The Official Yes Thread

[Orbert]

What's next?  "Jeez, I hope Paul and Ringo get to play together again some day!"

Paul and Ringo have done stuff together musically since George's passing.  So... that means Jon and Steve could/should?  I guess I'm not sure what the analogy means.

[Stadler]

Steve Howe pisses on anyone who was holding out hope that Jon Anderson might ever play with Yes again:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/steve-howe-yes-i-love-jon-anderson

I honestly mean this in the nicest way possible, but if anyone is still holding out hope that Jon Anderson, who is almost 80, might play with Yes again, it might be time to reconsider your musical priorities.

What's next?  "Jeez, I hope Paul and Ringo get to play together again some day!"

While I wouldn't see Anderson ever going back to working with Steve Howe again (or even rejoining Yes) He's still writing music and touring at that age and so are Paul and Ringo. They just aren't reuniting. But I guess that's more of a comment about age than anything else.

To each their own, but I never quite understood "retiring" from music.  Maybe from touring, or those particular aspects that you don't like, but even Billy Joel said "I didn't stop WRITING, I just stopped the process of making ALBUMS."  I get the touring part.  But for a guy like Noel Gallagher that still plays guitar every day even if just for 15 minutes, that's like breathing. 

[ytserush]

What's next?  "Jeez, I hope Paul and Ringo get to play together again some day!"

Paul and Ringo have done stuff together musically since George's passing.  So... that means Jon and Steve could/should?  I guess I'm not sure what the analogy means.

That's kind of what I meant, but you wrote it better. Reuniting seems to carry huge connotations. Playing together is more low key.

[Orbert]

Ah, I think I get it.  Steve could play guitar on one of Jon's solo albums, just a song or two, something like that.  It doesn't have to be a full-on reunion.  But it wouldn't surprise me if those two are already sugar-coating things as much as they can, and they basically can't stand each other right now.

[ytserush]

Ah, I think I get it.  Steve could play guitar on one of Jon's solo albums, just a song or two, something like that.  It doesn't have to be a full-on reunion.  But it wouldn't surprise me if those two are already sugar-coating things as much as they can, and they basically can't stand each other right now.

I think so too. I'm not sure I can ever picture them  being in the same room anymore. I can't recall the hall of fame gig very well, but I'd be surprised if Steve Howe even acknowledged Jon was there. I should rewatch that. It's been a few years.

When was the last time you could apply the word "friendly" to Jon and Steve?

[Lupton]

One thing I remember is when Steve gave his speech Jon was in the background behind him with the other Yesmen sort doing the "blah blah blah" things with his hands and looking like he was sort of mocking Steve. Like he could barely stand listening to him or something. I don't think there's any love lost between those two.

[King Postwhore]

The wife & I with the great Patrick Moraz!

[Metro]

Very cool!

[ytserush]

The wife & I with the great Patrick Moraz!

Looking good. Solo gig? Wait. Isn't Progstock this weekend? He'd have been one guy I wanted to see.

[Cocopjojo]

I've not listened to much King Crimson before, and so I didn't know until today that Jon Anderson sang on their 1970 album, Lizard. Does anyone know what the story is behind how/why this happened?

[Metro]

Here you go

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/yes_frontman_shares_opinion_on_king_crimson_recalls_how_robert_fripp_treated_him_during_collaboration.html

[Cocopjojo]

Here you go

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/yes_frontman_shares_opinion_on_king_crimson_recalls_how_robert_fripp_treated_him_during_collaboration.html

I was hoping some article like this existed. Thanks!

[Orbert]

Hmm, more than I knew previously, but not a lot of info there.  "How Robert Fripp treated him" isn't really addressed.  I guess I was expecting a direct comment on how he was great to work with, or an asshole, or something.  "Bob comes over, he looks over his glasses, 'Well, Jon, could you sing just like the demo?'"  That was it.

[Metro]

Considering how many people have come and gone from King Crimson (especially in those early days), I think it's a given that Fripp is and was hard to work with. 

Here's another article on Lizard. https://ultimateclassicrock.com/king-crimson-lizard/

[Orbert]

My impression is that in the early days, King Crimson was more of a collective, a more democratic band in terms of roles within the band.  It was an evolution of Giles-Fripp and some other earlier collaborations.  But Fripp's personality, musicianship, and focus are naturally dominant and he essentially took things over because someone has to provide direction, and the others deferred to him.  How amicable any of this was, I have no idea.  King Crimson today is obviously whatever and whenever Fripp says it is, but it wasn't always "his" band.  There's a story how at one point, the band was on the verge of breaking up, and Fripp was so dismayed by that that he said he'd quit the band if the band would continue without him.  Totally selfless, or a calculated move?  I have no idea.

