Author Topic: The Official Yes Thread  (Read 265101 times)

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Offline gzarruk

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2765 on: February 07, 2021, 09:32:02 AM »
I haven't listened to CTTE in ages... time to change that.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2766 on: February 07, 2021, 11:35:19 AM »
Fragile is such an odd duck for me.

Roundabout?  Heart of the Sunrise?  Absolute 10/10 classics.

South Side?  Underrated, great song.

Long Distance Runaround?  Quirky, good song.

Mood for the Day?  Incredible solo guitar piece.

But that's really it.

The Fish is cool, but....  Cans and Brahms?  Yawn.  We Have Heaven?  Yeah, ok, Jon.  Five Percent?  Thank goodness it's only 35 seconds.

The Yes Album has two all-time great songs:  Disgrace and Starship.  Sandwiched between them is another great Steve Howe guitar piece (Clap).  I'm not a huge fan of YM/AGP, and I think Perpetual Change is underrated.  A Venture is no better than meh.

GFTO:  I'm not a huge fan of the title track, and I think Parallels on Yesshows is WAY better than the studio version.  So I'd probably put TYA and GFTO on roughly the same level.

CTTE is perfection from start to finish, and TFTO comes pretty close.  Relayer loses it on side 2.  Sound Chaser is good but not great, and To Be Over is just meh.

Drama?  The first and third songs on each side are really good to great, but there's nothing there that makes me say all-time great.

I guess that makes my rankings as follows:

CTTE
TFTO
Relayer
Fragile
TYA/GFTO
Drama
Tormato
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2767 on: February 07, 2021, 12:23:49 PM »
Fragile is such an odd duck for me.

Roundabout?  Heart of the Sunrise?  Absolute 10/10 classics.

South Side?  Underrated, great song.

Long Distance Runaround?  Quirky, good song.

Mood for the Day?  Incredible solo guitar piece.

But that's really it.

The Fish is cool, but....  Cans and Brahms?  Yawn.  We Have Heaven?  Yeah, ok, Jon.  Five Percent?  Thank goodness it's only 35 seconds.

On this I agree almost 100%. Cans, Heaven and Five could have been eliminated as they are and I would be fine with it. The Long Distance/Fish double pack is pretty cool. And the three "big" songs are all amazing and deservedly classics.

But:

Relayer loses it on side 2.  Sound Chaser is good but not great, and To Be Over is just meh.

To Be Over meh?
To Be Over?

MEH???

I think To Be Over is one of their most beautiful songs of all time. And I'll put it above And You And I as well! The finale is just amazing. I always hear church bells (although there are no church bells).

I'll fight you over this  :biggrin:
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2768 on: February 07, 2021, 01:04:49 PM »
I don't hold We Have Heaven or the keyboard or drum solo songs against Fragile at all considering they take up less than four minutes of the entire album.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2769 on: February 07, 2021, 01:30:15 PM »
Fragile is such an odd duck for me.

Roundabout?  Heart of the Sunrise?  Absolute 10/10 classics.

South Side?  Underrated, great song.

Long Distance Runaround?  Quirky, good song.

Mood for the Day?  Incredible solo guitar piece.

But that's really it.

The Fish is cool, but....  Cans and Brahms?  Yawn.  We Have Heaven?  Yeah, ok, Jon.  Five Percent?  Thank goodness it's only 35 seconds.

On this I agree almost 100%. Cans, Heaven and Five could have been eliminated as they are and I would be fine with it. The Long Distance/Fish double pack is pretty cool. And the three "big" songs are all amazing and deservedly classics.

Long Distance/Fish is greater than the sum of its parts.  Still...

Mood >>> Fish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cans >>>>> Heaven >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x1000 >>>>>>> 5%


To Be Over meh?
To Be Over?

MEH???

I think To Be Over is one of their most beautiful songs of all time. And I'll put it above And You And I as well! The finale is just amazing. I always hear church bells (although there are no church bells).

I'll fight you over this  :biggrin:

Gotta find me first!  ;-)  I see TBO get a lot of love here, so I listen to it more frequently than I otherwise would, but after 30+ years I don't think my opinion is too likely to change.


