Author Topic: Westworld  (Read 18764 times)

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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #455 on: June 20, 2018, 01:08:37 AM »
Iím in the camp that believes Williamis is not a host. Donít know why, and I could obviously be wrong, but thatís what I think.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #456 on: June 20, 2018, 02:25:14 AM »
Yea, I don't expect all things to be answered, but I just want some closure before what will likely be a cliffhanger ending.  There's just too much confusion at this point.  I am hooked, but I am wondering if others will lose interest.  I also expect Ford to be back somehow, he's too critical to the show to have him just deleted so easily.
Season 1 did that quite well - answered some of the big mysteries, while opening up whole new ones to set up the next stage in the story. I'd expect the same here - I don't think they'll leave EVERYTHING unanswered/unresolved.

In general, the phrase "have you ever questioned the nature of your reality" is very fitting for the show, as I question everything now. William could be a host. So could all the people he just killed, including his daughter. It could all be part of the project/experiment.

Offline Chris Hinton

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #457 on: June 20, 2018, 08:11:41 AM »
Well, a couple of episodes back Ford told Bernard that the technology wasn't perfected yet which is why he uploaded himself into the cradle instead of a host. I don't think William is a host, I think he just lost his mind. Westworld finally took everything from him

But whats with his arm?  I think the show made it clear by showing Bernard connecting to his arm, and then immediately showing William rubbing his arm in the same spot multiple times that they are hinting a correlation.  I guess it's possible that this is to confuse us, but also the being clear with the scan could be to confuse as well.  I just flat out dont know.

I think he got to the point where he wasn't sure any more.  Delos didn't know he was a host until William told him.  There's no one around to tell him if he's a host or not, so he's going to dig and find out.  That's what I think, anyway.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #458 on: June 20, 2018, 08:21:00 AM »
Well, a couple of episodes back Ford told Bernard that the technology wasn't perfected yet which is why he uploaded himself into the cradle instead of a host. I don't think William is a host, I think he just lost his mind. Westworld finally took everything from him

But whats with his arm?  I think the show made it clear by showing Bernard connecting to his arm, and then immediately showing William rubbing his arm in the same spot multiple times that they are hinting a correlation.  I guess it's possible that this is to confuse us, but also the being clear with the scan could be to confuse as well.  I just flat out dont know.

I think he got to the point where he wasn't sure any more.  Delos didn't know he was a host until William told him.  There's no one around to tell him if he's a host or not, so he's going to dig and find out.  That's what I think, anyway.

Ahh thats makes sense too

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #459 on: June 20, 2018, 09:52:37 AM »
So apparently the finale is going to be longer than season 1's, which was an hour and a half long. PUMPED UP :2metal:

Offline Chino

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #460 on: June 20, 2018, 09:56:00 AM »
I'm still not convinced we won't see a physical....'host'....Ford. I'm still thinking he was creating 'himself' in that scene back in season 1 when Bernard became aware of what he was in that secret building. That he perfected the project and 'he' is 'alive' physically and the program we've seen of him was just his effort to assist the destruction of the Forge and DELOS for that matter.

I've thought this all along as well. The only wrench in that so far is that we've been back to that secret building "the basement of the house where Ford was hiding his host family) and it was revealed that Ford had printed a number of Bernards.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #461 on: June 20, 2018, 11:55:58 AM »
I'm still not convinced we won't see a physical....'host'....Ford. I'm still thinking he was creating 'himself' in that scene back in season 1 when Bernard became aware of what he was in that secret building. That he perfected the project and 'he' is 'alive' physically and the program we've seen of him was just his effort to assist the destruction of the Forge and DELOS for that matter.

I've thought this all along as well. The only wrench in that so far is that we've been back to that secret building "the basement of the house where Ford was hiding his host family) and it was revealed that Ford had printed a number of Bernards.

True. That could also point to he may have printed a number of any of them, including himself.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #462 on: June 24, 2018, 06:59:28 PM »
Well, alrighty then. That was certainly a thing...

