Author Topic: The Official Yes Thread  (Read 265197 times)

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Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3290 on: June 13, 2023, 03:30:24 PM »
They seem like a guitar based band with keyboards at this point instead of the other way around, which is how I generally view Yes.

Interesting.  What drew me to them, and similar bands of this era, was that the keyboards and guitars seemed on more-or-less equal footing.  In most rock bands, it's all about the guitars, with keyboards in a supporting role.  Yes hasn't had a lot of guitarists over the years, but all three (Banks, Howe, Rabin) I think bring enough to the table to not be considered subservient to the keyboards, even when Wakeman was in the band.


Interesting, this is also the one sentence I just HAVE to reply to (like Orbert): I always thought one of the most unique things about Yes (in their prime) was that every instrument had equal value. They are not a keyboard-oriented band (like Genesis 78-82 or ELP) or a guitar oriented band (like most hard rock bands) or a band backing a singer. Every instrument is equally present, to the point that during large parts of songs, basically ALL musicians are soloing at the same time :lol


Well, understand the only Yes I know is whatever was on the radio. Roundabout, All Good People, that sort of thing. I just found the guitar parts heavier on the first album.  Heavier than I was expecting, anyway.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3291 on: June 13, 2023, 05:20:42 PM »
Peter Banks was a heavier player.  More driven, more rocking.  And Tony Kaye did lean on the Hammond Organ a lot; it was his preferred instrument.  So overall the early albums were a bit heavier.

With the advent of Howe and Wakeman, the dynamic shifted.  Wakeman was definitely the flashier keyboardist, with those insanely fast fingers, academy trained mastery of both theory and tech, and years of working as a studio musician to learn how to best add color to pretty much anything.  Plus he was all about synthesizers and Mellotrons and anything else with keys.  Howe was pretty flashy himself, but not as heavy as Banks and maybe didn't stand out as much.  Howe is all over the albums he does play on, but rarely playing chords, let alone power chords.  He's playing countermelodies all the time.  Bill Bruford once said that it seemed like Wakeman and Howe were having a contest to see who could play the most notes per minute.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3292 on: June 13, 2023, 05:35:35 PM »
I've long had a theory that the bigger prog bands were all amalgamations of various things; Crimson was a JAZZ-based prog band, Genesis was a CLASSICAL-based prog band as was ELP...   Yes was a ROCK-based prog band. They weren't "prog-metal" like DT, but they were the band that could play the rock hits of the day if they had to.  Their encores would be "Gimme Some Lovin'", the Beatles "I'm Down", things like that.  Chris Squire's post-Yes (before Rabin) gig was XYZ with Alan White, Jimmy Page, and (for about four seconds) Robert Plant. 

Jon is a far better ROCK singer than some of his material let's on.  I'm excited to hear what TAC thinks of "Sweet Dreams", "The Prophet", "Starship Trooper", "South Side of the Sky"...  and that's with Bruford; it got more of a rock groove with Alan White.

The interesting thing about this is Chris Squire once said he didn't really like rock music.  He came from a gospel background.  Bill Bruford characterized himself as "a jazz character," and said he "perceive[ed] of [him]self" as a jazz drummer.  He also said the selling point when he was recruited into the band was that he would play jazz drums while the rest of the guys played rock and sang like a gospel choir.  The original lineup was dominated by rock players (Banks and Kaye, along with Anderson) with classical leanings.  When Howe replaced Banks, it amped up the jazz and classical components and also added a country element.  When Wakeman replaced Kaye, it was a real melting pot of jazz, classical, rock, country and gospel.  That's one reason why the two albums recorded by that lineup are regarded as two of the greatest prog rock albums ever.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3293 on: June 13, 2023, 05:41:24 PM »
Peter Banks was a heavier player.  More driven, more rocking.  And Tony Kaye did lean on the Hammond Organ a lot; it was his preferred instrument.  So overall the early albums were a bit heavier.

