2016 NFL THREAD - Super Bowl 51 - Patriots' Day: V - Screw Goodell

[cramx3]

I'm not Pats fan, but got to admit I started rooting for them in the 4th quarter.  As much as it's easy to dislike them for being so successful, it was also really easy to start rooting for them in that comeback. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

I'm no Tom Brady fan by any means and really just a casual Football fan at best. But if you're strictly looking at stats, wins, MVPs etc then there is no factual argument that can remove him from being the Best QB ever. If you're introducing intangibles and the 'era' arguments....then you can turn it into a conversation, but even then he's atop the heap of great QB's.

The "era" factor is HUGE, and shouldn't be overlooked. The QBs of today are simply playing a different game than the QBs of yesteryear.

[RoeDent]

For me there is no question that Brady is the greatest ever, after last night. For one player to win FIVE championships, when the most that a team has ever won is 6. And championships are the one thing that every coach, every quarterback, every player trains for, the ultimate goal that everyone is striving towards. Makes the whole "greatest...ever" debate a lot easier when you base it purely on stats. They don't lie. They are objective. No one can argue against cold hard stats.

[King Postwhore]

but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

I'm no Tom Brady fan by any means and really just a casual Football fan at best. But if you're strictly looking at stats, wins, MVPs etc then there is no factual argument that can remove him from being the Best QB ever. If you're introducing intangibles and the 'era' arguments....then you can turn it into a conversation, but even then he's atop the heap of great QB's.

The "era" factor is HUGE, and shouldn't be overlooked. The QBs of today are simply playing a different game than the QBs of yesteryear.

You could add though from this era with free agency where other teams did not have to deal with the constant change favors the new age QB's. 

It's so hard to really nail down eras.

[Stadler]

So many good points have been made. It was just a great game, and it was awesome being able to watch history. It solidifies both Belichick as the greatest coach ever to this point and Brady as the greatest QB....there really is no argument that can be made to disprove that.

I'm with Belichick being the best coach without question..... but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

There's always been a conversation with Montana, but last night Brady demonstrated the very best quality Joe had which was amazing poise under tremendous pressure. I think the conversation is over.

I know this is sort of a bullshit argument, but I think you have to have played sports to understand how good Brady is.  The mental toughness to not only overcome your teams mistakes, but your own (he overthrew Edelman badly on one early play), AND overcome the pressure of a rush that you didn't really see all season long, and overcome the physical punishment of being sacked by a 370-lb. lineman, AND overcome the psychological mountain of a 28-3 score with less than half the game to play, AND overcome the notion of accomplishing not one, not two, but THREE things that no one had ever done before, AND overcome the largest TV audience for any single game in any single year, AND overcome the pressure of being the greatest ever, AND overcoming the pressure of the fallout from the suspension, then to ACTUALLY DO IT - perform at a higher level yourself, and get those around you to play at a higher level - is beyond words.   

How many of you at work say at 4:45, "ah fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow".  Or are at work and say "Well, I would have finished that, but I was waiting for Hokum to finish his piece".  Or say "Well, I would have finished that, but my computer is giving me grief...".   Any of 1,000 excuses.     Brady made none of them, and in real time, with a finite amount of time to do it in, changed that entire game around. 

BEST EVER.

[tofee35]

So many good points have been made. It was just a great game, and it was awesome being able to watch history. It solidifies both Belichick as the greatest coach ever to this point and Brady as the greatest QB....there really is no argument that can be made to disprove that.

I'm with Belichick being the best coach without question..... but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

There's always been a conversation with Montana, but last night Brady demonstrated the very best quality Joe had which was amazing poise under tremendous pressure. I think the conversation is over.

I know this is sort of a bullshit argument, but I think you have to have played sports to understand how good Brady is.  The mental toughness to not only overcome your teams mistakes, but your own (he overthrew Edelman badly on one early play), AND overcome the pressure of a rush that you didn't really see all season long, and overcome the physical punishment of being sacked by a 370-lb. lineman, AND overcome the psychological mountain of a 28-3 score with less than half the game to play, AND overcome the notion of accomplishing not one, not two, but THREE things that no one had ever done before, AND overcome the largest TV audience for any single game in any single year, AND overcome the pressure of being the greatest ever, AND overcoming the pressure of the fallout from the suspension, then to ACTUALLY DO IT - perform at a higher level yourself, and get those around you to play at a higher level - is beyond words.   

