The Official Yes Thread

[KevShmev]

Howe's screechy guitar playing in the first few minutes of "The Ancient" makes me want to run head first into a wall.  It is a shame, too, as the drumming in that section is killer, and the last few minutes of that song are tremendous, but it is tough to make it through that guitar playing to get that far sometimes. 

I also find "The Remembering" to meander waaaaay too much.  It could have been a great 10-12 minute song, but they dragged it out for way too long, especially the first half of the song. 

The other two songs are just fine, but the middle songs not being up to par prevents Tales from being truly great.  It is still quite good, and is quite a journey when listened to from start to finish, but as a whole, it simply cannot compare to the three records that preceded it.

[Quadrochosis]

Z is correct, except on Revealing. Ritual is the best them. To get into Tales, take each separate. Then when you know each song enough, try out the entire thing and have your life changed.

Ritual is great too, but the opening chant to the album is probably the greatest thing I have ever heard in music.



Ever.










EVER

And Jon Anderson did the chant at his solo show. 

Fail, the album actually opens with a few minutes of chords. The chant opening was only on the original vinyl because they couldn't fit the first few minutes on one side.

[Orbert]

That's one way to look at it.  Another is that the original LP version is all there was for over 30 years and thus has a pretty fair claim to being called the "real" version.  The first couple of CD pressings used that version as well.  The extended intro is definitely cool, but it only appears on the most recent CD remasters, so it's not exactly a fail if someone isn't familiar with it.

[Quadrochosis]

That's one way to look at it.  Another is that the original LP version is all there was for over 30 years and thus has a pretty fair claim to being called the "real" version.  The first couple of CD pressings used that version as well.  The extended intro is definitely cool, but it only appears on the most recent CD remasters, so it's not exactly a fail if someone isn't familiar with it.

I know, I was just bustin' his balls.

[ZBomber]

Wait, theres a version where it DOESN'T open with chords? 

The one I have has a few minutes of guitar and keys before it starts with the chant... wasn't aware there was a version that starts with the chant right away.

[Quadrochosis]

Wait, theres a version where it DOESN'T open with chords? 

The one I have has a few minutes of guitar and keys before it starts with the chant... wasn't aware there was a version that starts with the chant right away.

Yea the original vinyl couldn't fit a 22 minute song so they dropped it and the album goes right into the chanting.

[The Letter M]

Wait, theres a version where it DOESN'T open with chords? 

The one I have has a few minutes of guitar and keys before it starts with the chant... wasn't aware there was a version that starts with the chant right away.

According to the album's Wikipedia page, the 2003 Remaster CD " restored a two-minute ambient section at the beginning of the album's first song. This section was deleted at the last minute before the album was originally pressed."

-Marc.

[ZBomber]

Interesting... I assume they had it on the tape deck then?

Still don't have Tales on vinyl Never see it in the store

[Quadrochosis]

Interesting... I assume they had it on the tape deck then?

Still don't have Tales on vinyl Never see it in the store

I have the original French pressing that I got on my vacation to Paris.. Picked it up for 25 Euros and have it in a case on the wall in my room . The other wall has the Asia debut.

Basically I'm the biggest prog nerd ever because I have those hanging on my walls.

[ZBomber]

 

I've got The Yes Album, Fragile, CTTE, Going For The One, Drama, and Big Generator on vinyl... plus the first two Asia albums.

BUT I NEED TALES AND RELAYER AHHHH

[Quadrochosis]

Awesome, I'd love to listen to those albums on vinyl.

[Orbert]

The one I have has a few minutes of guitar and keys before it starts with the chant... wasn't aware there was a version that starts with the chant right away.

According to the album's Wikipedia page, the 2003 Remaster CD " restored a two-minute ambient section at the beginning of the album's first song. This section was deleted at the last minute before the album was originally pressed."

Kids these days.

Vinyl LPs were themselves something of an art form.  You could squeeze more music onto a side by cutting the grooves closer together, but the grooves themselves would not be as deep and musical fidelity could be lost.  The average LP side was usually around 20-25 minutes; anything higher than that was usually avoided, but it wasn't a hard physical limitation.  In the hands of a skilled cutter, loss could be minimized or even eliminated.  Side Two of Todd Rundgren's Initiation is a 36-minute epic ("A Treatise on Cosmic Fire") and it sounds amazing.  A lot of that piece is rather sparse, and much of it is quite dense, so maybe Todd actually varied the angle; I don't know.  That seems like an insane thing to do, but it's Todd Rundgren we're talking about, I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, before the remasters, the only time the ambient intro was heard was during the original tour, when they played Tales from Topographics Oceans in its entirety, including the ambient intro.  As I said upthread, all LP pressings and the original CD pressings used the version that starts immediately with the chant.