With the advent of Howe and Wakeman, the dynamic shifted.  Wakeman was definitely the flashier keyboardist, with those insanely fast fingers, academy trained mastery of both theory and tech, and years of working as a studio musician to learn how to best add color to pretty much anything.  Plus he was all about synthesizers and Mellotrons and anything else with keys.  Howe was pretty flashy himself, but not as heavy as Banks and maybe didn't stand out as much.  Howe is all over the albums he does play on, but rarely playing chords, let alone power chords.  He's playing countermelodies all the time.  Bill Bruford once said that it seemed like Wakeman and Howe were having a contest to see who could play the most notes per minute.

Thanks O! I do like the Hammond Organ in any band that uses it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3294 on: June 13, 2023, 05:41:49 PM »
Time And A Word


So I was reading the Wiki article bout how Peter Banks wasn't happy with them using an orchestra. Seems he was out of the band after it was recorded.

Time to dive in!


No Opportunity Necessary- Not an orchestra fan, but this intro is really cool. Has a whirling wind feel. And wow, this song is like one long bass solo. Amazing. Great sound on the bass too. Jon's voice is still fine here. Again, the orchestra shows up again, but I have to say that their parts are awesome in this song. I like this song!
Then-Starts off kind of mundane, but this mid section is really cool. Sounds a little like Alice Cooper, but fancier, and more keyboards. I would've been fine with a hard stop at the end of the instrumental section. I could've lived without the soft final part.
Everydays-I like the classic keyboard sounds in the beginning. Has a cool sleeking around feel. This has a great intense instrumental interlude in the middle. The song winds down pretty good, and wow, what an ending.
Sweet Dreams-Not much to say about this. The layered vocals a forshadowing to what I've heard from Yes?
The Prophet-Wow, once this song gets going the bass takes over. Not a fan of the orchestra in this song. The last minute or so is pretty decent, but I can't say I'm crazy about this.
Clear Days-Err...ok.
Astral Traveller-The vocal effects are a bit distracting. Not sure if the original was like this or it's the remaster. Some definite noodling going on here. Switches over to a cool part at 2:55. Bill Bruford has some gentle chops here. Guitar solo!!!! Awesome! Not a bad song on the whole.
Time And A Word-Not something I'd be into.
Dear Father-This song needs Freddie Mercury. I mean, every song needs Freddie Mercury right? Seriously, I think this would've been a better Queen song. I like the orchestra section in the back half. But I don't mind it at all.



So a few thoughts.
* First, Jon is still digestible for the most part. He is a tough go for me, so as long as I can deal with him, the better I'll be.

*A number of songs have a similar structure where they have a beginning and an end that's the same, and a cool instrumental part in the middle. Not an uncommon structure by any stretch, but I find that the part after the break is kind of a letdown.

*I am not a fan of orchestral parts, but I really like most of what they're doing here. Maybe it's an old school sound, perhaps the way it was produced, but I have to say, I understand peter banks' issues, but they really do work.

*Chris Squire is a BEAST!


How does everyone feel about the pre Steve Howe material? How are these first two albums thought of  in Yes' catalog? I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised how much of them I enjoyed.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3295 on: June 13, 2023, 09:30:45 PM »
I like the first two albums.  Sure, when Steve joined, they made a big jump up in both playing and songwriting, then another jump up when Wakeman joined on the very next album, so a lot of people tend to dismiss the pre-Howe material, but I think it's pretty strong overall.  They're better than the first two albums of 99% of any bands that have ever existed.

Online Lupton

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3296 on: June 13, 2023, 11:47:43 PM »
How does everyone feel about the pre Steve Howe material? How are these first two albums thought of  in Yes' catalog? I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised how much of them I enjoyed.

Huge fan of those first 2 records and find myself listening to them way more often than anything that was released after Drama (1980), but not as often as the albums leading up to Drama.

Offline Mladen

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3297 on: June 14, 2023, 01:04:28 AM »
I do not like the first two albums, but I don't think it's necessarily due to the absence of Steve Howe. I think they just needed some time to figure out how to write memorable songs. Not to mention that The Yes album in comparison to Time and a word is a huge step forward in terms of the progressive nature of the songs, it's all of a sudden much more adventurous and daring.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3298 on: June 14, 2023, 06:34:56 AM »
I dig those first two records for what they are.   There was a compilation from the mid-70's, "Yesterdays" that had a cool 10 minute version of Simon and Garfunkel's "America", and then I think six or seven songs from the first two records (six, plus one b-side, technically).   I really dug that record, and while I'm with TAC, some of the orchestra stuff is tough, I think those are good records.