How many of you at work say at 4:45, "ah fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow".  Or are at work and say "Well, I would have finished that, but I was waiting for Hokum to finish his piece".  Or say "Well, I would have finished that, but my computer is giving me grief...".   Any of 1,000 excuses.     Brady made none of them, and in real time, with a finite amount of time to do it in, changed that entire game around. 

BEST EVER.

Amen.

[RoeDent]

I'm still trying to comprehend what I saw last night. Even though it was well into the small hours here, I was completely captivated and still wide awake when the game finished at c. 3:30am. It was just gripping entertainment. Atlanta's offense in the 2nd quarter was beautiful to watch. And everything just went wrong for New England. They'd get a break (eg. the touchdown), then immediately lose any momentum (missed XP, then botched offside kick). But the way they came back was just mindblowing. A performance for the ages. I wanted Atlanta to win at the beginning, but by the end, I didn't even care. New England thoroughly deserved that championship and every plaudit coming their way atm.

A privilege to watch, and so so worth staying up, and any grogginess I've felt through Monday after 5 hours' sleep. Roll on September, when we do this wonderful thing again!

[Cool Chris]

Not sure if it has been mentioned here, but I liked Rob Riggle's song on the pregame show, celebrating all the "teams with low rankings." That was more entertaining than anything else on the pregame, or any commercial for that matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKwSYPKCBoE

[KevShmev]

Also, something that sometimes gets missed in the excitement is that those fourth quarter comebacks against Seattle and Atlanta can't happen without the D continually making stops. It's still a team game.

Yep, NE's D should get a lot of props.  Despite Ryan having a great YPA and the Falcons having a high YPC running the ball, they held the highest scoring offense to 21 points and 1 for 8 on 3rd down.  And the Falcons TD drives were all fast, so the Falcons D had no rest all night.  The inability of Atlanta's offense to sustain drives killed their D in the end.  When NE won the coin flip in OT, I texted to everyone I was talking to about the game, "It's over; NE will score a TD; Atlanta's D has nothing left."

And I agree with Kev, Matt Ryan will never make it back to a SB, this was his shot.

Interesting note: the last QB to lose the SB in his first appearance and then make it back was...Jim Kelly (in 1991).  Crazy.

Kraft stuck it to Goodell?  That's unfortunate.  Kraft has always been a classy guy, and I figured he would take the high road there instead of being a gloating knucklehead, but he was probably drunk again.

Certainly not like two weeks ago, but he wasn't a shining beacon of sobriety, either. And he wasn't a dick about it. He basically just said that he had thought two years ago was the sweetest of his SB victories, but after everything they went through, "and everybody knows what we went through," this one's better. And the crowd was far more hostile than any of the Patriots. That was one helluva chorus of boos Roger got.

I watched that when I got home a bit ago (I had it all DVR'd).  I thought it was interesting that when Kraft first started talking, Goodell had a prolonged conversation with Belichick right behind them that looked really friendly.  Belichick was even smiling and laughing at times. 

For as good as the Pats were in the second half the Falcons were that bad. For them not to have expected Belichick not to make adjustments and continue with the same game plan was their downfall. They needed to have (2) plans prepared to go....Again, the Pats earned that victory 100% but that doesn't eliminate the fact that the Falcons choked as well. Execution wise and especially coaching they were outmatched.

They absolutely did NOT "choke."  They got outplayed and had some things go wrong at the end.  Give credit where it is due--to both teams.  Calling it a choke is either laziness, dishonesty, or lack of understanding the game.

I'll admit that I know little about football other than liking to watch it, but I still believe there was quite a bit of butt puckering and tense worry in the players on Atlanta once the Pats started making it a game...it was obvious in the lack of execution in the series not only when Ryan was sacked and fumbled but the series that they were driven out of FG range.

Certainly credit goes to the Pats players and coaches...absolutely. But Atlanta's lack of execution in both those areas can be described as a manner of choking due to having to face the pressure of the mounting comeback.

You are correct.  It was both an epic comeback and an epic choke.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.

There's always been a conversation with Montana, but last night Brady demonstrated the very best quality Joe had which was amazing poise under tremendous pressure. I think the conversation is over.

Eh, to me, Montana is a distant 3rd behind Brady and Manning.  Many get stuck on Montana's 4 rings, while ignoring the fact that Peyton annihilates him everywhere else. Rings matter, but they don't mean everything.

