Author Topic: Westworld  (Read 17206 times)

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #175 on: November 22, 2016, 01:05:18 PM »
As much as I like the show I find it hard to believe that two low level techs would have the ability to assist a host to bypass all of the (what I presume to be) highly complicated coding involved to keep the hosts obedient to their programming like they have Maeve.....and that they/she could parade around the complex in the manner in which they do and not have been discovered yet. Which is why, until proven otherwise, just like in the coup situation with the board....I believe Ford knows about it and is just allowing it to happen, if not the one directly responsible for her behavior changing in the first place.

Maeve made a comment to the one guy that she was still smarter than him even at level 14.  was she implying he was a bot (or maybe I misunderstand what she meant)?  Also, we know someone else is involved with Maeve because those two workers brought up the point that someone with way more access had been tweaking Maeve.

Interesting about the level 14 comment. I took it as her only being at level 14 but then again, she could have just been insulting him if he was a host. And, I do recall that comment as well as someone higher up tweaking her. I have to believe Ford is allowing and assisting her. If not he then maybe Bernard?
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #176 on: November 22, 2016, 01:17:47 PM »
As much as I like the show I find it hard to believe that two low level techs would have the ability to assist a host to bypass all of the (what I presume to be) highly complicated coding involved to keep the hosts obedient to their programming like they have Maeve.....and that they/she could parade around the complex in the manner in which they do and not have been discovered yet. Which is why, until proven otherwise, just like in the coup situation with the board....I believe Ford knows about it and is just allowing it to happen, if not the one directly responsible for her behavior changing in the first place.

Maeve made a comment to the one guy that she was still smarter than him even at level 14.  was she implying he was a bot (or maybe I misunderstand what she meant)?  Also, we know someone else is involved with Maeve because those two workers brought up the point that someone with way more access had been tweaking Maeve.

Interesting about the level 14 comment. I took it as her only being at level 14 but then again, she could have just been insulting him if he was a host. And, I do recall that comment as well as someone higher up tweaking her. I have to believe Ford is allowing and assisting her. If not he then maybe Bernard?

If it's Bernard than it might as well be Ford.  My thought was Ford as well.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #177 on: November 27, 2016, 07:53:05 PM »
wot

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #178 on: November 27, 2016, 09:43:00 PM »
Longstanding suspicion confirmed. Ever since that first scene of Ford showing Bernard the picture there was a part of me that was curious as to if Bernard was Arnold. I know he's not 'the' Arnold but Ford intended him to be.

This show is nuts. That time change was subtle and I'm sure meant to confuse,  with Dolores hurt and cut open and running while with William (and in his time) then she's suddenly repaired and 'fine'.....finds the town that is now dug up and then the MIB (William) finds her in his timeline. That whole sequence was very intense and informative. Looks like Arnold drove them all crazy with his idea for a narrative code in their head.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #179 on: November 28, 2016, 08:02:41 AM »
Wow, that was crazy.

When this is all over, I'm going to have to watch the whole thing again.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #180 on: November 28, 2016, 09:48:49 AM »
When this is all over, I'm going to have to watch the whole thing again.

Absolutely. This is like a Dream Theater album. No way to digest it in one sitting, much less two. It may need multiple watches to fully grasp.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #181 on: November 28, 2016, 10:10:10 AM »
When this is all over, I'm going to have to watch the whole thing again.

Absolutely. This is like a Dream Theater album. No way to digest it in one sitting, much less two. It may need multiple watches to fully grasp.

This.  I've been watching episodes twice, but I think a whole season rewatch at the end would do wonders for noticing things after all is said and done.  Another awesome episode. 

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #182 on: November 28, 2016, 11:15:56 AM »
Also trying to figure out who's behind that security guy being led out to the middle of nowhere and being either killed or taken hostage? The only thing I can think of right now is A. He's the only one left that knows that Elise is missing? B. He had a hunch after his conversation with Bernard that Bernard was acting strange so Ford took care of him before he got to nosey?
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #183 on: November 28, 2016, 11:18:56 AM »
Also trying to figure out who's behind that security guy being led out to the middle of nowhere and being either killed or taken hostage? The only thing I can think of right now is A. He's the only one left that knows that Elise is missing? B. He had a hunch after his conversation with Bernard that Bernard was acting strange so Ford took care of him before he got to nosey?

