The Official Yes Thread

[Stadler]

Almost Like Love and Our Song are among the better Rabin songs imo and I also like Rhythm Of Love and Big Generator. The cheesy ones like Saving My Heart, Lift Me Up, Love Will Find A Way etc. are the ones I could do without.

I'll have to go back and look, but I know Love Will Find A Way is a top 20 song, and even if they didn't make it, Saving My Heart and Lift Me Up were both in consideration (not so much now, because I'm older, but for a long time I wanted Lift Me Up to be played at any wake for me when I passed.)

[Architeuthis]

Yeah those are all good songs,   I don't know how any of them could be considered cheesy.

[KevShmev]

I could see why some do not like Almost Like Love, with Anderson repeating "it's almost" 59 times near the end of the song, plus I am sure plenty of prog fans blew their gaskets over a Yes song having a prominent horn section, but it's a fun little catchy tune.  Not a standout, but I enjoy it when listening to Big Generator.

[Lupton]

I could see why some do not like Almost Like Love, with Anderson repeating "it's almost" 59 times near the end of the song, plus I am sure plenty of prog fans blew their gaskets over a Yes song having a prominent horn section, but it's a fun little catchy tune.  Not a standout, but I enjoy it when listening to Big Generator.

The tune is tolerable and somewhat decent. Wait! You mean those are supposed to be horns?     The horns would be alright, if they actually sounded like horns and not some shitty casio patch. Those super fake sounding horns are probably the worst thing in the song. For all I know they could be real, as there are probably production techniques that can make real horns sound that terrible. Should have tried to make them sound more like actual horns.

[oops: forgot to add IMO. Always important in Yes threads  ]

[SoundscapeMN]

Mind Drive?

I find it to be the best Yes track the last 38 years.

Along similar lines, "Open" from Jon Anderson is probably the best thing he or Yes have done since, which is rarely if ever talked about which is also a huge facepalm

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[DTA]

The title track for Open Your Eyes is a great song. The rest of the album is iffy but that one is definitely a standout for post-Drama Yes.

[Mladen]

I think the Rabin era albums are very solid, with the exception of Union, which is an enormous mess to me. Talk is my favorite of the bunch. However, if there is a streak of post-Drama Yes albums worth checking out, it's The Ladder - Magnification - Fly from here. I know there's a ten year gap between two of them, but still.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Yes songs with Rabin, ranked:

#1. The More We Live (Let Go)
#2. The Miracle Of Life
#3. Real Love
#4. Lift Me Up
#5. Hearts
#6. The Calling
#7. I Am Waiting
#8. Changes
#9. I'm Running
10. Owner Of A Lonely Heart

11. Endless Dream
12. Where Will You Be
13. Shoot High, Aim Low
14. Leave It
15. Cinema
16. Rhythm Of Love
17. Saving My Heart
18. Our Song
19. Holy Lamb
20. Final Eyes

21. Hold On
22. Walls
23. It Can Happen
24. Love Will Find A Way
25. State Of Play
26. City Of Love
27. Almost Like Love
28. Big Generator

[KevShmev]

Hmmm, I never thought much of The More We Live (Let Go); I will have to give it a fresh spin.

It is never easy to do this, but I'd say my 10 favorite songs of the Rabin era are:

1. Endless Dream
2. Changes
3. Leave It (one of the most amazing songs ever from a vocal harmonies standpoint)
4. The Calling
5. Hearts
6. I Am Waiting
7. Love Will Find a Way
8. Real Love
9. Owner of a Lonely Heart
10. Shoot High Aim Low

Even though it only has two of the 10 spots there, I am still a big fan of Big Generator.

[KevShmev]

The title track for Open Your Eyes is a great song. The rest of the album is iffy but that one is definitely a standout for post-Drama Yes.

I like the title track from Open Your Eyes, but I don't love it.  I think Fortune Seller has held up as the one standout from that record.  It has just the right amount of weirdness to be great.