[Stadler]

My impression is that in the early days, King Crimson was more of a collective, a more democratic band in terms of roles within the band.  It was an evolution of Giles-Fripp and some other earlier collaborations.  But Fripp's personality, musicianship, and focus are naturally dominant and he essentially took things over because someone has to provide direction, and the others deferred to him.  How amicable any of this was, I have no idea.  King Crimson today is obviously whatever and whenever Fripp says it is, but it wasn't always "his" band.  There's a story how at one point, the band was on the verge of breaking up, and Fripp was so dismayed by that that he said he'd quit the band if the band would continue without him.  Totally selfless, or a calculated move?  I have no idea.

But that's a big part of it. Greg Lake LEFT.  He went to form ELP.  So after a point, it was only Fripp left; not hard to see that it would be considered "his band". 

Hey, on that Anderson interview; what's the deal with the ABWH question?  So he asked Howe (and the others) what they would play, went to a studio with OTHER musicians who played shit based on what the guys said, then took the songs back to the group and they played what was on the demo?   Or did the "other" musicians play on the "better recordings"? 

[Orbert]

Jon Anderson's version of events never seems to reconcile with the general consensus of anyone or everyone else, and add a few decades of time in between then and now, and he basically has no idea what he's talking about.  Okay, he knows what he's talking about, but it usually has nothing to do with reality.

The Union album is generally considered a Frankenstein creation of Jon Anderson and Jonathan Elias.  As has been pointed out, it was mostly made up of tracks that ABWH were working on for a possible second album, and some songs by the Rabin-led 90125 lineup.  One story I read said that Jon had asked Trevor for a song, thinking that they needed something more accessible (more "pop") for the new ABWH album and Rabin sent him three, expecting Anderson to pick one.  Anderson said Wow thanks and took all three.  Eventually the 90125 lineup, and a new solo acoustic piece by Steve Howe, rounded out the album and they repackaged it as a new Yes album.

But that was all still basic tracks, and when it was time for edits and overdubs and other fine-tuning, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe were already done.  They weren't that invested in ABWH if it was just going to be another version of Yes, and now that it was offically Yes, they found more interesting things to do.  So Anderson and Elias hired a boatload of session guys to do the overdubs.  Wakeman always calls this one "Onion".  My first thought was because of all the layers (like ogres have layers) but it's because it always makes him cry.  He says he listened to the album once, couldn't even hear anything that he'd actually played, and through the CD out the car window.  Howe has made similar statements, and I don't think Bruford cares enough to even comment.  It was just a paycheck for him.

[Stadler]

I knew a lot of that, but was the ABWH album like that too?   

[romdrums]

I knew a lot of that, but was the ABWH album like that too?

I think Steve Howe was the only one who didn't go to Monserrat to record the album, preferring to record his parts later on in England. But, Rick, Jon and Bill were all down there with the guys that were in the backing band for the tour. I think the songs were more or less written ahead of time, but I think Bill was at least involved in the demoing process.

[Orbert]

There are conflicting stories surrounding the (first) ABWH album as well.  Bill Bruford said he was asked by Jon to play on a new album he was working on, with a new band.  Jon did not mention that the "new band" happened to include Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman, but even after finding that out, Bruford said that there was still hope.  There was a window open for about ten minutes which slammed shut and it just became another version of Yes.  Wakeman is always down for whatever Anderson wants to do, and I don't remember Howe's position, but obviously he was on board.  The ABWH album was mostly performed by ABWH, with Tony Levin on bass, although there are credits for some additional keyboard and guitar work.  It's unclear how much they did, but I don't remember hearing Howe or Wakeman complaining about their tracks being replaced or overdubbed on ABWH, certainly not the extent they were on Union.

[romdrums]

I think those guys provided the bed tracks that Wakeman and Howe came in and added to, with solos and leads and stuff.

[Kwyjibo]

Some of the rhythm guitars don't really sound like Howe, it could still be him, but I doubt it. The leads are probably done all by Howe.

[HOF]

My impression is that in the early days, King Crimson was more of a collective, a more democratic band in terms of roles within the band.  It was an evolution of Giles-Fripp and some other earlier collaborations.  But Fripp's personality, musicianship, and focus are naturally dominant and he essentially took things over because someone has to provide direction, and the others deferred to him.  How amicable any of this was, I have no idea.  King Crimson today is obviously whatever and whenever Fripp says it is, but it wasn't always "his" band.  There's a story how at one point, the band was on the verge of breaking up, and Fripp was so dismayed by that that he said he'd quit the band if the band would continue without him.  Totally selfless, or a calculated move?  I have no idea.

