Author Topic: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.  (Read 134349 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 1253
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1015 on: October 10, 2016, 06:45:01 AM »
Trump did much better than last debate.  But man did he whine and complain a lot to the moderators.  And it looked like he was cowering over her in many angles...weird kind of.

Essentially it was a draw.  Which means Trump lost, as he needs undecided voters to move to him.  He just preached to his conservative base and shored that front up, but that wont be enough to win.  He needed to move the needle tonight, and the needle didn't move.

Agreed, "draw" was a good way to describe how it felt. Though Clinton is going to win the post-debate, because Trump basically lied all night, especially when it came to Clinton's past. I doubt Trump's line of assault wins over moderate people, who aren't as averse to fact checking as people just throw their support behind Trump for emotional reasons.

I was also chilled at the remark Trump made about prosecuting Clinton. Is this what our democracy has come to - one side promising to prosecute their political opponents? Yuck.

Edit: I know this type of rhetoric has long had a place in the extreme wings of both candidates, but it's pretty unprecedented to hear a nominee say it, right?

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 1253
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1016 on: October 10, 2016, 06:53:11 AM »
In case anyone cares... https://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/factchecking-the-second-presidential-debate/

Clinton exaggerated when she said the U.S. was now “energy independent.” The country imported 11 percent of total energy consumed in 2015.

Trump falsely said he never tweeted “check out a sex tape” in the wee hours of the morning a few days after the first presidential debate. He did.

Trump told Clinton “after getting the subpoena” to turn over documents related to the Benghazi investigation “you delete 33,000 emails.” A contractor managing Clinton’s server deleted the emails. There is no evidence Clinton knew when they were deleted.

Trump also said Clinton’s emails were “acid washed,” calling it a “very expensive process.” Neither statement is true. The emails were deleted using a free software program that does not involve the use of chemicals.

Clinton said there is “no evidence that anyone hacked the server I was using.” That is true, but the FBI said it was “possible” that her email system was hacked because she sent and received emails in “the territory of sophisticated adversaries.”

Clinton said intelligence officials said this week that Russians were behind political hacking attacks in the U.S. Trump said, “She doesn’t know if Russia is doing the hacking.” Clinton is closer to the truth.

Clinton claimed she was holding up Abraham Lincoln as an example of leadership when she defended “back room” deals. Turns out, she did.
Trump distorted the facts about a rape case that Clinton was involved in as a legal aid lawyer in 1975, wrongly accusing Clinton of “laughing at” the victim.

Both candidates distorted the other’s tax plan. Trump said Clinton was “raising everybody’s taxes massively,” when two analyses concluded almost all of the tax increases she proposes would fall on the top 10 percent. And Clinton claimed Trump’s plan “would end up raising taxes on middle class families.” Some families would see increased taxes, but on average middle-income taxpayers would get a tax cut.

Trump wrongly claimed that Clinton’s 2008 campaign manager said on TV that the campaign had started the false rumor that Obama was not born in the U.S.

Trump wrongly claimed that Clinton wanted to implement a government-run, “single-payer,” health care system, like Canada’s, and he cherry-picked high proposed premium increases in the Affordable Care Act exchanges.

Clinton went too far in saying an ACA provision to allow young adults to stay on their parents plans until age 26 was “something that didn’t happen before.” At least 31 states had similar provisions before the law was enacted.

Trump said that “Ambassador [Chris] Stevens sent 600 requests for help” before he was killed in an attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya, in September 2012. But not all 600 were requests for security upgrades, nor were they all from Stevens.

The candidates disagreed over Clinton’s role in a U.S. response to Syrian President Bashar Assad’s use of chemical weapons. Both had a point. Clinton was in office when President Obama said Assad’s use of chemical weapons would cross a “red line for us,” but she was gone when Obama failed to back up his threat.

Clinton claimed that since the Great Recession the gains have all gone to the top, but a 2016 economic report said that in 2014 and 2015 “the incomes of bottom 99% families have finally started recovering in earnest.”

Trump again claimed without evidence that “many people saw the bombs all over the apartment” of the San Bernardino shooters.

Offline kaos2900

  • Posts: 2622
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1017 on: October 10, 2016, 07:11:33 AM »
I'm so sick of this race. I know I say that every four years, but this one takes the cake. This entire discussion, whether it be on the news, on the debate stage, amongst friends, and this thread has become toxic. The internet as a whole has become a less enjoyable place because of these two pieces of shit. There is hate and misery everywhere. No matter what the topic, it seems to always devolve into shit slinging discussion of these two sorry excuses of potential free world leaders. Perfect example from a review thread for a DT show; "We were front and center, and my kids loved the whole experience. I was close enough to JP and JL at times to greet them like Trump greets random women. But I am civilized, so I kept my hands to myself. ". For fuck's sake. I can't stand it.