On the Yesfans site, folks talk about how the chant starting immediately is more analogous to the big bang ("dawn of light") when a moment before there was nothing, whereas the extended intro gives more the impression of earth and life evolving and at some point there is a creature with actual consciousness.  Yesfans tend to get hung up on stuff like that.  I just think it's cool that we finally get to hear the intro after all these years, but to me the "real" version will always be the original, the only one there was for 30 years.

[The Letter M]

The one I have has a few minutes of guitar and keys before it starts with the chant... wasn't aware there was a version that starts with the chant right away.

According to the album's Wikipedia page, the 2003 Remaster CD " restored a two-minute ambient section at the beginning of the album's first song. This section was deleted at the last minute before the album was originally pressed."

Kids these days.

Vinyl LPs were themselves something of an art form.  You could squeeze more music onto a side by cutting the grooves closer together, but the grooves themselves would not be as deep and musical fidelity could be lost.  The average LP side was usually around 20-25 minutes; anything higher than that was usually avoided, but it wasn't a hard physical limitation.  In the hands of a skilled cutter, loss could be minimized or even eliminated.  Side Two of Todd Rundgren's Initiation is a 36-minute epic ("A Treatise on Cosmic Fire") and it sounds amazing.  A lot of that piece is rather sparse, and much of it is quite dense, so maybe Todd actually varied the angle; I don't know.  That seems like an insane thing to do, but it's Todd Rundgren we're talking about, I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, before the remasters, the only time the ambient intro was heard was during the original tour, when they played Tales from Topographics Oceans in its entirety, including the ambient intro.  As I said upthread, all LP pressings and the original CD pressings used the version that starts immediately with the chant.

On the Yesfans site, folks talk about how the chant starting immediately is more analogous to the big bang ("dawn of light") when a moment before there was nothing, whereas the extended intro gives more the impression of earth and life evolving and at some point there is a creature with actual consciousness.  Yesfans tend to get hung up on stuff like that.  I just think it's cool that we finally get to hear the intro after all these years, but to me the "real" version will always be the original, the only one there was for 30 years.

  Yeah, kids...haha!

I like the analogy you presented between not having the ambient intro and having it. It's very fitting to the music itself.

And I was reading up on LP length per side and found that there were some LPs that tried to fit up to 39-40 minutes of music on ONE side alone, which surprised me, making a single LP nearly as long as modern day CDs! Not many artists did this, however, because as you said, fidelity would be lost and the music would suffer to some degree, especially if played with a dull needle could damage the vinyl itself.

I don't get the argument that "it wouldn't fit on a side of the LP". It's only 2 minutes and even then, the Remaster's length is only 22:20 (or something close to that), and plenty of LPs at that time had sides longer than that, like Genesis' Foxtrot.

Maybe Yes felt they could get better sound out of the LP by not pressing that 2-minute intro and giving the vinyl a bit more space for the piece?

-Marc.

[ZBomber]

I don't get the argument that "it wouldn't fit on a side of the LP". It's only 2 minutes and even then, the Remaster's length is only 22:20 (or something close to that), and plenty of LPs at that time had sides longer than that, like Genesis' Foxtrot.

This. I've seen this argument used with so many things (like leaving Silver Springs off Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours"), but it has never made sense to me, because, as you said Orbert, vinyls can hold much more than 20 minutes. Yes, around 24 minutes or so, the quality isl likely to start going downhill, but in this case (and a few others) there wouldn't be any (significant) loss between 20 and 22 minutes.... just doesn't make sense.

[Seventh Son]

I don't get the argument that "it wouldn't fit on a side of the LP". It's only 2 minutes and even then, the Remaster's length is only 22:20 (or something close to that), and plenty of LPs at that time had sides longer than that, like Genesis' Foxtrot.

