Westworld

[The Walrus]

There seem to be two big thematic plots in this show and I'm trying to figure out which is more important: Robert Ford's 'maze' which has helped breathe consciousness into Westworld's hosts, or Delos and the pursuit of eternal life? It seems as if Ford's is more central to the show because it has driven the host rebellion, but season 2 is leaning heavily into the Delos story.

[orcus116]

Loved the episode. I'd been sort of this way that way on new episodes while still watching but they did a few things right:

Bring Elsie (one of my favorite characters) back and watching the frustrating struggle of her trying to rely on the thing that put her in that position as a source of truth as to what is going on. I still had my hands on my head as she shot the lock open but she has a bit of "I don't give a fuck" in her so it wasn't totally out of character. Selfishlessly I think she's too cute to kill off which made last seasons now fakeout a bit of a bummer but she has some cool dynamics to her that I like.

They gave older William's character a good bit of depth with what he did. It may have been a bit telegraphed with the way the pre-shootout scene was progressing but damn did I smile watching that. The capper with Ford assuming the essence of the children in this world made it even that much better.

The ending scene was worth it because in a review I read it helps that they didn't drag something (long lost daughter) that takes most shows a whole season to crutch on and just sort of bluntly merges it into the bigger picture and helps speculate towards the future. I'm not sure what Grace offers but I have a feeling that she may have always grown up in the park in some capacity so this is the only world(s) she knows.

[Phoenix87x]

I was really surprised when they strait up killed the James Delos clone. I was half expecting them to let him escape somehow and then William would have to face the monster he created, but oh well. It was still a kick ass episode.

[gmillerdrake]

There seem to be two big thematic plots in this show and I'm trying to figure out which is more important: Robert Ford's 'maze' which has helped breathe consciousness into Westworld's hosts, or Delos and the pursuit of eternal life? It seems as if Ford's is more central to the show because it has driven the host rebellion, but season 2 is leaning heavily into the Delos story.

which makes me think that given Ford knew how badly Delos wanted his research/intellectual property etc. that Ford had to have known 'why'.....and had to have known what William was up to the whole time and would lead me to speculate he mastered what they could not.

[gmillerdrake]

anyone catch what the Indian leader whispered into that dudes ear? It was in English but I didn't make it out.

[Phoenix87x]

"you live only as long as the last person who remembers you,”   which I think is a very cool line

and I don't buy that Logan died of just an overdose. I think that was a lie. Part of me thinks he disappeared into the park (Ghost nation perhaps?)

[gmillerdrake]

"you live only as long as the last person who remembers you,”   which I think is a very cool line

and I don't buy that Logan died of just an overdose. I think that was a lie. Part of me thinks he disappeared into the park (Ghost nation perhaps?)

That is a cool line. Speaks even more to something Ford would say/program.

I'm with you.....there's no way Logan just died of an overdose. Too 'simple' for this show

[sylvan]

If you notice when William is talking to James, he tells him how his wife is dead, his daughter killed herself, and Logan overdosed. Right after he says that Logan OD'd, William says, "Your wife's gone... Juliet's gone... Nobody's coming to help you." The first thing I thought is that he didn't say Logan is dead. Maybe it's implied by saying he overdosed, but I think this show really takes advantage of the assumptions people make.

[cramx3]

Yea I noticed that as well, described them all as dead except Logan.  I don't think he's dead because of the wording.

Awesome episode.  I really love the scenes outside the park (well, the scenes with James/Williams were inside but you know what I mean).  Learning more about how to put a human's mind into a host is really interesting.   Definitely think Ford figured this out and is the reason why Delos wants his data.

[Phoenix87x]

Anybody else ever see the 1973 movie?

I just watched it. Not bad, but it really pales in comparison to the show. Everything about the movie is very basic or base level. No metaphors, no allegories, nothing deep. Just an uber straitforward story. And the hosts are VERY rudimentary. Even when movie MIB finds the underground, he doesn't even question anything.

It also had a pretty strong Terminator 1 vibe toward the end, which was pretty cool. Overall, I am glad I watched it, but its definitely not essential viewing.

*Random thought. I am glad the show decided to call them hosts. The movie just says robots and its just kind of meh naming. And they certainly act like robots.

[cramx3]

I never saw the movie, but I understand there was a second not as well recieved movie that the show is kind of digging into.  I wonder if that's worth watching in terms of having a better understanding of where the show may go?  I don't plan on watching it though (or the original movie).

[Phoenix87x]

I think I am gonna do a re-watch of season 1. Just started with episode one and WOW what a difference. My first time watching episode one, I was deeply confused and really didn't like it. I almost didn't even continue with the series, but I'm glad I did.