I don't know if I liked it or didn't like it. I don't know. I'll have to think about it.

I don't have the slightest clue where a season 3 could go. I guess tweedle dee and tweedle dumb are gonna rebuild maeve, and then what? She's back in her role? nobody is gonna go back to the park after that massacre, or will they? Is season 3 gonna just be in the real world? Is the show over? Just so many questions. 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 08:33:58 PM by Phoenix87x »
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Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #463 on: June 24, 2018, 08:41:10 PM »
I loved every second and it seemed to get better and better as it went on. There's so freaking much to unpack here, and that post credits scene made me grin like an idiot once I realized what was happening. Gonna watch it at least a couple more times. Damn that was good!

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #464 on: June 25, 2018, 07:15:25 AM »
I loved every second and it seemed to get better and better as it went on. There's so freaking much to unpack here, and that post credits scene made me grin like an idiot once I realized what was happening. Gonna watch it at least a couple more times. Damn that was good!

Post credits scene?  I turned off since there wouldnt be scenes for next week.

Well, alrighty then. That was certainly a thing...

I don't know if I liked it or didn't like it. I don't know. I'll have to think about it.

I don't have the slightest clue where a season 3 could go. I guess tweedle dee and tweedle dumb are gonna rebuild maeve, and then what? She's back in her role? nobody is gonna go back to the park after that massacre, or will they? Is season 3 gonna just be in the real world? Is the show over? Just so many questions. 

I feel the same.  I don't know if I liked the way this ended.  I need to read up and maybe watch again (I fell asleep during an immediate rewatch) to see if I can understand this more. 

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #465 on: June 25, 2018, 07:58:47 AM »
Yeah, there's a post credits scene. Watch it. It's awesome :)

I watched it a second time and loved it even more. I fucking loved it. I think I enjoyed it more on the second viewing, honestly.

My friends are insisting I only liked season 2 because I got off on getting confused... wrong... it's not all that hard to follow particularly if you accept that they're wrapping it up at the end and piecing the timelines together. I personally enjoy that because it adds suspense and mystery to the show and I was constantly invested in figuring out what happened. I also loved the character arcs this season although Maeve's grated on me early on because of her insistence on saving her daughter who isn't actually her daughter, despite Maeve being self aware enough to understand that was just something programmed into her and not organic or genuine in any way. And I was hoping Shogun World would have more relevance in the end, but other than those points, I loved this season - I enjoyed it more than season 1 in the end. Several episodes this season were better than any episode of season 1.

The post credits scene gives me some ideas for how they'll do the mixed timeline thing for season 3. I'm so freaking hyped. Please don't make me wait another year and a half.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #466 on: June 25, 2018, 08:36:53 AM »
Here's how I took that post credit scene....don't know if this is correct or not.

Modern day William survived to be found and then brought back to that tent at the Headquarters there by the Lake. We saw he was the survivor they told Stubbs about.

At some point in the future.....William must discover that the 'manager' of the virtual world that Ford/Bernard created believes and suggests that humans are nothing more than simple algorithms with no true free will. William then decides either as he's dying or just to do it....to upload his code into a host and prove it wrong?

We then see him get out of that elevator....as his host daughter suggests.....quite some time into the future. And the Forge looks like it's either been destroyed or neglected. She then says they've been doing that 'test' or simulation countless times.

Is that the gist of it?
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #467 on: June 25, 2018, 08:38:08 AM »
Also, I got the impression from the conversation that Stubbs had with Charlotte (Dolores) that he knew she was a host but really didn't give a  :censored that she was escaping because he was questioning the meaning behind it all anyway

***edit*** and to add to that the explanation Stubbs was giving to 'Charlotte' certainly sounded like to me that he was admitting he was a host as well...that he was just playing the role Ford assigned to him.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 11:13:10 AM by gmillerdrake »
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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #468 on: June 25, 2018, 02:29:43 PM »
Also, I got the impression from the conversation that Stubbs had with Charlotte (Dolores) that he knew she was a host but really didn't give a  :censored that she was escaping because he was questioning the meaning behind it all anyway

***edit*** and to add to that the explanation Stubbs was giving to 'Charlotte' certainly sounded like to me that he was admitting he was a host as well...that he was just playing the role Ford assigned to him.