Nobody 'won' last night's debate. Trump had some zingers, Clinton made some very important points that fell on deaf ears, but ultimately, all of America lost last night. Neither of these people deserve the title of President of the United States of America. Nothing new was said. Everything 'debated' was the same six talking points we've been discussing for the last year. The amount of lying and complete and utter bullshit from both sides of that stage last night should sicken every citizen in this country.

I was literally going to post pretty much what you said. Nobody one last night and our country lost.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22765
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1018 on: October 10, 2016, 07:44:13 AM »
I'm going to guess a lot of hillary haters loved how Trump threatened to have Hillary arrested if he becomes President, but seriously, if he were to win (which is not going to happen) then I would really hope he doesn't focus one more second on Hillary.

Trump lost this election back when Hillary said she was going to run, but he really hurt himself this weekend to pretty much end any hope of winning the election.  He needed an amazing night last night.  I thought he did fairly well considering his weekend, but certainly not enough to win over any voters.  His only hope is for wikileaks to drop a bombshell.  The speech emails from wikileaks seemed like nothing either that I wouldn't of expected so there was no bombshell there. 

Offline Implode

  • Lord of the Squids
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 5600
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1019 on: October 10, 2016, 07:48:29 AM »
I agree with you, Chino. Every week it just gets worse and worse. I just want it all to be over.

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 1253
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1020 on: October 10, 2016, 08:27:50 AM »
I think Trump did far worse than Clinton, using the 2nd debate to remind the world of 90s tabloid stories that have, in essence, been long discredited. And he seemed very confused on policy issues, especially foreign policy.

But one thing that peeved me about Clinton was the paper thin houlier than thou attitude. She kept saying things like "I'd love to get to policy and talk about the great things I want to do," and then going back to Trump's tape or one of the other side stories. At one point she even said [sic] "when they go low, you go high" but I felt like she spent most of the night swinging low, just like Trump.

Regardless of what Clinton says, her campaign strategy is centered around attacking Trump on these nebulous things, rather than winning a policy discussion. Unfortunate, because I think pragmatic policy discussions are absolutely one of Clinton's strengths, and Trump would not be able to touch her in a policy debate. 


Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22765
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1021 on: October 10, 2016, 08:34:33 AM »
And he seemed very confused on policy issues, especially foreign policy.

Yea, he looked really bad on foreign policy last night.  I think we all knew he would be bad on this, Clinton should have attacked more here.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22577
  • Bad Craziness
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1022 on: October 10, 2016, 08:36:48 AM »
Nothing to say about the debate. I didn't bother with that nonsense. What I can safely say is that Trump is defeated, though it's doubtful he realizes it. FOX ran an article Saturday night about the harm he's doing to embattled incumbents that was extraordinary. Not for the data they doled out, I disagreed with their findings, but for the simple fact that they ran the article at all. They were highlighting GOP races where he's being asked to stay away.
Quote
The advisory advertised Ryan’s appearance at the “1st Congressional District Republican Party of Wisconsin Fall Fest” on Saturday in Walworth County.

In the second paragraph, the missive declared that Ryan would “be joined by Senator Ron Johnson, Governor Scott Walker, Attorney General Brad Schimel, Treasurer Matt Adamcyzk and Wisconsin State Party Chairman Brad Courtney.”

That Trump would also attend the event was entombed way down in the third paragraph, perhaps suggesting some third-rate hanger-on also wanted to make the scene.

“Donald J. Trump will also join Wisconsin Republicans at the 1st Congressional District Republican Party of Wisconsin Fall Fest,” read the statement.

Talk about burying the lede.

The release then instructed reporters to contact “the Trump campaign” with questions about the nominee’s appearance.

Did you ever feel like you were unwelcome someplace?

 I think the snatch-grabbing thing is overblown, but it was the linchpin for keeping the party together. The fact that the pin got pulled so suddenly and that even FOX is no longer working for his election leads me to believe that he's officially lost the GOP as a party. I find it unlikely that Pence was actually wanting to dump him, but Trump's enough of a pariah now that the discussion was probably had. In any case, he's a lone wolf candidate now, and I don't think he can improve upon his campaign anymore.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/08/damaging-trump-tape-cast-even-more-uncertainty-on-house-senate-races.html
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22765
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1023 on: October 10, 2016, 08:42:53 AM »
I don't think he can improve upon his campaign anymore.