[Lupton]

So can someone please enlighten me. What's all the hatred for the title song Big Generator? It's not just I Don't not Do not things post. I've seen hate for this song expressed unanimously. Why do people hate it? It's probably in the top 10* of all the Rabin tunes. Is it the psuedo metal guitar riff? Is this a life warning clue that I should be wary of?...To indicate my own horrible penchant for musical taste? I  never saw anything "wrong" with it. Even when I was in my youthful proggy Yes discovery phase. I still think this is one of the more interesting almost Yes-like Rabin period tunes. And to this day I still like it. I love the way the low note in the "heavy" guitar harmonizes with Squire's bass. The OTT production style of this era really serves this tune too. Am I just too stupid? Or maybe nostalgic? It's a good song in my book.

*if my brain actually rated things in numeric order (which it doesn't)

[edit: PRAISE O PRAISE THIS ANTHEM GENERATOR!]

[Kwyjibo]

I've written a long and detailed answer what I think about it, but it got eaten by the internet, so in short: I like Big Generator but it all comes down to different tastes.

[KevShmev]

So can someone please enlighten me. What's all the hatred for the title song Big Generator? It's not just I Don't not Do not things post. I've seen hate for this song expressed unanimously. Why do people hate it? It's probably in the top 10* of all the Rabin tunes. Is it the psuedo metal guitar riff? Is this a life warning clue that I should be wary of?...To indicate my own horrible penchant for musical taste? I  never saw anything "wrong" with it. Even when I was in my youthful proggy Yes discovery phase. I still think this is one of the more interesting almost Yes-like Rabin period tunes. And to this day I still like it. I love the way the low note in the "heavy" guitar harmonizes with Squire's bass. The OTT production style of this era really serves this tune too. Am I just too stupid? Or maybe nostalgic? It's a good song in my book.

*if my brain actually rated things in numeric order (which it doesn't)

[edit: PRAISE O PRAISE THIS ANTHEM GENERATOR!]

I suspect, and this is just a theory, that many old school Yes fans do not care for that heavy riff, and I would bet money that most of them hate those jarring keyboard leads.  Ya know, the ones that sort of sound like horn sections.  The effect is similar to the ones we heard in Owner of a Lonely Heart.  I can see many not liking that, and while I like the song, the hook isn't quite there like it is in many other Rabin-era Yes tunes.

[Stadler]

Is there a way of searching one specific thread for YOUR posts?   This is 72 pages, and I'm 99% sure I posted my top 20 Yes songs, and I'm loathe to contradict that, but I'll post my top Rabin tunes with the caveat that there might not be continuity:

1. Lift Me Up
2. Love Will Find A Way
3. Shoot High, Aim Low
4. Hearts
5. Owner Of A Lonely Heart
6. The Calling
7. Saving My Heart
8. Final Eyes
9. Miracle Of Life
10. Changes
11. Cinema
12. Walls
13. Endless Dream
14. Our Song
15. Real Love
16. Holy Lamb
17. Leave It
18. I Am Waiting
19. It Can Happen
20. Hold On
21. State Of Play
22. Almost Like Love
23. The More We Live...
24. Where Will You Be
25. Rhythm Of Love
26. City Of Love
27. I'm Running
28. Big Generator


This is a forced ranking.  From, maybe, 10 to 20 can be thrown into a hat and reshuffled into almost any order. "Changes" is always going to be higher than "Hold On", but there are times when "Leave It" just hits the spot (I love the a cappella version).   "Big Penetrator" (the name is a sign of mild disrespect) is so low just because it's, to me, too disjointed.   I don't mind the "rough guitar", I don't mind the "horns", but it's just not a well-written song to me, and while I don't listen to Jon Anderson's words for any real world insight, I think his best lyrics communicate a truth and an understanding.    "Going For The One" makes zero sense on paper, but it SPEAKS to me. "Big Generator" does not, and even with Jon's explanation (that we are all a part of the earth, all a voice for the earth). 

[Lupton]

I've written a long and detailed answer what I think about it, but it got eaten by the internet, so in short: I like Big Generator but it all comes down to different tastes.