That was my immediate thought when watching that scene. You had to pay attention to how he said it, but I got the impression that he's a host and knew she was as well.

Season 1 was all about Dolores and her different timelines. This season, to me, was all about Bernard and because of that we got presented things in the same disjointed manner he was experiencing them. That diagnostic he ran mentioned he would have time shifts and memory lapses and that's what we got. It was like he was the narrator.

I was able to sync everything up in the timeline by the end, except for William. I have no clue what is going on there. I expected him to be on the lift when the door opened for Bernard. I'm guessing this means that somewhere his timeline picked up somewhere else which makes me wonder where he was when they found him and had him under that tent at the end.

Shoutout to the bulls scene and the looks on everyone's face as they attacked. That was priceless. Somebody posted this on Twitter which was quite good:

Maeve Millay, the First of Her Kind, The Awakened, Favored by Ford, Elevated to Administrator Privileges, Breaker of Code, Mother of Bulls.

Another shoutout to Lee Sizemore and his redemption. That was the classy way to exit a show.

Finally, Felix and Sylvester will resurrect Maeve and her posse since they seemed to be given the keys to do what they want at the end.

Now the long wait occurs.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #469 on: June 25, 2018, 02:42:55 PM »
I was able to sync everything up in the timeline by the end, except for William. I have no clue what is going on there. I expected him to be on the lift when the door opened for Bernard. I'm guessing this means that somewhere his timeline picked up somewhere else which makes me wonder where he was when they found him and had him under that tent at the end.


Best I figure is he was just found unconscious outside the Forge elevator in 'real time' and us watching him get on the elevator and go down to the forge was obviously some point in the distant future.

What I'm curious about was his whole story this year. Was all his story line from his 'test of fidelity'? It seems to make sense other than him meeting up with Dolores and Bernard there at the Forge doorway....unless that's where he was found and then brought back to the tent.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #470 on: June 25, 2018, 02:50:37 PM »
I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #471 on: June 25, 2018, 02:54:29 PM »
Good lord, that finale.

So much to process, and so many questions for season 3.

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #472 on: June 25, 2018, 02:56:18 PM »
I was able to sync everything up in the timeline by the end, except for William. I have no clue what is going on there. I expected him to be on the lift when the door opened for Bernard. I'm guessing this means that somewhere his timeline picked up somewhere else which makes me wonder where he was when they found him and had him under that tent at the end.


Best I figure is he was just found unconscious outside the Forge elevator in 'real time' and us watching him get on the elevator and go down to the forge was obviously some point in the distant future.

What I'm curious about was his whole story this year. Was all his story line from his 'test of fidelity'? It seems to make sense other than him meeting up with Dolores and Bernard there at the Forge doorway....unless that's where he was found and then brought back to the tent.

Again, we are on the same page. My first thought is that he never regained consciousness outside of the door. I read an interview with Jonah Nolan and he seems to say that the post-credits scene was most likely in the distant future and that was probably Host William but that was about all he'd say.

Now that I think about it, it could also be another virtual world like the one they were testing Delos in. Who knows.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #473 on: June 25, 2018, 03:07:00 PM »
I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.

Me too. Season one was pretty rock solid, and I loved it. Sure there was the parallel timeline reveal but nothing on the level of the time skip, convoluted aspects of season 2. This season was ALL over the place and for me its now off the rails with how obtuse and esoteric that its gotten. And I was really on board up until that finale, and it felt like a let down.
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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #474 on: June 25, 2018, 04:12:21 PM »
I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.

