Author Topic: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality  (Read 7273 times)

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Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2016, 04:07:47 AM »
I'm not so sure the overall response has been that mature. It looks like a constant flood of tweets and posts swearing Swans off as a band, quite gung-ho like. Many have seemed to have taken it as 100% fact that what's been claimed is true.
Yup. Even LieLow's comments are basically "I'd like to think he did nothing wrong, but..." Which is already assuming he did.

And most other responses I've seen are, as you said, completely convinced, RIP Swans, he's a piece of shit and a monster etc, based on a single claim. Which has been refuted by Gira and his wife.

Doesn't surprise me though.

Until there is more to go by, I'm assuming nothing.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2016, 04:33:37 AM »
I like to think innocent until proven otherwise. #inGiraWeTrust

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2016, 05:55:09 AM »
I'm not so sure the overall response has been that mature. It looks like a constant flood of tweets and posts swearing Swans off as a band, quite gung-ho like. Many have seemed to have taken it as 100% fact that what's been claimed is true.
Yup. Even LieLow's comments are basically "I'd like to think he did nothing wrong, but..." Which is already assuming he did.

And most other responses I've seen are, as you said, completely convinced, RIP Swans, he's a piece of shit and a monster etc, based on a single claim. Which has been refuted by Gira and his wife.

Doesn't surprise me though.

Until there is more to go by, I'm assuming nothing.

Reading them they did come off that way. I didn't mean for that. I do believe he is innocent until proven guilty. It's just reading the accusation in general unsettled me a lot.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2016, 08:25:12 AM »
Gira posted that he would make a statement after talking to his lawyer, but after reading what his wife posted I feel more at ease really. Sure, it's not over until it's over, but if she has the evidence she says she has, then this should be no problem.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 09:20:22 AM by Zantera »

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2016, 09:35:20 AM »
Though I do assume nothing to be true yet, I really do hope there is solid evidence to refute these claims.

For something that happened 8 years ago, it seems like there's little chance we'll ever know what really happened, which is quite frustrating. I'm afraid it might just come down to who you want to believe.

I'll wait to see how this plays out, but you gotta wonder whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty".

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #75 on: February 26, 2016, 09:39:51 AM »
I thought someone on Reddit summed it up pretty well:

Quote
The thing is she's actually fucking him much worse with an accusation alone, as opposed to taking him to court (which she clearly won't do - even if he did rape her, it's way too late for such a thing to be proven by the court of law). If there was a legal proceeding, Michael would be found not guilty and regain his musical credibility (most of it at least, there would still be some haters). But by only stating that it happened (and giving a very detailed account at that), this will be a permanent stain on Gira's career and likely the end of Swans as a band.
Unless she changes her mind and tries to get him charged, Gira's only real option now is to sue her for defamation, which is a whole other sticky situation because he will come out of that looking like an asshole, and most of the people siding with Larkin will still believe her story. The only silver lining is that it seems like the new Swans album is just about finished (Gira has already been mixing it for a while), and since he puts this stuff out on his own label he won't have to worry about being dropped or anything like that. What he will have to worry about is all the money he's not gonna make in sales, as well as no more live shows since he won't be able to sell tickets (just look at Mark Kozelek - he's playing 100-200 capacity venues now and just for saying a mean thing about a journalist).

No matter if it's true or false, it's kind of a lose-lose. But if his wife has the evidence that she suggests, it shouldn't be a problem presenting them. I believe Conor Oberst of Bright Eyes faced similar accusations a few years ago and I think he came out of it with the charges dropped.

Offline seasonsinthesky

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2016, 04:23:26 PM »
I'm not so sure the overall response has been that mature. It looks like a constant flood of tweets and posts swearing Swans off as a band, quite gung-ho like. Many have seemed to have taken it as 100% fact that what's been claimed is true.

That's what happens after so many years of rape victims being thrown under the bus.

It's just as asinine to assume he is innocent. Especially given his reputation for insane and sketchy behaviour.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2016, 06:38:13 AM »
I think I lean towards Gira's side now after Siobhan and Heroes Are Gang Leaders' posts on the incident. Really becoming more difficult to believe Larkin.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=412952268875024&id=289559301214322

https://i.imgur.com/JvMSfPG.png
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 07:11:25 AM by LieLowTheWantedMan »

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2016, 07:33:37 AM »
Yeah, all the stuff that's come out in the past day or so does speak in his favour.

Gira really hasn't done himself any favours with his second response to the thing.

In his immediate statement, he was all "slanderous lies".

In the second, he didn't directly dispute any of the facts of what happened as she presented them, actually agreeing with her version of events (though not being clear as to what extent), but he relabelled them an "awkward mistake" and insisted it was consensual. Why didn't he address specific damning facts (she had said repeatedly in the past that she didn't want anything sexual with him, or that she was passed-out drunk, for example) to clear himself if those were actually lies, as Siobhan's account would suggest, rather than appearing to agree with her story?

Considering that post was going to have everyone's attention, he was weirdly vague and unclear, and even appears to admit guilt, for God's sake.

