The Official Yes Thread

[DTA]

Just bought the Steven Wilson remixes of The Yes Album through Relayer. They were bundled together on amazon for 20 bucks so I figured it was worth it. I probably won't get around to listening to them in depth for a bit, but I hear they're a vast improvement on the originals (and the 2003 remixes I already own). I'm mainly excited to hear Relayer...some of Steve's playing and the battle sounds are so shrill on the 2003 version that it's tough to listen to.

[SoundscapeMN]

I guess this is a relatively new documentary about Close to the Edge for anyone interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvEfa5zKK7g&feature=emb_title

[ytserush]

Just bought the Steven Wilson remixes of The Yes Album through Relayer. They were bundled together on amazon for 20 bucks so I figured it was worth it. I probably won't get around to listening to them in depth for a bit, but I hear they're a vast improvement on the originals (and the 2003 remixes I already own). I'm mainly excited to hear Relayer...some of Steve's playing and the battle sounds are so shrill on the 2003 version that it's tough to listen to.

Those sound pretty amazing. Two of my favorite Yes albums.

[jammindude]

Still kills me that SW didn’t get to do GFTO. But I guess I heard something about the original masters being either missing or partially damaged? I don’t remember which.

[Lupton]

Still kills me that SW didn’t get to do GFTO. But I guess I heard something about the original masters being either missing or partially damaged? I don’t remember which.

The last time I listened to Going for the One the thought occurred to me that it would be my favorite Yes album if it had a decent mix. It's probably their strongest collection of individual songs. The thing is, I never realized this back in the days of my youth when I was discovering Yes and couldn't quite put my finger on why I didn't like that album as much as say Fragile or The Yes Album. Would love to hear this re-mixed.

My guess is even if they had the master tapes, there's no telling how much of the reverb is in the actual individual tracks, or was added by the console in the mix. You can't un-reverb a track that was recorded that way. Maybe they have to technology now to fix those things?

[Fritzinger]

Still kills me that SW didn’t get to do GFTO. But I guess I heard something about the original masters being either missing or partially damaged? I don’t remember which.

100% my opinion, and I'd like to add Drama. I would love to hear what he's make out of those two albums. Maybe he just doesn't like them. I heard he only remasters/remixes albums he personally likes (which makes sense)

[HOF]

I’ve kind of slowly and deliberately gotten into Yes’ catalog. For a long time I only ever had 90125, and then I finally got Fragile, followed relatively shortly by Relayer and then Close to the Edge, all of which I really enjoy. But as much as I enjoy all those albums, I have a hard time prioritizing new Yes albums over all the other stuff I’ve been exploring.

So anyway, which 70s Yes album would you guys say is the next best step to take? The Yes Album? Tales from the Topographic Ocean? Going for the One?

[BelichickFan]

I’ve kind of slowly and deliberately gotten into Yes’ catalog. For a long time I only ever had 90125, and then I finally got Fragile, followed relatively shortly by Relayer and then Close to the Edge, all of which I really enjoy. But as much as I enjoy all those albums, I have a hard time prioritizing new Yes albums over all the other stuff I’ve been exploring.

So anyway, which 70s Yes album would you guys say is the next best step to take? The Yes Album? Tales from the Topographic Ocean? Going for the One?

You can't go wrong with The Yes Album or GftO.

Tales is awesome but put that nearer the end. It requires more patience.

[HOF]

I’ve kind of slowly and deliberately gotten into Yes’ catalog. For a long time I only ever had 90125, and then I finally got Fragile, followed relatively shortly by Relayer and then Close to the Edge, all of which I really enjoy. But as much as I enjoy all those albums, I have a hard time prioritizing new Yes albums over all the other stuff I’ve been exploring.

So anyway, which 70s Yes album would you guys say is the next best step to take? The Yes Album? Tales from the Topographic Ocean? Going for the One?

You can't go wrong with The Yes Album or GftO.

Tales is awesome but put that nearer the end. It requires more patience.

Yeah, I started streaming Tales tonight and got through the first track alright, but the second one seemed to wander on forever without getting anywhere and I lost interest. It’s definitely one I’ll plan to explore later though. Also sampled some of The Yes Album, which I’m already somewhat familiar with.

