Pet Sounds - 50th anniversary

[splent]

Today 50 years ago Pet Sounds was released. Where does it stand on your all time greatest albums? This is definitely one of the top 10 albums ever released - its influence on so much music... The harmonies on the album are just amazing.

[King Postwhore]

Legendary.

[Accelerando]

God Only Knows is one of my favorites

[KevShmev]

Great album, even if it is one I do not listen to that often.  God Only Knows is still one of the best songs ever written.

[Zydar]

It's my #2 album after Abbey Road, and I'd say that God Only Knows is probably my favourite song of all time. Or at least tied with Penny Lane.

[Zantera]

Good album.

[Mladen]

I got into The Beach Boys extremely late, but Pet sounds quickly became one of my all time favorite albums. It only took a few listens for me to realize this is something exceptional. I know there's an answer, You still believe in me, Sloop John B, Don't talk, God only knows... So many great songs.

[ReaperKK]

I've never heard the album but I will check it out today.

Sound Opinions did a great album dissection on it. https://www.soundopinions.org/show/546

[masterthes]

Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows are two of my favorite Beach Boys songs. I also have a soft spot for Sloop John B

[Outcrier]

Great album. In particular:

God Only Knows
Don't Talk (Put Your Head in My Shoulder)
Caroline No
I Just Wasn't Made for These Times
Waiting for the Day
Wouldn't It Be Nice

All fantastic songs.

[hefdaddy42]

A glorious album, and demonstrative of the genius of Brian Wilson.

Check out the documentary The Wrecking Crew for info on the session musicians who recorded this album with Wilson (yes, it was recorded by session musicians, not the Beach Boys - well, they ARE on it, but they are mixed into the main musicians).  Fantastic stuff.

[Orbert]

Good album.  I like The Beach Boys, but to be honest, a lot of their stuff all sounds the same, and Pet Sounds is no different.  Great harmonies, nice arrangements, but it wasn't the Oh My Fucking God This Is So Fucking Amazing album that so many people seem to think it is.  Right up there with Abbey Road?  Please.

[Outcrier]

It isn't right up there with Abbey Road, it's better than it 

[Orbert]

And yet no one has ever managed to say what it is that's so amazing about this album.  Every time I ask, I get "It's just great.  If you don't hear that, I can't explain it to you."  Yes, it sounds good.  I just don't understand what is supposedly so amazing about this album.

[Outcrier]

And yet no one has ever managed to say what it is that's so amazing about this album. 

The songwriting.

[bosk1]

I'm with Orbert.  That says nothing and doesn't really do anything to change my "meh" opinion of the album.

[King Postwhore]

I don't know Bob, I've read so many interviews on why Pet Sounds was amazing.  From the songwriting to the production.  It I remember, both the Beatles and The Beach Boys would hear each others album and make it a challenge to better their next record.  Here is Brian Wilson talking about getting inspired listening to The Beatles.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html

Bruce Johnson on playing Pet Sounds for John, Paul and Keith Moon.

https://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/11/19/beach-boys-beatles-pet-sounds/

John Lennon to Brian Wilson, "After it was released, Wilson says today, John Lennon rang him and told him it was the greatest album ever made, an opinion that would be repeated again and again in subsequent years".

[Outcrier]

It's a legendary album mainly because of the songwriting, simply as that. But, if someone thinks an album is "meh", i don't really know if there's a way to make it see how good it is.

[Cool Chris]

I have tried to connect with this album a couple times, and never really did. I don't dislike it in anyway, so maybe I am in the "meh" camp.

Though Sloop John B might be an all-time top 5 song of mine. So there's that.

[Orbert]

I don't know Bob, I've read so many interviews on why Pet Sounds was amazing.  From the songwriting to the production.  It I remember, both the Beatles and The Beach Boys would hear each others album and make it a challenge to better their next record.  Here is Brian Wilson talking about getting inspired listening to The Beatles.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/04/brian-wilson-on-the-beach-boys-rivalry-with-the-beatles-and-flying-solo.html

Bruce Johnson on playing Pet Sounds for John, Paul and Keith Moon.

https://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/11/19/beach-boys-beatles-pet-sounds/

John Lennon to Brian Wilson, "After it was released, Wilson says today, John Lennon rang him and told him it was the greatest album ever made, an opinion that would be repeated again and again in subsequent years".

I was mostly talking about discussions here on DTF, but also in general, I suppose.  The production is great, but I suppose if the songs don't thrill me, then I'm not left with much.  Don't get me wrong; I do think the songs are good.  Nice melodies, great harmonies.  I just don't hear anything really mindblowing.  Those two articles talk a lot about how great the albums were, but again very little about what was so great about them.  I mean specifics.  I studied music theory; I arrange music as a hobby, for my own amusement.  Come on, I handle it.

With The Beatles, I hear arrangements that blew the existing forms to bits.  The use of atypical structures, atypical instrumentation, all kinds of things that just had not been done before.  With The Beach Boys, I hear a very polished vocal group with a lot of pretty songs that mostly sound the same.

Maybe that's the problem.  The Beatles were musicians, and I'm drawn to what they did musically, and how much new ground was being broken.  The Beach Boys were a vocal group, and to me, there's only so much you can do with vocal arrangements.

[King Postwhore]

Totally get that.  On this board most are into 70's and up when it comes to their music taste.  Not all but the majority.