I don't hold We Have Heaven or the keyboard or drum solo songs against Fragile at all considering they take up less than four minutes of the entire album.

Fair point.  It's hard, in retrospect, not to apply modern album length standards and say that I wish they had done another "real" song.


Also, The Yes Album will be 50 years old in 10 days, and Fragile will hit the 50 year mark this November.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2770 on: February 07, 2021, 02:24:22 PM »
I also agree that Cans & Brahms, We Have Heaven (& its reprise), & 5% aren't that great, but combined, they only make up about 10% of the album.

If they were unlistenable or something, it'd probably bother me more, but personally I think they're just "meh". I think they're nice in the context of the album but don't offer much on their own. That doesn't stop Fragile from being in my top 5 albums of all time.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2771 on: February 07, 2021, 02:53:19 PM »
I actually think all of those bits on Fragile are either entertaining or pleasant. Even if they were duds, they wouldn't be able to drag down an album otherwise composed of brilliant epic music.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2772 on: February 07, 2021, 03:55:56 PM »
I actually think all of those bits on Fragile are either entertaining or pleasant. Even if they were duds, they wouldn't be able to drag down an album otherwise composed of brilliant epic music.

I think 3 of the 5 are duds, but yeah, I agree that they don't drag down the album.  They do, however, fail to elevate it beyond three great songs and one that's really good (plus Mood for a Day, which is great, but it's just Steve).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2773 on: February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM »
I actually think all of those bits on Fragile are either entertaining or pleasant. Even if they were duds, they wouldn't be able to drag down an album otherwise composed of brilliant epic music.

I like them actually. The only one I can do with out is Five Percent, but it's so short, it's not worth complaining about.

Offline Mladen

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2774 on: February 07, 2021, 04:18:13 PM »
I love Five percent for being frantic yet brief, such an awesome moment.  :metal

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2775 on: February 07, 2021, 04:41:43 PM »
.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 01:50:24 PM by ThatOneGuy2112 »

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2776 on: February 07, 2021, 05:28:58 PM »
I've listened to Fragile start to finish so many times now (including the first hundred or so on vinyl obviously) that I couldn't imagine it any other way.  Plus, there's a whole reason and logic to the inclusion of the solo pieces, and why Wakeman's is kinda weak (even though I like it), so I can't hold any of that against them.  I think it's a cool concept, honestly.  Back when bands could do stuff like that.  Not trying to be obscure, just don't want to repeat stuff that's already been discussed.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2777 on: February 07, 2021, 05:58:38 PM »
there's a whole reason and logic to the inclusion of the solo pieces, and why Wakeman's is kinda weak

I must have missed this discussion....?
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2778 on: February 07, 2021, 06:01:42 PM »
there's a whole reason and logic to the inclusion of the solo pieces, and why Wakeman's is kinda weak

I must have missed this discussion....?

Me too.  I'm in for a recap.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2779 on: February 07, 2021, 06:13:21 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Wakeman's extravagant keyboard set up left the band with some financial (& thus, time) constraints. This meant they had to get the album out soon while only having 30ish minutes of material. That's when the idea of filling the rest of the album with the solo pieces came in.

idk the reason for Wakeman's interlude being "kinda weak" though.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 07:44:28 PM by IDontNotDoThings »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2780 on: February 07, 2021, 06:36:43 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Wakeman's extravagant keyboard set up left the band with some financial (& thus, time) constraints. This meant they had to get the album soon out while only having 30ish minutes of material. That's when the idea of filling the rest of the album with the solo pieces came in.

idk the reason for Wakeman's interlude being "kinda weak" though.

Well, I know he couldn't write anything because of his solo deal with... I think it was A&M.  So that's why his is a cover.  I don't know if that equates to "weak".  I like how he used different keyboard instruments to play the different orchestral instruments.

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2781 on: February 07, 2021, 07:16:05 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Wakeman's extravagant keyboard set up left the band with some financial (& thus, time) constraints. This meant they had to get the album soon out while only having 30ish minutes of material. That's when the idea of filling the rest of the album with the solo pieces came in.

idk the reason for Wakeman's interlude being "kinda weak" though.

