2016 NFL THREAD - Super Bowl 51 - Patriots' Day: V - Screw Goodell

[KevShmev]

I hope the Pats win now. Matt Ryan deserves to lose after being a total dumbass.

Well, I'll never hope the Pats the win, but Matt Ryan had no clue about situational football.  Not only did he take a sack when he should've gotten rid of it on the previous possession, he also clocked it on 2nd and 6 instead of 1st and 10 at the end of regulation.  Very poor decision making in clutch situations.  Hard to believe he is league MVP after that utter collapse.

He's a fraud.  Sure, he looks great when he has time to throw and a million weapons, but when the pressure is on, he choked. Big time.  That lack of situational awareness was unbelievable.  Throwing on 2nd down with 4 minutes left was a bad play call (I said run in three times and kick the FG after Julio's epic catch), but standing back there all day and taking the sack was something a rookie would do.  Total fraud.

That said, congrats to the Patriots on an epic comeback. They deserved it.

That's a bit too strong Kev. He's not a fraud. He buzzed though the Seahawks and the made the Packers look silly. And for 75 % of the SB he was on his way to the win.

Matt Ryan has shown throughout his career that he is an average QB unless he has half a dozen really good weapons around him. Give him Brady's weapons and he'd be 6-10.  He gagged it away.  TOTAL FRAUD.

[TAC]

I disagree. He's not Brady. Got it.

Edelman is ridiculous.

Ryan wins the SB next year, Calling it.

[TAC]

Watching the local Pats's Post Game and they mention this:

Julio Jones....only 4 targets? Is that right?



Chris, love the thread title!

[KevShmev]

Matt Ryan will never make it back to the Super Bowl. Calling it now.

What a shame for Julio Jones. He makes one of the best plays in Super Bowl history, and it is all for naught.  That should have been the play that sealed a Super Bowl win, but his OC and QB made that catch a mere footnote now.

[pogoowner]

I disagree. He's not Brady. Got it.

Edelman is ridiculous.

Ryan wins the SB next year, Calling it.

If the defense keeps improving, maybe. But I doubt it. They'll have a new offensive coordinator next year, and that could greatly affect them.

[KevShmev]

If the defense keeps improving, maybe. But I doubt it. They'll have a new offensive coordinator next year, and that could greatly affect them.

Yep, despite Shanahan's dreadful play calling tonight, he did a great job all season, and Ryan has never been anything more than a borderline top 10 NFL QB prior to this year. 

Also,  at Julio only having 4 targets.

And Austin Hooper had 6.

[Ben_Jamin]

I am speechless. I am without speech.

LOL That ESPN Win Probability had ATL at 99.6% at 9:00 in the 4th.

I know I was laughing a bit seeing it jump from that to Pats.

[King Postwhore]

I'm still on 7th heaven.  Tomorrow the owners lackey he's to hand Brady the MVP award.  I hope to hear 31 owners scream.

[TAC]

I have to get up in 3 hours to go to work! 

[lonestar]

Don't need to say anything that hasn't been said already, tremendous game..

Love reading through the thread though...it's all "Falcons rout blah blah" for a while, then there is a posting gap from 6:06 to 7:02 where I assume everyone was all  at their tv's 


(my problem was, I hit a meeting from 6 to 7, entered the meeting at 21-3 and I came out to see it 28-21 with the pats in the red zone, ran like a motherfucker from the church to the nearby bbq joint to see them tie it up and win)

[El Barto]

Love reading through the thread though...it's all "Falcons rout blah blah" for a while, then there is a posting gap from 6:06 to 7:02 where I assume everyone was all  at their tv's 

Catching up with this well after the game was over was a hoot. A whole lot of people scoffing a bit too early. When I heard Joe Buck say that no team has ever come back from a 19pt deficit I chuckled about the Ravens game. Props to Kev for remembering that it's a four quarter game.

I loved Kraft sticking it to Goodell. He sure didn't stick around much.   
And it's hard to argue with Bradshaw. It was the best coach and the best quarterback in the best Superbowl. It's getting downright impossible to question those two being GOATs.



edit: Julio Jones had two catches that really left me dumbfucked. Man's a beast. Edleman had one just as spectacular when the game was really on the line.

[splent]

Don't need to say anything that hasn't been said already, tremendous game..

