NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?

[black_biff_stadler]

Green's a piece of shit and I'd be glad to see him suffer a career-ending injury.

[Nekov]

Green's a piece of shit and I'd be glad to see him suffer a career-ending injury.

[bosk1]

Green's a piece of shit and I'd be glad to see him suffer a career-ending injury.

That's just silly.  I realize people way outside this market who typically only see Eastern Conference games and see the Warriors maybe a handful of times a year may not have a clue what he is about and may therefore have misperceptions about him, but that's just silly.  He's one of the nicest players in the league and hasn't done anything to warrant that kind of response.

[KevShmev]

Green thinks he is Rodman with a jumper...

Green is better than Rodman ever was.  Rodman was a beast of a rebounder and a great defender, but not much of a scorer.  Green can score.  Green is more like a modern day Bill Laimbeer.  A big mar who can actually hit a 3, and, despite being a dirty player, someone who is willing to sacrifice individual stats for the greater good of the team. 

[bosk1]

Green thinks he is Rodman with a jumper...

Green is better than Rodman ever was.  Rodman was a beast of a rebounder and a great defender, but not much of a scorer.  Green can score.  Green is more like a modern day Bill Laimbeer.  A big mar who can actually hit a 3, and, despite being a dirty player, someone who is willing to sacrifice individual stats for the greater good of the team. 

"Dirty" is a tricky label for me to apply to him.  I mean, he plays physical, pushes the boundaries on how far you can go, and sometimes intentionally crosses the line if he thinks he needs to for the good of the team.  I guess I can't really say that isn't "dirty."  But he is also a good-natured dude, and one who expects to play hard and trash talk on the court, and be able to hug or high-five the same guys and go out for a beer after the game (with a few exceptions).  I contrast that to a guy who is just mean-spirited, regularly breaks the rules and if he hurts a guy doing it, or regularly breaks the rules because he thinks he is above them and throws a fit if he gets called on it (CP3, for example).  I guess, to me, there are degrees of dirty.  And, sure, it's easy to excuse things when it's a guy on your team.  I'm self-aware enough to know that I am more willing to give a pass because of that.  But it's also the things I said above.  I am more willing to give a guy a pass who is open about what he does, is good-natured about it with those other players, and is generally a likeable guy, as Green is.

[King Postwhore]

That's why bosk1, he shouldn't respond about another player when he does push boundaries. He can't help himself.

What I thought was weird was he was talking about a different conference during the playoffs.

[black_biff_stadler]

I watched about 15-20 regular season Warrior games last season, every one of their playoff games last year and maybe 10 this year plus all playoff games except the most recent one. That's about 60 games but I'll just wait to hear why I "don't get him and what he means to this team."

He kicks people in the dick, holds on to petty anger like a child, and gets needlessly incredulous with refs in situations where any idiot would know going in that it puts the team at risk if he gets a technical.

[Azyiu]

I have been saying it for a while that, how D'Antoni got yet another head coaching gig after he completely f'ed it up in NY and then LA is beyond me... Fast forward to tonight's game... my hats off to Pop, by the way... How could you be down 19 at the half playing at home? And the Spurs are without their TWO key guys? The Rockets deserve to be gone fishing.

[King Postwhore]

NY and LA are bad examples.  Both franchises are in dismay.

No coach can thrive in those situations.

[Azyiu]

NY and LA are bad examples.  Both franchises are in dismay.

No coach can thrive in those situations.

Fair enough... but how about this? D'Antoni is so stubborn.  Popovich has a good system in San Antonio, but even he knows when to change things up a bit to fit the talent that he has on his team.  D'Antoni believes that his style is so perfect that he doesn't need to change anything - he acts like he has a fist full of championship rings!  The guy left the Suns because he wouldn't implement defense.  Then Kerr basically took his style, added defense to it and won a championship with the Dubs!  People are taking D'Antoni's style and winning with it, and D'Antoni is still using the same game plan from 2006.

[King Postwhore]

That I agree.  He works for certain veteran teams.

