The Official Yes Thread

[ytserush]

^^^ All this.  I agree.

By the way, anyone who's interested in a new Yes album, give Arc Of Life a shot.   The first single came out and was underwhelming to say the least.   The second single, "Just In Sight" is a lot more indicative of the rest of the record (honestly, even the first track isn't that bad in the context of the record).   Billy Sherwood is a beast on bass.

At this point, Yes has become Queensryche for me now. Not the least bit interested in anything they have to say anymore.

[OpenYourEyes311]

Not a YES fan, and have never been in this thread. But I got an email about this and it would be right my alley if I were a fan. Passing along in case this is news.

https://www.popmarket.com/union-30-live-super-deluxe-flight-case-30-year-anniversary-edition-26cd-4dvd/5056083208531?utm_campaign=2112082601&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zaius

[pg1067]

That's a LOT of money for what I assume are all virtually identical live performances.  One of the best shows I ever attended, but nah.

[Orbert]

After listening to all seven shows from Progeny, and a number of bootlets over the years, what stands out to me is how different they really are.  It may seem counterintuitive, because Yes music is so complex and structured, but there's actually a lot of improvisation built in.  Steve Howe's solos and licks are always different.  Every song, every time.  Wakeman's a little more structured, but he also mixes things up a lot.  From what I heard of Rabin's live performances, he is similar.  This is most evident in the solo sections, which always feature greatly in live Yes shows.

All that said, I still think 30 discs is insane.  Maybe pick four or five of the best shows.  Or maybe seven, just so that there's something of a symmetry to the Progeny set.  But the buzz on the Yesfans boards is not about what there is, but what is missing.  Apparently there are some pretty well-known professionally shot shows from the Union tour, and they're not the ones on the DVDs here.  Also... DVD?  This is the 21st century.  I waited years to upgrade to HD, and it's been over 10 years already, so honestly I'm still surprised when anyone with any interest in audio or video has not gone HD.  These should be Blu-rays.

I'd have to think that only the most rabid fans, with a lot of money to spend, would want this, while something a little lower key might sell better.  But laying out $300 and not even getting HD turns me off right there.

[gazinwales]

Don't assume that everything that is Pro-shot is automatically able to be released.
There are so many variables for this to happen, who owns the rights, where are the master tapes, is the audio good, does the band want it released?
As for BR, not everything shot on tape or video can be upgraded and the licencing costs more.

[Stadler]

The "fan recordings" is what scares me.  I have a copy of the Shoreline show; it's KILLER.  I have to look, I think I was at the Worcester show; I know I saw Hartford (it was really good; way better than the album), but that's not on the set.

I don't know; I think I may be watching this on eBay to see if I can get it cheaper.

[ytserush]

The "fan recordings" is what scares me.  I have a copy of the Shoreline show; it's KILLER.  I have to look, I think I was at the Worcester show; I know I saw Hartford (it was really good; way better than the album), but that's not on the set.

I don't know; I think I may be watching this on eBay to see if I can get it cheaper.

ebay=cheaper? Seems like your experience with ebay is much better than mine (limited.)

[emtee]

I caught the 35th anniversary show on the Pluto music channel last weekend. Nice little acoustic set in the middle of the show. Anderson sounded great. I was kind of bummed White's toms and cymbals were unhearable. His snare was crisp but that was all. So many things have changed since then.

[Fritzinger]

I don't have a CD player, I just hope they release something like the Best Of Progeny Vinyl for this one.

[Stadler]

The "fan recordings" is what scares me.  I have a copy of the Shoreline show; it's KILLER.  I have to look, I think I was at the Worcester show; I know I saw Hartford (it was really good; way better than the album), but that's not on the set.

I don't know; I think I may be watching this on eBay to see if I can get it cheaper.

ebay=cheaper? Seems like your experience with ebay is much better than mine (limited.)

Well, depends what it is, and you have to be patient.   The pro sellers are usually not cheap, but if you can find a private seller looking to move it, sometimes you can find a deal.   I get 80% or more of my CDs from Discogs, and the remainder are eBay, Amazon or direct (the only direct I'm really buying, though, is from Neal Morse and Marillion/Fish, and not even then).

[Fritzinger]

The "fan recordings" is what scares me.  I have a copy of the Shoreline show; it's KILLER.  I have to look, I think I was at the Worcester show; I know I saw Hartford (it was really good; way better than the album), but that's not on the set.

I don't know; I think I may be watching this on eBay to see if I can get it cheaper.

ebay=cheaper? Seems like your experience with ebay is much better than mine (limited.)

Well, depends what it is, and you have to be patient.   The pro sellers are usually not cheap, but if you can find a private seller looking to move it, sometimes you can find a deal.   I get 80% or more of my CDs from Discogs, and the remainder are eBay, Amazon or direct (the only direct I'm really buying, though, is from Neal Morse and Marillion/Fish, and not even then).