I know this is sort of a bullshit argument, but I think you have to have played sports to understand how good Brady is.  The mental toughness to not only overcome your teams mistakes, but your own (he overthrew Edelman badly on one early play), AND overcome the pressure of a rush that you didn't really see all season long, and overcome the physical punishment of being sacked by a 370-lb. lineman, AND overcome the psychological mountain of a 28-3 score with less than half the game to play, AND overcome the notion of accomplishing not one, not two, but THREE things that no one had ever done before, AND overcome the largest TV audience for any single game in any single year, AND overcome the pressure of being the greatest ever, AND overcoming the pressure of the fallout from the suspension, then to ACTUALLY DO IT - perform at a higher level yourself, and get those around you to play at a higher level - is beyond words.   

How many of you at work say at 4:45, "ah fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow".  Or are at work and say "Well, I would have finished that, but I was waiting for Hokum to finish his piece".  Or say "Well, I would have finished that, but my computer is giving me grief...".   Any of 1,000 excuses.     Brady made none of them, and in real time, with a finite amount of time to do it in, changed that entire game around. 

BEST EVER.

This kind of worship is fun to read, but let's get real.  Brady did not make the comeback all by himself.  It was a team comeback.  One man cannot bring a 53-man football team back from a 25-point deficit.  I think Brady is now the greatest ever, but let's pump the brakes on the "he can move mountains all by himself" analogies.

[King Postwhore]

Let me leave you guys with this.

[DragonAttack]

^
Touche'

Well, I've got two Raven SB hats (only Pats have more, Steelers / Giants match this century) and a couple of Red Wing Cup hats....

My last year in Michigan, and that scrawny kid led the Wolverines to the Orange Bowl win.  So, I cannot hate, just always respect and admire.

well played )

[TAC]

Let me leave you guys with this.

You're gonna leave us with 1970's curtains?

[KevShmev]

Let me leave you guys with this.

Nice.  The one furthest to the right is the best looking one.  And it's too bad none of them have their old logo, which is still one of the most bad ass logos any sports team has ever had.

[King Postwhore]

That's the newest one.   They still sell the Pat Patriot logo on hats.  I have a few myself.

[El Barto]

Nice.  The one furthest to the right is the best looking one.  And it's too bad none of them have their old logo, which is still one of the most bad ass logos any sports team has ever had.

That's actually my everyday cap at the moment. You don't find them in stores but any shop will order them.

And by all accounts Brady, Belichick and Goodell were all very pleasant to each other. At the podium he congratulated him and complimented him for the "amazing game," and this morning for the MVP thing they had a friendly handshake after the formalities were done. I doubt he's invited over for Thanksgiving or anything, but they all behaved like decent folk, as expected. While Kraft hinted at the unpleasantness,  he wasn't a dick about it. It did seem like Roger GTFO as soon as he saw where Bob was going, though.

[King Postwhore]

They all played it well.  Let's just remember Goodell is the lackey for the owners.   I'd love to make the money he makes as a shield for the jealous, rich, petty owners.

[Cable]

I know this is sort of a bullshit argument, but I think you have to have played sports to understand how good Brady is.  The mental toughness to not only overcome your teams mistakes, but your own (he overthrew Edelman badly on one early play), AND overcome the pressure of a rush that you didn't really see all season long, and overcome the physical punishment of being sacked by a 370-lb. lineman, AND overcome the psychological mountain of a 28-3 score with less than half the game to play, AND overcome the notion of accomplishing not one, not two, but THREE things that no one had ever done before, AND overcome the largest TV audience for any single game in any single year, AND overcome the pressure of being the greatest ever, AND overcoming the pressure of the fallout from the suspension, then to ACTUALLY DO IT - perform at a higher level yourself, and get those around you to play at a higher level - is beyond words.   

How many of you at work say at 4:45, "ah fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow".  Or are at work and say "Well, I would have finished that, but I was waiting for Hokum to finish his piece".  Or say "Well, I would have finished that, but my computer is giving me grief...".   Any of 1,000 excuses.     Brady made none of them, and in real time, with a finite amount of time to do it in, changed that entire game around. 

BEST EVER.

This kind of worship is fun to read, but let's get real.  Brady did not make the comeback all by himself.  It was a team comeback.  One man cannot bring a 53-man football team back from a 25-point deficit.  I think Brady is now the greatest ever, but let's pump the brakes on the "he can move mountains all by himself" analogies.

Agreed Kev. The defense adjusted and got timely pressure, the o-line adjusted, different WRs got involved, and no more TOs. And even with all of that, Gostkowski and/or Allen could have made more costly errors that would have sealed it for ATL.