But while kicking around looking at Yes stuff, Chris Squire’s Fish Out of Water popped up, and man am I loving the sound of this. I actually thought Hold Out Your Hand was a Yes song. Squire had a great voice. A bit like Jon Anderson, but also reminds me of Sting a lot. These songs sound great. Might be my next Yes related purchase.

[Zydar]

The Yes Album is in my "holy trinity" of Yes album (along with Fragile and Close To The Edge), so you can't really go wrong there. And then you can go to Drama, which is awesome too.

[BelichickFan]

I’ve kind of slowly and deliberately gotten into Yes’ catalog. For a long time I only ever had 90125, and then I finally got Fragile, followed relatively shortly by Relayer and then Close to the Edge, all of which I really enjoy. But as much as I enjoy all those albums, I have a hard time prioritizing new Yes albums over all the other stuff I’ve been exploring.

So anyway, which 70s Yes album would you guys say is the next best step to take? The Yes Album? Tales from the Topographic Ocean? Going for the One?

You can't go wrong with The Yes Album or GftO.

Tales is awesome but put that nearer the end. It requires more patience.

Yeah, I started streaming Tales tonight and got through the first track alright, but the second one seemed to wander on forever without getting anywhere and I lost interest. It’s definitely one I’ll plan to explore later though.

This is a quote from Rick Wakeman, about Tales, from the book "Yes Stories":

". . . while I think it sucks.  It could have been a sensational album if more thought went into it and if certain parts were thrown out . . . there are some very nice parts, but it's like wading through a cesspool to get to a water lily".

There are some parts I would never choose to listen to other than they're part of Tales so they're part of "the experience".

[KevShmev]

I agree with that.

It took me a long time to really appreciate Tales as a whole, but I like it quite a bit now. Tracks 2 and 3 are a mess and definitely could have been better with some trimming and editing, but when you listen to the whole album from start to finish, you just enjoy it all, warts and all. 

[Architeuthis]

My TFTO cd is still in mint condition after owning it for over twenty years. Not a scratch on it, it's been kept safe in its case after listening to it maybe once or twice..  Mayby I'll have to give it another chance and see if it still has warts, cesspools,  and lillies.

[BelichickFan]

My TFTO cd is still in mint condition after owning it for over twenty years. Not a scratch on it, it's been kept safe in its case after listening to it maybe once or twice..  Mayby I'll have to give it another chance and see if it still has warts, cesspools,  and lillies.

Well, Leaves of Green: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG0T-yYNT7U and from 17:00 on from Ritual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJzzBUKTFQQ are undoubtedly lilles.  I enjoy the whole thing but I get the other side.

[Lupton]

I'm definitely in a minority that LOVES the Remembering. The way it just takes its sweet time and is in no hurry. Squire's basswork in that first ten minutes is sublime. It's just so wonderfully stony and contemplative and then just when you think it's going to go on forever...BAM! "Don the cap and close your eyes imagine all the glorious challenge" the minstrel-y section slams in like waking up from a dream and it's nothing but solid ass kicking from there on out. That last build-up before the conclusion ("Rainbows, soft light") is pure musical bliss. One of my all time favorite Yes moments!

[DTA]

The Remembering is easily my favorite of the Tales songs. The meandering nature of the songs is my favorite part of the album experience, but I can see how others dislike it for that reason.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to do an edit of those songs that makes logical sense and feels natural.

[Orbert]

There are probably a lot of people who've made their own edits of Tales, and to them they were logical and felt right.  But I would never be able to listen to any fan edit without being conscious of where the cuts were, and that would always take me out of the experience.  But then, I'm one of those who doesn't any problem listening to it all the way through, having done so many times.

[ytserush]

Still kills me that SW didn’t get to do GFTO. But I guess I heard something about the original masters being either missing or partially damaged? I don’t remember which.

100% my opinion, and I'd like to add Drama. I would love to hear what he's make out of those two albums. Maybe he just doesn't like them. I heard he only remasters/remixes albums he personally likes (which makes sense)

I like Drama so much more than the previous two albums.  Would have been a killer follow up to Relayer.