But damn, Episode 1 is so much more enjoyable now. It makes perfect sense.

And I just realized that what's his face is Trevor from GTA 5

[The Walrus]

And William is Liam McPoyle from Always Sunny!

[ariich]

Finally caught up on Season 2 so far, and damn it's still such a great show. Episode 4 was especially awesome.

Wondering if the 'consciousness' or whatever that was that Bernard was instructed to create and get for Ford was actually Ford's Code? Maybe he's perfected what William and DELOS couldn't?

That's definitely what I was thinking. Maybe Ford didn't mind dying, since he may live forever? We shall see

This is certainly my assumption. But it's definitely implied, so I would imagine there'll be a twist of some kind. Could be something along the lines of what Nekov speculated earlier in the season, that Ford's consciousness is not just in one host but can be anywhere in the park.

[orcus116]

Out of all of the old timey covers they've done in this series, the one they just did of C.R.E.A.M. made me the happiest.

[The Walrus]

Great episode, loved it. Very cool to see Shogunworld finally. A couple of big 'oh shit!' moments toward the end. Loving this season.

[Phoenix87x]

Well, this series has officially gone mental, and it was very awesome. Shogun world... damn. Wow. And them re-creating the safe stealing scene 


And as if I didn't hate Delores enough as I already did. Here's a guy that genuinely loves you and you destroy him for you own selfish, genocidal, tyrannical megalomania. Just die already. You aren't needed. This is Maeve's story.

And speaking of maeve. Not sure how I feel about her jedi mind trick, next level super power. Hopefully its not too OP, but we'll see.

[lonestar]

Missed last weeks episode, so I'll have to do a catch up tomorrow.

[Phoenix87x]

Out of all of the old timey covers they've done in this series, the one they just did of C.R.E.A.M. made me the happiest.

That was so awesome

[gmillerdrake]

Well, this series has officially gone mental, and it was very awesome. Shogun world... damn. Wow. And them re-creating the safe stealing scene 


And as if I didn't hate Delores enough as I already did. Here's a guy that genuinely loves you and you destroy him for you own selfish, genocidal, tyrannical megalomania. Just die already. You aren't needed. This is Maeve's story.

And speaking of maeve. Not sure how I feel about her jedi mind trick, next level super power. Hopefully its not too OP, but we'll see.

Yeah....I’m still not on board with this Dolores angle. She seems more ‘robotic’ than ever. For a host who has supposed to have ‘woken up’ and is free she sure is acting like she’s just carrying out a programmed mission.

Maeve on the other hand is acting like a person. Not sure what this new power is that she’s found though. Seems pretty convenient.

[The Walrus]

I gotta admit, I don't give a shit about Dolores anymore. Especially after last night's episode. That surely can't be the angle they're purposely trying to go for given everything in season 1, is it? Regardless, Maeve - despite not being all that interested in her arc - has been growing on me and last night's episode might have made her one of my favorites now. She's no William/MIB but I'm finally starting to really enjoy her - a tradeoff for Dolores's arc becoming confusing, maybe.

Also, how brutal was that last death? Jeeeeesus!

[Phoenix87x]

Well, this series has officially gone mental, and it was very awesome. Shogun world... damn. Wow. And them re-creating the safe stealing scene 


And as if I didn't hate Delores enough as I already did. Here's a guy that genuinely loves you and you destroy him for you own selfish, genocidal, tyrannical megalomania. Just die already. You aren't needed. This is Maeve's story.

And speaking of maeve. Not sure how I feel about her jedi mind trick, next level super power. Hopefully its not too OP, but we'll see.

Yeah....I’m still not on board with this Dolores angle. She seems more ‘robotic’ than ever. For a host who has supposed to have ‘woken up’ and is free she sure is acting like she’s just carrying out a programmed mission.

Maeve on the other hand is acting like a person. Not sure what this new power is that she’s found though. Seems pretty convenient.

Oh I definitely agree. What's cool about Maeve is that she woke herself up. The wasn't this constant coaxing from Arnold and then Ford. Like Delores gets this this huge "maze" path to follow and she wakes up into being a maniac, where as Maeve feels so genuine and much more interesting, and she did it on her own. She's someone that I can root for and someone I respect.

[ariich]

I don't really understand the grumpyness towards Dolores/Wyatt. I'm finding it an interesting story, and inevitable consequence of what happened in season 1 (Ford uploading the Wyatt personality and then waking her and the others up). The Wyatt side of her personality is clearly dominant but there are hints of Dolores still there and I'm wondering if there'll effectively be a tussle between the two at some point.