Ah that's a shame. I would have enjoyed reading that. It's nice to know that some people like it. But then again I don't really consider ANY Rabin era Yes tune worth listening to over anything from the run of albums The Yes Album-Going For The Run. While his contributions to the band are greatness, it's all fairly inferior to classic Yes. AOR by numbers. Hell, give me The Ancient any day over anything on anyone's top # Rabin lists.  A matter of taste indeed.

[KevShmev]

"AOR by numbers"...what does that even mean?  I know some like calling certain kinds of late 70's/early 80's rock AOR (Album Oriented Rock) as if it supposed to be a criticism of some sort, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  I guess bands were supposed to feel bad because their music ... *gasp* ... appealed to the masses.

Also, I will take almost every song from the three full Rabin albums over The Ancient (which I like within the context of the record, but it's a mess overall, even with the stellar Leaves of Green section near the end). 

[Kwyjibo]

Stadler, this is specifically not directed at you, but seeing your ranking, I know a lot of people, that criticize Rabin-Yes for not being proggy enough and too mainstream, and then list the most mainstream and least proggy songs as their favorites. 

And as I said, I don't have a definite ranking, but Lift Me Up and Love Will Find A Way would be way down that list, I'm Running on the other hand would at least be in the top 5.

[KevShmev]

I'm Running just missed my top 10 from the Rabin era that I listed above, and might have been in the top 10 before, as I am sure I did a similar-type list before in this thread, but the spots these songs are in are ever-changing.

Ultimately, a good song is a good song, no matter how proggy, mainstream or whatever it is.  It's best to not worry about the labels and just enjoy the tunes you like.

[Lupton]

"AOR by numbers"...what does that even mean?  I know some like calling certain kinds of late 70's/early 80's rock AOR (Album Oriented Rock) as if it supposed to be a criticism of some sort, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.  I guess bands were supposed to feel bad because their music ... *gasp* ... appealed to the masses.

Also, I will take almost every song from the three full Rabin albums over The Ancient (which I like within the context of the record, but it's a mess overall, even with the stellar Leaves of Green section near the end). 

  Yeah I guess it doesn't really mean anything except a negative connotation. To attempt a more detailed explanation: the verses of Changes, most of Walls, Lift Me Up, Love Will Find A Way, etc.. all sound like fairly generic standard early 80's radio tunes (like you'd hear in the credits of many 80's films) filled will common melodic and lyrical cliches. They don't sound like the work of someone who has a unique musical vision, rather that of a musical jobsmith tasked with the challenge of writing songs that are specifically (and perhaps even cynically) well crafted along the lines what are ('were' by the 90s) currently popular musical trends. Doesn't necessarily always equate with "bad" music, but it can certainly be offputting when in the mood for a more sincere or unique musical expression. Other times it's just enjoyable to turn off the brain and enjoy the musical equivalent of candy or popcorn.

I'm of the opinion that Rabin did good solid work with this approach, hence my praise for his skills. I do actually enjoy his Yes contributions. But they're a tiny patch on the previous band's completely one of a kind and irreplaceable sound.

[edit: This entire post is the opinion of the poster. No facts or empirical evidence were presented, only subjective viewpoints]

[Stadler]

Stadler, this is specifically not directed at you, but seeing your ranking, I know a lot of people, that criticize Rabin-Yes for not being proggy enough and too mainstream, and then list the most mainstream and least proggy songs as their favorites. 

And as I said, I don't have a definite ranking, but Lift Me Up and Love Will Find A Way would be way down that list, I'm Running on the other hand would at least be in the top 5.

That's actually never been my complaint.   I don't get the notion of "proggy"; it's good or it isn't (I should say, "I either like it or I don't").    Reminds me of when Flying Colors was mooted and Mike was teasing people with the songs/lengths, and there were a LOT of people that IMMEDIATELY said - without hearing them - that Blue Ocean and Infinite Fire were going to be "the best" because they were the longest.  Well album out and for me that's my favorite FC album and neither of those two songs are even in the top five of favorites.