I read somewhere that at one point Fripp was considering leaving and would have recommended Steve Hackett as his replacement if the others had carried on. Guessing that was the same period you’re referring to but not sure.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Drums:  Bill Bruford vs Mike Portnoy

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NOOOOOO. JUST NO. 
Have ever actually HEARD Bill Bruford play drums?

(edit)

Sorry, I know I'm overreacting, so I'll give a better reason. Listen to Close to the Edge. From a drumming stand point, it is one of the most complex and beautifully intricate works in drumming, hands down. Bill keeps the rhythm completely smooth while still throwing in complex polyrhythms and maintaining a really unique style of playing while doing so. The parts he wrote for that album are so intense that you'll find something new that he's doing each time you listen to the album. Mike is great, don't get me wrong. But even he would openly agree to Bill being the better of them, I'm sure. Bill's later work and even his jazz albums contain some of the most hardcore drumming I've ever heard.

i don't think this is an overreaction. bruford is one of the best ever. his KC work is unreal

[khalpin]

Chris Squire(1993): Just about everyone in the world played on the ABWH tracks [on Union].  Half the time it wasn't Rick when it was supposed to be Rick.  The same thing happened with Steve: it was other people.  Jimmy [Haun, guitarist for the Chris Squire Expirement] played a lot of guitar Steve thought was him!  He didn't realize until about halfway through the European leg of the tour that it was somebody else playing on the album.  He hadn't even listened to it.  I told him he might want to check it out and he got very annoyed.  I don't quite know how that happened - whether Jon was in control of it with the producer. I don't know. It's definitely a very strange album.  I think it's important to note that on the album there was no point where the eight of us were playing together on any one song.  It was really like Jon was going back and forth between the ABWH band and us like a loose cannon.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i really like Union, i know it is one of their most hated ones but it's really not that bad

[hefdaddy42]

i really like Union, i know it is one of their most hated ones but it's really not that bad

I mean, I'm glad you like it, and you shouldn't stop.

But it's pretty bad.

[Orbert]

I actually liked it well enough until I started reading the credits.  The songs aren't bad, the playing is fine, the production is pretty good.  It just has huge amounts of music that isn't actually played by Yes.  It's a studio concoction cooked up by Jon Anderson and Jonathan Elias.  Elias says that he was just doing was Jon A said to do, which was to finish the album after Wakeman and Howe buggered off and wouldn't come back for overdubs.  Anderson, typically, has a different take.

I think those guys provided the bed tracks that Wakeman and Howe came in and added to, with solos and leads and stuff.

Where did you read that?  That's basically the opposite of every other account I've read.  Except for Anderson, who says he doesn't know.

[romdrums]

I actually liked it well enough until I started reading the credits.  The songs aren't bad, the playing is fine, the production is pretty good.  It just has huge amounts of music that isn't actually played by Yes.  It's a studio concoction cooked up by Jon Anderson and Jonathan Elias.  Elias says that he was just doing was Jon A said to do, which was to finish the album after Wakeman and Howe buggered off and wouldn't come back for overdubs.  Anderson, typically, has a different take.

I think those guys provided the bed tracks that Wakeman and Howe came in and added to, with solos and leads and stuff.

I was referring to the sessions for the first ABWH album, not Union.

Where did you read that?  That's basically the opposite of every other account I've read.  Except for Anderson, who says he doesn't know.

[Orbert]

Interesting.  That's still contrary to what I've read, though.  Supposedly it was a new project Jon Anderson project and he got Wakeman, Bruford, and Howe to join him.  I was surprised that there were any others on the album except for Levin.

[KevShmev]

Trevor Rabin talked about Union a little in one of his recent interviews.  I cannot recall the exact way he put it, but he said someone called him and asked if he had any songs that could be turned into Yes songs for the project, and he offered up Lift Me Up right away and then eventually Miracle of Life and Saving My Heart as well.  I always think Miracle of Life is one of those songs that needed a bit more work (the back half goes off the rails a tad, but the first half of so is pretty great), but is still a good tune.  Lift Me Up is probably the best song on the record, although I do like Shock to the System a lot as well. 

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Trevor Rabin should do a collab with Taylor Swift

[ytserush]

I like Union but then I like every album up to about Magnification except for Open Your Eyes. I got off the Yes train in 2003 which I think is before Anderson left.

[hefdaddy42]

Trevor Rabin should do a collab with Taylor Swift

the hell

[Stadler]

Trevor Rabin should do a collab with Taylor Swift

I'd pay for that.