[ytserush]

There are probably a lot of people who've made their own edits of Tales, and to them they were logical and felt right.  But I would never be able to listen to any fan edit without being conscious of where the cuts were, and that would always take me out of the experience.  But then, I'm one of those who doesn't any problem listening to it all the way through, having done so many times.

I enjoy it all too though I'm more of a fan of sides 3 and 4.  I don't dabble in much of it, but I always thought those fan things were hit or miss. It really depends on what is being edited and how it's done.  Those fan Abacab Suite cuts just seem so disjointed.

[Mladen]

Tales is actually the Yes album I return to most often. There are several albums I like more, but it's truly a gorgeous experience taking the time and putting Tales on.

[Zydar]

I've tried many times to get into Tales, but I don't know why it doesn't work for me - it's just impenetrable to my ears. I find nothing to latch onto.

[romdrums]

I've finally come around on Tales, but man, it was arduous work.  There are no doubt some great moments on it, but Side 3 really kills it for me.  Up until Leaves of Green, it really sounds to me like they are literally running out of ideas for backing up Steve Howe's guitar.  And, this album is where I really start to dislike Howe's guitar tone.

[Stadler]

The Revealing Science Of God is just... it might be my favorite 20+ track (certainly top three). 

[Architeuthis]

  And, this album is where I really start to dislike Howe's guitar tone.

That's always been my problem with Steve Howe. He's a great guitarist but his guitar tone has always been a bit thin and cardboard sounding. For example when he was with Asia,  his guitar solo on "Heat of the Moment"  is an absolute mess. It is executed very sloppily and the tone makes it even worse. I can't believe they settled for that take on a otherwise great song. 
Even in Yes, his tone just felt awkward at times but the music is the saving grace. His acoustic tones are excellent!
Alex Lifeson set the example for good electric guitar tone back in the day. I also got spoiled from Trevor Rabins rich tones singing with sustain.

[Mladen]

The Ancient is the song that made me fall in love with Steve Howe's guitar sound. No words can describe how magical it sounds to me.

[KevShmev]

The title track from Going for the One is one Yes song I find almost unlistenable because of how atrocious Howe's guitar tone is in that song.  It's not a particularly good song anyway, but Howe's guitar tone pushes it over the cliff.

[pg1067]

The title track from Going for the One is one Yes song I find almost unlistenable because of how atrocious Howe's guitar tone is in that song.  It's not a particularly good song anyway, but Howe's guitar tone pushes it over the cliff.

Finally, someone agrees with me (although keep in mind that he's entirely or almost entirely playing a steel guitar on the title track)!  Parallels is similar, and the live version on Yesshows is SO MUCH BETTER.  The album versions of both songs are so aggressively trebley (and not just the guitar tone).

[Lupton]

It could just be me but...sometimes I think you have to be really, really high to get where Howe is coming from. Not just his tone, but especially his phrasing.

"Aggressively trebley" is a great way to begin describing the mix on GftO. Add to that "no bottom end" + "tons of reverb" = a perfect shitstorm of unlistenability.  It's a testament to just how damn good the songs are on that album that anyone can even listen to it all (IMHO). I still really enjoy the music itself.

[Orbert]

I'm not going to go back through 73 pages, but the sound issues with Going For The One are pretty well known, and I think we've discussed them before.  Eddie Offord had been their engineer and producer since 1970, but was replaced by a guy named John Timperley, assisted by David Richards.  Yes did the production themselves, which was a first for them.

It's not in the Wiki for this album, but I know I've read that Eddie was actually replaced partway through the recording.  So some stuff was already recorded by Eddie, who had the habit of applying Dolby noise reduction.  Pretty standard back then, Dolby basically boosts the high end, then when "decoded" applies a complimentary de-boost to the high end, with the net effect of cutting noise.  What wasn't standard was that Eddie never labelled the tapes.  So according to one theory, the new guys taking over the recording and later mixing didn't realize that some of the stuff had had Dolby NR applied.  Listening to it now, it's almost painful how much high end some of the parts have.  But the master tapes have been lost, and what we're left with is a mix of tracks with and without Dolby, which is basically impossible to reverse engineer to deboost only the Dolby tracks.  Maybe if you could go back to the masters and (hopefully) figure out which ones have Dolby applied and which don't.  But no one can find the master tapes.

