Official NHL 2016-2017 Thread

[TAC]

Although....I'm over Subbans 'antics'. I'm sure it's neat when he's your player but he's utterly annoying at this point.

Welcome to our world. Though he's not half of the ass hat he was when he was with Montreal.

[KevShmev]

Subban is the classic player you hate if he's not on your team, but love him if he is.  There is no denying the guy is a heckuva player, regardless.

[SchecterShredder]

The crowd here singing the American anthem due to a mic malfunction was surreal.

Wow, that was awesome. Just figured they always did that.

No.  We usually do it with our anthem, but that was a first.

[Jarlaxle]

Although....I'm over Subbans 'antics'. I'm sure it's neat when he's your player but he's utterly annoying at this point.

Welcome to our world. Though he's not half of the ass hat he was when he was with Montreal.

gotta hate it when a guy's exuberance for the sport shows through in his personality

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

^That was super cool!

When you trade away your star defenseman in his prime for a markedly worse player with a bad contract who will only continue to get worse and he leads his new team to a 6-1 record to start the playoffs while playing injured.

Subban? We have different opinions of 'leading' then

Exaggerating with the leading comment, but he's been incredible.

Nashvilles D men are the only reason they're where they're at right now.

Although....I'm over Subbans 'antics'. I'm sure it's neat when he's your player but he's utterly annoying at this point.

Nashville has the best top 4 defense in the league by far. It's pretty insane.

And yeah, Subban can definitely be hateable if he isn't on your team. One of my favourite players but I won't deny he tends to dive and can be a dirty player.

Although....I'm over Subbans 'antics'. I'm sure it's neat when he's your player but he's utterly annoying at this point.

Welcome to our world. Though he's not half of the ass hat he was when he was with Montreal.

He's the same as ever. It just isn't as in-your-face because he's on a less publicized team. I love him regardless though.

[gmillerdrake]

Subban is the classic player you hate if he's not on your team, but love him if he is.  There is no denying the guy is a heckuva player, regardless.

Totally. Would love to have him but we don't so I 'hate' him.

[jingle.boy]

Subban is a top-shelf person.  The stuff he does for Children's charities and hospitals off the ice is phenomenal.

[gmillerdrake]

Subban is a top-shelf person.  The stuff he does for Children's charities and hospitals off the ice is phenomenal.

No need for this type of talk Chad. Can't you just let me be angry and take my frustrations about the Blues dickimg the dog and playing like crap out on a superstar player who I'd love to have on my team but don't. Jeez....

Subban big bad man.

[mikeyd23]

I'm beyond pumped the Pens were able to go into Washington and take the first two.... Not counting the Caps out yet, but I was simply hoping for a split of the first two games.

Sid is playing other worldly right now. Two goals in the first game, and he was the primary assist on two in the second game. The shift where he goes down in front of a puck to block it, shovels it ahead to Jake for the goal, awesome stuff.

[Nick]

Recapping the last few days:

NUMBER TWO PICK, FUCK YES!

Non-Flyers fans might not recall, but we got fucked over by the lottery years ago, missing out on Patrick Kane. We did get an amazing player in James Van Riemsdyk at #2, but in one of the worst 1 for 1 trades in the history of the franchise we later sent him to Toronto for Luke Schenn. Fuck you very much on that one Chad.

On the Rangers, what a collapse by them the other night. Kinda felt like even if they got that last goal and won they would still feel down in the series. I really do think the teams are evenly matched, and it could still go either way, but if Ottawa can come out in game 3, and push the Rangers hard, maybe get them down two goals in the first period then that series will be over.

I'll be watching the Pens game tonight with my Pens fan friend, so if Washington could win that would be excellent. Frankly the series doesn't look too good. It's not that I think the Caps haven't played well, they have, but even playing their best might not be enough at this point. You can marginally outplay your opponent from here on out, but even if you do that doesn't mean you'll win 4 of 5 games. And the *really* shitty part (as a Flyers fan) is that if the Caps don't beat the Penguins, I don't think the Senators are going to do it if they move on.

Out West, lots of fun games, especially when you're less invested in the teams. I've expected Nashville to go deeper in other playoffs and they've faltered, and now this year I wasn't expecting too much from them and they are clearly blowing everyone away with their play. I still like the Blues team, and I like Yeo, but I still can't get over the fact that they were in the playoffs and traded a player away at the deadline. Just not a move from a team who thinks they are going to win. If Nashville keeps playing the way they have so far I don't think the Blues can step up big enough to take it away, so Nashville is in control of their destiny.

Oilers are fun and scary to root for. Everyone thought they were going in the right direction this year, but not to the cup. They've looked like a team that could go, and then they're the only teams to lose a game by 7 goals, or probably 6 or 5 goals I would think.

