2016 NFL THREAD - Super Bowl 51 - Patriots' Day: V - Screw Goodell

[TAC]

Anyway, I've found I can't make myself dislike Brady anymore. Not saying I like everything he does, but I love the way he competes.

Again, my intent it to not come off as a homer, but every NFL fan should see the Belichick/Brady program up close week in and week out. And I'm not just talking game days.

Why does everyone seem to think Pit has NO chance? Like it's inconceivable that Bell and/or Brown could have big games or something? Like literally INCONCEIVABLE?

The Steelers absolutely have a chance. They are the one team in the AFC that can come in here and win. No question.

[KevShmev]

Cowherd was just on the TV today saying that in his last 2 playoff games, Brady has completed 47% of passes with 3 TDs and 4 picks.

In his last eight road games, Roethlisberger has 6 TDs and 8 INTs.

Yes, it's true that Brady's playoff greatness is overstated and exaggerated, but those two games were against the number 1 defenses (Denver last year, Houston this year.).

[TAC]

We are well aware that Brady's QB rating in the playoffs is far less than his regular season average. Plus this year, they didn't play anybody. Other than a home loss to Seattle.
Saturday's game will be their toughest game of the year by far.

[King Postwhore]

I always think Pitts offense can match ours but I think our D is better which I don't think I've ever thought I'd say over 2 decades of this match up.

[TAC]

I always think Pitts offense can match ours but I think our D is better which I don't think I've ever thought I'd say over 2 decades of this match up.

It's hard to know how good their D really is. They've played some suck ass QB's this year. If there's one guy that can torch them, it's Big Ben.

[Accelerando]

I think the Antonio Brown live streaming in the locker room post-game is going to be a distraction. Everyone is going to talk about it, and the media are going to ask players about it. Sucks that has to happen before a potential great game

[King Postwhore]

I always think Pitts offense can match ours but I think our D is better which I don't think I've ever thought I'd say over 2 decades of this match up.

It's hard to know how good their D really is. They've played some suck ass QB's this year. If there's one guy that can torch them, it's Big Ben.

Both teams have played suck QB's but I do agree there is doubt.  Though there was a distinct change when they traded Collins to the better.   I never thought I'd say that!

[KevShmev]

I always think Pitts offense can match ours but I think our D is better which I don't think I've ever thought I'd say over 2 decades of this match up.

It's hard to know how good their D really is. They've played some suck ass QB's this year. If there's one guy that can torch them, it's Big Ben.

Eh, I don't see that.  Wilson already torched them a few months back.  Ryan or Rodgers could have a field day against them in the Super Bowl.  Given how poorly Ben plays on the road, I think he is just as likely to throw 2-3 picks as he is to torch them, if not moreso.

[King Postwhore]

I'm not saying elite guys. I just think our D is better than Pitts D. 

Oh and Rodgers can slice up any D.

[TAC]

It's hard to know how good their D really is. They've played some suck ass QB's this year. If there's one guy that can torch them, it's Big Ben.

Eh, I don't see that.  Wilson already torched them a few months back.  Ryan or Rodgers could have a field day against them in the Super Bowl.  Given how poorly Ben plays on the road, I think he is just as likely to throw 2-3 picks as he is to torch them, if not moreso.

Who have they played other than Wilson, as I mentioned Seattle in this post:

Plus this year, they didn't play anybody. Other than a home loss to Seattle.
 

I also agree with this:

Ryan or Rodgers could have a field day against them in the Super Bowl.   

No question about it.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with me on?

[mikeyd23]

Eh, I don't see that.  Wilson already torched them a few months back.  Ryan or Rodgers could have a field day against them in the Super Bowl.  Given how poorly Ben plays on the road, I think he is just as likely to throw 2-3 picks as he is to torch them, if not moreso.

I agree that it could go either way with Ben. I think for the Steelers to win Ben needs to play excellent, not great, not really good, excellent.

Bell has essentially carried this offense through their first two playoff games. You can't be a one-trick pony against BB, he will game plan for it, Ben needs to be able to complement Bell by having a monster day. If he doesn't and Haley feels like he needs to go one demensional and run, run, run, run... it won't work nearly as well against the Pats as it did against Miami and KC.

In terms of whose D is better, I honestly have no clue. I think the Pats are probably much better as a team defense, but from week to week the Steelers have had such mixed performances, it'll depend on who shows up Sunday, they are trending upward at the right time.