How many coaches are Pops or Belichick?  That's why they are the where they are.

[KevShmev]

James Harden might never live down tonight's pathetic performance.

[jingle.boy]

Green's a piece of shit and I'd be glad to see him suffer a career-ending injury.

That's just silly.  I realize people way outside this market who typically only see Eastern Conference games and see the Warriors maybe a handful of times a year may not have a clue what he is about and may therefore have misperceptions about him, but that's just silly.  He's one of the nicest players in the league and hasn't done anything to warrant that kind of response.

Was this thread supposed to be in green?

He kicks people in the dick, holds on to petty anger like a child, and gets needlessly incredulous with refs in situations where any idiot would know going in that it puts the team at risk if he gets a technical.

And he shall hence forth be known as basketball-Trump.

James Harden might never live down tonight's pathetic performance.

He can join Ovi in that regard.

[KevShmev]

.

James Harden might never live down tonight's pathetic performance.

He can join Ovi in that regard.

It's far worse in basketball.  Hockey is much more of a team sport.  One man cannot take over a hockey game like one can a basketball game.  Having a bad game is one thing, but playing so passive, like you would have rather been somewhere else, looks really bad for a guy who is now considered a superstar despite not really having any definitive playoff moments to date.

[bosk1]

He kicks people in the dick, holds on to petty anger like a child, and gets needlessly incredulous with refs in situations where any idiot would know going in that it puts the team at risk if he gets a technical.

That is such an exaggerated and dishonest account of events that I really can't even take you seriously.  You may have seen a few games, but I don't think you understand the game at all, unless you are simply trolling.  Either way, if your understanding of the game is at such a rudimentary and childish level, I can't be bothered to further respond.

[Accelerando]

Bosk1, we are finally getting the WCF that we've been waiting for. My Spurs. Your Warriors. The Klaw vs The Chef. Hope it's a great series  The game deserves this match up

[black_biff_stadler]

He kicks people in the dick, holds on to petty anger like a child, and gets needlessly incredulous with refs in situations where any idiot would know going in that it puts the team at risk if he gets a technical.

That is such an exaggerated and dishonest account of events that I really can't even take you seriously.  You may have seen a few games, but I don't think you understand the game at all, unless you are simply trolling.  Either way, if your understanding of the game is at such a rudimentary and childish level, I can't be bothered to further respond.

If you wanna be a homer and have your guy's back, fine, but try to at least stay in the solar system of reality. You're literally referring to me having seen a third of all of their regular season and playoff games over a two year period combined as "a few games" and making comments toward me that you'd probably dish out warnings for if someone else said that stuff to you.

Also, I've watched the NBA for 29 years so this is now probably your cue to say something along the lines of "Well ya certainly haven't learned anything during that time" even though you probably are a johnny come lately that had zero interest in the NBA in the down time between Run TMC and the Curry/Thompson era considering how you virtually never posted in these threads until your boys were front page material.

But by all means, please continue to pull rank and make immature insults.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

He kicks people in the dick, holds on to petty anger like a child, and gets needlessly incredulous with refs in situations where any idiot would know going in that it puts the team at risk if he gets a technical.

That is such an exaggerated and dishonest account of events that I really can't even take you seriously.  You may have seen a few games, but I don't think you understand the game at all, unless you are simply trolling.  Either way, if your understanding of the game is at such a rudimentary and childish level, I can't be bothered to further respond.

If you wanna be a homer and have your guy's back, fine, but try to at least stay in the solar system of reality. You're literally referring to me having seen a third of all of their regular season and playoff games over a two year period combined as "a few games" and making comments toward me that you'd probably dish out warnings for if someone else said that stuff to you.

Also, I've watched the NBA for 29 years so this is now probably your cue to say something along the lines of "Well ya certainly haven't learned anything during that time" even though you probably are a johnny come lately that had zero interest in the NBA in the down time between Run TMC and the Curry/Thompson era considering how you virtually never posted in these threads until your boys were front page material.

But by all means, please continue to pull rank and make immature insults.