I get where you are going Stadler with Brady and his preparation. He likely prepares so much that he can be more relaxed, and focus on just playing. Anyone focusing on all those details would be crushed. So the one play at a time cliche. I think a better analogy would be a surgical or ER team, or maybe even musicians. A project for a client, a piece of software, or a study can have tons of hours dumped into it especially near a deadline. The surgical team must act right now, and not mess up to the best of their ability. Same with a musician- no more cramming practice in when it's show time. Now if we talk about the presentation of a project for a client, a software show, or a symposium on findings. That is more comparable to Brady and his team in that moment. 

[DragonAttack]

The decisions by the Falcon coaching staff were FAR worse than what people blame Carroll and Seattle for two years ago.  THAT was a spectacular play by the NE DB.  This, ....this,..... was a bunch of clusterflucker playcalls that led to them punting, and putting the game on the line in the hands of 'The Master'.

Let's not get crazy. Seattle throwing in that spot was the single worst play call in Super Bowl history, if not in the history of professional sports.

Crazy?  Sorry, but, no.  It is my opinion, and simply differs.  If Butler doesn’t hold onto that pass for the INT, Seattle still has 3rd and goal at the one.  And, I have heard, and read, and totally understand why the Seahawks did what they did at the time.  As to Butler:  somehow, the kid held onto the ball after he was drilled, on a play NE had schooled him over and over on in their practice squad games and through their SB pregame setups.  I've seen the backdrop of THAT PLAY.  So, I don’t think the call was the craziest.  Against another team, it succeeds. Or....it's incomplete, and 3rd down still awaits.

As to this SB……
Atlanta could have simply run two more plays, up the middle, or wide left or right, made NE burn their TOs, kicked a FG from inside of 45 yards, and been up by 11 with under three left and no timeouts.  What they did after second down were TWO of the most boneheaded calls, back to back.  (oh, and I’m sure John Harbaugh bashers would be raking him at the coals had he made THOSE calls….agreed?)

Worst decision ever:  Chuck Noll NOT punting late in Super Bowl X.  I understood the decision later on, since three of their punts were almost blocked….but to give Staubach all of those scoring opportunities inside of the 40 at the end was crazy.  Yet, it worked.
 

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, during the 2 weeks of prep against Seattle the Pats practiced on the 3 corner set up with that exact play Seattle ran.  That play was all about knowing tendencies.

[Stadler]

I know this is sort of a bullshit argument, but I think you have to have played sports to understand how good Brady is.  The mental toughness to not only overcome your teams mistakes, but your own (he overthrew Edelman badly on one early play), AND overcome the pressure of a rush that you didn't really see all season long, and overcome the physical punishment of being sacked by a 370-lb. lineman, AND overcome the psychological mountain of a 28-3 score with less than half the game to play, AND overcome the notion of accomplishing not one, not two, but THREE things that no one had ever done before, AND overcome the largest TV audience for any single game in any single year, AND overcome the pressure of being the greatest ever, AND overcoming the pressure of the fallout from the suspension, then to ACTUALLY DO IT - perform at a higher level yourself, and get those around you to play at a higher level - is beyond words.   

How many of you at work say at 4:45, "ah fuck it, I'll do it tomorrow".  Or are at work and say "Well, I would have finished that, but I was waiting for Hokum to finish his piece".  Or say "Well, I would have finished that, but my computer is giving me grief...".   Any of 1,000 excuses.     Brady made none of them, and in real time, with a finite amount of time to do it in, changed that entire game around. 

BEST EVER.

This kind of worship is fun to read, but let's get real.  Brady did not make the comeback all by himself.  It was a team comeback.  One man cannot bring a 53-man football team back from a 25-point deficit.  I think Brady is now the greatest ever, but let's pump the brakes on the "he can move mountains all by himself" analogies.

Except... there's a thing called the "clubhouse".  And while I conceded it was sort of a dick argument, it's why I said you have to play sports to kind of get this, but while it takes 53 men to actually execute, on many teams - and the Pats are one of them - 52 follow their leader.    Notice that once Brady calmed down, beat the rush, and got hot...
- there was less pressure on him (because the O-line stepped up)
- Edelman not only didn't have any more drops, but made arguably the catch of the game?
- Amendola stepped up and became a factor
- Lewis stepped up and became a factor
- Bennett stepped up and became a factor

The only guy that really didn't elevate his game was Blount, and that's only because Belichick took the ball from him after he put it on the ground. 