Yea, he seems to be the only one that thinks something is up with Bernard and also believes something is wrong with Elise which makes you think Ford could be after him.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #184 on: November 28, 2016, 05:35:32 PM »
Ok this is one of the best series ever.

Offline faizoff

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #185 on: November 28, 2016, 11:13:25 PM »
No shit sherlock. What an amazing ride this has been and with the finale being 90 mins long I cannot wait.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #186 on: November 29, 2016, 04:20:47 AM »
Also trying to figure out who's behind that security guy being led out to the middle of nowhere and being either killed or taken hostage? The only thing I can think of right now is A. He's the only one left that knows that Elise is missing? B. He had a hunch after his conversation with Bernard that Bernard was acting strange so Ford took care of him before he got to nosey?

I'll lean towards option B. too. They never really went anywhere in the story with it after that particular scene. Can't wait for the season finale!

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #187 on: November 30, 2016, 01:56:57 AM »
Quote
Jonathan Nolan took inspiration from video games like BioShock Infinite, Red Dead Redemption and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim to deal with the narrative's moral component on a spectrum. He explained the show would explore why "violence is in most of the stories we like to watch, but it isn't part of what we like to do" through the characters known as guests, who give payment to satisfy those urges. The autonomous existence of non-player characters in video games influenced the approach to the individual storylines in Westworld that are reset in a continuous loop.
Thought that was interesting. Also I didn't know JJ Abrams serves as one of the exec. producers.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #188 on: November 30, 2016, 06:30:25 AM »
I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #189 on: November 30, 2016, 06:41:10 AM »
Quote
Jonathan Nolan took inspiration from video games like BioShock Infinite, Red Dead Redemption and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim to deal with the narrative's moral component on a spectrum. He explained the show would explore why "violence is in most of the stories we like to watch, but it isn't part of what we like to do" through the characters known as guests, who give payment to satisfy those urges. The autonomous existence of non-player characters in video games influenced the approach to the individual storylines in Westworld that are reset in a continuous loop.
Thought that was interesting. Also I didn't know JJ Abrams serves as one of the exec. producers.

Yup and also that's cool he was inspired from those open world games which Westworld feels like.

I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.

True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.

Offline Chino

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #190 on: November 30, 2016, 06:44:43 AM »
I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.

True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.

The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #191 on: November 30, 2016, 06:48:56 AM »
I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.

True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.

The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).

Well sure, but the mystery of the park may not be there which is why I am wondering where the story can go.  Like can they do multiple timelines again? 

Offline Chino

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #192 on: November 30, 2016, 06:57:42 AM »
I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.

True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.

The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).

Well sure, but the mystery of the park may not be there which is why I am wondering where the story can go.  Like can they do multiple timelines again?

I have no idea. If they don't limit themselves to the present, there's 30+ years worth of characters and technology they can work with. I'd love to see a flashback to the opening day of westworld, when every host was like Old Bill.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #193 on: November 30, 2016, 07:31:26 AM »
I'm going to be so sad after next Sunday. I don't want this to end. I haven't been on a ride like this is a while.

True, but luckily it's signed on for another season although I have no idea where the show will go.

The door is wide open. It really all depends on how this season ends. The actress that plays Dolores said that S1 will not end on a cliff hanger. By not having to pick up where the story left off, they could literally start any new story they'd like (within reason).

Well sure, but the mystery of the park may not be there which is why I am wondering where the story can go.  Like can they do multiple timelines again?

I have no idea. If they don't limit themselves to the present, there's 30+ years worth of characters and technology they can work with. I'd love to see a flashback to the opening day of westworld, when every host was like Old Bill.