I'm with black_floyd on this one. He is very knowledgeable about sports, and even if he wasn't, his assessment of Green is more than fair given what we've seen through the years.   

[jingle.boy]

Ditto.  To insult Josh's level of understanding of this sport demonstrates a certain childish-ness on your part Jerry.  You are coming across as a homer in this respect.

[Nekov]

I'll jump into this bandwagon as well. Your stand on green is clearly biased because you are a warriors fan. If everyone else here feels like draymond is a dirty player, not just josh, maybe that should tell you something. And it's not just us here, it's something journalists and really the league as a whole knows.

[King Postwhore]

I'm ok with him being dirty.  Teams need guys like that.  Calling out another player in another conference dirty is opening him up to be criticized.  Just shut your mouth and do what you do to help your team win.

[bosk1]

Bosk1, we are finally getting the WCF that we've been waiting for. My Spurs. Your Warriors. The Klaw vs The Chef. Hope it's a great series  The game deserves this match up

Looking forward to it.  It's just a bummer about the injuries on San Antonio's side.  I think that severely hurts their chances.  But should still be good.

Can't be bothered to respond to the rest of the comments about Green.  Honestly, it just reads like LeBron fanboy comments on ESPN.com.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

My personal opinion of Green is: Great player. Seems like the kind of guy that I'd hate to play against but would love playing with. He's maybe even a top fifteen player in the league. And his defense is insane.

That said, he does seem like a bit of a headcase. Between the constant yelling, technical fouls, kicking people in the balls, the locker room incident last year, and off-court controversies, I think it's safe to say he's not the most likable dude.

[jingle.boy]

Can't be bothered to respond to the rest of the comments about Green.  Honestly, it just reads like LeBron fanboy comments on ESPN.com.

My beef wasn't on your defense of Green - I have no idea what the guy is like off the court, and I sure as hell know that players that are hated can be great people.  However, your shot at Josh was completely bush-league and uncalled for - especially coming from THE mod.

My personal opinion of Green is: Great player. Seems like the kind of guy that I'd hate to play against but would love playing with. He's maybe even a top fifteen player in the league. And his defense is insane.

That said, he does seem like a bit of a headcase. Between the constant yelling, technical fouls, kicking people in the balls, the locker room incident last year, and off-court controversies, I think it's safe to say he's not the most likable dude.

[TAC]

Plus, I figure Black Floyd is an expert at getting kicked in the nuts. 

[King Postwhore]

Tim if you were on Facebook and friends with Josh, you'd want to see his down under. 

[TAC]

Tim if you were on Facebook and friends with Josh, you'd want to see his down under. 

A. You're f'n crazy
B. No way in hell
C.  I'd rather listen to Winger
D. DTF IS my Facebook
E. All of the above


I'm going with E!

[King Postwhore]

I'd go with C.for you. 

[King Postwhore]

Hell of a game 6.

Game 7. Monday night in Boston.

[TAC]

Blown opportunity.

[KevShmev]

Westbrook gagged it up in the playoffs at the end of games and was ousted quickly in the 1st round.

Harden showed how soft he is.

The Spurs just won two huge playoff games without Leonard.

Seems pretty obvious now that James was and IS the MVP.

Hmmm, who said that a month ago...?

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Westbrook gagged it up in the playoffs at the end of games and was ousted quickly in the 1st round.

Harden showed how soft he is.

The Spurs just won two huge playoff games without Leonard.

Seems pretty obvious now that James was and IS the MVP.

Hmmm, who said that a month ago...?

To be fair...postseason play should have no impact on a regular season award.

But yes.....James is underrated somehow. He's still #1 and #2 isn't close.

[black_biff_stadler]

At first I was kinda wtf about you saying Westbrook "gagged it up" but, after doing some research, I'm leaning a tad more toward your direction but still far more toward mine. Here are his ppg, rpg, apg, +/-, where his +/- ranked among all five Thunder starters for each game, his fga/fgm, and fg%.