With Yes, it was never about length for me; it was about the playing and the writing.   Wonderous Stories is still one of my favorite tunes in their catalogue. 

[Kwyjibo]

I know, that's why I said it wasn't directed at you.

But Blue Ocean and Infinite Fire are top 5, so there's that. 

[Architeuthis]

Even though there are only three full length Rabin-era albums, he had a huge commercial impact on the band especially 90125 and Big Generator. TALK is a very underrated album and is my personal favorite (despite the weird sound of the kick drum, lol).
 The song "Real Love" rarely gets talked about, I love the originality and weirdness of that song the way of flows. Trevors guitar solo is a stand out on this track too!
  Endless Dream is just a masterpiece, which easily rivals Awaken imo. 

[KevShmev]

Even though there are only three full length Rabin-era albums, he had a huge commercial impact on the band especially 90125 and Big Generator. TALK is a very underrated album and is my personal favorite (despite the weird sound of the kick drum, lol).
 The song "Real Love" rarely gets talked about, I love the originality and weirdness of that song the way of flows. Trevors guitar solo is a stand out on this track too!
  Endless Dream is just a masterpiece, which easily rivals Awaken imo. 

This is where I chime in that Awaken is not only not as great as Endless Dream, but that many hardcore Yes fans overrated it big time.  It's a good tune, and has that warm proggy Yes vibe that you can't help but like, but it just doesn't come together to be truly great like many of their other long epics do.

  To attempt a more detailed explanation: the verses of Changes, most of Walls, Lift Me Up, Love Will Find A Way, etc.. all sound like fairly generic standard early 80's radio tunes (like you'd hear in the credits of many 80's films) filled will common melodic and lyrical cliches. They don't sound like the work of someone who has a unique musical vision, rather that of a musical jobsmith tasked with the challenge of writing songs that are specifically (and perhaps even cynically) well crafted along the lines what are ('were' by the 90s) currently popular musical trends. Doesn't necessarily always equate with "bad" music, but it can certainly be offputting when in the mood for a more sincere or unique musical expression. Other times it's just enjoyable to turn off the brain and enjoy the musical equivalent of candy or popcorn.

I'm of the opinion that Rabin did good solid work with this approach, hence my praise for his skills. I do actually enjoy his Yes contributions. But they're a tiny patch on the previous band's completely one of a kind and irreplaceable sound.

But see, that's the beauty of Yes. There have been so many member changes throughout their entire history that it is impossible to point to a single album and say, "That is what Yes should always sound like."  What each Yes album sounds like is a reflection of which members were on that particular album and who did the writing.  Rabin's approach was obviously more American and straight forward with very much a rock sensibility, rather than the European prog approach of most of their work prior to his arrival, hence the differences in style and sound.

[Lupton]

But see, that's the beauty of Yes. There have been so many member changes throughout their entire history that it is impossible to point to a single album and say, "That is what Yes should always sound like."  What each Yes album sounds like is a reflection of which members were on that particular album and who did the writing.  Rabin's approach was obviously more American and straight forward with very much a rock sensibility, rather than the European prog approach of most of their work prior to his arrival, hence the differences in style and sound.

I can certainly agree with that. I think the band did the best thing they could at the time outside of simply breaking up. The untouchable majesty of the earlier Yes sound was already over, dead and buried even before Rabin came on the scene. I always felt Squire and White hijacked Rabin's career in a sense and rode his "up and coming" coattails. A part of me will always be curious how the band would have evolved had they continued under the moniker Cinema. I doubt the band would have felt any pressure going forward to write music with more prominent "Yes stamps" had that been the case. OTOH would Owner have been the big hit that it was under a different band name? Would it have gotten the same level of promotion and attention? I'm guessing it would have, as most people listening to the radio would not have known or cared who the song was by. Just simply that it was an infectiously catchy well put together pop song. Without the Yes "baggage", I think Rabin would have had a freer hand going forward and the next album would have sounded like less of a trainwreck of ideals. Although I'm a big fan of this conflict within the music. Makes it much more interesting. Probably explains why Big Generator is my favorite Rabin era album.