[TAC]

NUMBER TWO PICK, FUCK YES!

Thought of you, Nick while watching the Draft Lottery.

We did get an amazing player in James Van Riemsdyk at #2, but in one of the worst 1 for 1 trades in the history of the franchise we later sent him to Toronto for Luke Schenn. 

Such a bad trade. I remember asking you WTF when it happened.

[jingle.boy]

NUMBER TWO PICK, FUCK YES!

Thought of you, Nick while watching the Draft Lottery.

Moi aussi

We did get an amazing player in James Van Riemsdyk at #2, but in one of the worst 1 for 1 trades in the history of the franchise we later sent him to Toronto for Luke Schenn. 

Such a bad trade. I remember asking you WTF when it happened.

What was the problem again?  Holmgren did the charitable and humanitarian thing reuniting the Schenn brothers.

[TAC]

Moi aussi

Not sure what Brent or Kade would be doing in the hockey thread, but..ok.

[jingle.boy]

Moi aussi

Not sure what Brent or Kade would be doing in the hockey thread, but..ok.

FRANÇAIS MOTHER FUCKER.  PARLEZ-VOUS??

[SchecterShredder]

Moi aussi

Not sure what Brent or Kade would be doing in the hockey thread, but..ok.

FRANÇAIS MOTHER FUCKER.  PARLEZ-VOUS??

Les chances sont pire. Seulement nous Canadiens peut parlez en francais ici.

[Rattlehead]

C'est pas vrai, je suis americain et je parle francais. Ma femme est francaise et j'ai habité en France pendant 2 ans. 

[TAC]

Yeah, um, so anyway..




I actually took 3 years of French in high school.

[TAC]

I hope Crosby is OK.

[Hyperplex]

What a fucking comeback. I love playoff hockey.

[mikeyd23]

I'm going to refrain from posting a lot of the angry thoughts I have about that game and choose to focus on the positives.

Even after their captain went down, this Pens team was still able to battle back and force OT. They still have a one game lead, and still have a good team even without Sid. They are by no means out of it, this just makes things a little harder.

[gmillerdrake]

I hope Crosby is OK.

Been watching this replay over and over....I know there is bad blood and all between those two teams but I honestly don't think that looked like an intentional shot to the head. If you watch it at real time it was just a culmination of factors and timing that ended in a horrible situation. They were going to collide and it looked like the Caps player was bracing for it....Crosby was falling....it just was a bang bang play.

I'm going to refrain from posting a lot of the angry thoughts I have about that game and choose to focus on the positives.

You're a better man than I....

[mikeyd23]

I hope Crosby is OK.

Been watching this replay over and over....I know there is bad blood and all between those two teams but I honestly don't think that looked like an intentional shot to the head. If you watch it at real time it was just a culmination of factors and timing that ended in a horrible situation. They were going to collide and it looked like the Caps player was bracing for it....Crosby was falling....it just was a bang bang play.

I'm going to refrain from posting a lot of the angry thoughts I have about that game and choose to focus on the positives.

You're a better man than I....

There's just so much that I could say...

My main issues can be summed up as such (1) Nisky and this Caps team were essentially building up to this. Matt was going at Sid all series long, last night was the unfortunate culmination. (2) I hate to sound like a moaning fan, but the league has to start calling games tighter or it's going to eventually die. I'm not asking for radical rule changes, I'm just asking them to call the rules on the book, every time, regardless of score and situation. Simply doing that would open up the game, generate more scoring (which is what people want to see) and protect the stars of the league (which is also what people pay to come see).

That hit can't be looked at in a vacuum because I watched the Caps push toward those dirty hits more and more throughout the first two games and when they realized they could get away with them, things escalated. It's just disheartening as a Pens fan to watch the best player in the world get tripped/hooked start to fall, get cross-checked in the head horribly, and then for the coach of that team to call it "a hockey play" in post-game. I get you can't throw your guys under the bus, but you perpetuate  the problem by normalizing those plays and hits.

[jingle.boy]

I actually took 3 years of French in high school.

Ha!  Two more years than I did.   

As for the Niskinen hit... I agree with Gary, looked like he was ready to give Sid a shot, and then Ovie's double slash (you see the torque on Ovie's stick!) caused Sid to slip, and unfortunately Niskinen's stick was right at Sid's head.  Niskinen never separates his hands like you would often see if someone was planning on throwing a bit of a cross-check.  It blows - I always want to watch the best players, but I don't think it deserved a match penalty, and hope it doesn't result in a suspension.