[Elite]

I completely agree with all that Orbert just said, for basically the same reasons as well. Perhaps it doesn't really help me that I've only heard the full album once or twice, even though I've heard songs like Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows many more times. I like those, but not in the same regard I like the music I call my absolute favourites. Nice album, probably even a very good album, but if we're going strictly for fake-arguments proclaiming it's good without telling me why so, I'm not buying it at all.

[Outcrier]

but if we're going strictly for fake-arguments proclaiming it's good without telling me why so, I'm not buying it at all.

[King Postwhore]

The accolades over the decades and musicians proclaiming how good it is should tell you it's not fake.

[Elite]

I know it's not fake, but I guess it's just not for me then.

[bosk1]

The accolades over the decades and musicians proclaiming how good it is should tell you it's not fake.

Not necessarily.  A lot of musicians are complete dolts.  Something isn't good because a group of musicians say it is.  Again, if you like it, cool.  But Orbert is right.  The "argument" that it is good basically boils down to "it's good because a lot of people think it is."  Sorry, but:

if we're going strictly for fake-arguments proclaiming it's good without telling me why so, I'm not buying it at all.

[Outcrier]

To me, either you enjoy an album or you don't. I doubt explanations will change the opinion of someone who doesn't like it.

[bosk1]

You are right.  Explanations may not change my enjoyment of the album.  But that isn't what is being discussed.  What is being discussed is whether it is a "great" or "amazing" album.  That is something that can be explained, if an album is truly great.  But there hasn't really been any explanation here, other than:
1.  "The songwriting"
2.  A bunch of musicians think it is amazing.

Okay.  All albums have songwriting.  Tell me more or that means nothing.  And as for "musicians like it," I already addressed why that is unpersuasive.

[Outcrier]

That is something that can be explained, if an album is truly great.

How so?

[Orbert]

It's great because they took standard vocal arrangements in new directions.
It's great because the production on the album is flawless.
It's great because no one else had ever <fill in the blank> before, and no one has done it as well since then.
Etc.

There are any number of things that can take something from good to great.  All I ever hear is how great it is, and nothing about why.  Even those two articles linked above, lots of raving, no specifics.  Even if I don't particularly like something, I can appreciate what a landmark it was in recording history if someone could actually tell me why it was a landmark in recording history.  I actually like this album, but would honestly like to appreciate it more.

[splent]

 When Brian Wilson heard rubber soul, he had the inspiration to write pet sounds. When the Beatles heard pet sounds, they had the inspiration to record Sgt Pepper.

[King Postwhore]

The accolades over the decades and musicians proclaiming how good it is should tell you it's not fake.

Not necessarily.  A lot of musicians are complete dolts.  Something isn't good because a group of musicians say it is.  Again, if you like it, cool.  But Orbert is right.  The "argument" that it is good basically boils down to "it's good because a lot of people think it is."  Sorry, but:

if we're going strictly for fake-arguments proclaiming it's good without telling me why so, I'm not buying it at all.

So many fans go nuts over the album as well good sir. 

[bosk1]

That is something that can be explained, if an album is truly great.

How so?

By laying out your criteria for what makes a great album and then showing that the album in question met or exceeded several of those criteria.  For example, I might say "Some of the criteria I feel make a 'great album' are: solid album sales, more than one high charting single, accessibility across musical genres, songs with varying structures, songs with strong vocals, songs that are catchy, and some larger social impact that transcends music."  (not saying those are the only criteria, but by way of example only) 

Let's apply that formula to Michael Jackson's Thriller:
-Solid album sales?  Check.  It smashed records and became the highest selling album of all time (at the time, anyway).
-Several high-charting singles?  Check.  7 top 10's.  Nobody had ever done that before.
-Cross-genre appeal?  Check.  It lit up pop, R&B, and rock charts.
-Varying song structures?  For pop music, check.  But your mileage and buy-in may vary with this factor.
-Strong vocals?  Check.  Michael had range and power, and also showed a lot of diversity and use of different styles.
-Catchy songs?  Check.  Little explanation required.
-Social impact?  "Thriller enabled Jackson to break down racial barriers in pop music via his appearances on MTV and meeting with President of the United States Ronald Reagan at the White House."  Not to mention the fact that it, along with some other things, led to a lot of other things that transcended music, such as the USA for Africa charity (remember the We Are The World song/video?).  Checkeroo.

Anyhow, you get the idea. 

In contrast, let's do Lulu, by Lou Reed and Metallica.
-Solid album sales?  Nope.
-Several high-charting singles?  Nope.
-Cross-genre appeal?  Er...okay, let's say "yes" just for argument's sake even though I think it might be a stretch to say there was any fona fide "appeal."
-Varying song structures?  Again, I'll give this one.
-Strong vocals?  Mmm...okay.
-Catchy songs?  Not really, by most people's standards.
-Social impact?  Zero.

So, great album by my criteria?  Not even close.  It was a stretch to say that really any of my criteria were met. 

Anyhow, this is requiring much more explanation that it should.  A lot of people like the album in question, no doubt.  Few if any actively dislike it.  That's all well and good.  I haven't heard why it's great.  But if you like it, more power to you.

[NoseofNicko]

One of the greatest albums of all time. I think I like it more than any Beatles album.

[splent]

 Seriously bosk? You're basing an albums greatness based on how popular it was? There are a number of great albums that did not sell well, did not have strong social appeal, and did not become truly appreciate it until years or even decades after they were released.