Love reading through the thread though...it's all "Falcons rout blah blah" for a while, then there is a posting gap from 6:06 to 7:02 where I assume everyone was all  at their tv's 


(my problem was, I hit a meeting from 6 to 7, entered the meeting at 21-3 and I came out to see it 28-21 with the pats in the red zone, ran like a motherfucker from the church to the nearby bbq joint to see them tie it up and win)

I blame the meeting

[KevShmev]

I went to a friend's house for the 2nd half, hence my lack of posting there for a while. And I missed the halftime show while driving there, and then the post game stuff when driving back home, neither of which bummed me out at all.

Kraft stuck it to Goodell?  That's unfortunate.  Kraft has always been a classy guy, and I figured he would take the high road there instead of being a gloating knucklehead, but he was probably drunk again.

Belichick was already the GOAT before last night, and that just solidified it even more.  I've said for a while that Peyton and Brady are 1a and 1b on my list of all-time QBs, but last night puts Brady over the top at 1 by himself, I think.  It's still closer than many think, but five championships and four Super Bowl MVP awards is unprecedented.

[Dream Team]

Couple things, taking nothing away from NE.

OF COURSE NE wins the OT coin toss. Of course. Everyone knew Atl D was totally gassed. If their O got the ball first, could have made a big difference. But they never should have gagged the lead away in the first place.

NE had 66 drop backs and 4 deep passes. They did what they always do, a series of accurate very short passes against a tiring D. Not always exciting to watch, but effective.

Brady had at least 3 other passes that should have been picked, especially that one tipped straight up into the air.

Nice for him to win, sounds like his mom has been pretty ill.

[Dream Team]

Also, something that sometimes gets missed in the excitement is that those fourth quarter comebacks against Seattle and Atlanta can't happen without the D continually making stops. It's still a team game.

[Stadler]

Heavy advantage being granted by a coin flip in OT has to be the worst rule in sports that I know of. At least scrap that shit for the playoffs. But meh.

Except the stats say there is almost NO advantage to winning the coin flip, so there's the facts to contend with.

Look, to put this on the Falcons, as if it was ALL them, is ridiculous.   Ryan had the protection of kings for most of the last six games, and Patricia found a way to get to him.  That sack was clearly the turning point, but 31 straight points, including TWO 2-pt. conversions... that's not on Matt Ryan.   Hard to call him the goat when he spend much of the 4th quarter on the sideline and ALL of the overtime. 

That game was ALL about heart and stamina, and mental toughness.  There's no reason why the Pats - at 28-3 - shouldn't have started congratulating each other on a good season, we'll get 'em next year, and yet, no.  NEVER quit.  Edelman, two drops early, get's strong and makes the catch of the game (well, ok, maybe Julio Jones has that, but you get the point).   Brady, sharp as a rusty knife in the first quarter, and yet, as precise as a surgeon in the fourth quarter and in OT.   TWO passes that had to be perfect, and he hit them.   

I'm sorry, but any conversation of "Greatest QB ever" that doesn't start with "Tom Brady" is utterly useless and without credibility at this point.   

[mikeyd23]

Holy cow, great win by the Pats!!

How do people feel about NFL overtime rules, just out of curiosity, not to take any thing away from the Pats, but so much is based on the luck of a coin flip. Why not make NFL overtimes an extra 10:00 minute period, they play the full 10:00 minutes and whoever is winning at the end of the clock wins, none of this sudden death stuff. It just seems random, if the Pats kick a field goal in OT, Atlanta has a chance with the ball, but not if the Pats score a TD? Just kinda random.

Oh and Tom Brady, as much as it pains me, is freaking incredible.

And I agree with Kev, Matt Ryan will never make it back to a SB, this was his shot.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Heavy advantage being granted by a coin flip in OT has to be the worst rule in sports that I know of. At least scrap that shit for the playoffs. But meh.

Except the stats say there is almost NO advantage to winning the coin flip, so there's the facts to contend with.

Look, to put this on the Falcons, as if it was ALL them, is ridiculous.   Ryan had the protection of kings for most of the last six games, and Patricia found a way to get to him.  That sack was clearly the turning point, but 31 straight points, including TWO 2-pt. conversions... that's not on Matt Ryan.   Hard to call him the goat when he spend much of the 4th quarter on the sideline and ALL of the overtime. 

That game was ALL about heart and stamina, and mental toughness.  There's no reason why the Pats - at 28-3 - shouldn't have started congratulating each other on a good season, we'll get 'em next year, and yet, no.  NEVER quit.  Edelman, two drops early, get's strong and makes the catch of the game (well, ok, maybe Julio Jones has that, but you get the point).   Brady, sharp as a rusty knife in the first quarter, and yet, as precise as a surgeon in the fourth quarter and in OT.   TWO passes that had to be perfect, and he hit them.   

