonderful depiction of a starving Jew at Auschwitz is certainly something to behold, but that doesn't mean I want to put it on one Saturday afternoon while cleaning house. And truthfully most of them are good Star Trek epsidoes. Some of them are just 40 minute capsules of misery.

Way to be negative. 

On a whole, I've probably skipped three episodes through where I am at, in the last third of Season 5 of my rewatch. There are some clunkers, sure. But every Trek series has them. The format back then makes it almost impossible not to have some clunker/filler episodes. DS9 is by far the most intriguing Star Trek series because of its unique quality of being in one place. But I wouldn't call the episodes that are filler "40 minute capsules of misery." LOL. That's a bit melodramatic.    But hey, if you wanna view it that way, you do you my man. 

[El Barto]

I agree, but that doesn't necessarily make the episodes more appealing to watch. A wonderful depiction of a starving Jew at Auschwitz is certainly something to behold, but that doesn't mean I want to put it on one Saturday afternoon while cleaning house. And truthfully most of them are good Star Trek epsidoes. Some of them are just 40 minute capsules of misery.

Way to be negative. 

On a whole, I've probably skipped three episodes through where I am at, in the last third of Season 5 of my rewatch. There are some clunkers, sure. But every Trek series has them. The format back then makes it almost impossible not to have some clunker/filler episodes. DS9 is by far the most intriguing Star Trek series because of its unique quality of being in one place. But I wouldn't call the episodes that are filler "40 minute capsules of misery." LOL. That's a bit melodramatic.    But hey, if you wanna view it that way, you do you my man. 

I wasn't referring to all filler episodes, but only the O'brian Must Suffer episodes, and only a couple of them. Though I'd apply "40MCoM" to the Luwaxana Troi episodes, too.  I like Obrian, and I like the fact that they exploit his good nature once a season. Hell, even the ones I don't like are usually pretty good. They're just not what I want to see when casually watching ST.

All ST has great, good, average, poor episodes. Some series have better ratios than others (though it's usually pretty close). The same applies to individual seasons, as well. That was my point about DS9 S4.  Mostly very good episodes, and most of the clunkers are still decent.

[Samsara]

I gotta give credit where credit is due, however. The "40MCCoM" descriptor is a classic. 

[Samsara]

Finished Season Six last night. Twenty-five episodes to go. I'll be honest, I had forgotten quite a bit. I knew what happened, and what does ultimately happen in the upcoming season, but I've forgotten all the nuances. All I can say is re-watching from the start has re-affirmed my love for DS9, and my fanboyism for it as the best Trek series ever. Once I finished Season Seven, I have the documentary blu-ray to watch, and then a re-read of several of the extended universe novels (I had most of the extended universe, but had gotten rid of them -- so I purchased a couple omnibus collections, then the Unity novel, to get my feet wet again...and see from there). Pulled my DS9 figure collection out of mothballs to add to my man cave. Looks good. Looking forward to the XL-size Eaglemoss release of the DS9 station as a centerpiece in the collection corner I have for DS9.

I am sure it has been talked about like crazy, but while I "get" why DS9 was always the redheaded stepchild, to me, it made Star Trek more human. Anyway, on to Season Seven.

[hefdaddy42]

I just recently finished up season 7.

Am I the only one who really disliked how it ended?