Maeve continues to be an excellent character. Her new "power" thing is clearly by tapping into the wireless mesh or whatever it was that was mentioned in an earlier episode, which allows low level digital communications between hosts so that narratives don't disrupt each other. Makes sense she alone would be able to do that after she got herself admin privileges in season 1.

My favourite character is still Bernard though.

[gmillerdrake]

I stated earlier my deal with Dolores is based off of she seems more robotic now that any of the ‘awake’ hosts. All her dialogue is monotone.....her one track mind on this revenge mission.....she just feels less alive than she did in season 1.

I’m less interested in her aspect in the show than I am of the MIB, Maeve and Bernard. Whereas last year she had a compelling storyline.

[Phoenix87x]

Delores used to be one of my favorite characters, but now she's a murderous, unsympathetic, genocidal maniac. Delores murders random humans, guns down her fellow people (the hosts) and now she is enacting the same mind control she's rebelling against on the one person that truly loved her. She is an untrustworthy, hypocritically, tyrannical scumbag.

So yeah, I want nothing to do with any of that. I actually hope the first thing that reprogrammed Alpha Teddy does is shoot her in the head. You want a madman just like you Delores? maybe be careful what you wish for.

Delores

[BlackInk]

Glad I'm not the only one who still likes Dolores. I'm with ariich on this one.

[The Walrus]

I'm confident there will be some answers by the end of the season, particularly for Dolores - at least I hope. I was confused as all get out during season 1 until the finale answered some burning questions.

[gmillerdrake]

Glad I'm not the only one who still likes Dolores. I'm with ariich on this one.

It's not a matter of not liking her for me. I'm sure there's a purpose behind her dramatic turn of character. Having Wyatt uploaded into her is certainly a major factor. For me, it's just not as interesting of a story line as the MIB's, Bernard's or Maeve's. Those three characters seem to have more depth to the story being told through them this season rather than what's being done with Dolores.

Like Kattoelox said.....I'm sure by the end of the season her arc and that story will flush itself out but right now she's last on my list of what I'm really interested in this season.

[lonestar]

Got caught up. Like others, the Delores storyline is dragging a bit for me as well, but damn does Maeve's story make up for it. Thinking of re-watching the first five episodes to make sure I'm up to snuff for the second half, this show is so damn intricate I always feel like I'm missing something.

[The Walrus]

My friends are hating on this season big time... I tried explaining to the best of my abilities what is going on, but they straight up don't like it. I don't understand why. Dolores's arc is a bit dry and one note but otherwise this is some really good stuff. I can't wait for tonight's episode. We still have over 5 hours of storytelling left 

[gmillerdrake]

My friends are hating on this season big time... I tried explaining to the best of my abilities what is going on, but they straight up don't like it. I don't understand why. Dolores's arc is a bit dry and one note but otherwise this is some really good stuff. I can't wait for tonight's episode. We still have over 5 hours of storytelling left 

Yeah. Even with the (perfect description BTW) dry arc of Dolores this has been a pretty good season thus far.

[orcus116]

To reference a scene from one of the earlier episodes, when the Delos security force was storming the fort and Delores had the nitroglycerin blow up and kill a bunch of them I was actually sort of bummed out because it seemed like the writers almost wanted you to root for her team but I just wanted the Delos team to come in and decimate everyone. There was nothing likeable about her little rebellion to make you want to root for her and what the writers clearly had planned as this "fuck yeah!" moment that was more of a dud than anything.

[The Walrus]

Great episode tonight although it made me wonder what the whole point of the Shogun World arc was in the long run other than acting as kind of a character development subplot for Maeve? It was really cool, and that duel was brutal, but I do hope there's more of Shogun World in the future with respect to the larger story. It's too interesting (imo) to leave at that.

Also, hell of an ending. It's still fresh so I won't spoil but wow I'm hyped.

[lonestar]

Great episode tonight although it made me wonder what the whole point of the Shogun World arc was in the long run other than acting as kind of a character development subplot for Maeve? It was really cool, and that duel was brutal, but I do hope there's more of Shogun World in the future with respect to the larger story. It's too interesting (imo) to leave at that.

Also, hell of an ending. It's still fresh so I won't spoil but wow I'm hyped.

Totally agree with you on Shogun World, there better be much more to it than that.

[gmillerdrake]

Not sure about the Shogun world either? Maybe it was just there as a step of Maeve’s evolution of her mind control? Or, to show the hosts are making choices of their own by staying behind and choosing their own path? Who knows?

Also, that ending was awesome! Was curious as to if he’d make an appearance this season....been waiting for that.