Man, if the Caps lost that one, they're confidence would be blown for certain - up 2 with 2 to play, and then lose to go down 3-0?  That would've been the end of a lot of people in Washington.  Amazing the difference one goal can make.

It's just a shame it had to come from the stick of The Shat.

[mikeyd23]

As for the Niskinen hit... I agree with Gary, looked like he was ready to give Sid a shot, and then Ovie's double slash (you see the torque on Ovie's stick!) caused Sid to slip, and unfortunately Niskinen's stick was right at Sid's head.  Niskinen never separates his hands like you would often see if someone was planning on throwing a bit of a cross-check.  It blows - I always want to watch the best players, but I don't think it deserved a match penalty, and hope it doesn't result in a suspension.

Man, if the Caps lost that one, they're confidence would be blown for certain - up 2 with 2 to play, and then lose to go down 3-0?  That would've been the end of a lot of people in Washington.  Amazing the difference one goal can make.

It's just a shame it had to come from the stick of The Shat.

I believe a cross check to the head that results in injury is an automatic major.

Agreed on the Shat scoring the OT winner though, true shame.

[Jarlaxle]

As a Pens fan, Niskanen probably deserved the match penalty because it no doubt looks bad at high speed, but because of how injured Crosby appeared to be. No suspension needed Or deserved, perhaps the league should give a phone hearing for the purpose of warning everyone that they are Watching, but that's it.

To me, the hit is a bang-bang hockey play. Of course Niskanen is trying to hit him, that's his job, especially on a star player, but he can't foresee the Ovechkin slash coming, or their skates colliding causing Crosby to begin to fall. The Ovechkin slash was high, and also deserved a penalty, but I can just imagine there are idiots saying "can't call Ovechkin, Sid chopped Methot's finger off!!!!" (Both slashes should be penalties every time, both had crappy outcomes, Ovechkin's is "worse" because you don't see dozens of slashes to guys' shoulders every game like you do to a guy's stick and hands area).

All that said, I'm going to bitch and moan a little. Everyone who still somehow hates Crosby sees that hit last night and not only  (rightfully) believes that it wasn't dirty, but that he somehow deserves it because of his late season stick work and any number of other reasons. I read hundreds of tweets saying "fuck Crosby, glad he's hurt," and that's just disgusting. People want to make Crosby out as the guy at fault because he got hit, and say things like "oh because its Crosby Niskanen gets that penalty." I bet all those people were also ready to crucify Wideman last year when he's not paying attention and also brings his stick out in front of him as a reaction to protect himself.

I do wish the NHL would tell the refs to actually ref. Every year more things are allowed again, and sooner or later we will be right back to the clutch and grab hockey that was so boring to watch.

[mikeyd23]

As a Pens fan, Niskanen probably deserved the match penalty because it no doubt looks bad at high speed, but because of how injured Crosby appeared to be. No suspension needed Or deserved, perhaps the league should give a phone hearing for the purpose of warning everyone that they are Watching, but that's it.

To me, the hit is a bang-bang hockey play. Of course Niskanen is trying to hit him, that's his job, especially on a star player, but he can't foresee the Ovechkin slash coming, or their skates colliding causing Crosby to begin to fall. The Ovechkin slash was high, and also deserved a penalty, but I can just imagine there are idiots saying "can't call Ovechkin, Sid chopped Methot's finger off!!!!" (Both slashes should be penalties every time, both had crappy outcomes, Ovechkin's is "worse" because you don't see dozens of slashes to guys' shoulders every game like you do to a guy's stick and hands area).

All that said, I'm going to bitch and moan a little. Everyone who still somehow hates Crosby sees that hit last night and not only  (rightfully) believes that it wasn't dirty, but that he somehow deserves it because of his late season stick work and any number of other reasons. I read hundreds of tweets saying "fuck Crosby, glad he's hurt," and that's just disgusting. People want to make Crosby out as the guy at fault because he got hit, and say things like "oh because its Crosby Niskanen gets that penalty." I bet all those people were also ready to crucify Wideman last year when he's not paying attention and also brings his stick out in front of him as a reaction to protect himself.

I do wish the NHL would tell the refs to actually ref. Every year more things are allowed again, and sooner or later we will be right back to the clutch and grab hockey that was so boring to watch.

Amen. Totally agreed.

[Nick]

So, since legally it's all we'll be able to talk about for awhile, my take:

A couple of things on penalties in general, one of which I know I've gotten into lengthy discussion on before. Pre-season, regular season, post-season, regular time, overtime, ANY time the game should be called the same. The criteria for a call should be uniform throughout the league whenever there is play, period.

