Author Topic: Vocals on Breaking the Fourth Wall (Read 4152 times)

IdoSC · « **on:** February 28, 2016, 02:38:35 PM »

So, I'm sorry for bringing up discussion about this release about 2 years too late. It has been discussed and argued a lot that this album sounds, or is, touched up in the vocals department. This is not, however, the focus of the discussion I want to bring up today - recently I've seen a lot of comments saying that James' vocals are really bad on this DVD.

Now, it is a little funny to me because some people say that they're touched up and others (or maybe even sometimes the same people) say that they sound really bad and off. But to me, it sounds mostly fine - James doesn't have too much of this weird nasal sound his voice sometimes gets with bad shooting/mixing (Wacken 2015, Chaos in Motion), and he hits most of the notes fairly decently, without too much of a straining sound (I mean, there is a strain on that note in The Shattered Fortress, but that's in the album version as well).

So basically, my question is - do you find the vocals in this release to be bad, or is that just the general Youtube "They should've fired him 20 years ago" mentality? And if you do find them bad, would you mind pointing some references to things I might be missing?

Thanks, and hope this will be a civil discussion/question thread. I'm not judging anyone in any way, neither James nor people who think his performance was bad, just genuinely curious.

Dream Team · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2016, 02:48:19 PM »

They're fine by me. The Awake songs are NOT easy.

Adami · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2016, 02:49:49 PM »

I think I've seen the dvd once or twice, but the vocals always seemed fine. Sadly, I have other complaints, but the vocals aren't really one of them.

Sycsa · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2016, 03:05:36 PM »

I think the vocals on BTFW are excellent. They've been touched up here and there, it's easy to detect some autotuning and other fixes if you compare the bootleg from the show with the official release (for instance, his voice at the "Cowards for salvation. Money, love and fame" part of IT cracked).

McNugg · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2016, 04:16:49 PM »

I think they're really good. James was on really good form for most of that tour and this show was no exception. The Awake material was a particular highlight imo. There are a few pitch corrected sections that kinda bug me whenever I listen it through, but otherwise really happy with it.

pcs90 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2016, 05:56:05 PM »

While I will always prefer the studio versions of these songs, I would say this is one of James' better performances on a live DVD release.

cramx3 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2016, 07:29:38 PM »

No complaints from me. Probably their second best Blu-Ray/DVD behind Budokan IMO.

1neeto · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2016, 07:41:49 PM »

Quote from: cramx3 on February 28, 2016, 07:29:38 PM

No complaints from me. Probably their second best Blu-Ray/DVD behind Budokan IMO.

Budokan? JLB sang in the key of suck flat minor for most of that performance. BTFW was pretty good, he did great on those Awake songs (which I also watched live in Seattle on that tour) and for a 2.5 hour show, he did manage to not blow his voice. And remember that after a show they have to pack up and do the whole thing again in another city a few days later. I think Luna Park was their best live release in a long time. I go back to that blue ray way more often than BTFW. But maybe that's also because Luna Park is the ADTOE tour which I think it's a much better album than DT12.

Dream Team · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2016, 07:43:47 PM »

Quote from: cramx3 on February 28, 2016, 07:29:38 PM

No complaints from me. Probably their second best Blu-Ray/DVD behind Budokan IMO.

You mis-spelled "Score".

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2016, 09:32:17 PM »

I didn't see many complaints on DTF about LaBrie's vocals on BTFW, and I recall him sounding very good on it. I'd say it's one of his best live album performances. Being a live album, he only got one take at vocals, so I have no problem with some minor touch ups like pitch correction.

Disciple_Kickstand · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2016, 10:03:19 PM »

Bands have been touching up live performances for a looooong time. I guarantee that vocals and other things have been tweaked in production just like every other official live release from any band big enough to afford it. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. When your at the show, in the flesh, the experience really covers up a lot of unflattering moments that the best if bands have on the best of nights. When you record it suddenly all those things which are normally suppressed by the mind in the heat of the show are very much highlighted. Personally I want the experience of a show to be captured as much as possible for me to enjoy to the fullest at home. It's a live album, not a bootleg. Can't understand why people single out James so much for this sort of thing. Every vocalist gets the same treatment in almost every live release. Especially guys who have as challenging material as James does.

Enalya · « **Reply #11 on:** February 29, 2016, 02:24:37 AM »

^ thank you (my thoughts)

PixelDream · « **Reply #12 on:** February 29, 2016, 04:48:04 AM »

I've seen the entire DVD maybe one time, but overall I thought his vocals were fine and better than on Luna Park. I forgive and actually endorse a bit of pitch fixes, it makes the end product much more enjoyable.

One thing that's bugging me ever since Chycki started mixing though.. it's like JLB's got two modes nowadays: extremely breathy, chorused, 'close' intimate vocals, and high screeching. It's like they're compressing the hell out of those vocals. The instruments get similar treatments although were not talking about that now.. I miss the 'honest' sound of a DVD like Live Scenes from New York.

cramx3 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 29, 2016, 06:40:28 AM »

Quote from: 1neeto on February 28, 2016, 07:41:49 PM

Quote from: cramx3 on February 28, 2016, 07:29:38 PM
No complaints from me. Probably their second best Blu-Ray/DVD behind Budokan IMO.