[Lupton]

Regarding Big Generator. You've got Anderson on one hand trying to turn everything into this deep, serious spiritual thing and Rabin on the other sticking to his boy meets girl cliched lyrical guns. Good example: "Shoot High Aim Low" Anderson is singing about the Milagro Bean Field conflict (or somesuch thing) and Rabin comes in "In the blue sedan we couldn't get much further" . He's just out cruising around the town with his girl (standard AOR trope ) and Anderson is trying to make some sort of meaningful statement on the human condition. It's fairly schizo, but it works.

It's great the way the end result turned out. Good song. Actually sort of hated it the first time I heard it. Took ages for it to grow on me.

[KevShmev]

Like you, I have no problem with Big Generator, and I've never noticed these clash of ideas or conflict within the music, but if it's there, it works regardless.

As for them being Yes instead Cinema, it worked out great for all involved.  The Yes name was resurrected and kept in the public's consciousness throughout the 80's and into the 90's, and Trevor Rabin had far more success with Yes than he would have on his own, and I am someone who likes some of his early solo albums, although they are a little spotty.  The debut and Face to Face both have some really good songs, and then his late 80's album, Can't Look Away, is pretty darn good.

[DTA]

The title track for Open Your Eyes is a great song. The rest of the album is iffy but that one is definitely a standout for post-Drama Yes.

I like the title track from Open Your Eyes, but I don't love it.  I think Fortune Seller has held up as the one standout from that record.  It has just the right amount of weirdness to be great.

Fortune Seller is cool, I always forget about that one. No Way We can Lose is a secret favorite. I adore that song and I'm pretty sure I'm the only one. I also like The Solution quite a bit, and the first part of Wonderlove is great but then it Miracle Of Lifes itself into something quite bland which is my biggest complaint of Rabin's era. Somehow, Someday is pretty funny in the sense that Alan White sounds like he has no idea what the hell he's doing  and is struggling to stay focused but I quite like the plodding vibe of the song otherwise.

[KevShmev]

I liked most of Open Your Eyes when it was first out, even though some of the songs had this kind of weirdness in the melodies, almost like they did't quite nail it, but it still sorta worked.  However, it hasn't aged overly well for me.

And since we did favorite songs of the Rabin era, how about favorites of (let's call it) the original prog era (1969-1980)?  I won't include solo pieces like Mood for a Day and Clap.

Top 20 (1969-1980):
1. Starship Trooper
2. The Gates of Delirium
3. And You and I
4. Roundabout
5. Yours Is No Disgrace
6. Siberian Khatru
7. I've Seen All Good People
8. Close to the Edge
9. Heart of the Sunrise
10. South Side of the Sky
11. Turn of the Century
12. Long Distance Runaround
13. Ritual
14. Perpetual Change
15. Time and a Word
16. To Be Over
17. Machine Messiah
18. Astral Traveler
19. The Revealing Science of God
20. Does It Really Happen?

[IDontNotDoThings]

The title track for Open Your Eyes is a great song. The rest of the album is iffy but that one is definitely a standout for post-Drama Yes.

I like the title track from Open Your Eyes, but I don't love it.  I think Fortune Seller has held up as the one standout from that record.  It has just the right amount of weirdness to be great.

Fortune Seller is cool, I always forget about that one. No Way We can Lose is a secret favorite. I adore that song and I'm pretty sure I'm the only one. I also like The Solution quite a bit, and the first part of Wonderlove is great but then it Miracle Of Lifes itself into something quite bland which is my biggest complaint of Rabin's era. Somehow, Someday is pretty funny in the sense that Alan White sounds like he has no idea what the hell he's doing  and is struggling to stay focused but I quite like the plodding vibe of the song otherwise.