[Stadler]

Cowherd was just on the TV today saying that in his last 2 playoff games, Brady has completed 47% of passes with 3 TDs and 4 picks. Why does everyone seem to think Pit has NO chance? Like it's inconceivable that Bell and/or Brown could have big games or something? Like literally INCONCEIVABLE?

Anyway, I've found I can't make myself dislike Brady anymore. Not saying I like everything he does, but I love the way he competes.

You answered your own question.  The competition gets stiffer - let's not kid around here:  any of the four remaining teams are worthy Super Bowl Champions, and there's even one or two teams home now that would also be worthy champeens - and so maybe some of the "ease" goes away. He's GOING to be picked.  He's GOING to make mistakes (he's human, after all).   But he's also the guy that isn't sweating, and that will complete that 18 yarder to Edelman on third and 15, or after the ridiculous sack, hit Logan down the middle for 40 and a FIRST DOWN!

I'm all about the outcome, not the numbers.  I think if Brady was the star of the "Ask [Forum Member]" thread elsewhere on this forum, and you asked "0 TDs, 5 picks, 125 yards passing and a win, or 5TDs, 0 picks, 425 yards and a close loss as time runs out", he wouldn't even blink.   Well, no quarterback would blink.  Every QB in the league would say the right thing and take the win.  But here's the difference:  if on TUESDAY, Belichick and McDaniels come to Brady and says "look, the only way we're going to win this is let them get to you, dump the ball off and let Lewis and Edelman run.  You're going to get creamed.  Sacked 5, maybe 6 times.  You're not going to complete more than half your passes, you'll probably get picked at least 3 times, and I can't see any TDs from you, it'll be Blount from in close.    BUT WE'LL WIN."    Brady would be the first to say "Sign me up coach, I'm in.".    And he'd do it like a champ.   I don't see Camshaft doing that.  I don't see half the QBs - maybe more - in the league being able to do that.   When you add to that the fact that B and M could come to him and say "the only way we win is 500 yards, 6 TDs, and no picks", and he can do that TOO, and you have one of the greats of all time. 

[AngelBack]

Vegas has my Falcons 4 1/2 point favorites.  Like to know what they see or if they are chumming the waters for bets.  I see it even at best with the last team with the ball possibly the winner.

[Stadler]

One, if the Pack doesn't win the whole thing, it's not going to be because Rodgers didn't carve up the opposing D.  It's going to be the PACKERS D, and/or special teams.  Aaron is on fire, and he is really solid and unflappable at this point. His confidence has to be THROUGH THE ROOF.   

As for the Pats, I think we're forgetting a couple things:  one, it's a 60 minute game, in three phases.   The Pats can (not saying WILL, just CAN) beat you in any of the three phases.  That's their beauty.      Two, Belichick has a knack for removing a teams best player; that's not always good (they have been beaten in the past by the second or even third guy) but I have a feeling Le'Veon Bell is going to get 110 yards, 109 of them meaningless.  I think Ben is going to be on the move all game long, regardless, and if he's not 100%, it's going to be the difference.   

The one thing that can hurt the Pats is if they put the ball on the ground.  Not INTs, but fumbles, especially on special teams. That has hurt them in the past. 

[mikeyd23]

As for the Pats, I think we're forgetting a couple things:  one, it's a 60 minute game, in three phases.   The Pats can (not saying WILL, just CAN) beat you in any of the three phases.  That's their beauty.      Two, Belichick has a knack for removing a teams best player; that's not always good (they have been beaten in the past by the second or even third guy) but I have a feeling Le'Veon Bell is going to get 110 yards, 109 of them meaningless.  I think Ben is going to be on the move all game long, regardless, and if he's not 100%, it's going to be the difference. 

I totally agree with this, thats why I mentioned in my last post that I think Ben will need to be excellent to win this game. Bell alone will not be able to beat the Pats like he basically did against Miami and KC.

[Shooters1221]

As for the Pats, I think we're forgetting a couple things:  one, it's a 60 minute game, in three phases.   The Pats can (not saying WILL, just CAN) beat you in any of the three phases.  That's their beauty.      Two, Belichick has a knack for removing a teams best player; that's not always good (they have been beaten in the past by the second or even third guy) but I have a feeling Le'Veon Bell is going to get 110 yards, 109 of them meaningless.  I think Ben is going to be on the move all game long, regardless, and if he's not 100%, it's going to be the difference. 

