2016 NFL THREAD - Super Bowl 51 - Patriots' Day: V - Screw Goodell

[Rattlehead]

Funny to see some say Brees has dropped off, when even last year he was better than most including Roethlisberger.

I was going to say the same thing. I guess Brees is "fading" because his team can't play defense and he has very little help all together.

[King Postwhore]

I think it's all the interceptions that make people lower him in their rankings.

[KevShmev]

Brees has 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions last year, while still finishing 6th in YPA.  Pretty awesome season, I would say, so the reports of his alleged decline are definitely way off base. 

Meanwhile, Roethlisberger, while throwing to much better targets, had a whopping 21 touchdowns and 16 interceptions.  Roethlisberger wasn't even as good as Andy Dalton last year, yet some think he is the 3rd best.  It's laughable.

[King Postwhore]

I'm not saying that but if you look at the last 5 years 22, 19 and 17 int's.   People look differently.   The real truth is the D was no good so it affects him even though it shouldn't.

That's the same with all QB'S. Perception sometimes becomes reality for fans.

[Rattlehead]

Well, last year he had 11 interceptions. Considering how he had 627 passing attempts, I wouldn't say that's bad at all. Let's see how that stacks up against some other QBs that are considered amongst the best in the league.

2015 Season
Roethlisberger - 16 interceptions/469 passing attempts
Eli Manning - 14 interceptions/618 passing attempts
Newton - 10 interceptions/495 passing attempts
Wilson - 8 interceptions/483 passing attempts
Rodgers - 8 interceptions/572 passing attempts
Brady - 7 interceptions/624 passing attempts

No surprise to see Brady and Rodgers with such great numbers as most would agree that they are the top 2 QBs. Not sure it's fair to lower Brees in your rankings for interceptions though considering how often he throws the ball and how he compares to other great QBs in the league.

(note: I typed this up before I saw Kev and King's responses, just thought it was still worth posting because it is interesting to look at the numbers)

[Rattlehead]

Brees has 32 touchdowns and 11 interceptions last year, while still finishing 6th in YPA.  Pretty awesome season, I would say, so the reports of his alleged decline are definitely way off base. 

Meanwhile, Roethlisberger, while throwing to much better targets, had a whopping 21 touchdowns and 16 interceptions.  Roethlisberger wasn't even as good as Andy Dalton last year, yet some think he is the 3rd best.  It's laughable.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you here, but you do have to take into account that Ben suffered some nagging injuries last year that definitely affected his numbers. Had to look them up to refresh my memory and the first thing I saw was an article where Ben talked about the knee injury he suffered against St. Louis and how it was the most painful injury in his career. I remember being shocked at how soon he was able to come back from that…

[KevShmev]

Okay. but that is part of the equation. Part of being great is being lucky enough to be durable, and Roethlisberger falls way short of the mark in that regard; he gets hurt at some point every year.  Some will say that is because he is tough and willing to take shots to get passes off, but sometimes you have to be smart and not take the big hits. Look at a guy like Russell Wilson.  He is also tough as nails, but rarely takes big shots.

[King Postwhore]

He's magic outside the pocket but that's also where he gets hurt.

[KevShmev]

NFL Network did their usual top 100 NFL players list, which they just completed.

Roethsliberger was the 6th highest QB.  They got that right at least.