Budokan? JLB sang in the key of suck flat minor for most of that performance. BTFW was pretty good, he did great on those Awake songs (which I also watched live in Seattle on that tour) and for a 2.5 hour show, he did manage to not blow his voice. And remember that after a show they have to pack up and do the whole thing again in another city a few days later. I think Luna Park was their best live release in a long time. I go back to that blue ray way more often than BTFW. But maybe that's also because Luna Park is the ADTOE tour which I think it's a much better album than DT12.

I meant as in overall concert, not specific to JLB. Regardless, I have no problem with his vocals on that one either although I know that is another concert that he gets some criticism from.

McNugg · « **Reply #14 on:** February 29, 2016, 07:00:35 AM »

I should add, the auto-tune bothers me not because of JLB's performance but because it is just unnecessary. Just leave the imperfections in, it is live afterall.

Listened to far too many bootlegs from that tour, some shows worse, some better than the BtFW and not once did I think "autotune would have made that much nicer to listen to"

lordnafaryus · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2016, 11:46:31 AM »

Apart from the fact that he seemed to forget the words to 'Enigma Machine' he sounded pretty solid for the rest of the show

Woodworker1 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2016, 07:14:41 AM »

BTFW is my favorite Dream Theater DVD, partly because the vocals are superior to previous DVDs.

Dream Team · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2016, 08:36:04 AM »

Quote from: Woodworker1 on March 04, 2016, 07:14:41 AM

BTFW is my favorite Dream Theater DVD, partly because the vocals are superior to previous DVDs.

C'mon man. Better than Score??

Virtualman64 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2016, 08:45:33 AM »

I was pleased with his vocals on BTFW,also on LALP.Probably two of his best performances in my opnion.My only complaint is I feel JP's guitar is always too high in the mix(or maybe it's my devices)and that's coming from someone who feels JP is the best technical guitarist on the planet.

pdurbin22 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2016, 10:16:34 AM »

I think his vocals are totally fine here. "Score" is still a highlight, but he was 8 years younger then. He's still in solid form, especially for a guy in his early 50's.

That said, I can barely listen to "OIALT". His vocal damage was painfully noticeable. Even if he's not at his peak nowadays, he's still light years better than he was during this period.

IdoSC · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2016, 11:57:15 AM »

Quote from: Disciple_Kickstand on February 28, 2016, 10:03:19 PM

Bands have been touching up live performances for a looooong time. I guarantee that vocals and other things have been tweaked in production just like every other official live release from any band big enough to afford it. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. When your at the show, in the flesh, the experience really covers up a lot of unflattering moments that the best if bands have on the best of nights. When you record it suddenly all those things which are normally suppressed by the mind in the heat of the show are very much highlighted. Personally I want the experience of a show to be captured as much as possible for me to enjoy to the fullest at home. It's a live album, not a bootleg. Can't understand why people single out James so much for this sort of thing. Every vocalist gets the same treatment in almost every live release. Especially guys who have as challenging material as James does.

This really wasn't about the touch ups, I'm mostly fine with that as compared to bootlegs from the tour it doesn't seem too different and I'd probably be more annoyed with "fuck ups" than I am with the current "touch ups" (which for me personally is not bothering at all).

This was more about how many people think that his performance in that DVD was terrible even with the touch ups, and me not being able to hear that at all and thinking his performance was great. So I figured I'd ask about it.

Onno · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2016, 02:20:26 AM »

I really like his vocals on this DVD. What I don't like is the loud master and the fact that the orchestra and choir are inaudible.

ErHaO · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:06:21 AM »

I liked this disc a lot and will probably give it a spin again soon. One of their best imo. Budokan has annoying vocals at many moments (best instrumental section though), Score has a less interesting setlist the first half (for me, but also quite some "best version" parts), LALP has this utterly terrible breathing during softer parts which ruins the acoustic songs/ballads, Scenes is a bit raw but I love it overall. I can't be bothered with Chaos and OIALT. But overall I feel Breaking the Fourth Wall is one of their most consistent releases. Not my favourite, but close. Yes, the choir and orchestra aren't used to the degree I would've wanted, but that doesn't make DT's actual performance any less.

Quote from: Onno on March 08, 2016, 02:20:26 AM

orchestra and choir are inaudible.

It has been a while since I last viewed BTFW but yes, this bothers me. However, I remember there were definitely moments I could hear the choir at times (IT). I wonder if there was something wrong or with the string sound in particular? I also recall getting a bit of playback vibes during the string section in IT, or do you actually hear them there?

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2016, 09:10:37 AM »

Quote from: ErHaO on March 08, 2016, 09:06:21 AM

It has been a while since I last viewed BTFW but yes, this bothers me. However, I remember there were definitely moments I could hear the choir at times (IT). I wonder if there was something wrong or with the string sound in particular? I also recall getting a bit of playback vibes during the string section in IT, or do you actually hear them there?

I did a direct comparison of the string section of IT to the studio version, and it's almost the same. There are one or two additional articulations, so there is at least some live orchestra in there, but I'd say the mix is about 75% studio, 25% live. I recall other parts of the strings/choir in the show sounding synth.
I think there must have been a problem with the recording on the day, and they just had to do the best they could. The end product still sounds very good though.

Architeuthis · « **Reply #24 on:** March 08, 2016, 10:32:16 AM »

Vocals sound fine to me on BTFW. Not quite as good as Score, but still good! The second half of Live At Luna is spot on. Vocals a little pitchy during first half, BITS comes to mind.

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Author Topic: Vocals on Breaking the Fourth Wall (Read 4152 times)