I'm not sure why, but I feel like this has gotten much rarer over the last years. I used to always scan eBay for vinyl, but very often the prices there are outrageous by now, as opposed to 4-5 years ago, when I used to stuff cheaper than on Amazon.

Discogs is a completely different story though! I often find rare stuff on Discogs for reasonable prices. Just the other day I bought Ayreon's Electric Castle on gold vinyl for 80 bucks (I know, it's a huge chunk of money, but usually these limited editions go for twice this money).

[ytserush]

The "fan recordings" is what scares me.  I have a copy of the Shoreline show; it's KILLER.  I have to look, I think I was at the Worcester show; I know I saw Hartford (it was really good; way better than the album), but that's not on the set.

I don't know; I think I may be watching this on eBay to see if I can get it cheaper.

ebay=cheaper? Seems like your experience with ebay is much better than mine (limited.)

Well, depends what it is, and you have to be patient.   The pro sellers are usually not cheap, but if you can find a private seller looking to move it, sometimes you can find a deal.   I get 80% or more of my CDs from Discogs, and the remainder are eBay, Amazon or direct (the only direct I'm really buying, though, is from Neal Morse and Marillion/Fish, and not even then).

Been on ebay a bit more regularly since Covid but haven't found too much of interest and when I do the prices are laughably unreasonable.

[pg1067]

I was listening yesterday and today to the ABWH "An Evening of Yes Music Plus" live album -- actually just the Yes songs on the album -- and was wondering what everyone's thoughts are about that project 30 years after the fact.

I was excited about having Bruford, Wakeman and Howe together again, and I liked the one studio album at the time, but I probably haven't listened to it in 10-20 years.  It didn't really sound too much like early Yes, and I suspect a lot of that was a result of Chris Squire not being involved and Bill Bruford's focus on electronic percussion.  I went to a concert on the tour and really enjoyed it, but the live album is very lacking and...antiseptic.  I recall reading somewhere that they (or one of them) regretted not including Tony Levin in the band name or as a full member of the group, and I don't know if that had anything to do with him not being on the tour (or the full tour?).  Jeff Berlin played at the show I saw and on the live album, but his bass is very low in the mix, which really takes away from most of the Yes songs, which should feature Squire's growling Rickenbacker.  Despite the inclusion of an additional guitarist and keyboard player, the sound on the live album is somewhat sparse and wimpy.

So...what'd'ya think?

[Orbert]

Tony Levin toured with them, but missed some shows because he got sick.  Those included the shows recorded for the live album and apparently the night you saw them as well.  Jeff Berlin was brought in on very short notice, but I have no issues with his performance and think they should've cranked him up.  Berlin was Bruford's bassist and a beast in his own right.

I agree with you that there's something off-putting about the sound of the recording, and it's hard to quantify, but "antiseptic" works for me.  Bruford thought he was joining Anderson's latest project, and was disappointed that it "turned into Yes".  His sound is different from classic Yes because he was into different sounds and stuff by then, including the electronic and synth drums.  When you get this many great musicians together, it's really hard to not be impressed with the results, but the album lacks warmth and somehow doesn't sound very "live" to me, though it's obviously live.  It's almost as though they practiced "too much" and the results were too perfect, too clean and shiny.

[Stadler]

I have to wrack my  brain, but I'm pretty sure when I saw them it was with Levin.  I remember the "stick fingers".   I was into Maiden and Ozzy and Rainbow, but I liked Yes because they had balls (read:  Chris Squire).   I went to this out of a sense of... completeness but it was unrewarding.  Good set, but it wasn't YES.   I much prefered - at that time, and now - the Rabin Yes.  I thought that core trio of Rabin-Squire-White had the essence of Yes that ABWH did not.

[Kwyjibo]

I liked the ABWH record and I still do, for sure there are better Yes-related records, but also a lot of worse ones. The only dud here is Teakbois.

And I saw them live with Levin. He had the stick fingers and he had a bass with a simple drawing of himself, just some lines, a bald head and a mustache but very obviously himself, and I thought "how cool is that". 

The live record of that tour doesn't match what I remember the show to be. Antiseptic isn't a bad word to describe the record. The show itself I saw was great, but then it was the first and only time I saw Yes (or something as close as could be without being Yes), so that may cloud my judgement.

Isn't there another recording out there with Levin that was released some years ago? Has anyone heard it? Is it better?

[pg1067]

Tony Levin toured with them, but missed some shows because he got sick.  Those included the shows recorded for the live album and apparently the night you saw them as well.  Jeff Berlin was brought in on very short notice, but I have no issues with his performance and think they should've cranked him up.  Berlin was Bruford's bassist and a beast in his own right.