100. Derek Carr (Raiders QB)

99. Cameron Jordan (Saints DE)

98. Jarvis Landry (Dolphins WR)

97. Richie Incognito (Bills OG)

96. Sammy Watkins (Bills WR)

95. Mike Daniels (Packers DT)

94. Gary Barnidge (Browns TE)

93. Jeremy Maclin (Chiefs WR)

92. Andrew Luck (Colts QB)

91. Travis Kelce (Chiefs TE)

90. Matt Forte (Jets RB)

89. Allen Hurns (Jaguars WR)

88. Cameron Heyward (Steelers DE)

87. Julian Edelman (Patriots WR)

86. Jonathan Stewart (Panthers RB)

85. Kirk Cousins (Redskins QB)

84. Tamba Hali (Chiefs LB)

83. Telvin Smith (Jaguars LB)

82. Delanie Walker (Titans TE)

81. Alex Smith (Chiefs QB)

80. Derrick Johnson (Chiefs LB)

79. Ryan Kalil (Panthers C)

78. Chris Ivory (Jaguars RB)

77. Jordan Reed (Redskins TE)

76. Linval Joseph (Vikings DT)

75. Jamaal Charles (Chiefs RB)

74. Emmanuel Sanders (Broncos WR)

73. Harrison Smith (Vikings S)

72. Doug Baldwin (Seahawks WR)

71. Calais Campbell (Cardinals DE)

70. Carlos Dunlap (Bengals DE)

69. LeSean McCoy (Bills RB)

68. T.J. Ward (Broncos S)

67. Andrew Whitworth (Bengals OT)

66. Earl Thomas (Seahawks S)

65. Marcus Peters (Chiefs CB)

64. Reshad Jones (Dolphins S)

63. Gerald McCoy (Buccaneers DT)

62. Demaryius Thomas (Broncos WR)

61. NaVorro Bowman (49ers LB)

60. Reggie Nelson (Raiders S)

59. Michael Bennett (Seahawks DE)

58. Kawann Short (Panthers DT)

57. Clay Matthews III (Packers LB)

56. Blake Bortles (Jaguars QB)

55. Eric Berry (Chiefs S)

54. Thomas Davis (Panthers LB)

53. Lavonte David (Buccaneers LB)

52. Chris Harris Jr. (Broncos CB)

51. Dez Bryant (Cowboys WR)

50. Devonta Freeman (Falcons RB)

49. Fletcher Cox (Eagles DT)

48. Chandler Jones (Cardinals DE)

47. Eli Manning (Giants QB)

46. Philip Rivers (Chargers QB)

45. Trent Williams (Redskins OT)

44. Tyler Eifert (Bengals TE)

43. Ezekiel Ansah (Lions DE)

42. Tyron Smith (Cowboys OT)

41. Le'Veon Bell (Steelers RB)

40. Ndamukong Suh (Dolphins DT)

39. Muhammad Wilkerson (Jets DE)

38. Greg Olsen (Panthers TE)

37. Marshal Yanda (Ravens OG)

36. DeMarcus Ware (Broncos LB)

35. Andy Dalton (Bengals QB)

34. Aqib Talib (Broncos CB)

33. Doug Martin (Buccaneers RB)

32. Kam Chancellor (Seahawks S)

31. Allen Robinson (Jaguars WR)

30. Drew Brees (Saints QB)

29. Geno Atkins (Bengals DT)

28. Tyrann Mathieu (Cardinals S)

27. Larry Fitzgerald (Cardinals WR)

26. Justin Houston (Chiefs LB)

25. Brandon Marshall (Jets WR)

24. Darrelle Revis (Jets CB)

23. Joe Thomas (Browns OT)

22. Todd Gurley (Rams RB)

21. Ben Roethlisberger (Steelers QB)

20. Richard Sherman (Seahawks CB)

19. DeAndre Hopkins (Texans WR)

18. Patrick Peterson (Cardinals CB)

17. Russell Wilson (Seahawks QB)

16. A.J. Green (Bengals WR)

15. Von Miller (Broncos LB)

14. Aaron Donald (Rams DT)

13. Khalil Mack (Raiders DE)

12. Carson Palmer (Cardinals QB)

11. Josh Norman (Redskins CB)

10. Odell Beckham Jr. (Giants WR)

9. Rob Gronkowski (Patriots TE)

8. Julio Jones (Falcons WR)

7. Luke Kuechly (Panthers LB)

6. Aaron Rodgers (Packers QB)

5. Adrian Peterson (Vikings RB)

4. Antonio Brown (Steelers WR)

3. J.J. Watt (Texans DE)

2. Tom Brady (Patriots QB)

1. Cam Newton (Panthers QB)

[Rattlehead]

I can't argue with Ben's placement on the list either. Cam deserves #1 for sure too if we're just talking about last season. I love watching all the top 100 player videos though, it is something cool to follow when you're craving football again! 