It even had an influence when he was off the field.  Everyone knew - or at least felt - that now that Tommy Football was hitting his stride, the score didn't matter, and it was only a question of whether they had enough time left.   Single players - the great ones - can do that sort of thing.   Some players are just winners.  They KNOW how to win, and how to get guys around them to win.   Mark Messier is another.   

[Podaar]

No love for Mitchell, Stadler? I felt like they could have, and should have thrown to him more.

[Stadler]

No, actually, just the opposite.   He played great, and is another example.  Brady had the confidence to throw to him - to play the full Patriot offense - and it showed. 

[mikeyd23]

Except... there's a thing called the "clubhouse".  And while I conceded it was sort of a dick argument, it's why I said you have to play sports to kind of get this, but while it takes 53 men to actually execute, on many teams - and the Pats are one of them - 52 follow their leader.    Notice that once Brady calmed down, beat the rush, and got hot...
- there was less pressure on him (because the O-line stepped up)
- Edelman not only didn't have any more drops, but made arguably the catch of the game?
- Amendola stepped up and became a factor
- Lewis stepped up and became a factor
- Bennett stepped up and became a factor

The only guy that really didn't elevate his game was Blount, and that's only because Belichick took the ball from him after he put it on the ground. 

It even had an influence when he was off the field.  Everyone knew - or at least felt - that now that Tommy Football was hitting his stride, the score didn't matter, and it was only a question of whether they had enough time left.   Single players - the great ones - can do that sort of thing.   Some players are just winners.  They KNOW how to win, and how to get guys around them to win.   Mark Messier is another.

Eh, I get what you are trying to say Stads, your basically trying to describe intangibles like "leadership". At the end of the day though, leadership is exactly that, intangible. I could make the argument that Brady starting playing better because he was led to play better from his o-line standing up and playing better, or his WRs actually catching balls. I get what you are trying to say, it's just intangible, and hard to measure. I'd credit more of that comeback to Brady's skill set and athletic ability than I would leadership.

[King Postwhore]

That's understood.  Brady is the big cog that everybody runs off of.  Kev can we agree that even though Peyton's arm was dead last year his mind still as sharp as ever and with the help of the great D they had they won the SB.  It's showed this year that they needed Peyton's mind.

I see the same with Brady.  His mind is his greatest weapon. Keep in on his feet and he'll have you in any game.

[DragonAttack]

NE didn't panic offensively, because they were moving the ball.  When it was 28-3, I still thought the final score would be along the lines of 38-28.  The 'D' stopped the Falcons after the failed onside kick, created a turnover later, and then did the seemingly impossible when it was 28-20, when Atlanta did their brain farts.

btw....How about James White?  Three TDs.  Did I hear correctly, only 33 snaps in their prior two playoff games?  He was on the field for 63 snaps in the SB.  Another unknown.

Enjoying a couple of days off after beaucoup OT the previous two weeks.  Was able to watch the 2nd half twice.  I'll just comment as to the game presentation:  First, I hate, hate, HATE .....that the camera angle in the SBs now switches from the goal line when the ball is inside the 10.  I would ALWAYS prefer the angle to be from the 50 towards the line of scrimmage.  One can miss a single play, come back in the room, and think a team lost 10 yards instead of gaining 15, because the line of site is switched.

And,...I'll give Buck and Aikman an A-.  They were really, really (grudgingly stated) really good.  My angst towards Joe relates to his comments on not being that excited doing baseball.....and that he is absolutely atrocious trying to do golf (he should let someone else take that gig).  But, this is a pretty good team for football.  Unlike Sims and Collingsworth (who I like and respect, but....), Aikman didn't overtalk.  Not even close.  There were actually times when there was a ton of silence.  They let us ENJOY the game, without telling us we HAD to.  I never once said 'Shut up, Troy!'  Kudos for that.

[hefdaddy42]

Still don't like New England, but I have to agree that now it is reasonable and accurate to consider Brady the greatest QB ever.  Very, very hard to argue with that proposition.

Belichik is a genius, as we knew.

But still, if Atlanta hadn't choked, I don't think the comeback would have been complete.  They really dorked it around 4 minutes or so left, when NE had cut the lead to 28-20.  If they had run it a time or two once they got into field goal range, they could have padded the lead a little with a FG.  But the sack and then the penalty killed them there.

Oh well.  It always takes a little luck.  It was just terrible to see the Falcons crumble like that.