Me too. Season one was pretty rock solid, and I loved it. Sure there was the parallel timeline reveal but nothing on the level of the time skip, convoluted aspects of season 2. This season was ALL over the place and for me its now off the rails with how obtuse and esoteric that its gotten. And I was really on board up until that finale, and it felt like a let down.
I pretty much feel the same, this season was all over the place. Not really feelin it at all. I really enjoyed the first season though.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #475 on: June 25, 2018, 04:17:56 PM »
I have absolutely no idea what Season 2 was about. I watched it all because, not much else going on for me on Sunday nights. But man, that was bewildering. I liked S1 a lot better.

Me too. Season one was pretty rock solid, and I loved it. Sure there was the parallel timeline reveal but nothing on the level of the time skip, convoluted aspects of season 2. This season was ALL over the place and for me its now off the rails with how obtuse and esoteric that its gotten. And I was really on board up until that finale, and it felt like a let down.
I pretty much feel the same, this season was all over the place. Not really feelin it at all. I really enjoyed the first season though.

I think I liked season 2 better, but I'm not sure I like the way it ended.  The feeling that everything is a simulation is kind of a turn off and that's kind of where it seems headed.  As my coworker said, it's like inception but with reality and not only is it confusing, I'm not entirely sure I find it interesting.  But the acting and episodic storytelling has been great.  I don't plan on stop watching or anything, but my love for season 2 faded a bit after last night.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #476 on: June 25, 2018, 08:43:17 PM »
Man what a ride, such a complex timeline of events. I love that kind of stuff, I really really need to watch both seasons back to back. The post credit scene was awesome.
I found a diagram that someone made a best guess estimate of where everything lies. It's an awesome read

http://www.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4

I can only imagine the nightmare it must be to edit this show.
I like how they sunset some of the host characters be sending them to the virtual Eden. I personally loved season 2 just as much as 1 and look forward to watching the whole thing again.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #477 on: June 26, 2018, 02:14:03 AM »
That finale was insane. And that after credits scene? Nuts. Best show out there this year, no question.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #478 on: June 26, 2018, 06:38:43 AM »
I think I've watched way too much mindf*ck anime as a teenager to feel impressed by this finale.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #479 on: June 26, 2018, 07:21:29 AM »
Man what a ride, such a complex timeline of events. I love that kind of stuff, I really really need to watch both seasons back to back. The post credit scene was awesome.
I found a diagram that someone made a best guess estimate of where everything lies. It's an awesome read

http://www.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4

I can only imagine the nightmare it must be to edit this show.
I like how they sunset some of the host characters be sending them to the virtual Eden. I personally loved season 2 just as much as 1 and look forward to watching the whole thing again.

Thatís a cool chart. People have a LOT of time on their hands to be able to craft something like that  :lol
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #480 on: June 26, 2018, 07:22:31 AM »
Also, I got the impression from the conversation that Stubbs had with Charlotte (Dolores) that he knew she was a host but really didn't give a  :censored that she was escaping because he was questioning the meaning behind it all anyway

***edit*** and to add to that the explanation Stubbs was giving to 'Charlotte' certainly sounded like to me that he was admitting he was a host as well...that he was just playing the role Ford assigned to him.

He felt like Teddy to me during that interaction. So if Dolores is in Charlotte, can Teddy be in Stubbs? I get that she put Teddy in the Valley Beyond, but what if there were copies of him already before that?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 07:34:55 AM by chknptpie »

Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #481 on: June 26, 2018, 07:34:36 AM »
I watched the episode again last night - twice - and man there are so many good moments. I loved the Four Horsemen-esque imagery of Clementine riding and sowing death and discord wherever she went. When Armistice kept shooting Clementine but the chaos still went on, that was really haunting and perfectly shot. I love how Akecheta got shot just as he crossed through the Door - a cheap editing tactic but damn it it worked in the moment, so I like it. At first I thought Lee's speech was corny as hell, but on repeated viewings I loved it. It fit him so well and he finally got to not only hear his speech but deliver it himself. Kind of sad he's gone, actually.

Did anybody notice the degradation of the visual effects as Dolores and Bernard began walking in the system within the Forge? I thought that was a great addition.