[TheCountOfNYC]

It's good to see four Jets on the list but Sheldon Richardson was a huge snub. He's one of the best young defensive players in the league and had a good season last year dispite missing the first four games due to suspension.

[cramx3]

Well, last year he had 11 interceptions. Considering how he had 627 passing attempts, I wouldn't say that's bad at all. Let's see how that stacks up against some other QBs that are considered amongst the best in the league.

2015 Season
Roethlisberger - 16 interceptions/469 passing attempts
Eli Manning - 14 interceptions/618 passing attempts
Newton - 10 interceptions/495 passing attempts
Wilson - 8 interceptions/483 passing attempts
Rodgers - 8 interceptions/572 passing attempts
Brady - 7 interceptions/624 passing attempts

It's funny, this may be my list of best QB rankings, throw Breeze under Eli and in front of Newton where he belongs in this stat and swap Newton with Wilson and that I think is my top 7.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Any opinions on Blake Bortles? I like the progress that he's been making down in Jacksonville. Think he might crack the "Top 10" this year.

[KevShmev]

Bortles made some great strides last year, but the Jags will have to be a playoff team and he play out of his mind to crack the top 10 that soon, I think.

I am surprised Gronk isn't top 5. I would've put him in there with Rodgers, Brady, Watt and AP.

Von Miller only at 15 is kind of a surprise, too. I figured that SB MVP would've guaranteed him a top 10 spot. No way is Josh Norman a better player than him.

[King Postwhore]

Blake showed amazing growth last year.  He put himself on the map last year.  Hey to be picked in the top 100 by players says a lot on how they really think of you.  It's an honor.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Yeah, you all were discussing the NFL Top 100... should have clarified that I think Bortles could crack the top 10 as far as QBs go. 

I'm also curious to see how Carr does out in Oakland.

[King Postwhore]

That's another young QB that I forgot about.  He's done well his 1st 2 years in a below average situation.  They are getting better as a team though.

[mikeyd23]

Meanwhile, Roethlisberger, while throwing to much better targets, had a whopping 21 touchdowns and 16 interceptions.  Roethlisberger wasn't even as good as Andy Dalton last year, yet some think he is the 3rd best.  It's laughable.

It's laughable? Okay, I'm not going to keep debating this because basically it all comes down to opinion, but cherry-picking one set of stats from a 12 season career is a great way to assess a measure a player?

[hefdaddy42]

I'm certainly thrilled to see Cam ranked # 1 in that list, but even as a diehard Panther fan and equally diehard Patriot hater, Brady should have been ranked # 1.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I think Rodgers is still #1. He was absolutely incredible last season, even without Jordy Nelson. Those Hail Marys (yes, plural) were epic.

[KevShmev]

Meanwhile, Roethlisberger, while throwing to much better targets, had a whopping 21 touchdowns and 16 interceptions.  Roethlisberger wasn't even as good as Andy Dalton last year, yet some think he is the 3rd best.  It's laughable.

It's laughable? Okay, I'm not going to keep debating this because basically it all comes down to opinion, but cherry-picking one set of stats from a 12 season career is a great way to assess a measure a player?

That's from his most recent season. This is not a debate over best career; it's over who's best right now. That's why his rings are irrelevant when discussing who's better now unless you really think having won a title in 2008 matters when talking about who is better in 2016. To his credit, Ben did have a great YPA last year, but still had too many turnovers and offers nothing in the way of rushing yards anymore, unlike Cam and Wilson.

[mikeyd23]

Ah, okay we are talking about different things then, I was looking at the quarterbacks whole bodies of work from their careers.

[pogoowner]

Any opinions on Blake Bortles? I like the progress that he's been making down in Jacksonville. Think he might crack the "Top 10" this year.