Well, I know he couldn't write anything because of his solo deal with... I think it was A&M.  So that's why his is a cover.  I don't know if that equates to "weak".  I like how he used different keyboard instruments to play the different orchestral instruments.

Per Wikipedia (which is largely based on an unauthorized bio written by someone named Dan Hedges):  "Fragile is formed of nine tracks; four are 'group arranged and performed' with the remaining five being 'the individual ideas, personally arranged and organised' by the five members.  Squire reasoned this approach was necessary in part to save time and reduce studio costs, as money was used to purchase keyboard equipment for Wakeman."
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2782 on: February 07, 2021, 08:15:54 PM »
It's all of the above.  There was huge pressure from Atlantic to get the next album out.  Part of that was because Wakeman's keyboards were very expensive.  I've never seen it spelled out explicitly, but I've always taken that to mean that the label actually bought the equipment and wanted their investment back.  It seems weird that the label would buy the equipment in the first place, but the Wakeman deal was weird all the way around.  Maybe it was Wakeman personally who went deep into debt?  That doesn't make much sense, either, but who knows?

The liner notes talk about how there are spotlight tracks for each of the band members.  The Fish is Squire, Mood for a Day is obviously Howe, Five Per Cent for Nothing is Bruford, and We Have Heaven is Anderson.  Wakeman had a piece ready, but he was contracted to A&M records, and the terms of him appearing on Atlantic forbade him from recording any original music with them.  So at the last minute, he whipped up "Cans and Brahms".  I personally like it.  In the 70's, it was still pretty novel to arrange a classical piece entirely for keyboards, and the idea of each section being played on a different keyboard seemed pretty cool to me.  I think I was still in junior high when Fragile came out.  I remember my mom had to drive me to the store to get it.

The five solo tracks were literally filler, because the band only had four songs ready and the label was pressuring them to get the next album out because they have bills to pay.  It was presented as a way to spotlight each of the members, but it was really because Yes take a long time to write and record songs, but the solo tracks could be put together relatively quickly.

Anyway, I referred to Can and Brahms as "weak" because on the Yesfans boards, it seems to be considered pretty bad.  At least part of that is because the piece Wakeman had prepared became Catherine of Aragon from his solo album The Six Wives of Henry VIII, and it's one of the standout tracks.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2783 on: February 07, 2021, 08:36:25 PM »
It's all of the above.  There was huge pressure from Atlantic to get the next album out.  Part of that was because Wakeman's keyboards were very expensive.  I've never seen it spelled out explicitly, but I've always taken that to mean that the label actually bought the equipment and wanted their investment back.  It seems weird that the label would buy the equipment in the first place, but the Wakeman deal was weird all the way around.  Maybe it was Wakeman personally who went deep into debt?  That doesn't make much sense, either, but who knows?

The liner notes talk about how there are spotlight tracks for each of the band members.  The Fish is Squire, Mood for a Day is obviously Howe, Five Per Cent for Nothing is Bruford, and We Have Heaven is Anderson.  Wakeman had a piece ready, but he was contracted to A&M records, and the terms of him appearing on Atlantic forbade him from recording any original music with them.  So at the last minute, he whipped up "Cans and Brahms".  I personally like it.  In the 70's, it was still pretty novel to arrange a classical piece entirely for keyboards, and the idea of each section being played on a different keyboard seemed pretty cool to me.  I think I was still in junior high when Fragile came out.  I remember my mom had to drive me to the store to get it.

The five solo tracks were literally filler, because the band only had four songs ready and the label was pressuring them to get the next album out because they have bills to pay.  It was presented as a way to spotlight each of the members, but it was really because Yes take a long time to write and record songs, but the solo tracks could be put together relatively quickly.

Anyway, I referred to Can and Brahms as "weak" because on the Yesfans boards, it seems to be considered pretty bad.  At least part of that is because the piece Wakeman had prepared became Catherine of Aragon from his solo album The Six Wives of Henry VIII, and it's one of the standout tracks.

Wakeman has had his share of financial troubles over the years.