Totally agreed.  I think the GOP was always looking for that bombshell reason to separate from him.  They got it.  Only way he wins now is if a bigger bombshell comes out against Clinton, which I see as unlikely.  Trump by himself, cannot win this election. 

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5461
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1024 on: October 10, 2016, 08:45:31 AM »
But one thing that peeved me about Clinton was the paper thin houlier than thou attitude. She kept saying things like "I'd love to get to policy and talk about the great things I want to do," and then going back to Trump's tape or one of the other side stories. At one point she even said [sic] "when they go low, you go high" but I felt like she spent most of the night swinging low, just like Trump.

Regardless of what Clinton says, her campaign strategy is centered around attacking Trump on these nebulous things, rather than winning a policy discussion. Unfortunate, because I think pragmatic policy discussions are absolutely one of Clinton's strengths, and Trump would not be able to touch her in a policy debate.

Good post, great points. I totally agree about Clinton focusing on policy. I'm not sure why she isn't doing more of that in these debates, whether you agree with her points on policy or not, she certainly seems to be capable of communicating her policy ideas more clearly than Trump, but last night she again failed to do that. Instead, it was just mud slinging back and forth.

Oh and I thought the "they go low, you go high" thing was laughable. Taking the high road is commendable, but I've yet to see either of these candidates do that, lots of irony there, especially since the bulk of Hilary's ad space has been used to tear Trump up hard. 

Offline pogoowner

  • Pancake Bunny
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2872
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1025 on: October 10, 2016, 11:01:44 AM »
I watched the whole thing. I shouldn't have. The moment that really made me say "Wow," was when Trump said he hadn't spoken to Pence and that he disagreed with him. I'm sure Pence is thrilled. :lol

Offline Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 28879
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1026 on: October 10, 2016, 12:10:39 PM »
I also find it really sad that we have started to decide who gets our vote based on who gets the most "zingers" during a debate.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 30712
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1027 on: October 10, 2016, 12:31:58 PM »
Like Trump would have a zinger. They'd make him fat(ter), and we know he hates overweight people.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1028 on: October 10, 2016, 12:45:00 PM »
Didn't see it. Highlights?

He held a press conference 2 hours before the debate, with 4 women.  3 are ones who accused Bill Clinton of assault/rape/etc.  The 4th was involved in a child abuse/rape case where Hillary was the court appointed public defender.

I personally find it a reality show type stunt.  But I also find it offensive taking political advantage of these women and their situation.  He was blatantly using them.


Hahahaha.

That's politics.  Chris Murphy, Jr. Scumbag Senator from Connecticut, Joe Biden, Obama... all paraded the poor victims' families from Sandy Hook around like deer in headlights to pimp their latest iteration of gun control, and they didn't lose a minutes sleep over it.  If those women want to stand up for Donald J. Trump, that's their perogative.   

Frankly, I think Trump's behavior is juvenile (no, NOT all men talk that way) but it's a red herring; it doesn't go one step toward indicating whether or not he's capable or qualified to be President (though I don't think he is). 

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1029 on: October 10, 2016, 12:49:49 PM »


Nobody 'won' last night's debate. Trump had some zingers, Clinton made some very important points that fell on deaf ears, but ultimately, all of America lost last night. Neither of these people deserve the title of President of the United States of America. Nothing new was said. Everything 'debated' was the same six talking points we've been discussing for the last year. The amount of lying and complete and utter bullshit from both sides of that stage last night should sicken every citizen in this country.

Put this on a t-shirt and I'd buy a box of them.   Fuck yeah, Chino.  This isn't "bias", it's not "lesser of two evils", it's just embarrassing from what is (or at least should be) the most democratic (in the secular sense of the word) of elections this world knows.   

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37078
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1030 on: October 10, 2016, 12:52:51 PM »
I couldn't stand how much time they wasted on it. What a waste. The only news was the other GOP folks withdrawing their support for fear that THEY would lose the support of women in their own backyards.

I was just waiting for Trump to say, you know what, I'm an asshole (which would set up the inevitable "that's the first truth you said tonight".)