Game 1:     22 11 7 -25 (5) 6/23 26.1%
Game 2:     51 10 13 +11 (3) 17/43 39.5%
Game 3:     32 12 11 +3 (3) 11/24 45.8%
Game 4:     35 14 14 +14 (1) 10/28 35.7%
Game 5:     47 11 9 +12 (2) 15/34 44.1%

Series averages: 37.4 11.6 10.8 +3.0 (2.8) 11.8/30.4 38.8%

I'm not for one second disagreeing about whether or not his -25 in game 1 should count because he played those minutes and it obviously counts but it certainly overshadows the fact that he averaged +10.0 in the four remaining games. His shooting was below average but two of the games were 44%+.

He had his ups and downs but it's ridiculously hard to average a triple double (regular season and playoffs) on a team with that kind of lack of depth and have every single stat look good. If he would've picked his shots better and spread the ball around more so he could average somewhere around 45-47% from the floor, do you honestly see his teammates picking up the slack and them performing better? It might be possible but it's doubtful anyone else on that team would be even a second option on any of the teams that made the playoffs this year.

It's too early in their careers for a proven producer like RW to regularly defer to them and hope for the best. Under these circumstances, saying he gagged it up is like saying the Timberwolves sucked because of Kevin Garnett. Lastly, LBJ has been my favorite NBA player since probably his third year or so which means I'm actually arguing against my own possible bias in this post.

[KevShmev]

To be fair...postseason play should have no impact on a regular season award.

I understand that, but what we are seeing is like a reminder of what everyone deep down knew all along, but were hesitant to admit.

But yes.....James is underrated somehow. He's still #1 and #2 isn't close.

That is a portion of fans who will never give James his due, no matter what he does.

At first I was kinda wtf about you saying Westbrook "gagged it up" but, after doing some research, I'm leaning a tad more toward your direction but still far more toward mine. Here are his ppg, rpg, apg, +/-, where his +/- ranked among all five Thunder starters for each game, his fga/fgm, and fg%.

Game 1:     22 11 7 -25 (5) 6/23 26.1%
Game 2:     51 10 13 +11 (3) 17/43 39.5%
Game 3:     32 12 11 +3 (3) 11/24 45.8%
Game 4:     35 14 14 +14 (1) 10/28 35.7%
Game 5:     47 11 9 +12 (2) 15/34 44.1%

Series averages: 37.4 11.6 10.8 +3.0 (2.8) 11.8/30.4 38.8%

I'm not for one second disagreeing about whether or not his -25 in game 1 should count because he played those minutes and it obviously counts but it certainly overshadows the fact that he averaged +10.0 in the four remaining games. His shooting was below average but two of the games were 44%+.

He had his ups and downs but it's ridiculously hard to average a triple double (regular season and playoffs) on a team with that kind of lack of depth and have every single stat look good. If he would've picked his shots better and spread the ball around more so he could average somewhere around 45-47% from the floor, do you honestly see his teammates picking up the slack and them performing better? It might be possible but it's doubtful anyone else on that team would be even a second option on any of the teams that made the playoffs this year.

It's too early in their careers for a proven producer like RW to regularly defer to them and hope for the best. Under these circumstances, saying he gagged it up is like saying the Timberwolves sucked because of Kevin Garnett. Lastly, LBJ has been my favorite NBA player since probably his third year or so which means I'm actually arguing against my own possible bias in this post.

I hear what you are saying, but Westbrook has always been an inefficient player, even when he played with Durant (and Harden).  He was just more of a volume shooter this year because there was no other superstar to demand high touches/shots. He is a fun player to watch, but this "chucker's mentality" is maddening to watch.  He strikes me as the kind of player who doesn't want to win unless he is the reason the team wins. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

The tricky thing about the MVP Award is that the NBA intentionally leaves its criteria up to interpretation. Should the award go to the player who is most likely the best (LeBron)? Should it go to the player whose team relies on him the most offensively (Westbrook)? Should it go to the best player on the best team (Curry)?

I personally think that the award would be most historically significant if it simply went to the guy who was the most outstanding during the regular season.