This. I've seen this argument used with so many things (like leaving Silver Springs off Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours"), but it has never made sense to me, because, as you said Orbert, vinyls can hold much more than 20 minutes. Yes, around 24 minutes or so, the quality isl likely to start going downhill, but in this case (and a few others) there wouldn't be any (significant) loss between 20 and 22 minutes.... just doesn't make sense.

Record label interference I would presume.

[Quadrochosis]

Maybe they were just so high they accidently deleted it.

[ZBomber]

Maybe they were just so high they accidently deleted it.

  Seems like the most logical answer to me. 

[King Postwhore]

I'll guess that some cd's are make without using the original masters.  This happened a ton in the 80's when cd's first came out.  Here is a great example. Rush Signals, the gold disk is missing a line in The Weapon.  They said that it wasn't on the original master but it was leaked that they didn't Get the original master.  Mobile Fidelity got screwed and so did we.  I bought it for $25 dollars and the 20 bit remaster that I got for $6.99 is way better.

[ytserush]

I'll guess that some cd's are make without using the original masters.  This happened a ton in the 80's when cd's first came out.  Here is a great example. Rush Signals, the gold disk is missing a line in The Weapon.  They said that it wasn't on the original master but it was leaked that they didn't Get the original master.  Mobile Fidelity got screwed and so did we.  I bought it for $25 dollars and the 20 bit remaster that I got for $6.99 is way better.

Where did you hear this? Is there somewhere that references that anywhere? (I'm not calling you out on anything, I would just like to learn the truth). The story I heard on the National Midnight Star at the time it came out was that the lyric was added later.

 I know the original masters were found to be in pretty bad shape about 5 years ago when they were working on Permanent Waves, but  I thought the MFSL Signals was the last time any of the original masters from the Mercury-Polygram years was used. Supposedly Geddy was overseeing the work on 1997 remasters which was probably the first time the original masters were used for CD (if they were still in good shape back then).

For the record, I would take the MFSL version of Signals over any CD version every day of the week and twice on Sunday. To my ears it sounds a lot warmer and clearer (I admit the remasters sounds louder.)

[Orbert]

Noob question: MFSL?

By the way, I have Signals on vinyl, and it owns.  You talk about warm sound.   

[ZBomber]

Noob question: MFSL?

By the way, I have Signals on vinyl, and it owns.  You talk about warm sound.   

Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab. They do some pretty awesome remasters.
https://www.mofi.com/store/pc/home.asp

[Orbert]

Ah, I've heard of them, and heard good things about them.  The acronym just wasn't clicking.

[Quadrochosis]

Just got home from the Asia show. Holy fuck was it amazing! The biggest surprise was how amazing John Wetton's voice still is. It sounds like he hasn't aged a day since the s/t came out. CP's solo was fucking mindblowing as well, and Downes was all over the keys. And there needs nothing be said about SH.. because well, he is still the master.

10/10 show.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Would like Yes a bit more but I can't stand Anderson's voice. I still love them despite that. Dream Theater will always be my favourite band though.

[ZBomber]

Just got home from the Asia show. Holy fuck was it amazing! The biggest surprise was how amazing John Wetton's voice still is. It sounds like he hasn't aged a day since the s/t came out. CP's solo was fucking mindblowing as well, and Downes was all over the keys. And there needs nothing be said about SH.. because well, he is still the master.

10/10 show.

Nice!  Review?

[ytserush]

Noob question: MFSL?

By the way, I have Signals on vinyl, and it owns.  You talk about warm sound.   

I love musical warmth. It's awesome.

I can never seem to figure out which I like better, the MFSL or the vinyl copy.


I seriously thought about going to see Asia for my first time ever yet again this year.  Just couldn't pull the trigger. And then Carl Palmer announced (Actually he hasn't yet but 7 dates have already been announced) he was touring this fall instead, so that was a no brainer for me. I'm hoping guitarist Paul Bielatowicz (of Neal Morse's Euro touring band) will be along too.

How much of the new album did Asia play?

[Quadrochosis]

Just got home from the Asia show. Holy fuck was it amazing! The biggest surprise was how amazing John Wetton's voice still is. It sounds like he hasn't aged a day since the s/t came out. CP's solo was fucking mindblowing as well, and Downes was all over the keys. And there needs nothing be said about SH.. because well, he is still the master.

10/10 show.

Nice!  Review?

Maybe I will write a longer one up within the next few days, not tonight though.

