Author Topic: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?  (Read 10501 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2016, 09:48:34 AM »
I would love for DT to go back to NOT using click tracks for their next tour (after all of the Astonishing shows).

So would I. I can't imagine MM would drift too far off tempo, but it would give them the freedom to improvise a bit and feel out what tempos work best live.

I really doubt they would go back. I get the impression MM prides himself in being to able to play so well to click, and the other guys are probably happy that they can play the music to album pace.

I am not so sure.  I think you are right that he does pride himself on being able to do it.  But he has also said several times that it is stressful and, sometimes, just NOT fun for him to be a slave to the click.  Putting it all together, I think he takes great professional pride in being able to play either way, and will do his best to excel with or without it, but that he would welcome eventually dropping it again.



@Chino:  The practical alternative is just to have someone else triggering everything.  In some bands, the drummer does it.  I know Jordan has triggered samples in the past.  But to be the sole guy triggering everything on top of just playing the complex parts those guys have to play, I think it would be too much.  They would have to either scale back the samples, or have someone else doing all the triggering.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2016, 11:13:54 AM »
I think when it comes to triggers, having a backstage person do them would be entirely permissible. IMHO.
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Online Adami

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2016, 11:17:03 AM »
Triggers without a click can be very problematic, especially depending on how long they are.

If you have an entire chorus of backing vocals, the band has to play to the exact tempo at which they were recorded or else it sounds awful. If it's as short as a word here or word there like they did with In the Presence of Enemies (the low vocals on the 2nd part) then that's possible, and DT even did that back in the day.

But anything more than a second or two long, and it can cause major problems.


Edit: One good example of how problematic it is to use samples without a click is Metallica's Enter Sandman. I don't think I've ever heard a live version of that song where the band prayer sample doesn't get cut off too early.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 11:27:06 AM by Adami »
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Online mikeyd23

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2016, 11:20:38 AM »
Triggers without a click can be very problematic, especially depending on how long they are.

If you have an entire chorus of backing vocals, the band has to play to the exact tempo at which they were recorded or else it sounds awful. If it's as short as a word here or word there like they did with In the Presence of Enemies (the low vocals on the 2nd part) then that's possible, and DT even did that back in the day.

But anything more than a second or two long, and it can cause major problems.

Yeah exactly this. That's why if you are looping something in, you pretty much have to be playing to a click.

Offline pringkaarwanda

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2016, 03:11:35 PM »
What a great thread about this click track !!
I myself, is a drummer. I have been used click track with my band when we jamming and performing live, it's been over 2 years, and it very helpful for me, and us

Me and my band was some kind of tribute band to Dream Theater, we perform many many of Dream Theater song.
And we have no keyboard player here, so you know what happen, the DT song was not good at all without keyboard when you played it with your band, and that problem was started to worried me.
People, the audience, even us, can't enjoy DT song very much because no keyboard when we play it live
Because keyboard has been an very important aspect in Dream Theater

Since Mangini era, I start to configured that some how, Dream Theater playing their song in very correct tempo and time, I even try to sync their live video from YouTube with Original song, and it is match between video and the mp3, if you know what I am talking about here.
And then I revealed that Mike Mangini has using click track in his ear monitor and he give all the rest of members the tempo of the song.

It suddenly give me an idea to make my own click track too
But you know Dream Theater, their song was complex, with tempo and time signature changing almost all the song
And I start to learn every software that allows me to make various tempo and time signature. Until now, I used cubase to make my click track.
And since then, I start to searching all keyboard stem I can get on the Internet. Thanks so so very much to those of them who give me the keyboard stem and isolated keyboard track they have..
And so I start to make tempo and time signature, and then synchronize the click track with Isolated keyboard track I have for DT song
And I start to configure it, how can my ear monitor hear only the click track, mean while in the same time, in the output speaker, come out keyboard only. And I found the way for it, using my sound card device.

And there you go, me and my band until now, always play DT song, without keyboard player but somehow keyboard sound out of nowhere, and make our perform was getting better than ever..
Of course I, MUST REMEMBER exactly where the song start and end, I have no other but the click track only in my ear monitor. So I must be careful and try not to out of the click track. If I did any mistakes when we live, and the keyboard sound start out of sync, I immediately turning off the keyboard sound from monitor just behind my kit, and we gonna continue the whole song without any click track on me and keyboard sound on speaker anymore, but thanks God it never happen when we performing live
And of course my other friend did not hear any click track like I am, so when the song start with guitar first, I must in very focused communication with him, and I start counting the tempo as I hear in my ear monitor, so he can start playing his guitar with the tempo I give, I usually hit hihat slowly or hit my stick for him.