I'm super curious to learn more about Stubbs and how he knew Halores was a host, and also who is in Hale's body if Dolores is back in her own (unless there's two Dolores now). Who did Dolores take with her in the bag of pearls? That's a good question. Perhaps we get a whole new host of stars (pun intended) in the coming seasons.

I'm hoping season 3 continues with the split timeline thing - I think they've shown they can make the seasons mysterious and suspenseful while making them come together neatly. But I'm wondering if they'll do that. There's so much going on in the present timeline I'm not sure there's a need, unless they spend a lot of season 3 with flash-forwards to Future William and his fidelity tests, which I'm sure they have big plans for already and wouldn't have teased that scene if they didn't know what to do with it. I'm guessing we'll see a lot of Bernard and Dolores in the human's world, lots of action back at the park with Sylvester/Felix/Stubbs/etc. and possibly a resurrection of Maeve and co. But I wonder what we'll see of William after he's been rescued. Is he gonna stay in the park? Are we going to get whole episodes jumping between current William and future host-hybrid William?

Also Katja Herbers (Emily) is so damn cute.  :biggrin:

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #482 on: June 26, 2018, 09:46:50 AM »
I didnít love the finale. It had amazing moments but was so convoluted that they needed multiple extended scenes of obvious exposition just to attempt to explain it.

I get that many fans get off on complexity but I think it went too far this season and actually hurt what was otherwise great character arcs.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 11:34:51 AM by Adami »
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #483 on: June 26, 2018, 03:34:55 PM »
Also Katja Herbers (Emily) is so damn cute.  :biggrin:


She's a great comedic actress as well. If you can get it anywhere, try to find some episodes from the Dutch show 'Divorce' with english subtitles. (if that even exists). You'll love her in that. She lets her crazy side loose!
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Offline Kattoelox

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #484 on: June 26, 2018, 03:47:42 PM »
Also Katja Herbers (Emily) is so damn cute.  :biggrin:


She's a great comedic actress as well. If you can get it anywhere, try to find some episodes from the Dutch show 'Divorce' with english subtitles. (if that even exists). You'll love her in that. She lets her crazy side loose!

Thanks for the heads up! I'll look for it  :biggrin:

Offline Chino

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #485 on: June 27, 2018, 05:51:30 AM »
Awesome end to the season, though I'm going to definitely have to watch the finale again. I was super tired during the last 15 minutes and I was having trouble following. Just some thoughts:

- I think Elsie is a host
- That indoor bull running scene was cinematic perfection
- How did all the people that were running with Maeve not get reprogrammed by Clementine?
- There are two parks on the Westworld website that we haven't seen yet. I'll bet Dolores enters through one of them pretending to be a guest and sneaks back into Westword.
- What was the place Dolores and Bernard were at after Dolores left Westworld? Were those fresh Dolores and Bernard prints, or was that a different timeline?


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Re: Westworld
« Reply #486 on: June 27, 2018, 06:03:20 AM »
- How did all the people that were running with Maeve not get reprogrammed by Clementine?
The people with Maeve are all fully "awake" now I think, and her ability (and thus Clementine's) only appears to work on those who aren't.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #487 on: June 27, 2018, 07:29:29 AM »
- What was the place Dolores and Bernard were at after Dolores left Westworld? Were those fresh Dolores and Bernard prints, or was that a different timeline?

That was Arnold (Bernardís) real house on the outside. Remember Arnold took Dolores there as it was being built when they were trying to lure in Logan and get funding for Westworld.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #488 on: June 27, 2018, 07:31:07 AM »
- What was the place Dolores and Bernard were at after Dolores left Westworld? Were those fresh Dolores and Bernard prints, or was that a different timeline?

That was Arnold (Bernardís) real house on the outside. Remember Arnold took Dolores there as it was being built when they were trying to lure in Logan and get funding for Westworld.

Ohhhh. I thought that scene was showing them visiting Raj World, the place where we met William's daughter for the first time.