I totally agree with this, thats why I mentioned in my last post that I think Ben will need to be excellent to win this game. Bell alone will not be able to beat the Pats like he basically did against Miami and KC.

I think I'm gonna go with Ben just has to be "really good". I think if Bell is at his usual standards, it SHOULD open up the passing game and dictate a well mixed game plan. That being said, I also think it depends on game situation and how the D will play against Brady and co. Like any game, if your down 2 or 3 TD's, then your passing more. So, if Ben just doesn't throw dumb INT's and receivers are not dropping balls, they could win this game with Ben not being perfect. Ahhhh, who knows.

[mikeyd23]

I think I'm gonna go with Ben just has to be "really good". I think if Bell is at his usual standards, it SHOULD open up the passing game and dictate a well mixed game plan. That being said, I also think it depends on game situation and how the D will play against Brady and co. Like any game, if your down 2 or 3 TD's, then your passing more. So, if Ben just doesn't throw dumb INT's and receivers are not dropping balls, they could win this game with Ben not being perfect. Ahhhh, who knows.

I just think they are going to need to pass more than they have in the last two games because Bell isn't going to be able to tear up the Pats as much as he has Miami and KC. Maybe he will, I'd love to be proven wrong. I just think BB has been watching tape on the Steelers offense and his take away probably is, "man if we can limit Bell, I'd rather take my chance with the passing game and make Ben try to beat us". That's not a knock on Ben, Bell has just been on one of the most insane offensive streaks I have ever seen in my life.

[Dublagent66]

1.  Packers:  Have been a fan since I was a kid.  And notwithstanding some things about Rodgers bugging me, I like him as a player (same for a number of their players).

Wait a minute.  I thought your were a Niners fan.

[Stadler]

We're all assuming of course that Patricia doesn't scheme to get Ben hobbling early.  I don't mean anything dirty, or untoward, but if I'm the Pats, the first series or two, I'm doing every thing I can to get pads on Ben on EVERY play.  He's glass, the Steelers are not the same team with Landry Jones, and Belichick knows it. 

[bosk1]

1.  Packers:  Have been a fan since I was a kid.  And notwithstanding some things about Rodgers bugging me, I like him as a player (same for a number of their players).

Wait a minute.  I thought your were a Niners fan.

Yes.  I can't be a fan of more than one team?  Growing up, the Niners were always my #1.  But I was also a fan of GB, Denver, and, to a lesser extent, the Marino/Shula Dolphins.  My fandom of GB and Denver has persisted regardless of players.  My fandom of Miami was more player/coach-centric than team-centric, I suppose.

[Shooters1221]

We're all assuming of course that Patricia doesn't scheme to get Ben hobbling early.  I don't mean anything dirty, or untoward, but if I'm the Pats, the first series or two, I'm doing every thing I can to get pads on Ben on EVERY play.  He's glass, the Steelers are not the same team with Landry Jones, and Belichick knows it.

He's glass?? That's funny! Brady breaks a fingernail and he's diving and crying to refs, sure enough, the next year there's a new rule stating that you can't touch a qb's fingernails.....He's glass....oh my. Yes though, if LJ has to play....goodnight Steelers.

[King Postwhore]

Ben's not glass at all.  He's just injury prone from his scrambling.


Brady only missed one season with the knee injury and besides that year never missed a game.

[Stadler]

We're all assuming of course that Patricia doesn't scheme to get Ben hobbling early.  I don't mean anything dirty, or untoward, but if I'm the Pats, the first series or two, I'm doing every thing I can to get pads on Ben on EVERY play.  He's glass, the Steelers are not the same team with Landry Jones, and Belichick knows it.

He's glass?? That's funny! Brady breaks a fingernail and he's diving and crying to refs, sure enough, the next year there's a new rule stating that you can't touch a qb's fingernails.....He's glass....oh my. Yes though, if LJ has to play....goodnight Steelers.

AND

Ben's not glass at all.  He's just injury prone from his scrambling.

For me, "glass" = "injury prone" from whatever reason.   He's always hurt. Whether that's because of hard-nosed play or just being fragile, we can debate that.  I'm actually a fan of Ben, I think he's a far better QB than Cam Newton or any of a number of guys that have amazing talent but haven't the first clue about how to win consistently and when you're not supposed to (like Brady). 