I'm also more lenient to the other eras of Yes as well; the Trevor Horn era, and the Rabin era, so maybe that has something to do with it.  I don't consider the "The Yes Album" through "Tormato" to be sacred in any way.   

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3299 on: June 14, 2023, 09:55:21 AM »
How does everyone feel about the pre Steve Howe material? How are these first two albums thought of  in Yes' catalog? I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised how much of them I enjoyed.

From a macro perspective, the only songs from the debut that have been played since 1970 are Every Little thing (couple dozen dates in 2004) and Survival (couple dozen dates in 2017-18).  The Time and a Word material has seen a bit more daylight, but the reality is that the band largely ignored the pre-Howe material since Howe joined (and especially since Anderson left).  Personally, I own Time and a Word (because the title track was on Yesshows, I went back and bought the album), but I rarely listen to it.  I've never owned the debut (largely because I don't think much of TAAW).  Perhaps your reviews will prompt me to give them a fresh listen.


So I was reading the Wiki article bout how Peter Banks wasn't happy with them using an orchestra. Seems he was out of the band after it was recorded.

Yup.  Banks absolutely did not want to go the same direction as the other four.


There was a compilation from the mid-70's, "Yesterdays" that had a cool 10 minute version of Simon and Garfunkel's "America"

I actually prefer the edited version of America.  A little too much noodling with the 10-minute version.  Either way, though, it's a great cover, and I wonder if Paul Simon ever commented on Yes's cover.
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3300 on: June 16, 2023, 07:10:36 PM »
The Yes Album

Yours Is No Disgrace- Pretty decent tune. The bass is killing it. Wow. Bruford has a nice pitter patter drum style. Very precise and tight. This doesn't feel like 9 minutes. It's pretty easy on the ears. Could use a power chord or two.. Ok..there's some guitar for the last minute and a half..
The Clap-I mean, ok..sure.
Starship Trooper- Loving the drumming here in the first part. Jon's vocals ..I don't know. I don't love him, but he's not too distracting. The acoustic part brings me to those familiar Yes layered vocals. I actually like the last third of the song. Seems like one long outro, but to me it calms the song down a bit. I was thinking I'd have to listen to it again to get a grip on it, but it gets tied up very nicely.
I've Seen All Good People-Yay, a song I know. I'll be honest. I've always liked this song. There's something full about Jon's voice, especially in the beginning. Even on rock radio, the two parts, along with the transition still always seemed to work. Nice!
A Venture-This didn't do a lot for me, but I liked that piano/bass solo to close it out.
Perpetual Change- Listening to this, I feel like this would've been a great Queen song. This band has excellent control in some of the softer? moments including Jon's singing. It goes along, and I like that turn at 5:10. Even here, Bruford has a great touch, and never overplays it. Cozy Powell would've beaten the hell out of it. lol. Yeah, I don't mind this too much. It stays pretty interesting. I mean, there's nothing holyshit about it, but yeah, nice.


Pretty much enjoyed my listen to this. Jon didn't annoy me and really liking my introduction to Bill Bruford. Man, what a touch he has. The 4 longer tracks are all pretty good, and I'm obviously familiar with All Good People. I'd revisit the longer tracks again, simply to try and digest them a bit more. I am feeling a bit of blue balls when it comes to the guitar though.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online The Letter M

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3301 on: June 16, 2023, 07:17:06 PM »
The Yes Album

