Someone in the thread mentioned that mainstream music used to have a separate "second rung" of alt artists who would still get successful and as someone who was the prime targeted demographic, I can't tell you *exactly* how it all went pre-internet because I'm assuming things were big in America never made it all the way across, but it is true. After hearing Avril and Linkin Park and Eminem, it was rare that people didn't make a stop between in metal before moving on to other genres of alternative music or going back to mainstream listening habits, but absolutely no metal band made it to the "your mom knows it" alt music podium in the 2000's or later except for Linkin Park. The very last time I remember alt music being relevant before this second rung fell out - I'm guessing it might be coming back with Billie Eilish - and the last album I'm going to nominate for the last great album with some cultural appeal and influence that wasn't a major pop album, is Arctic Monkeys' AM in 2013.