[Stadler]

I don't say this to argue, but to contrast.... I find some of the earlier Yes to be muddy (though it's improved a lot with the various remasters) and I LOVE Going For The One.  It's my favorite album ever.  I can't say I "love" the trebly, but it does fit with the rest of the instrumentation.   Remember, Wakeman was having a torrid affair with a church organ in Switzerland at the time.   

David Richards is no hack; he's got a pretty good track record with the later Queen records (A Kind Of Magic, Innuendo, The Miracle) and Bowie, too, if memory serves. 

[Orbert]

Going for the One is my favorite Yes album also, but that is for the songs themselves, and the arrangements, which are incredible.  There's nothing wrong with the St. Martins church organ sound, which is full and rich and you'd never guess that it was literally phoned in.  Same with the choir.  But when people complain about the trebly sound, especially Steve's guitar, I know what they mean and I sympathize.  I've been known to turn the treble down a bit when I listen to this album.

[pg1067]

I don't say this to argue, but to contrast.... I find some of the earlier Yes to be muddy (though it's improved a lot with the various remasters) and I LOVE Going For The One.  It's my favorite album ever.  I can't say I "love" the trebly, but it does fit with the rest of the instrumentation.   Remember, Wakeman was having a torrid affair with a church organ in Switzerland at the time.   

For me, the organ is only an issue on Parallels.  It's so harsh -- almost to the point of being unlistenable.  I spent a lot of quality time with Yesshows before ever buying TFTO, Relayer or GFTO.  I thought Parallels on Yesshows was superb.  Once I bought GFTO, I thought, "what the fuck?!"  When I consider how much I like GFTO or rank Yes albums, I sort of think about the live version of Parallels, so the album gets more credit than it probably deserves.  The interesting thing is that Awaken is very organ-heavy, but it works perfectly, and I wouldn't change a thing about it (I've also never heard a live version that I thought did the song justice, except when they played it in the round on the Union tour and maybe also the version with the symphony).

[romdrums]

It could just be me but...sometimes I think you have to be really, really high to get where Howe is coming from. Not just his tone, but especially his phrasing.

"Aggressively trebley" is a great way to begin describing the mix on GftO. Add to that "no bottom end" + "tons of reverb" = a perfect shitstorm of unlistenability.  It's a testament to just how damn good the songs are on that album that anyone can even listen to it all (IMHO). I still really enjoy the music itself.

Going back and looking at old videos on YouTube last night to see what kind of guitars Steve Howe was using at the time, and it looks like he went from his hollow body and semi hollow body guitars, like the ES-175 and ES-335, respectively, to a Les Paul with P90 pick-ups for Tales and then a Telecaster on Relayer and a Strat for the lead work on GFTO.  Les Pauls tend to have some fullness to their tones, but he was playing them through Fender Twin Reverbs, which combined with the bite inherent in the Strats and Teles, can make for an ear-piercing experience, and not in a good way. 

I think I've said this over in the Trevor Rabin appreciation thread, but I would rather hear Trevor Rabin play Steve Howe's parts than the other way around.  Trevor gets a wider range of tones, that to me, tend to be more pleasing to my ears.  He can get those twangy, bright, mid-to-late 70's Steve Howe tones, but then he also gets much more full sounding and heavier tones as well.  Funny that he plays primarily a Fender Strat, same as Steve Howe on a lot of GFTO, but his tone is much fuller and rounder.

[Architeuthis]

Trevor also uses his sig Alvarez guitars for many live applications, which sound awesome imo. He's had that same strat throughout his whole career. I'll take Rabin over Howe any day, even though they both are fantastic in Yes..

[romdrums]

Trevor also uses his sig Alvarez guitars for many live applications, which sound awesome imo. He's had that same strat throughout his whole career. I'll take Rabin over Howe any day, even though they both are fantastic in Yes..

For sure.  I love Howe's playing on the classic era.  His playing on The Yes Album through CTTE is impeccable, and I love what he does on Drama as well.