Yours Is No Disgrace- Pretty decent tune. The bass is killing it. Wow. Bruford has a nice pitter patter drum style. Very precise and tight. This doesn't feel like 9 minutes. It's pretty easy on the ears. Could use a power chord or two.. Ok..there's some guitar for the last minute and a half..
The Clap-I mean, ok..sure.
Starship Trooper- Loving the drumming here in the first part. Jon's vocals ..I don't know. I don't love him, but he's not too distracting. The acoustic part brings me to those familiar Yes layered vocals. I actually like the last third of the song. Seems like one long outro, but to me it calms the song down a bit. I was thinking I'd have to listen to it again to get a grip on it, but it gets tied up very nicely.
I've Seen All Good People-Yay, a song I know. I'll be honest. I've always liked this song. There's something full about Jon's voice, especially in the beginning. Even on rock radio, the two parts, along with the transition still always seemed to work. Nice!
A Venture-This didn't do a lot for me, but I liked that piano/bass solo to close it out.
Perpetual Change- Listening to this, I feel like this would've been a great Queen song. This band has excellent control in some of the softer? moments including Jon's singing. It goes along, and I like that turn at 5:10. Even here, Bruford has a great touch, and never overplays it. Cozy Powell would've beaten the hell out of it. lol. Yeah, I don't mind this too much. It stays pretty interesting. I mean, there's nothing holyshit about it, but yeah, nice.


Pretty much enjoyed my listen to this. Jon didn't annoy me and really liking my introduction to Bill Bruford. Man, what a touch he has. The 4 longer tracks are all pretty good, and I'm obviously familiar with All Good People. I'd revisit the longer tracks again, simply to try and digest them a bit more. I am feeling a bit of blue balls when it comes to the guitar though.

The live versions of the longer TYA songs on Yessongs are the definitive versions, IMO. Definitely give that live album a spin once you get past Close To The Edge.

-Marc.
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3302 on: June 16, 2023, 07:18:06 PM »
I will. Is Yessongs one concert? a collection of live stuff?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline jammindude

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3303 on: June 16, 2023, 08:00:48 PM »
I’m really happy you liked this one. I find it to be miles better than the overrated Fragile. This was the album that prompted me to check out the rest of Yes’ material.
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Online The Letter M

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3304 on: June 16, 2023, 08:51:52 PM »
I will. Is Yessongs one concert? a collection of live stuff?

As was more common back then, Yessongs takes performances over two tours, and thus features two lineups - one from the Fragile Tour with Bill on drums and then from the CTTE Tour with Alan White on drums.

Despite being a live compilation, the performances are pretty great (though the overall sound quality isn't too crisp or clear). It's the definitive early live Yes album IMO, and sits with the likes of Genesis' Seconds Out or ELP's Welcome Back My Friends in regards to great live albums from 70s prog bands.

-Marc. :hefdaddy
ATTENTION - HAKEN FANS! The HAKEN SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3305 on: June 17, 2023, 05:14:03 AM »
You had me up through Genesis.  ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3306 on: June 18, 2023, 12:27:28 AM »
The live versions of the longer TYA songs on Yessongs are the definitive versions, IMO. Definitely give that live album a spin once you get past Close To The Edge.

 Like a lot of bands of Yes's vintage, the live album was a great gateway to earlier material.  I don't know that I necessarily agree about Disgrace and Starship being definitive, but Perpetual Change on Yessongs is superb and, IMO, quite a bit better than the studio version.  Remind me...is the drum solo Bruford or White?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3307 on: June 18, 2023, 05:13:06 AM »
Eh, I don't agree with any of the live versions being definitive versions.  Some of them are really good, yes, but you just can't top the originals from the studio albums.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3308 on: June 18, 2023, 07:09:21 AM »
The drum solo on Yessongs is by Bruford.

Offline ytserush

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3309 on: June 18, 2023, 07:40:54 PM »
So I'm going to try and get myself through the first few Yes albums. I've never heard them. I did rent Close To the Edge from my library many years ago.

My hangups with Yes generally revolve around Jon Anderson's voice. And I've never thought they were heavy enough. Yeah, that's a me thing.

Spinning the first album tonight.