So I'm still waiting til more comes out. Thankfully, there are still a few months til the album.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2016, 07:35:27 AM »
The response read like his lawyer told him to calm himself. It was a very lawyery statement.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2016, 07:43:08 AM »
You could be right. Whereas his wife and ex-wife and HAGL have more flexibility to speak their mind/the truth?

But like I said, still glad there's still a few months to the album.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2016, 07:46:20 AM »
I'm really happy that there seems to be more and more evidence supporting Gira.

No matter how this ends, it won't affect my anticipation for the new album though, and I'll hold Swans just as high as I do now. I obviously hope that he is innocent, but even if the worst case scenario is true, he has still put out some of my favorite albums (some of them after said event) and the quality of the music stands on its own.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2016, 01:55:25 PM »
So, Swans are releasing 'The Glowing Man' for June 17th. Final album from current line-up apparantly.

Quote
Swans' new album "The Glowing Man" is now available for pre order for a June 17th release. All copies sold though the Young God Records web store, as always, will be signed by M.Gira.

Preorder you copy here: https://bit.ly/1TznKrF

Preorder also available though Mute Records in the UK: https://bit.ly/1q1o0nw



I really don't like this album cover. It feels way to similar to 'To Be Kind' for me (I thought that album cover was quite bad as well).

I'm not really a massive fan of Swans myself, but I really like the early 90s albums as well as some of their modern stuff. Unfortunately, early material like 'Filth' annoys me.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2016, 02:32:57 PM »
They could have changed the background color at least.  :lol

Beyond stoked for this, will most likely be AOTY. Swans and Kayo Dot dropping new album information on the same day, now I can die happy.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2016, 02:58:03 PM »
They could have changed the background color at least.  :lol

I find that I hate most of Swans' cover art. The only ones I like are White Light..., Love of Life, My Father... and The Seer (coincidentally probably my 4 favourite Swans albums). Burning World is ok too. The others IMO are too minimalistic / tacky / both.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2016, 03:15:59 PM »
I don't really mind any of them. They're not amazing but they have their style (weird) and most albums fit that theme.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2016, 05:53:18 PM »
Not the first time Swans have done similar album covers, so it doesn't really matter to me. I kinda dig this one.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2016, 04:09:54 AM »
Not the first time Swans have done similar album covers, so it doesn't really matter to me. I kinda dig this one.

Fair enough. I'm just not really a fan of that aesthetic at all.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2016, 03:39:38 PM »
I like how minimal their covers are. Only slightly miffed that it has the same cardboard texture as TBK.

Either way, totally hyped for this release.

Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2016, 05:20:17 PM »

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2016, 02:11:34 AM »
Just dropping in to give some praise to White Light... and Love of Life :hefdaddy

Offline Sacul

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2016, 09:19:47 AM »
New song is pretty nice, kind of expected it to explode, but I guess it's probably a calm moment among 2 hours of brutal music.

Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2016, 02:37:43 PM »
The Glowing Man is fucking great.

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2016, 05:49:35 PM »
^It's phenomenal. The Bring the Sun callback in the title track is :metal :metal :metal Still need to digest it more but looove this.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2016, 05:25:22 AM »
A O T Y

confirmed

EDIT: Title track might be their best song holy shit
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 06:46:38 AM by Zantera »

Offline Sacul

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2016, 10:28:59 PM »
The Glowing Man is fucking great.
This. Will very likely end up in my top 5, or top 10 of year at least.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #96 on: June 11, 2016, 02:13:24 AM »
First I didn't think that To Be Kind would top The Seer, which it did, and now I didn't think The Glowing Man would top To Be Kind but it probably did. Swans is definitely the best band that are still active and currently making music. It's a great time to be alive.  :metal

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #97 on: June 14, 2016, 06:09:45 AM »
I still like To Be Kind more, but The Glowing Man has pretty solidly beat out The Seer for me at this point. And it'll probably grow more so we'll see what happens! Swans are the best. Gira is a genius.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #98 on: June 14, 2016, 08:20:27 AM »
It's too early for me to rank it, but initial feeling is the same for me, better than The Seer but To Be Kind has a slight edge. Still, we're talking 3 amazing albums in a row.

Offline Elite

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2016, 11:42:07 AM »
I'm on my way to see Swans live for the first time ever. They're playing my mothr's hometown, so I figured I could go, even though I'm not completely familiar with their music. Having Anna von Hausswolff as the opener definitely helps, as I adore her. I have no idea what to expect, but I suppose it will be good. Apparently these guys regularly play for 3 hours straight. I guess I'm in for one hell of an experience!
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Swans v. 30 years of pure brutality
« Reply #100 on: October 07, 2016, 12:07:57 PM »
Really should have gone to a show last time they were around my area.

So after giving it some time, The Glowing Man has grown on me a lot. As far as this trilogy of albums go,

1. The Seer
2. The Glowing Man
3. To Be Kind

I know generally most people regard TBK as the greatest of the 3, but given time and distance and then coming back to it, I feel like it has a lot of moments that meander around a lot, and not always in an engaging or interesting way. It's still a great album for sure, with Bring the Sun/Toussaint being among the greatest tracks of the trilogy overall.