There cannot be anyone surprised by what they heard on those tapes can there?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1031 on: October 10, 2016, 12:59:56 PM »
Two observations from last night:

One, love or hate Trump (full disclosure, I dislike and am not voting for him, despite being a Republican), he does expose Clinton for what she is: the quintessential politician.   Smarmy, sanctimonious and pandering.   "I can tell you work in the industry, or at least have someone close to you that does!".   Not saying any of that is "good" or "bad" per se, just that it is.

Two, I know, unequivocally, that Trump lost last night.  Not because of his answers, not because of his interruptions, not because of his scattered monologues, not because of his stalking Clinton on the stage (I noted to my wife that it could only be described as "predatorial").  But because at the end, when the group came out to the floor, he went and huddled with his family, took a few selfies with fake smile and a thumbs up, and left.  Melania LITERALLY did not say a word to any human that wasn't named "TRUMP" in that time.   Contrast with the Clintons: Bill went around to EVERY person that asked a question and followed up with a more detailed answer.  Including the new internet sensation, Ken Bone.   They worked that room like seasons political professionals - which is exactly what they are.   Now, that was just 15 people, but that is indicative of the effort, the involvement and the attention to detail that is going to win in 30 some-odd days.   THAT'S called "Ground Game", and it beat Romney when he thought he was 10 points ahead a week before the election, and it's going to crush Trump who's five points (plus or minus) down with a month to go.  I saw it too in Philly when Hillary was fighting Obama in the primaries in '08, and then again (times two) when Obama was going up against McCain in the general. 

THIS is the impact of Trump on the GOP and why the party is in disarray. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 07:37:28 AM by Stadler »

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37078
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1032 on: October 10, 2016, 01:09:25 PM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22765
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1033 on: October 10, 2016, 01:13:33 PM »
Two, I know, unequivocally, that Trump lost last night.

100% agreed.

(I noted to my wife that it could only be described as "predatorial"). 

Yes, he very much looked like he was trying to physically intimidate her.

Melania LITERALLY did not say a word to any human that wasn't named "TRUMP" in that time.   

Yup, she visibly looked unhappy with her husband and that's understandable.

Offline pogoowner

  • Pancake Bunny
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2872
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1034 on: October 10, 2016, 01:18:01 PM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?
I like the idea of Johnson/Weld much more than I actually like Johnson/Weld. Johnson doesn't do a good job when he's interviewed, period. I don't mind his goofy sense of humor. He just comes across as straight up unprepared when he's questioned. And if he's not putting in the effort during his campaign, why would I want him as president? If there was a third party option that I truly believed in, I would vote for them, but there isn't. So despite not liking any of the candidates, I will be voting for Clinton.

Offline Adami

  • Moderator of awesomeness
  • *
  • Posts: 28879
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1035 on: October 10, 2016, 01:19:50 PM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?

This is my first time voting (in an American election) so I will be doing it. Not voting for Johnson though.

As of now, still have research to do though, I'll be voting for Jill Stein .
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 41143
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1036 on: October 10, 2016, 03:43:19 PM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?
1. They would be better off if it was Weld/Johnson

2. No way in hell would I EVER consider not voting.  It's not like the Presidential election is the only thing to vote on. 

Senate and Congress elections are important
Governor elections are important.
Other state and local elections are important.

So go vote.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37078
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1037 on: October 10, 2016, 03:45:07 PM »
They would be better off if it was Weld/Johnson

So true.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Back for the Attack
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 41143
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1038 on: October 10, 2016, 03:49:13 PM »
Warren Buffett Fires Back at Donald Trump on Taxes

Quote
“I have paid federal income tax every year since 1944, when I was 13,” Buffett said in a statement that detailed his tax information from 2015. “I have copies of all 72 of my returns and none uses a carryforward.”

“I have been audited by the IRS multiple times and am currently being audited,” Buffett said. “I have no problem in releasing my tax information while under audit. Neither would Mr. Trump—at least he would have no legal problem.”
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22577
  • Bad Craziness
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1039 on: October 10, 2016, 05:17:00 PM »
Eh, what does he know.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline eric42434224

  • Posts: 3545
  • Gender: Male
  • Wilson
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1040 on: October 10, 2016, 05:43:03 PM »
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6896
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1041 on: October 11, 2016, 01:24:51 AM »
They would be better off if it was Weld/Johnson

So true.

Agreed, Weld seems more knowledgeable and doesn't let off that goofy vibe Johnson does.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Prog Snob

  • Posts: 16681
  • Gender: Male
  • In the end we're left infinitely and utterly alone
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1042 on: October 11, 2016, 05:36:54 AM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?
1. They would be better off if it was Weld/Johnson

2. No way in hell would I EVER consider not voting.  It's not like the Presidential election is the only thing to vote on. 