Don't forget the original Westworld also had Medieval world and Roman World. Set in Europe and Pompei respectfully. So, they could easily explore the other attractions of the park...and I'm still contending that when the MIB said he was a god in that world 'and other worlds' that's what he was talking about.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #194 on: December 01, 2016, 08:46:11 AM »
If Bernard is a copy of Arnold including his exterior, why doesn't anyone recognize him?

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #195 on: December 01, 2016, 08:50:12 AM »
If Bernard is a copy of Arnold including his exterior, why doesn't anyone recognize him?

No one knew Arnold it seems.  He was Ford's mysterious partner I thought.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #196 on: December 01, 2016, 09:17:45 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #197 on: December 01, 2016, 10:13:24 AM »
If Bernard is a copy of Arnold including his exterior, why doesn't anyone recognize him?
This was one of my biggest questions this week. I guess there's the possibility that Ford is the only one remaining (willingly or not) who was around when Arnold was still there. But Ed Harris's character at least seems to be aware of him.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #198 on: December 01, 2016, 11:23:19 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.

I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #199 on: December 01, 2016, 12:14:35 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.
I have to agree because even though I enjoy watching the show i'm not as hyped as others. No episode or event has really grabbed me like other show has other than the ending of last weeks episode.
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #200 on: December 01, 2016, 02:20:03 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.

I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.

I meant to add that I do think the acting is quite good, Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright in particular. I think Alan Sepinwall expresses it a bit better than I could.

http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/westworld-the-well-tempered-clavier-review/
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Re: Westworld
« Reply #201 on: December 01, 2016, 02:59:24 PM »
Political discussion post-election = pointless.
Nothing like getting a lecture on “what is and will happen” from the same people that just went 0 for 100 at bat during the election cycle.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #202 on: December 01, 2016, 03:08:41 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.

I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.

I meant to add that I do think the acting is quite good, Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright in particular. I think Alan Sepinwall expresses it a bit better than I could.

http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/westworld-the-well-tempered-clavier-review/

I do agree the character build hasn't been the greatest on this show.  I don't think the author of that article is wrong, and he hinted at this too, but for me (and it parallels that last episode) it is hard for me to build a feel for some of the main characters of the show because I know they aren't actual humans.  Bernard was the closest to giving some strong feelings since we all thought he was a real person, so his last few scenes did draw some emotion.  The actor was also amazing so that helped too.  I do think this show is more about the mystery and intrigue than the actual character developments.  I think MIB so far is really the only character having a personal story arc where his character evolves over the course of the season. 

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #203 on: December 01, 2016, 03:24:20 PM »
Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #204 on: December 01, 2016, 03:33:43 PM »
Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.

I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are.  But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for.  I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them.  For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real.  MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines. 

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #205 on: December 01, 2016, 04:06:29 PM »
I would say Bernard is the character who has garnered the most emotional attachment from me, even still. I liked Elsie too, but that didn't last.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #206 on: December 01, 2016, 04:08:39 PM »
Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.

I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are.  But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for.  I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them.  For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real.  MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines. 
Ah, well see, I think the difference is that I do care about those characters regardless of the fact that they are not human. And it feels to me that this is one of the key themes in the show.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #207 on: December 01, 2016, 05:18:10 PM »
Interesting, I don't agree at all, I'm loving the characters stories in this show. Bernard and Maeve in particular, and I'm really interested in (if the theories are correct) what happens to William.

I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with my point or the article, but I didn't mean to say the characters aren't interesting, they are.  But they haven't built any character up really to give an emotional feel for.  I attributed that to most of the characters not being human, but I do also feel the show hasn't focused on developing a lot about those characters so that you, the viewer, actually cares about them.  For me, I dont care if Maeve dies (or put in cold storage) because she isn't real.  MIB/William is the one person I can say I do have some emotional attachment towards since he has shown that he has real feelings and real struggles that he is dealing with in both timelines. 
Ah, well see, I think the difference is that I do care about those characters regardless of the fact that they are not human. And it feels to me that this is one of the key themes in the show.

Totally, which is why I mentioned my feelings kind of parallel what was going on with William in the last episode.  Which is a very interesting take on the show when you think about it.  It makes you question morality both in the show, and in real life.  Like why do I not care about the robot characters but you do?  Why does William care but Logan does not? 