I'm sorry, but any conversation of "Greatest QB ever" that doesn't start with "Tom Brady" is utterly useless and without credibility at this point.

The advantage of the coin flip LAST night was huge. There is no denying that.

And if Ryan could sustain drives in the second half.... the Falcons' defense wouldn't have been so gassed. There is a direct correlation.

But all the credit in the world to New England... they made the adjustments an had a hell of a comeback.

[Stadler]

Love reading through the thread though...it's all "Falcons rout blah blah" for a while, then there is a posting gap from 6:06 to 7:02 where I assume everyone was all  at their tv's 

Catching up with this well after the game was over was a hoot. A whole lot of people scoffing a bit too early. When I heard Joe Buck say that no team has ever come back from a 19pt deficit I chuckled about the Ravens game. Props to Kev for remembering that it's a four quarter game.

I loved Kraft sticking it to Goodell. He sure didn't stick around much.   
And it's hard to argue with Bradshaw. It was the best coach and the best quarterback in the best Superbowl. It's getting downright impossible to question those two being GOATs.



edit: Julio Jones had two catches that really left me dumbfucked. Man's a beast. Edleman had one just as spectacular when the game was really on the line.

That was the one thing the Pats did well from wire to wire; they double teamed Jones almost the entire game, and forced Atlanta to go to their second and third guys.  That's why the effectiveness of the Atlanta run early was so devastating; it made it harder to keep that double team.

Even the great catch (and make no mistake, that was one for the ages) needed an absolutely perfect throw from Ryan. 

[Chino]

Holy cow, great win by the Pats!!

How do people feel about NFL overtime rules, just out of curiosity, not to take any thing away from the Pats, but so much is based on the luck of a coin flip. Why not make NFL overtimes an extra 10:00 minute period, they play the full 10:00 minutes and whoever is winning at the end of the clock wins, none of this sudden death stuff. It just seems random, if the Pats kick a field goal in OT, Atlanta has a chance with the ball, but not if the Pats score a TD? Just kinda random.

Oh and Tom Brady, as much as it pains me, is freaking incredible.

And I agree with Kev, Matt Ryan will never make it back to a SB, this was his shot.

In my ideal world, I'd like to see an additional 15 minute quarter played with the caveat of whoever scores the touchdown needs to kick the extra point. No two point conversions allowed.

[Stadler]

Heavy advantage being granted by a coin flip in OT has to be the worst rule in sports that I know of. At least scrap that shit for the playoffs. But meh.

Except the stats say there is almost NO advantage to winning the coin flip, so there's the facts to contend with.

Look, to put this on the Falcons, as if it was ALL them, is ridiculous.   Ryan had the protection of kings for most of the last six games, and Patricia found a way to get to him.  That sack was clearly the turning point, but 31 straight points, including TWO 2-pt. conversions... that's not on Matt Ryan.   Hard to call him the goat when he spend much of the 4th quarter on the sideline and ALL of the overtime. 

That game was ALL about heart and stamina, and mental toughness.  There's no reason why the Pats - at 28-3 - shouldn't have started congratulating each other on a good season, we'll get 'em next year, and yet, no.  NEVER quit.  Edelman, two drops early, get's strong and makes the catch of the game (well, ok, maybe Julio Jones has that, but you get the point).   Brady, sharp as a rusty knife in the first quarter, and yet, as precise as a surgeon in the fourth quarter and in OT.   TWO passes that had to be perfect, and he hit them.   

I'm sorry, but any conversation of "Greatest QB ever" that doesn't start with "Tom Brady" is utterly useless and without credibility at this point.

The advantage of the coin flip LAST night was huge. There is no denying that.

And if Ryan could sustain drives in the second half.... the Falcons' defense wouldn't have been so gassed. There is a direct correlation.

But all the credit in the world to New England... they made the adjustments an had a hell of a comeback.

But it's not an advantage of the COIN FLIP.  It was an advantage of the game play.   It was an advantage earned by the Patriots by controlling the football for most of the fourth quarter.    Yes, the Atlanta D was gassed, but that flip goes the other way, I'm not sure it changes the ultimate outcome.  The coin flip didn't do diddly to help the Pats march the length of the field.   

[mikeyd23]

The advantage of the coin flip LAST night was huge. There is no denying that.

And if Ryan could sustain drives in the second half.... the Falcons' defense wouldn't have been so gassed. There is a direct correlation.

But all the credit in the world to New England... they made the adjustments an had a hell of a comeback.

Agreed. That's why I wouldn't make the entire game ride on that flip. The sudden death OT thing works in hockey because of the continuous nature of the game. Football is a start, stop game. Doesn't work the same, IMO.