Offline HOF

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2784 on: February 07, 2021, 08:43:06 PM »
Popping in to say how much I love To Be Over.

Offline Eldomm

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2785 on: February 08, 2021, 08:03:23 AM »
Popping in to say how much I love To Be Over.
Absolutely. One of my favorites!

Offline DTA

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2786 on: February 08, 2021, 10:07:26 AM »
Popping in to say how much I love To Be Over.

Yep, the outro to To Be Over is the high point of all their music pre-Turn of the Century for me. Absolutely stunning piece of music from beginning to end.

Offline EPICVIEW

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2787 on: February 08, 2021, 10:08:53 AM »
ive been enjoying rediscovering Yes,   I loved them growing up.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2788 on: February 08, 2021, 10:14:56 AM »
Glad I'm not the only one in love with To Be Over. I think it's magical.



By the way, Yes are working on a new album. I read that here:
https://progrock-dt.de/index.php/2021/01/21/es-wird-ernst-das-neue-yes-album-kommt/

Quote
It's getting serious: The new Yes album is coming
We already know that Yes are working on a new album. Now it seems to be largely completed. In a recent interview, drummer Alan White said, "I just finished work on a Yes album and we did everything online by sharing files over the Internet."

The songs were composed mainly by Steve Howe and singer Jon Davison, with some contributions from the other band members. Many ideas go back to Davison, as was the case with "Heaven & Earth".

When asked what the album will sound like, White says: “It will be a completely different album again than last time, as was the case with many Yes albums in the past. I think it will surprise a lot of people. Some things are very commercial, but there are also a bit more funky pieces. ”Contrary to what guitarist Steve Howe has suggested at times, there won't be any epic longtracks on the new album. "We don't have the energy for 27-minute pieces anymore," jokes White. He reports on eleven or twelve songs that are between five and eight minutes long. Whether the supposedly ten-minute "Horizons" (a holdover from the "Heaven & Earth" sessions), "Breaking down on Easy Street" (which dates back to 2012, and was probably made with the participation of Chris Squires) and / or "Midnight" (presumably by Squire and White) will be on the album is still unclear. However, White announced the title of one of the songs: "The Ice Bridge".

As for the status of the work and a possible release date, White cautiously states: “We are currently in the process of mixing the album. That's a lot of material ”. He hopes Yes can release the album in late spring or summer.

In my opinion, all of this doesn't sound too good. Commercial? Funky? ALL via internet? When were Yes ever able to write "commercial" songs (without Trevor Rabin)? And let's be honest, I don't believe White is in the condition to play anything "funky". He was never a "funky" player, but nothing on Heaven & Earth was even groovy.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2789 on: February 08, 2021, 12:26:25 PM »
^^^ All this.  I agree.

By the way, anyone who's interested in a new Yes album, give Arc Of Life a shot.   The first single came out and was underwhelming to say the least.   The second single, "Just In Sight" is a lot more indicative of the rest of the record (honestly, even the first track isn't that bad in the context of the record).   Billy Sherwood is a beast on bass.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 09:15:27 AM by Stadler »

Offline Mladen

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2790 on: February 08, 2021, 12:52:21 PM »
I was slightly underwhelmed by Heaven and earth. It wasn't as offensive to my ears as it was to the rest of the fanbase, some of it I found enjoyable, but it was way too vanilla overall. I wonder if they still have it in them to knock it out of the park this time around.

Offline emtee

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2791 on: February 08, 2021, 03:07:35 PM »
Heaven And Earth was the most underwhelming, milquetoast album I've ever heard. And, I can almost always find something redeeming in Yes music. Not that one though.

I too find Fragile as an odd duck. Love parts of it but skip others. Still a classic though.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2792 on: February 12, 2021, 12:58:50 AM »
When I first got into Yes, Fragile was the one album that kind of stuck with me; Close To The Edge took me a LONG time to get into, particularly the title track, and TFTO was even a more difficult album for me to feel. Fragile had shorter songs with songwriting that was just as powerful and complex without being too drawn out or eccentric for me to understand, and I actually really enjoyed the little solo pieces. I felt like "America" should have been on the album, though, and it would've given the album another powerful all-band piece. I re-arranged the track list to fit in "America" and it could have even worked on vinyl!