[ZBomber]

I can't believe there was a time when I didn't like "Turn of the Century". When I first got the album, I used to just listen to the title track, and then I would skip over the rest.

Turn of the Century has to be one of my favorite Yes songs now. And it sounds even better on vinyl. 

[Orbert]

Great song, one of my faves, too.  I love Howe's acoustic rubato intro, then Anderson's voice comes drifting in and you can't even tell what time signature they're in, if they're even following one.  The story itself is age-old, but when I first heard the song in like 7th grade, it was new to me, so it has always worked.  The break is amazing, all the changes, then as the statue comes to life, Howe totally takes off.  And then it ends somewhat like how it begins.

Hitting the road again today for more jamming in Michigan.  I think I'll listed to Going for the One and Tales from Topographic Oceans all the way through.  Thanks for the suggestion!

[ytserush]

Am I in the Twilight Zone?

I was flipping channels to get to Music Choice and on the way saw a bunch of good-looking naked women dancing to "Heart of The Sunrise."

Did that really happen? Some movie called Buffalo '66.

Am I dreaming?

Karma?

Is the rest of the movie good?

[Orbert]

Vincent Gallo (writer/director/star of Buffalo '66) is a prog fan, and specifically a Yes fan.  He says Chris Squire's bass work with Yes is what inspired him to learn to play, so having "Heart of the Sunrise" play during the strip club scene was definitely a deliberate choice.

The movie is pretty good.  I got a little excited when I saw Cristina Ricci and Rosanna Arquette in the credits, and "nudity" in the description, but the only nudity is in the strip club.  Still a pretty good movie, though.

[The Letter M]

So I'm sitting here listening to the Keystudio compilation of the band's 96/97 studio tracks previously released on Keys To Ascension (1 and 2), and oddly enough, I am reminded at how much I absolutely LOVE this material. I, along with likely thousands upon thousands of other Yesfans, wish that they had released the songs as a single 75 minute album by itself, and released the live show as a 2-CD show by itself.

With the recent re-release of the KTA material in a 5-disc box set, they really missed the opportunity to do that with the material. Unfortunately, it's just a repackaging of the two original KTA 2-CD sets plus the more recently released DVD. I would be more inclined to buy this box set had they re-ordered the live tracks into their proper live set list order, and put them on 2 CDs by themselves. Also, a re-release of the Keystudio album itself would've been fantastic for most fans who didn't grab it over 4 years ago because it nabs around $40-50 on secondary markets these days (I, for one, am VERY glad I bought it new on Amazon back on 06 for a scant $8 or so).

Also, any re-release of this album would be welcome. I don't collect vinyl, but it would definitely work well for a 2-LP set since two of the songs are already side-length. The track list would have to be re-worked though...
     Side 1 - 18:38
"Mind Drive"    (18:38)
     Side 2 - 19:00
"Footprints" (9:09)
"Be The One" (9:51)
     Side 3 - 19:15
"That, That Is" (19:15)
     Side 4 - 17:24
"Bring Me To The Power" (7:25)
"Children Of Light" (6:34)
"Sign Language" (3:25)

Well... something like that. It opens with "Mind Drive", followed by "Foot Prints" just like the second disc of KTA2, but then as on Keystudio, "Be The One" follows "Foot Prints". After "Be The One" is "That, That Is", like they were at the end of KTA1's second disc. Then the final three tracks are as they were at the end of KTA2. I think "Sign Language" works well as a somber, soft ending to the "album".

I think this material might do better with a remaster/rerelease of some sort. It definitely deserves more attention than it got, especially with the short-produced compilation of the tracks with a rather...ahem... lackluster name.

Anyways, just wanted to post my praise for these tracks... amazing works!

-Marc.

[Seventh Son]

That reminds me, I still need to listen to Keystudio!

[Orbert]

I like the Keys studio material.  Some say it's too derivative of their 70's material, tries to hard to sound like it, or some shit, but most Yesfans love the fact that the classic lineup was back.  And realistically, I think the outcry would've been far worse if the Close to the Edge lineup had gotten back together and it sounded like "Owner of a Lonely Heart".

[King Postwhore]

In may of 2011, John Anderson will be playing a few towns away from me in a little cozy 200 cap. hall.  I love going to this place and I think my cousin is up for it.

Here is a link to the place.  Click on the Londonderry section.


https://www.tupelohall.com/