Beyond And Before- Feels longer than 4 minutes. Sounds like a first song on a band's first album. Kind of ordinary.
I See You- Wow, this is really cool. Great vibes. The mellow part is nice. Cool soloing. The middle part definitely ends heavy enough. Let's just say they should've just ended it right there.  :lol
Yesterday And Today-Er...next!
Looking Around-Great start on this one. Anderson's voice has a slight youthful gravelyness to it.  Chris Squire is absolutely killing it! I like this one!
Harold Land-This is a pretty cool song. I'm trying to place a comp to it, but I can't think of it. Again, I don't find Anderson all that annoying here. I like the outro. They just sound like a rock band here.
Every Little Thing-The beginning of this sounds like early Alice Cooper for sure. That's a nice long instrumental intro. Yeah, I like this one too. The guitar sound is heavier than I expected. I know this is Peter Banks and not Steve Howe, so that's most likely it.
Sweetness-Yeah, I don't think so.
Survival- I liked that first minute and a half intro. Not a fan of the quite parts with vocals. Can't say that I love this one either, but that's a neat little ending.


All in all, I'm pleasantly surprised at how much of this I actually liked. They seem like a guitar based band with keyboards at this point instead of the other way around, which is how I generally view Yes. I detected a very slight rawness in Jon's voice which makes it a bit more palatable to me.

Did I step into the Twilight Zone?

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3310 on: June 19, 2023, 05:33:50 AM »
I will. Is Yessongs one concert? a collection of live stuff?

As was more common back then, Yessongs takes performances over two tours, and thus features two lineups - one from the Fragile Tour with Bill on drums and then from the CTTE Tour with Alan White on drums.

Despite being a live compilation, the performances are pretty great (though the overall sound quality isn't too crisp or clear). It's the definitive early live Yes album IMO, and sits with the likes of Genesis' Seconds Out or ELP's Welcome Back My Friends in regards to great live albums from 70s prog bands.

-Marc. :hefdaddy

More specifically: Perpetual Change and Long Distance Runaround are from February 1972, with Bruford on drums.  He left the band after recording Close To The Edge, but about two weeks before the tour started, so they recruited Alan White to the band.  The rest of Yessongs comes from a run of shows in November of 1972 with White. Seven of those were released in their entirety on a box set - kind of like the UFO Strangers Box - though two songs on Yessongs come from two London shows that AREN'T on the box.  Those shows, though, makes up the Yessongs film, which is based only on the London shows (so is different, except for two songs, from the album).

Sorry, I should have put "NERD ALERT!" at the start of the post.  ;)

Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3311 on: June 19, 2023, 05:45:48 AM »
In this thread it’s assumed.  ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline ytserush

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3312 on: June 24, 2023, 12:17:30 PM »
I will. Is Yessongs one concert? a collection of live stuff?

As was more common back then, Yessongs takes performances over two tours, and thus features two lineups - one from the Fragile Tour with Bill on drums and then from the CTTE Tour with Alan White on drums.

Despite being a live compilation, the performances are pretty great (though the overall sound quality isn't too crisp or clear). It's the definitive early live Yes album IMO, and sits with the likes of Genesis' Seconds Out or ELP's Welcome Back My Friends in regards to great live albums from 70s prog bands.

-Marc. :hefdaddy

More specifically: Perpetual Change and Long Distance Runaround are from February 1972, with Bruford on drums.  He left the band after recording Close To The Edge, but about two weeks before the tour started, so they recruited Alan White to the band.  The rest of Yessongs comes from a run of shows in November of 1972 with White. Seven of those were released in their entirety on a box set - kind of like the UFO Strangers Box - though two songs on Yessongs come from two London shows that AREN'T on the box.  Those shows, though, makes up the Yessongs film, which is based only on the London shows (so is different, except for two songs, from the album).