That one thinks that one QB or another is coddled by the league is not a part of this discussion. 

[TAC]

It's strange that both Gronk and Ben are so injury prone, being so huge.

[bosk1]

Speaking of QB's, there was an article on ESPN debating whether we have the best Championship Weekend Final 4 QB's of all time this year.  Interesting thought.  I'm hard pressed to find many years that come close.  1992 and 1993 may be close.  But outside of those years, I think this may just be the best final 4 QB's ever. 

Link here if anyone wanted to read it:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18496185/is-best-qb-final-four-nfl-history-2016-nfl-playoffs-conference-championships

[mikeyd23]

Yeah Ben isn't glass, he's one of the biggest, strongest, toughest QBs in the league easily. He has been injured a fair amount in his career due to mainly two reasons: (1) his aggressive tendency to extend plays by scrambling (which results in him getting hit A LOT) and (2) for a large portion of his career he had a below average (using a kind term) O-line.

As a Steeler guy and a Ben guy, I can openly admit that Ben has his faults and shortcomings, being fragile like glass isn't one of them. Heck, historically when he does get hurt, he heals quick and comes back before he is expected to partly because he is simply a tough dude.

*Waits for Kev to read this and make the point Ben usually has bad games when he comes back from injury cause he comes back to soon...*

[cramx3]

Yeah Ben isn't glass, he's one of the biggest, strongest, toughest QBs in the league easily. He has been injured a fair amount in his career due to mainly two reasons: (1) his aggressive tendency to extend plays by scrambling (which results in him getting hit A LOT) and (2) for a large portion of his career he had a below average (using a kind term) O-line.

As a Steeler guy and a Ben guy, I can openly admit that Ben has his faults and shortcomings, being fragile like glass isn't one of them. Heck, historically when he does get hurt, he heals quick and comes back before he is expected to partly because he is simply a tough dude.

*Waits for Kev to read this and make the point Ben usually has bad games when he comes back from injury cause he comes back to soon...*

I dont even like Ben, but I would agree that he is not fragile at all.  Guy takes a beating every week.   Of course he will get injured sometimes.  But he plays through lots of injuries too.  He's a tough SOB.

[TAC]

I think he's one of the toughest players in the league. He is always dangerous.

[Shooters1221]

We're all assuming of course that Patricia doesn't scheme to get Ben hobbling early.  I don't mean anything dirty, or untoward, but if I'm the Pats, the first series or two, I'm doing every thing I can to get pads on Ben on EVERY play.  He's glass, the Steelers are not the same team with Landry Jones, and Belichick knows it.

He's glass?? That's funny! Brady breaks a fingernail and he's diving and crying to refs, sure enough, the next year there's a new rule stating that you can't touch a qb's fingernails.....He's glass....oh my. Yes though, if LJ has to play....goodnight Steelers.

AND

Ben's not glass at all.  He's just injury prone from his scrambling.

For me, "glass" = "injury prone" from whatever reason.   He's always hurt. Whether that's because of hard-nosed play or just being fragile, we can debate that.  I'm actually a fan of Ben, I think he's a far better QB than Cam Newton or any of a number of guys that have amazing talent but haven't the first clue about how to win consistently and when you're not supposed to (like Brady). 

That one thinks that one QB or another is coddled by the league is not a part of this discussion.

Ok, maybe I can see your point of view that injury prone and glass could be considered similar. I think Ben's injury types would've injured any QB or any player given the same situations.

Of course I won't further my views on QB coddling as I do want to be "a part of this discussion".

[hefdaddy42]

Not sure if anyone else saw it, but apparently Aaron Rodgers literally made up the play with the long completion to set up the game-winning FG, playground style.

[faizoff]

Not sure if anyone else saw it, but apparently Aaron Rodgers literally made up the play with the long completion to set up the game-winning FG, playground style.

There's a very short clip you could see on TV right before the play in the huddle where he was making those gestures.

My pick is that it's going to be a Steelers v Falcons superbowl. It actually is really too close to call it, this is what I'm feeling right now.

[Shooters1221]

Not sure if anyone else saw it, but apparently Aaron Rodgers literally made up the play with the long completion to set up the game-winning FG, playground style.

I think he might have even mentioned it in post game. He's crazy good!