Senate and Congress elections are important
Governor elections are important.
Other state and local elections are important.

So go vote.

Yes!

I'm one of those people who thinks if you don't vote then shut your mouth. It's quite simple really. I think we can all reasonably assume that there are probably thousands, tens of thousands, of people with the mentality that their vote doesn't count. Tens of thousands of votes will make a pretty big difference. Maybe not in the Presidential election but in some of the others you mentioned. So...

« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 11:24:34 AM by Prog Snob »

Offline mikeyd23

  • Posts: 5461
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1043 on: October 11, 2016, 07:07:37 AM »
Warren Buffett Fires Back at Donald Trump on Taxes

Quote
“I have paid federal income tax every year since 1944, when I was 13,” Buffett said in a statement that detailed his tax information from 2015. “I have copies of all 72 of my returns and none uses a carryforward.”

“I have been audited by the IRS multiple times and am currently being audited,” Buffett said. “I have no problem in releasing my tax information while under audit. Neither would Mr. Trump—at least he would have no legal problem.”

Yeah I saw this a little while ago. He really doesn't say anything here we didn't know, does he? Trump never said Buffett didn't pay taxes, that would be illegal. He simply said that Buffett uses similar loopholes like Trump. Buffett doesn't deny that here, he just states he doesn't use a carry-forward. There are lots of other ways for guys like Buffett to work the tax system. Also, we know Trump has been audited a lot by the IRS and hasn't been charged with tax evasion or anything like that, so clearly whatever he is doing is legal. Not sure I understand the point of the quote.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 22765
  • Gender: Male
    • The Home of cramx3
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1044 on: October 11, 2016, 07:43:43 AM »
More wikileaks, and while some of it looks bad, none of it looks like be devastating like the Trump chat from last week although the one line from John Podesta that Hillary "has begun to hate everyday Americans" is pretty bad, just not bad enough.  Wikileaks needs more than this if they want to bring Hillary down.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1045 on: October 11, 2016, 07:45:21 AM »
Two, I know, unequivocally, that Trump lost last night.

100% agreed.

For the record, when I said "unequivocally lost last night" I meant the overall election.   I could care less who "won the debate"; it's an impossible measure and purely arbitrary and subjective.    Plus, it matters naught; by all accounts Romney SLAUGHTERED Obama in their first debate.   How was President Romney's first term for you all?  Exactly...

Quote from: Cram3x

Yup, she visibly looked unhappy with her husband and that's understandable.

I think she always looks that way.  She's beautiful, in a still photography, "magazine cover" way, but to watch her, she isn't... elegant or warm, for lack of a better word.  There are some women that are pretty, objectively, but when you watch them in person they have a grace, and elegance and openness and warmth that is very attractive, in the action sense of the word (meaning, it draws you in).  I remember running into - literally; my friend and I were racing through the aisles like juveniles - Jaclyn Smith from the old Charlie's Angels in a market in Los Angeles back in '91 or so.  Grey sweats, almost no makeup, and when she looked at me and said "Excuse me" it was so... it was like a plate of French toast smothered in hot syrup wrapped in a warm blanket with fuzzy slippers on and Miles Davis playing on the jukebox.  I was literally speechless.  I didn't say a word and ran off down the aisle.   My wife calls it "Bitch Face"TM but it's more than that.     

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1046 on: October 11, 2016, 07:48:50 AM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?
I like the idea of Johnson/Weld much more than I actually like Johnson/Weld. Johnson doesn't do a good job when he's interviewed, period. I don't mind his goofy sense of humor. He just comes across as straight up unprepared when he's questioned. And if he's not putting in the effort during his campaign, why would I want him as president? If there was a third party option that I truly believed in, I would vote for them, but there isn't. So despite not liking any of the candidates, I will be voting for Clinton.

As someone who would prefer to vote for the Libertarian candidate as a general proposition, I don't mind a goofy sense of humor either, but I think Johnson is just goofy in general.   I don't need the fake gravitas that Hillary projects as a matter of course, but I do expect a seriousness about the issues themselves, and I think Johnson has too much of a "details, details" air about him.  He's smart, I'm sure he can grasp them, but at some point - and I have the same critique of Trump, by the way - if you have a true interest in a subject, the smartest among us seem to accumulate information about it as a matter of course, and he doesn't seem to do that. 