For how I know when the song start, yes I always give a click before start playing
8 click, double time 4/4, if the song start immediately, so I have a longer time to sync my self to click track and not shocked me. For example, The Enemy Inside, or Constant Motion with guitar first.
4 click, one time 4/4, if the song start with keyboard only. For example, A Nightmare to Remember.

Now we developed, not only use the keyboard track, but also we can backing track for backing vocals or guitar too.. Just like outcry song, before in drum electric part, my guitarist use his second melody sync with my click track and comes out from speaker, give him very great performance on stage..
We also use another sound and voice that make our performance cooler just like we use track "Hold it now, wait a minute, come on !!" In Take The Time song, or we use ambulance and car crash sound in A Nightmare to remember
Some month ago, we even try to use back screen video, for our next performance. And it goes very very well without any problem !!!
We try to play The Enemy Inside with keyboard track, and our back screen video, show The Enemy Inside Official Video Clip from Dream Theater
I have to tell you, it is a very great experience and very helpful to make our performance getting better and stay in good tempo.
As I drummer and the leader in my band, I must knowing very well what I am doing here, and I have practice to drumming and sync my self with the click track. I must remember all time signature and how the tempo is going, and I must be the TEMPO for all my band members, I am the click track for them, that's how everything works in last 2 years in my band

Soon I will try upload some videos of me and my band playing Dream Theater live with me using click track and you can hear the sound of keyboard comes out from speakers..


Umm, sorry for my bad english, I am from Indonesia, hehehe

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2016, 01:12:23 AM »
Holy crap...kudo's to you and your friends for just attempting to play a DT song.....
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Offline pringkaarwanda

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2016, 03:29:12 PM »
As I said before, I will try to post some video of me and my band, playing Dream Theater song live, using click track and isolated keyboard track as backing track.
If allowed, I post it here to you all. But if it breaking the rule, feel free to delete this post and remind me, thanks  ;D  :tup

Here I give you 3 videos as example in different situation about sync between the band, the click track and the keyboard track. Sorry about poor quality video & audio. Sorry about low volume of the keyboard track, please use headset to hear it, and sorry for all our mistakes when playing all that song. You know it's so hard to play Dream Theater song hahaha  :lol
Oh, and very thanks to Mr. Junghwan Kim from Seoul, for very great job Isolated Keyboard Track for Outcry & The Enemy Inside.
For Lost Not Forgotten Isolated Keyboard Track, that is a midi, I made it using Cubase VST HALion.


1. Lost Not Forgotten
https://youtu.be/yhiLgODuT6Q
This song started with piano solo, and then all band member start together. You can see me on the drum, counting 4/4 to inform my friend when we can start the song together after piano solo

2. The Enemy Inside
https://youtu.be/DHbVcQdf0D4
This song start immediately, all together. You can see me on the drum, counting 4/4 after I press start on my hidden laptop behind the kit. The guitarist staring at me to know my cue to start the song. In those event in the video, I still using one time 4/4 to come in the song. But now, I've update the click track, and give me double time 4/4 to start the song. So it give me a little time to prepare count 4/4 and cue all member to start the song. Sadly the keyboard track volume was too low in the middle, so we cant hear that majestic keyboard solo  :-[

3. Outcry
https://youtu.be/GzgcWciW6qc
Like Lost Not Forgotten, this song start after keyboard intro. I give 2/4 to all member to start the song, just like the original song. In minute 1:43, you can hear second melody of guitar come in too, not only keyboard, but we also use second melody of guitar as a backing track, just like what I've said before.
And in this video, you can see what happen when I make mistake when I forgot the click track and not correctly give cue to the vocalist, to start singing in 3:03. Fortunately the vocalist realize there was no string come in and know that is false moment to start sing, and he just try to sing after next 4/4. And another mistake, when the guitarist start playing alone without me drumming as his tempo in minute 6:05. I was late to give him cue and tempo, so he play on his own. But I must keep playing in my click track, causing him out of sync for a while. Fortunately in 6:13 he can rejoin us again after realize there something wrong with us on stage, hahahaha.  :facepalm: :lol :biggrin:

Offline MikeDavis67

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2016, 08:58:02 AM »
I'm pretty sure they ALL have click tracks in their in-ear monitors

Yeah it would surprise me greatly if this were not the case.

Offline bosk1

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Re: The Astonishing live - How do they play in sync with the "tapes"?
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2016, 09:39:12 AM »
Umm, sorry for my bad english, I am from Indonesia, hehehe

That's okay.  That makes me appreciate even more all the effort it must have taken to post such a long, detailed post.  Thanks for sharing that!  :tup

And thanks for posting the really cool videos.  You guys are really good.  And your dedication to learning to play in sync with a click on such complex music so that you can pipe in the keyboard sounds and keep the band all together is really amazing.  Nice job.
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