[pogoowner]

And,...I'll give Buck and Aikman an A-.  They were really, really (grudgingly stated) really good.  My angst towards Joe relates to his comments on not being that excited doing baseball.....and that he is absolutely atrocious trying to do golf (he should let someone else take that gig).  But, this is a pretty good team for football.  Unlike Sims and Collingsworth (who I like and respect, but....), Aikman didn't overtalk.  Not even close.  There were actually times when there was a ton of silence.  They let us ENJOY the game, without telling us we HAD to.  I never once said 'Shut up, Troy!'  Kudos for that.

Yeah, Buck/Aikman did a good job. I like Michaels/Collinsworth a lot, but Cris does overtalk occasionally. Don't get me started on Nantz/Simms. Simms is a total blockhead, and I don't know how Nantz even puts up with him.

[El Barto]

btw....How about James White?  Three TDs.  Did I hear correctly, only 33 snaps in their prior two playoff games?  He was on the field for 63 snaps in the SB.  Another unknown.

White's been their pass catching back since Shane Vereen left. It's unusual to see him run much, barring injury, but he's been a key component for a couple of years. The thing about NE is that you never actually know what their RB situation will be game to game, but if running interests them they usually find the player that works, be it Blount, White or Lewis. Sunday it was White that had it working. That's why it's easy for a NE RB to go under somebody's radar.

What I don't get is the role reversal of Blount and Lewis over the last few weeks. Blount has been their off-tackle guy while Lewis runs up the middle. I don't get it, and it didn't seem to be working much, either. Also, with White filling the role we haven't seen Lewis catching passes, which is where he was most dangerous last year. You get that kid the ball in space and he'll get some yardage every time.

[Cool Chris]

Well there is no way ATL is making it back to the SB now.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18637687/steve-sarkisian-next-offensive-coordinator-atlanta-falcons

[Stadler]

Couple thoughts:  love Collinsworth/Michaels.   Like Simms, I ABHOR Jim Nantz.  I think he blows, and have thought that since his call (with Billy Packer) of the Duke - UConn NCAA Champeenship, when UConn beat Duke, and to hear Packer and Nantz call it, the Huns just invaded the palace.  You'd've thought someone just told him his daughter was knocked up.

I find this interesting:

Pete Carroll defies conventional wisdom, goes against his strength (Marshawn Lynch) and tries to cross up the Pats with a goal-line pass...  INT, game over.

Dan Quinn learns his lesson (he was a Seattle coach at the time of the above), sticks to his strength (Matty-Ice and their passing game) and...  sack, game, if not over, then fundamentally changed.   

 

[bosk1]

Both perfectly legit calls.  I can't really have much respect for the view that either constitutes a "choke" somehow.  Just seems like a feeble attempt to explain away the fact that someone didn't like who won/lost.

[King Postwhore]

Still don't like New England, but I have to agree that now it is reasonable and accurate to consider Brady the greatest QB ever.  Very, very hard to argue with that proposition.

Belichik is a genius, as we knew.

But still, if Atlanta hadn't choked, I don't think the comeback would have been complete.  They really dorked it around 4 minutes or so left, when NE had cut the lead to 28-20.  If they had run it a time or two once they got into field goal range, they could have padded the lead a little with a FG.  But the sack and then the penalty killed them there.

Oh well.  It always takes a little luck.  It was just terrible to see the Falcons crumble like that.

All they had to do was run on 3 plays and either get a first down, kick a field goal or the Pats use their time outs which accomplishes 2 things at the same time.  I get they haven't play much like that all year by playing it safe but at that time you should have made it a 2 score game.

[Cool Chris]

I ABHOR Jim Nantz.  I think he blows, and have thought that since his call (with Billy Packer) of the Duke - UConn NCAA Champeenship, when UConn beat Duke, and to hear Packer and Nantz call it, the Huns just invaded the palace.  You'd've thought someone just told him his daughter was knocked up.

Billy Packer was downright awful. Nantz is much better on broadcasts without him, as anyone would be.

[El Barto]

Both perfectly legit calls.  I can't really have much respect for the view that either constitutes a "choke" somehow.  Just seems like a feeble attempt to explain away the fact that someone didn't like who won/lost.

I agree. Sometimes you stand on 20 and lost to a dealer showing a 4. No problem at all with Carroll, and the issue with Atlanta was more about Ryan taking a sack than the play calling. Oh, and one boneheaded penalty after another.

[Podaar]