Bortles has a lot of potential. He still has too many moments where you have no idea what he's doing, though. Too many turnovers. If he takes another step he'll be very good, though.

Derek Carr is the one that I think is going to really catch everyone's eye this year, especially with a now healthy Amari Cooper going into his second year.

[KevShmev]

Ah, okay we are talking about different things then, I was looking at the quarterbacks whole bodies of work from their careers.

You were?  Then why did you say this:

I'm actually surprised that (1) you guys are surprised I'd put Ben in the top three (he is widely considered by experts to be in the top three) and (2) I'm seeing Brees' name as a top three quarterback in this discussion, I don't think he is that good at this point in his career.

Since like you were willing to knock Brees down a notch or two because he supposedly isn't as good as he used to be, while still keeping Roethlisberger up there because of his body of work. 

Ironically, Roethlisberger might actually finish as a top 20 NFL QB when it is all said and done despite never being in that top tier of QBs at any given time or being a major MVP candidate in any one season.  That is kind of weird, but there's something to be said for always being really good and always in that 5-8 range of quarterbacks (where I think he has resided for pretty much all of his career).

[mikeyd23]

Gheez man sorry if my opinion bothered you. If I'm judging a quarterback by their whole career, and IMO Brees hasn't been as good in the recent portion of his career why wouldn't that effect how I view him? I think Ben's been better in recent years, which is part of his career. As a whole I think Ben's been a better quarterback as well. Not sure how I've contradicted myself here.

[KevShmev]

Your opinion didn't bother me; I simply do not agree with it.

Maybe Brees hasn't been as great recently as he was during his peak, but then again, maybe he has, especially when you consider he has never had a stud WR. The best WR he has ever had was Marques Colston, who was very good, but not really a true number 1 or a stud or anything.  Imagine if Brees had a guy like Antonio Brown.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Your opinion didn't bother me; I simply do not agree with it.

Maybe Brees hasn't been as great recently as he was during his peak, but then again, maybe he has, especially when you consider he has never had a stud WR. The best WR he has ever had was Marques Colston, who was very good, but not really a true number 1 or a stud or anything.  Imagine if Brees had a guy like Antonio Brown.

To be fair, he did have Jimmy Graham. I absolutely agree that Brees is still a top five QB and is definitely better than Big Ben, but it's not like he had no elite receiving talent around him.

[mikeyd23]

Your opinion didn't bother me; I simply do not agree with it.

Maybe Brees hasn't been as great recently as he was during his peak, but then again, maybe he has, especially when you consider he has never had a stud WR. The best WR he has ever had was Marques Colston, who was very good, but not really a true number 1 or a stud or anything.  Imagine if Brees had a guy like Antonio Brown.

Valid point. Interestingly enough though, there are a lot of folks around the Steelers that feel that Ben makes Brown as good as he is, not the other way around. Personally, I think they both simply make each other better.

[KevShmev]

Yep, I think it's both.  We all saw how Brown's production took a nosedive last year when Roethlisberger was hurt, and it goes without saying that a great WR is always a QB's best friend.

[Dublagent66]

A good offensive line is a QB's best friend.  I don't care how good the WR's are.

[KevShmev]

Very true.  I guess I meant a WR is their best friend when it comes to their ability to put up monster stats, but yeah, an offensive line is definitely a quarterback's best friend in the big picture.

[King Postwhore]

Just because it makes me happy.

[Bruinsfan25]

I believe Brady didn't do anything wrong but I'm at the point that I just want to move on from this ridiculousness. Talk about things getting out of hand. I heard an interview on the radio with the head of NFLPA and it sounds like Brady might keep fighting it sadly. Also he brought up that Article 46 has been around forever but it's never been abused by a commissioner before. I'm curious to see if the next CBA will try to change that.

[King Postwhore]

Why is that sad?  If you feel like you are innocent would you do whatever you could not to serve it?  That being said, he will lose and will have to serve it either this year or next year.

[cramx3]

Maybe he can just keep fighting it until he is ready to retire 

I also just want it to be over too.