More importantly, an injury should never effect if a call is made or the severity of it. Just because one slash injured someone and an identical slash didn't doesn't make the act of the slash any better or worse. And in general you can have severe injuries on clean plays and nothing happen on cheap shots, you don't referee the outcome.

For that particular situation I would have liked to see two minor penalties called, one on Ovi for the slash and one on Niskanen for the high stick or cross check. Why not the major? Because I don't feel like it was in any way intentional. The replays show Niskanen focused on the puck and the play away from him as Crosby was coming at him. He had a player coming at him and was shielding/pushing him away and did it in a stupid fashion. It was a penalty but not a major.

[gmillerdrake]

A couple of things on penalties in general, one of which I know I've gotten into lengthy discussion on before. Pre-season, regular season, post-season, regular time, overtime, ANY time the game should be called the same. The criteria for a call should be uniform throughout the league whenever there is play, period.

The officiating IS way too inconsistent. Laughable at times.

[mikeyd23]

Agreed on the consistency issue, a penalty should be a penalty no matter score or situation.

More importantly, an injury should never effect if a call is made or the severity of it. Just because one slash injured someone and an identical slash didn't doesn't make the act of the slash any better or worse. And in general you can have severe injuries on clean plays and nothing happen on cheap shots, you don't referee the outcome.

That's not the way the NHL (supposedly) does things though, is it? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure for example if someone boards a player and that player suffers a head injury, that guy gets a game misconduct automatically. So that's a situation where whether the guy gets injured or not is affecting the penalty called on the ice. Like I said, I might be wrong on that, but that was my understanding.

For that particular situation I would have liked to see two minor penalties called, one on Ovi for the slash and one on Niskanen for the high stick or cross check. Why not the major? Because I don't feel like it was in any way intentional. The replays show Niskanen focused on the puck and the play away from him as Crosby was coming at him. He had a player coming at him and was shielding/pushing him away and did it in a stupid fashion. It was a penalty but not a major.

Is intent required for a major penalty to be called? Of course not, because most of the time it would be impossible to determine. Often times majors are due to extremely reckless play or more dangerous versions of minor penalties. I have no issue with the major being called.

[mikeyd23]

....And Crosby has a concussion.... 

[Nick]

Agreed on the consistency issue, a penalty should be a penalty no matter score or situation.

More importantly, an injury should never effect if a call is made or the severity of it. Just because one slash injured someone and an identical slash didn't doesn't make the act of the slash any better or worse. And in general you can have severe injuries on clean plays and nothing happen on cheap shots, you don't referee the outcome.

That's not the way the NHL (supposedly) does things though, is it? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure for example if someone boards a player and that player suffers a head injury, that guy gets a game misconduct automatically. So that's a situation where whether the guy gets injured or not is affecting the penalty called on the ice. Like I said, I might be wrong on that, but that was my understanding.

For that particular situation I would have liked to see two minor penalties called, one on Ovi for the slash and one on Niskanen for the high stick or cross check. Why not the major? Because I don't feel like it was in any way intentional. The replays show Niskanen focused on the puck and the play away from him as Crosby was coming at him. He had a player coming at him and was shielding/pushing him away and did it in a stupid fashion. It was a penalty but not a major.

Is intent required for a major penalty to be called? Of course not, because most of the time it would be impossible to determine. Often times majors are due to extremely reckless play or more dangerous versions of minor penalties. I have no issue with the major being called.

You are correct in that not being how the league does it. One of my biggest issues with the Dep. of Player Safety.

You are also correct in the criteria for a major penalty. You certainly do not need bad intent for it to be called. For that play I just didn't see it as reckless enough to warrant it either. Had Crosby not been falling head first he would have just been shoving him off to the side using his shoulder. It's unlike a boarding call where you're actively checking a guy. It was an instinct thing in a net front positional situation that will happen all the time. It's extremely unfortunate how it ended up, but I don't think Niskanen did anything extraordinary to deserve a big penalty.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

There's absolutely no way it should have been a major IMO. Shame he's concussed though. Sheary too, yikes.

[Nick]

Heh, just came across this tweet: https://twitter.com/davelozo/status/859434745817702403

[mikeyd23]

Yeah, and to be fair, I wouldn't have been that upset with two minors being dished out as you posted. Whether or not the official called a minor or a major on Nisky wasn't my big issue. My main issues were that the league basically enabled this situation by not calling penalties throughout the series, or throughout any playoff series for that matter.

The NHL needs to understand that grit and toughness are great, but the skill and talent of stars sell tickets and generate TV money. In order for them to grow the popularity of the sport and make the league more successful, they need to start enforcing rules.

[jingle.boy]

Heh, just came across this tweet: https://twitter.com/davelozo/status/859434745817702403

The Internet wins 1-0 in OT.