In my ideal world, I'd like to see an additional 15 minute quarter played with the caveat of whoever scores the touchdown needs to kick the extra point. No two point conversions allowed.

I'd be game for that, it would certainly make more sense.

I'm not taking anything away from the Pats, those are the rules, they won by them, I'm just kinda thinking aloud.

[mikeyd23]

But it's not an advantage of the COIN FLIP.  It was an advantage of the game play.   It was an advantage earned by the Patriots by controlling the football for most of the fourth quarter.    Yes, the Atlanta D was gassed, but that flip goes the other way, I'm not sure it changes the ultimate outcome.  The coin flip didn't do diddly to help the Pats march the length of the field.

Stad, I know you are a Pats fan, I don't think this argument is trying to take anything away from the Pats, but the coin flip is a HUGE advantage in that situation last night. Them winning the coin flip had nothing to do with how good they were playing in the 4th, how good their game plan was, it was luck.

[gmillerdrake]

So many good points have been made. It was just a great game, and it was awesome being able to watch history. It solidifies both Belichick as the greatest coach ever to this point and Brady as the greatest QB....there really is no argument that can be made to disprove that.

For as good as the Pats were in the second half the Falcons were that bad. For them not to have expected Belichick not to make adjustments and continue with the same game plan was their downfall. They needed to have (2) plans prepared to go....Again, the Pats earned that victory 100% but that doesn't eliminate the fact that the Falcons choked as well. Execution wise and especially coaching they were outmatched.

I feel bad for JJ because he was horrifically underused and he busted his tail the few chances he got. And count me in the group that says Matt Ryan will never see a SB again. That was his shot....and he blew it.

[Stadler]

But it's not an advantage of the COIN FLIP.  It was an advantage of the game play.   It was an advantage earned by the Patriots by controlling the football for most of the fourth quarter.    Yes, the Atlanta D was gassed, but that flip goes the other way, I'm not sure it changes the ultimate outcome.  The coin flip didn't do diddly to help the Pats march the length of the field.

Stad, I know you are a Pats fan, I don't think this argument is trying to take anything away from the Pats, but the coin flip is a HUGE advantage in that situation last night. Them winning the coin flip had nothing to do with how good they were playing in the 4th, how good their game plan was, it was luck.

Well, again, I understand that having the ball at that point was huge; but it WAS luck, and no different than any of a 100 of other things that are the same odds for both teams.  If the Pats lost the flip, they'd have to play D, and then get back on the field.  It's not a flaw in the system, as much as it is the way the game is.  You could say the same thing about the Falcons getting the ball after the half, and scoring, that should have sealed the deal but it didn't.   

[mikeyd23]

But it's not an advantage of the COIN FLIP.  It was an advantage of the game play.   It was an advantage earned by the Patriots by controlling the football for most of the fourth quarter.    Yes, the Atlanta D was gassed, but that flip goes the other way, I'm not sure it changes the ultimate outcome.  The coin flip didn't do diddly to help the Pats march the length of the field.

Stad, I know you are a Pats fan, I don't think this argument is trying to take anything away from the Pats, but the coin flip is a HUGE advantage in that situation last night. Them winning the coin flip had nothing to do with how good they were playing in the 4th, how good their game plan was, it was luck.

Well, again, I understand that having the ball at that point was huge; but it WAS luck, and no different than any of a 100 of other things that are the same odds for both teams.  If the Pats lost the flip, they'd have to play D, and then get back on the field.  It's not a flaw in the system, as much as it is the way the game is.  You could say the same thing about the Falcons getting the ball after the half, and scoring, that should have sealed the deal but it didn't.   

That specific game yesterday aside, would you rather see the NFL move to a different overtime format where OT is another 15:00 minute quarter and they play till the end to determine a winner?

[El Barto]

Momentum is huge in these situations, and it had shifted so dramatically towards the Pats the OT coin toss probably just saved Atlanta further humiliation.

Kraft stuck it to Goodell?  That's unfortunate.  Kraft has always been a classy guy, and I figured he would take the high road there instead of being a gloating knucklehead, but he was probably drunk again.

Certainly not like two weeks ago, but he wasn't a shining beacon of sobriety, either. And he wasn't a dick about it. He basically just said that he had thought two years ago was the sweetest of his SB victories, but after everything they went through, "and everybody knows what we went through," this one's better. And the crowd was far more hostile than any of the Patriots. That was one helluva chorus of boos Roger got.