Sorry, I should have put "NERD ALERT!" at the start of the post.  ;)

I love that Yes Box a lot more than Yessongs. It's great to hear the improv from the various shows.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3313 on: June 24, 2023, 01:34:32 PM »
Yeah, you might think that with seven shows with all the same setlist that things might get too repetitive.  But there's a lot of improvisational moments, more than I expected, considering how complex and highly structured Yes music tends to be.  But this is their show, their music, and they have to mess around a bit every night, change things up, just as any band does.  Otherwise things get boring, no matter what the music is.  Yes just "messes around" on a different level.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3314 on: June 27, 2023, 12:54:49 PM »
Steve Howe pisses on anyone who was holding out hope that Jon Anderson might ever play with Yes again:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/steve-howe-yes-i-love-jon-anderson
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3315 on: June 27, 2023, 01:05:23 PM »
I don't understand why Steve is always painted as the bad guy in these things.  Jon is very, very well known to be a dictator within the band.  In the early days, there may have been more compromise, but by the end Jon was pushing his ideas, his songs, his rules or the highway.  When Jon got sick, they postponed the tour for him, waited, waited, and finally found out that he was unavailable because he was putting together his own solo tour.  So they replaced him and never looked back.  Why would anyone want to deal with that kind of shit?

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3316 on: June 27, 2023, 01:14:52 PM »
I don't understand why Steve is always painted as the bad guy in these things.  Jon is very, very well known to be a dictator within the band.  In the early days, there may have been more compromise, but by the end Jon was pushing his ideas, his songs, his rules or the highway.  When Jon got sick, they postponed the tour for him, waited, waited, and finally found out that he was unavailable because he was putting together his own solo tour.  So they replaced him and never looked back.  Why would anyone want to deal with that kind of shit?

I think it's because it's not always black and white "this guy is good, this guy is a tool".  Howe is prickly, and there's no getting around that.   EVERYTHING he gets involved in in some form or fashion is a problematic.  He left Asia, twice.  He had problems on the Union tour (even though others, Rabin and Wakeman in particular, raved about it).  He had problems at the RnRHoF.   He's got problems now with working with Jon, even though he "loves him".   

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3317 on: June 27, 2023, 01:24:05 PM »
Jon Anderson left Yes twice, so I'm not sure what that really proves.  And I'm not surprised that Rabin and Wakeman love him.  They are the two he hooked up with to tour as "Yes featuring..." when there was already a Yes out there.  The one he left twice, but still considers "his band".

Howe is prickly, by many accounts just as difficult to work with as Anderson, but if Anderson will only work in a band that he (Anderson) has full control over, then I don't blame Howe for not even considering it.

I never said Howe was guiltless.  I'm just wondering why everyone thinks Jon Anderson is this saint who's been wronged and somehow deserves to be back in Yes and Howe is the bad guy.  Right or wrong, Howe (who has never left Yes) is running the show now and has chosen not to invite Anderson back.  I'm just saying that I don't blame him.

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3318 on: June 27, 2023, 02:18:14 PM »
Jon Anderson left Yes twice, so I'm not sure what that really proves.  And I'm not surprised that Rabin and Wakeman love him.  They are the two he hooked up with to tour as "Yes featuring..." when there was already a Yes out there.  The one he left twice, but still considers "his band".

Howe is prickly, by many accounts just as difficult to work with as Anderson, but if Anderson will only work in a band that he (Anderson) has full control over, then I don't blame Howe for not even considering it.

I never said Howe was guiltless.  I'm just wondering why everyone thinks Jon Anderson is this saint who's been wronged and somehow deserves to be back in Yes and Howe is the bad guy.  Right or wrong, Howe (who has never left Yes) is running the show now and has chosen not to invite Anderson back.  I'm just saying that I don't blame him.

Am I missing a nuance you're trying to make?   He left twice himself; once after Drama, and once after Onion.  The YesWest unit happened twice.

I'm not arguing with you; I too don't think either one is blameless.  I think it's more complicated than that.


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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3319 on: June 27, 2023, 02:41:12 PM »
Am I missing a nuance you're trying to make?   He left twice himself; once after Drama, and once after Onion.  The YesWest unit happened twice.


After Drama, Yes officially broke up.  Later, Trevor Rabin was putting together a project that he planned to call Cinema and had hooked up with Chris Squire and Alan White.  That project eventually became Yes because the label said so.  I suppose it's a matter of semantics, but Howe did not "leave" Yes.  Yes did not exist, and then it existed again in a different form that he wasn't in.  Similar to how the band Ian Anderson had put together for his solo project [A] "became" the new Jethro Tull at the suits' insistence.  Evan, Palmer, and the others found out they were no longer in Jethro Tull sometime later (via letters in the mail, of all things).