Offline Chino

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 21431
  • Gender: Male
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1047 on: October 11, 2016, 07:56:08 AM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?
I like the idea of Johnson/Weld much more than I actually like Johnson/Weld. Johnson doesn't do a good job when he's interviewed, period. I don't mind his goofy sense of humor. He just comes across as straight up unprepared when he's questioned. And if he's not putting in the effort during his campaign, why would I want him as president? If there was a third party option that I truly believed in, I would vote for them, but there isn't. So despite not liking any of the candidates, I will be voting for Clinton.

As someone who would prefer to vote for the Libertarian candidate as a general proposition, I don't mind a goofy sense of humor either, but I think Johnson is just goofy in general.   I don't need the fake gravitas that Hillary projects as a matter of course, but I do expect a seriousness about the issues themselves, and I think Johnson has too much of a "details, details" air about him.  He's smart, I'm sure he can grasp them, but at some point - and I have the same critique of Trump, by the way - if you have a true interest in a subject, the smartest among us seem to accumulate information about it as a matter of course, and he doesn't seem to do that.

I think Johnson is a very smart man who's down to Earth and kind. I've watched several interviews with him, and I thought he was pretty well spoken when Maher had him on a few months ago. He's just not up to date with stuff, and if he's not directly involved with something as part of his job, he has no knowledge of it whatsoever.

I don't think he does well under pressure, unfortunately. I don't believe for a second that he didn't know Kim Jong Un is the leader of North Korea. I think he just brain farts really easily. I did like his response to the Aleppo debacle though. He said something like "Hey, if I can't find a country on a map, at least I can't bomb it".   :lol

The world as a whole is too much for him, but I think he's a good asset to local governments.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1048 on: October 11, 2016, 08:12:12 AM »
How does everyone feel about:
1. Johnson/Weld?
2. Not voting at all?
1. They would be better off if it was Weld/Johnson

2. No way in hell would I EVER consider not voting.  It's not like the Presidential election is the only thing to vote on. 

Senate and Congress elections are important
Governor elections are important.
Other state and local elections are important.

So go vote.

Yes!

I'm one of those people who thinks if you don't vote then shut your mouth. It's quite simple really. I think we can all reasonably assume that there are probably thousands, tens of thousands, of people with the mentality that their vote doesn't count. Tens of thousands of votes will make a pretty big difference. Maybe not in the Presidential election but in some of the others you mentioned. So...

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/55947353.jpg


The most important thing to remember - and I am speaking to myself as much as anyone here - is that even if you cannot find it in your heart to vote Trump - and I can't - you can still voice your support for Republican platform issues and express your discontent with the lawlessness and blatant opportunism of the Clinton campaign by voting for the rest of the candidates in your district. 

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18057
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2017!
Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #1049 on: October 11, 2016, 08:17:04 AM »
Warren Buffett Fires Back at Donald Trump on Taxes

Quote
“I have paid federal income tax every year since 1944, when I was 13,” Buffett said in a statement that detailed his tax information from 2015. “I have copies of all 72 of my returns and none uses a carryforward.”

“I have been audited by the IRS multiple times and am currently being audited,” Buffett said. “I have no problem in releasing my tax information while under audit. Neither would Mr. Trump—at least he would have no legal problem.”

Yeah I saw this a little while ago. He really doesn't say anything here we didn't know, does he? Trump never said Buffett didn't pay taxes, that would be illegal. He simply said that Buffett uses similar loopholes like Trump. Buffett doesn't deny that here, he just states he doesn't use a carry-forward. There are lots of other ways for guys like Buffett to work the tax system. Also, we know Trump has been audited a lot by the IRS and hasn't been charged with tax evasion or anything like that, so clearly whatever he is doing is legal. Not sure I understand the point of the quote.

Bear in mind that different incomes get treated in different ways from a tax perspective.   Some depreciation deductions and such don't apply to every "billionaire" equally.  It also depends a lot on how the compensation comes from the companies these guys run.  Trump and Buffett may be completely legitimate and completely truthful in what they say, and yet have different outcomes.

As for the audit, Buffett's no fool, and no idiot.  He's saying something very direct to Donald, but it's also disingenuous.  Trump admitted there is no LAW preventing him from disclosing, but rather he is operating on advise of his attorney.  I can tell you from over 20 years as a practicing attorney, in various fields, if you go to 10 different attorneys, you might get anywhere from 7 to 10 different opinions on how to proceed.