[El Barto]

That specific game yesterday aside, would you rather see the NFL move to a different overtime format where OT is another 15:00 minute quarter and they play till the end to determine a winner?

Not me. I wouldn't mind seeing that both teams get an opportunity, even after a field goal, but sudden death has always been how NFL OT works and I don't want to see that change. What I would like to see is an end to tie games.

[gmillerdrake]

That specific game yesterday aside, would you rather see the NFL move to a different overtime format where OT is another 15:00 minute quarter and they play till the end to determine a winner?

Absolutely. I've always disliked the NFL OT rule. Especially in the SB where a coin flip can ultimately determine who's gonna be champ, not that I think it mattered yesterday because:

Momentum is huge in these situations, and it had shifted so dramatically towards the Pats the OT coin toss probably just saved Atlanta further humiliation.

Even had Atlanta won the toss they were already beaten. They were beaten when the Pats got the score to within 8 points. You could see it...everyone could see it. Their Defense would have forced a 3 and out in OT and the Pats win anyway.

[mikeyd23]

That specific game yesterday aside, would you rather see the NFL move to a different overtime format where OT is another 15:00 minute quarter and they play till the end to determine a winner?

Not me. I wouldn't mind seeing that both teams get an opportunity, even after a field goal, but sudden death has always been how NFL OT works and I don't want to see that change. What I would like to see is an end to tie games.

I agree on the tie games thing. Even giving both teams a chance is better I guess, the way it is now just makes no sense to me. If the way OT is structured now makes sense, why do they even have a game clock during regulation? Why not just start the game saying each team gets the ball 10 times, whoever scores more wins, but wait...if the other team scores a TD you don't get the ball but if it's a field goal you do...or something.

[bosk1]

So many good points have been made. It was just a great game, and it was awesome being able to watch history. It solidifies both Belichick as the greatest coach ever to this point and Brady as the greatest QB....there really is no argument that can be made to disprove that.

All of that.  And fun to see the game go from snoozer to one of the best endings to a Super Bowl EVER. 

For as good as the Pats were in the second half the Falcons were that bad. For them not to have expected Belichick not to make adjustments and continue with the same game plan was their downfall. They needed to have (2) plans prepared to go....Again, the Pats earned that victory 100% but that doesn't eliminate the fact that the Falcons choked as well. Execution wise and especially coaching they were outmatched.

They absolutely did NOT "choke."  They got outplayed and had some things go wrong at the end.  Give credit where it is due--to both teams.  Calling it a choke is either laziness, dishonesty, or lack of understanding the game. 

[gmillerdrake]

For as good as the Pats were in the second half the Falcons were that bad. For them not to have expected Belichick not to make adjustments and continue with the same game plan was their downfall. They needed to have (2) plans prepared to go....Again, the Pats earned that victory 100% but that doesn't eliminate the fact that the Falcons choked as well. Execution wise and especially coaching they were outmatched.

They absolutely did NOT "choke."  They got outplayed and had some things go wrong at the end.  Give credit where it is due--to both teams.  Calling it a choke is either laziness, dishonesty, or lack of understanding the game.

I'll admit that I know little about football other than liking to watch it, but I still believe there was quite a bit of butt puckering and tense worry in the players on Atlanta once the Pats started making it a game...it was obvious in the lack of execution in the series not only when Ryan was sacked and fumbled but the series that they were driven out of FG range.

Certainly credit goes to the Pats players and coaches...absolutely. But Atlanta's lack of execution in both those areas can be described as a manner of choking due to having to face the pressure of the mounting comeback.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

So many good points have been made. It was just a great game, and it was awesome being able to watch history. It solidifies both Belichick as the greatest coach ever to this point and Brady as the greatest QB....there really is no argument that can be made to disprove that.

I'm with Belichick being the best coach without question..... but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

[El Barto]

So many good points have been made. It was just a great game, and it was awesome being able to watch history. It solidifies both Belichick as the greatest coach ever to this point and Brady as the greatest QB....there really is no argument that can be made to disprove that.

I'm with Belichick being the best coach without question..... but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

There's always been a conversation with Montana, but last night Brady demonstrated the very best quality Joe had which was amazing poise under tremendous pressure. I think the conversation is over.

[gmillerdrake]

but there is no clear cut greatest QB of all time. Brady is certainly in the conversation... but there is a conversation.

I'm no Tom Brady fan by any means and really just a casual Football fan at best. But if you're strictly looking at stats, wins, MVPs etc then there is no factual argument that can remove him from being the Best QB ever. If you're introducing intangibles and the 'era' arguments....then you can turn it into a conversation, but even then he's atop the heap of great QB's.