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #208 on: December 01, 2016, 08:19:23 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority that thinks this show is just fine. Most of the storylines seem more interested in these mysteries/puzzles than focused on character development/good storytelling. I don't dislike watching it, and I'm quite curious to see where Sunday's finale goes, but I'm not by any means blown away so far.

I think what really grabs me is first off, the acting. IMO Hopkins is enchanting in every scene he's in. It's remarkable to me how great he is at captivating you. And the others have done well also. And I appreciate the thought that's been put in to blurring the line just enough to where it's not glaringly obvious we are dealing with multiple timelines...yet if you pay attention it's pretty evident. And then the story itself as far as what humanity truly is, creation, consciousness....it's all really well written IMO.

I meant to add that I do think the acting is quite good, Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright in particular. I think Alan Sepinwall expresses it a bit better than I could.

http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/westworld-the-well-tempered-clavier-review/

I agree with a lot of that. I enjoy watching the show and try to catch it when it airs when I can but it's not really a necessary watch for me in case I miss an episode. Like Sepinwall I felt nothing during the entire Bernard thing other than the Bernard reveal. In fact, Elsye was the only one I was bummed about because she actually seemed to have some whimsy to her in the "operations" side of the two storylines.

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Re: Westworld
« Reply #209 on: December 01, 2016, 09:57:28 PM »
I'm not fully invested in this show.  By that I mean, I'm watching it, enjoying it, but only watch it once and when the end credits roll, I don't really think about it much unless somebody else brings it up to me.

I haven't read everything here, so excuse me if this has already been discussed.  So do you think Logan is going to be the Man in Black?  Others have mentioned William, which also is a good theory.  Especially as it shows him starting white hat moving to black hat.

Sure it would be less of an arc for black hat to be black hat 30 so years later, but sometimes people want the "surprise arc" so badly that the common arc and surprise arc actually switch places.  But it is more about a couple of items associated.

1.  MIB pulls out a knife on Dolores and says let's get reacquainted.  Logan cut Dolores open with a knife.
2.  MIB is constantly searching for the "hidden game".  Logan is constantly telling William to avoid the obvious adventures.
3.  MIB is rich and is a corporate tycoon.  Logan clearly is high up in the corporate world.  Higher than William.  However, you could also say Logan dies and William inherits his corporate fortune via marrying Logan's sister (who later commits suicide creating the MIB).
4.  MIB says "The man I’d be asking died 35 years ago. Almost took this place with him. Almost, but not quite, thanks to me"

#4 needs more explanation.
William came to Westworld after Logan and after the massacre of 34 years ago.  In fact, what we saw was Willaim's first trip, so that guarantees the massacre and most likely Arnold's death happened pre-William, but not necessarily pre-Logan.

I really haven't paid very close attention to the show.  In fact, I usually watch it as I go to bed, so sometimes I start to fall asleep during the show and don't make a great effort to make sure I rewatch where I think I fell asleep.  And there are some things I can't square with MIB's personality and Logan's.  That could be on me for not watching the series in a more alert state.

An interesting theory that I basically pulled out of my butt is also that Ford was Arnold's creation.  He was "unique", didn't hate Arnold but didn't like the mindwipes as knowledge is power/growth.  He was to Arnold what Bernard was to Ford.  And when Arnold was gone, he created Bernard for companionship, help and also to feel superior (reverse the roles).  Possibly also because he could not kill others himself, so he needed the muscle (just as he may have used Dolores to do the original deed).  Knowing Bernard could not kill him but Bernard could enlist host help as he did, he made sure to hardwire the hosts to prevent the come uppance cycle.  Again, this isn't really based on anything other than plotting out multiple possibilities based off viewer intuition and past patterns of other stories. 

I should find the original Westworld and watch that before I watch the finale.
Political discussion post-election = pointless.
Nothing like getting a lecture on “what is and will happen” from the same people that just went 0 for 100 at bat during the election cycle.