After the Union project, the future of Yes, and whether or not they existed as a band, was again uncertain.  Victory Records offered "Yes" a contract for what would become Talk, but they only wanted the 90125 lineup, no Howe, Wakeman, or Bruford.  (Rabin eventually convinced them to allow Wakeman to join, but that never happened.)  So Yes again moved forward without Howe.  Semantics again, but Yes "left" Howe, not the other way around.  When I say someone "left" a band, I mean that they willingly chose not to continue with them, not that they were fired or that some backroom deal happened and they weren't a part of it.  The two times Yes made albums without Howe, after making albums with Howe, both happened because the suits decided who the band was, not because Howe "left" the band.  It definitely was not consensual.

Anderson and Wakeman left Yes after Tormato.  Anderson wasn't happy with Yes at the time and Wakeman followed him out the door.  That's leaving a band.  In the mid-2000's, after making them wait for a year and a half for his health to recover, they finally found out that he'd put together a solo tour.  Okay, maybe we don't count that one; Yes chose to move on without him, but Anderson himself had chosen to move on without Yes.

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3320 on: June 27, 2023, 02:45:01 PM »
I know, we're totally quibbling over nuances at this point.  But for some reason people seem to think that Anderson has more "right" to decide who's in Yes than Howe, perhaps by virtue of his being an original member, or maybe just because he was the lead singer for so long.  And somehow it's important to me that Jon voluntarily left Yes twice, but still considers it "his band".  Meanwhile Howe is currently trying to keep the damned thing afloat, despite being kicked to the curb twice by the band he clearly still loves.

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3321 on: June 27, 2023, 02:54:08 PM »
I think Anderson presents himself better with his holy man schtick, this wise enlightened dude who is totally at one with the universe happy happy happy.... Howe naturally comes across as genuinely more curmudgeonly and prickly, but that's just both their respective personalities.

I'd imagine most of the conflict in Yes was always fighting about the money and control. So most of the disagreements between Anderson and Howe would probably lie more along those lines, and (most likely) Anderson notoriously always demanding a larger share of the pie in both regards. I can completely see why Howe would never want to get burned again if that's the case.

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3322 on: June 27, 2023, 03:01:11 PM »
I know, we're totally quibbling over nuances at this point.  But for some reason people seem to think that Anderson has more "right" to decide who's in Yes than Howe, perhaps by virtue of his being an original member, or maybe just because he was the lead singer for so long.  And somehow it's important to me that Jon voluntarily left Yes twice, but still considers it "his band".  Meanwhile Howe is currently trying to keep the damned thing afloat, despite being kicked to the curb twice by the band he clearly still loves.

I get your point clearly, now, and actually don't argue with you. 

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3323 on: June 27, 2023, 05:19:24 PM »
Steve Howe pisses on anyone who was holding out hope that Jon Anderson might ever play with Yes again:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/steve-howe-yes-i-love-jon-anderson

I honestly mean this in the nicest way possible, but if anyone is still holding out hope that Jon Anderson, who is almost 80, might play with Yes again, it might be time to reconsider your musical priorities. :P

What's next?  "Jeez, I hope Paul and Ringo get to play together again some day!" :lol

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #3324 on: July 01, 2023, 11:09:27 AM »
Steve Howe pisses on anyone who was holding out hope that Jon Anderson might ever play with Yes again:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/steve-howe-yes-i-love-jon-anderson

I honestly mean this in the nicest way possible, but if anyone is still holding out hope that Jon Anderson, who is almost 80, might play with Yes again, it might be time to reconsider your musical priorities. :P

What's next?  "Jeez, I hope Paul and Ringo get to play together again some day!" :lol



While I wouldn't see Anderson ever going back to working with Steve Howe again (or even rejoining Yes) He's still writing music and touring at that age and so are Paul and Ringo. They just aren't reuniting. But I guess that's more of a comment about age than anything else.