Side 1 - 24:19
Roundabout
Cans And Brahms
Long Distance Runaround
The Fish
America

Side 2 - 24:47
We Have Heaven
South Side Of The Sky
Five Per Cent For Nothing
Mood For A Day
Heart Of The Sunrise

I knew I wanted to keep the last two tracks as they were, and of course, opening with the first two seemed obvious (I liked the idea that they put CAB right after the opener to be like "Hey, here's our new keyboard player, check him out!" and show him off). With the reprise of "We Have Heaven" tacked on after HOTS, I figured it would create a neat affect to "open side 2" with that song, and so I kept SSOTS after it. All that was left was placing "America" at the "end of side 1" and filling in the other four tracks. In this configuration, I've really come to love the album even more, with five solo spots and five band songs, it's a great collection of pieces that really showcase the band's strengths at the time with some great playing throughout.

-Marc.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2793 on: February 12, 2021, 01:48:44 AM »
I like the way you think Marc ;) That We Have Heaven Reprise idea could have come from me  :biggrin:

I don't dislike any of the solo songs, but they cause a bit of an "all over the place"-character for me. Fragile just has those shorter songs that are all completely different and thus lacks some of the consistency that the other albums have.

In my opinion, an album consisting of Roundabout, Long Distance (maybe plus Fish), South Side, America (great thought to mention this awesome cover!!) and Heart Of The Sunrise would have made up a perfect album.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 02:34:48 AM by Fritzinger »
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2794 on: February 12, 2021, 01:58:00 AM »
Side 1 - 24:19
Roundabout
Cans And Brahms
Long Distance Runaround
The Fish
America

Side 2 - 24:47
We Have Heaven
South Side Of The Sky
Five Per Cent For Nothing
Mood For A Day
Heart Of The Sunrise

I really like this playlist, but I think your math is a bit off for Side 1. It seems like that's closer to 26:45 :P
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2795 on: February 12, 2021, 09:03:07 AM »
Side 1 - 24:19
Roundabout
Cans And Brahms
Long Distance Runaround
The Fish
America

Side 2 - 24:47
We Have Heaven
South Side Of The Sky
Five Per Cent For Nothing
Mood For A Day
Heart Of The Sunrise

I really like this playlist, but I think your math is a bit off for Side 1. It seems like that's closer to 26:45 :P

Oh, whoops. I actually had CAB and 5% swapped. I couldn't remember my exact original re-done play list from years ago and had to guess what it was and I thought I kept CAB as track 2. But I just checked my iPad (which I've had for 15 years) and it has 5% as track two.

Side 1 - 25:55
Roundabout
Five Per Cent For Nothing
Long Distance Runaround
The Fish
America

Side 2 - 25:52
We Have Heaven
South Side Of The Sky
Cans And Brahms
Mood For A Day
Heart Of The Sunrise

There we go, a lot more even! I remember now that I wanted to have the rhythm section featured on side 1 and the melodic lead players on side 2, so 5% and The Fish came before CAB and MFAD.

-Marc.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2796 on: February 12, 2021, 10:04:52 AM »
That really would have been pushing it for 1971.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2797 on: February 12, 2021, 10:09:16 AM »
That really would have been pushing it for 1971.

Fragile with "America" is only 33 seconds longer than Genesis' Foxtrot, which came out less than a year later.

-Marc.
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Offline ytserush

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2798 on: February 13, 2021, 07:06:21 PM »
I was reminded last weeks of the lyrics to And You and I (which was played by the DJ at my wedding reception), so CTTE is next on my list after I finish my current jaunt through Triumph's discography.

That is by far my favorite song on that album. It was a wedding reception song for us as well. Think I posted the full wedding reception list around here at some point.

Offline ytserush

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Re: The Official Yes Thread
« Reply #2799 on: February 13, 2021, 07:11:34 PM »
Popping in to say how much I love To Be Over.
Absolutely. One of my favorites!

Yes!