I agree with you that there's something off-putting about the sound of the recording, and it's hard to quantify, but "antiseptic" works for me.  Bruford thought he was joining Anderson's latest project, and was disappointed that it "turned into Yes".  His sound is different from classic Yes because he was into different sounds and stuff by then, including the electronic and synth drums.  When you get this many great musicians together, it's really hard to not be impressed with the results, but the album lacks warmth and somehow doesn't sound very "live" to me, though it's obviously live.  It's almost as though they practiced "too much" and the results were too perfect, too clean and shiny.

Ah yes...now I remember about Levin and Berlin.  Jeff Berlin was a huge name at the time.  I don't remember how the concert itself sounded, but the bass just isn't there on the recording, which is disappointing.

[Lupton]

Hadn't listened to that live album in years. IIRC Bruford's electronic kit makes Close to the Edge close to unlistenable. Most of the other classic material suffers a similar fate. IMO the synth drums only work on on the ABWH tunes for which they were originally proscribed. I doubt I'll ever feel inclined to check this out again.

[KevShmev]

I am not much of a live album guy, but I did enjoy that ABWH one a lot, and the live version of And You and I even became my go-to version of that song for a spell.  And I LOVE that live version of Birthright.   And of course that piano/keyboard/piano solo Wakeman does is just ridiculous.

[King Postwhore]

I saw that tour in a building made for music.   The Wang Center. the acoustics for that show was amazing. 

[ytserush]

I was listening yesterday and today to the ABWH "An Evening of Yes Music Plus" live album -- actually just the Yes songs on the album -- and was wondering what everyone's thoughts are about that project 30 years after the fact.

I was excited about having Bruford, Wakeman and Howe together again, and I liked the one studio album at the time, but I probably haven't listened to it in 10-20 years.  It didn't really sound too much like early Yes, and I suspect a lot of that was a result of Chris Squire not being involved and Bill Bruford's focus on electronic percussion.  I went to a concert on the tour and really enjoyed it, but the live album is very lacking and...antiseptic.  I recall reading somewhere that they (or one of them) regretted not including Tony Levin in the band name or as a full member of the group, and I don't know if that had anything to do with him not being on the tour (or the full tour?).  Jeff Berlin played at the show I saw and on the live album, but his bass is very low in the mix, which really takes away from most of the Yes songs, which should feature Squire's growling Rickenbacker.  Despite the inclusion of an additional guitarist and keyboard player, the sound on the live album is somewhat sparse and wimpy.

So...what'd'ya think?

Still like that album a lot. The electronic percussion does really date it and having the bass that low is a bit baffling but other than that I think it's pretty good.

[pg1067]

Not sure the extent to which folks here are fans of "reaction" videos, but this "classical composer reacts to 'Close to the Edge'" video is just fantastic.  This guy has such great insights (even into lyrics).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRw3QlUuuSc

[Fritzinger]

Not sure the extent to which folks here are fans of "reaction" videos, but this "classical composer reacts to 'Close to the Edge'" video is just fantastic.  This guy has such great insights (even into lyrics).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRw3QlUuuSc

I often watch this guy and I really like what he has to say! (Except for double bass drumming  )

This video was interesting in particular, because it revealed (once again) how fucking COMPLICATED Yes' music was back in the 70s.

[romdrums]

Not sure the extent to which folks here are fans of "reaction" videos, but this "classical composer reacts to 'Close to the Edge'" video is just fantastic.  This guy has such great insights (even into lyrics).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRw3QlUuuSc

I just watched this, and it was fantastic.  Maybe the best, most genuine reaction video I've seen.  I really appreciated his insights, and what seemed to be genuine awe of how they did what they did.  Just really good stuff.

[HOF]

My thing with reaction videos (in addition to sometimes wondering if the person is really hearing the song for the first time) is that I don’t really want to watch someone listen to a song. I love what Rick Beato does with breaking down a song, and think more people should do “classical composer analyzes” or “explains” such and such. The reaction genre has just gotten kind of gimmicky. I saw one that was classically trained flautist reacts to Jethro Tull (or something along those lines), and I’m pretty sure that was her only video and that she had previously listened to Jethro Tull before. I did get a kick out of it though.

Beth Roars is easily the best of the “[professional so and so] reacts” YouTubers though.

[Lupton]

"professional _____ reacts to metal/prog song"  and  "hip-hop dude reacts to prog song" seem to be the most garden variety of these videos it would seem.

[NoseofNicko]

Not sure the extent to which folks here are fans of "reaction" videos, but this "classical composer reacts to 'Close to the Edge'" video is just fantastic.  This guy has such great insights (even into lyrics).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRw3QlUuuSc

Subscribed to that guy a short while ago. Really enjoy his videos including that one.