You aren't 


My OYE Ranking:
(songs I actually like)
#1. Open Your Eyes
#2. No Way We Can Lose
#3. New State Of Mind
#4. Man In The Moon

(songs I dislike)
#5. From The Balcony
#6. Somehow, Someday
#7. The Solution
#8. Universal Garden

(songs I really dislike)
#9. Wonderlove
10. Fortune Seller
11. Loveshine

[DTA]

The title track for Open Your Eyes is a great song. The rest of the album is iffy but that one is definitely a standout for post-Drama Yes.

I like the title track from Open Your Eyes, but I don't love it.  I think Fortune Seller has held up as the one standout from that record.  It has just the right amount of weirdness to be great.

Fortune Seller is cool, I always forget about that one. No Way We can Lose is a secret favorite. I adore that song and I'm pretty sure I'm the only one. I also like The Solution quite a bit, and the first part of Wonderlove is great but then it Miracle Of Lifes itself into something quite bland which is my biggest complaint of Rabin's era. Somehow, Someday is pretty funny in the sense that Alan White sounds like he has no idea what the hell he's doing  and is struggling to stay focused but I quite like the plodding vibe of the song otherwise.

You aren't 


My OYE Ranking:
(songs I actually like)

#4. Man In The Moon

How did I forget this nightmare existed? Glad someone likes it!

[DTA]

My favorites of the prog era:

1. The Gates Of Delirium
2. The Remembering
3. Turn Of The Century
4. To Be Over
5. Close To The Edge
6. Machine Messiah
7. Going For The One
8. Does It Really Happen?
9. South Side Of The Sky
10. Run Through The Light

I never rated The Yes Album & Fragile as high as others and am always surprised when I see something like Starship Trooper rated higher than Turn Of The Century or whatever.

My Rabin ranking is:

1. Love Will Find A Way
2. The Calling
3. Endless Dream
4. I Am Waiting
5. I'm Running
6. Real Love
7. Hearts
8. Big Generator
9. Final Eyes
10. Leave It

[romdrums]

Ooh, since we're doing rankings:

1969-1980:

1.Close to the Edge
2.The Gates of Delirium
3.Awaken
4.And You And I
5.South Side of the Sky
6.Turn of the Century
7.Siberian Khatru
8.Heart of the Sunrise
9.Perpetual Change
10.Wondrous Stories

1983-1994:

1. I'm Running
2. Endless Dream
3. Final Eyes
4. Changes
5. Hearts
6. The More We Live-Let Go
7. Shoot High Aim Low
8. Leave It
9. Real Love
10. Cinema

[Stadler]

Regarding Big Generator. You've got Anderson on one hand trying to turn everything into this deep, serious spiritual thing and Rabin on the other sticking to his boy meets girl cliched lyrical guns. Good example: "Shoot High Aim Low" Anderson is singing about the Milagro Bean Field conflict (or somesuch thing) and Rabin comes in "In the blue sedan we couldn't get much further" . He's just out cruising around the town with his girl (standard AOR trope ) and Anderson is trying to make some sort of meaningful statement on the human condition. It's fairly schizo, but it works.

It's great the way the end result turned out. Good song. Actually sort of hated it the first time I heard it. Took ages for it to grow on me.

I never once ever looked at the Rabin years that way.  Well, with one exception: the lyric "Here is my soul, I eat at chez nous" is glaringly dumb to me. 

As for SH,AL, it might be schizo, but it's certainly not about what you're claiming.  It's about war in general, Nicaragua in particular, and Anderson and Rabin are providing contrast between the harsh realities of war and the more idealistic way things could be.   Anderson introduced the song once by saying he was singing about "real time" and Rabin is singing about "dream time".

Could be bullshit, I grant you. But there it is.

[Stadler]

Ive asked, but I don't know if anyone answered: is there a way of searching one's posts in a given thread?  Or do you have to manually go through them?  I did a Yes Top 20, but I can't find it.

[Lupton]

It's about war in general, Nicaragua in particular, and Anderson and Rabin are providing contrast between the harsh realities of war and the more idealistic way things could be.

Yes. That's the one. I remember reading somewhere ages ago that the "blue fields" referred to a specific conflict. Thanks for the correction.