[pg1067]

My thing with reaction videos (in addition to sometimes wondering if the person is really hearing the song for the first time) is that I don’t really want to watch someone listen to a song. I love what Rick Beato does with breaking down a song, and think more people should do “classical composer analyzes” or “explains” such and such. The reaction genre has just gotten kind of gimmicky. I saw one that was classically trained flautist reacts to Jethro Tull (or something along those lines), and I’m pretty sure that was her only video and that she had previously listened to Jethro Tull before. I did get a kick out of it though.

Beth Roars is easily the best of the “[professional so and so] reacts” YouTubers though.

Was the flute girl blonde and vaguely eastern European and named Helene (or something like that)?  I watched one of hers and it wasn't terribly interesting.  She's got a bunch of "Yetro Tool" reaction videos, which isn't surprising because there isn't much else for a flute player to react to.

I watched a few by a vocal coach who calls herself "Rebecca Vocal Athlete," but I haven't seen much by her recently.  The "hip hop guy reacts" videos got old pretty quickly.

I love the Beato videos too, but those are very different, and I still like some of the reaction videos.  For me, it's all about genuine reactions and insight that's beyond what I know myself.  Doug brings that in spades, although he's pumping out a lot of Maiden reaction videos.  Those aren't as interesting because, spoiler alert, they're almost all in Em with a I vi vii progression, although his SSOASS video was pretty good.

[Stadler]

It's just me, and I don't begrudge anyone watching what interests them, but reaction videos do nothing for me.  Music is an experience, and a sensory experience at that.  I want to react to the music, not watch someone react.  It's like watching someone watch porn.   No thanks. 

[pg1067]

When I watched Doug's video for Close to the Edge, I found myself thinking that it would be interesting to see Jon Anderson react to this guy's video.  It'd be interesting to see what Jon would think of Doug's insights - especially with respect to the lyrics.

[chknptpie]

His Lateralus video was very cool. He pointed out things I was unaware of.

[Fritzinger]

His Lateralus video was very cool. He pointed out things I was unaware of.

I was quite impressed that he figured out the Fibonacci stuff by himself. He listened and went "wait, are they using the Fibonacci sequence to build this melody?"

[Architeuthis]

It's just me, and I don't begrudge anyone watching what interests them, but reaction videos do nothing for me.  Music is an experience, and a sensory experience at that.  I want to react to the music, not watch someone react.  It's like watching someone watch porn.   No thanks. 

Maybe they should make videos of us reacting to reaction videos.. 🤔

[Skeever]

His Lateralus video was very cool. He pointed out things I was unaware of.

I was quite impressed that he figured out the Fibonacci stuff by himself. He listened and went "wait, are they using the Fibonacci sequence to build this melody?"

What are the chances that this is really true?

These reaction videos do not impress me much, either. To me, they are probably not even what they claim to be. What I would suspect is more often the case is that the person making them understands that the value they offer is affirmation that what the viewer likes is good.

I've seen this "classical composer" and he makes very few comments of original value. As far as I know, he's not even a classical composer - I have never heard of him, at least. The point is, he provides a service, and that service is swooping in from somewhere else to affirm for you that the things you like are recognized as good by someone "out there". It's no different than the "Black Dude/White Chick Listens to Dream Theater" type reaction videos. We all know nerdy white guys love prog. This videos are about catering to the need for affirmation that people who aren't that like it too.

[HOF]

His Lateralus video was very cool. He pointed out things I was unaware of.

I was quite impressed that he figured out the Fibonacci stuff by himself. He listened and went "wait, are they using the Fibonacci sequence to build this melody?"

What are the chances that this is really true?

These reaction videos do not impress me much, either. To me, they are probably not even what they claim to be. What I would suspect is more often the case is that the person making them understands that the value they offer is affirmation that what the viewer likes is good.

I've seen this "classical composer" and he makes very few comments of original value. As far as I know, he's not even a classical composer - I have never heard of him, at least. The point is, he provides a service, and that service is swooping in from somewhere else to affirm for you that the things you like are recognized as good by someone "out there". It's no different than the "Black Dude/White Chick Listens to Dream Theater" type reaction videos. We all know nerdy white guys love prog. This videos are about catering to the need for affirmation that people who aren't that like it too.

These are essentially my thoughts as well. I don’t think most of these are first time reactions (some may be since they tend to take a lot of requests), but in this guys’ case he admitted to being familiar with Dream Theater in his Dance of Eternity video and also having attended a G3 concert. Seems unlikely he’s never heard Close to the Edge or Tool. I think it’s more likely he is embellishing a bit, but some of this may be new to him.

He is a real composer though:

http://www.rdouglashelvering.com/