[Stadler]

We're all assuming of course that Patricia doesn't scheme to get Ben hobbling early.  I don't mean anything dirty, or untoward, but if I'm the Pats, the first series or two, I'm doing every thing I can to get pads on Ben on EVERY play.  He's glass, the Steelers are not the same team with Landry Jones, and Belichick knows it.

He's glass?? That's funny! Brady breaks a fingernail and he's diving and crying to refs, sure enough, the next year there's a new rule stating that you can't touch a qb's fingernails.....He's glass....oh my. Yes though, if LJ has to play....goodnight Steelers.

AND

Ben's not glass at all.  He's just injury prone from his scrambling.

For me, "glass" = "injury prone" from whatever reason.   He's always hurt. Whether that's because of hard-nosed play or just being fragile, we can debate that.  I'm actually a fan of Ben, I think he's a far better QB than Cam Newton or any of a number of guys that have amazing talent but haven't the first clue about how to win consistently and when you're not supposed to (like Brady). 

That one thinks that one QB or another is coddled by the league is not a part of this discussion.

Ok, maybe I can see your point of view that injury prone and glass could be considered similar. I think Ben's injury types would've injured any QB or any player given the same situations.

Of course I won't further my views on QB coddling as I do want to be "a part of this discussion".

HAHA, I don't want to sound like I'm dictating the conversation!  It's a good topic, I was just saying that I wasn't thinking of that when I went down this path. 

I also clearly am using the wrong terms here, and that's my fault.  I'm not suggesting that Ben isn't one of - if not THE - toughest QBs in the league.  I admire the guy, and think he's excellent.  I was just saying, though, that I think he can be gotten to physically.  I think you can take advantage of his wanting to extend every play to the last drop.  The human body can only take so much, he's 34, and every hit adds up.

I'm certainly am not criticizing Ben; I'm more thinking in terms of team strategy than anything else.

[Dublagent66]

1.  Packers:  Have been a fan since I was a kid.  And notwithstanding some things about Rodgers bugging me, I like him as a player (same for a number of their players).

Wait a minute.  I thought your were a Niners fan.

Yes.  I can't be a fan of more than one team?  Growing up, the Niners were always my #1.  But I was also a fan of GB, Denver, and, to a lesser extent, the Marino/Shula Dolphins.  My fandom of GB and Denver has persisted regardless of players.  My fandom of Miami was more player/coach-centric than team-centric, I suppose.

I don't recall saying anything about what you "can't" do.  For me, it's always been one team.  More than one is like having more than one girlfriend.  What happens when they meet?   Overall, I'm a fan of football.  I enjoy watching most teams play, but I'm a one team kinda guy.

[KevShmev]

One, if the Pack doesn't win the whole thing, it's not going to be because Rodgers didn't carve up the opposing D.  It's going to be the PACKERS D, and/or special teams.  Aaron is on fire, and he is really solid and unflappable at this point. His confidence has to be THROUGH THE ROOF.   

As for the Pats, I think we're forgetting a couple things:  one, it's a 60 minute game, in three phases.   The Pats can (not saying WILL, just CAN) beat you in any of the three phases.  That's their beauty.      Two, Belichick has a knack for removing a teams best player; that's not always good (they have been beaten in the past by the second or even third guy) but I have a feeling Le'Veon Bell is going to get 110 yards, 109 of them meaningless.  I think Ben is going to be on the move all game long, regardless, and if he's not 100%, it's going to be the difference.   

The one thing that can hurt the Pats is if they put the ball on the ground.  Not INTs, but fumbles, especially on special teams. That has hurt them in the past.

Eh, that is a narrative I do not buy into, and I think it mushroomed into this large myth after that Saints game years ago when Jimmy Graham was held without a catch.  Now all of a sudden people act like Belichick will simply take away a team's best player.  It's rubbish.

Did he take away Von Miller, the Broncos best player, in last year's AFCCG?

It's hard to know how good their D really is. They've played some suck ass QB's this year. If there's one guy that can torch them, it's Big Ben.

Eh, I don't see that.  Wilson already torched them a few months back.  Ryan or Rodgers could have a field day against them in the Super Bowl.  Given how poorly Ben plays on the road, I think he is just as likely to throw 2-3 picks as he is to torch them, if not moreso.

Who have they played other than Wilson, as I mentioned Seattle in this post:

Plus this year, they didn't play anybody. Other than a home loss to Seattle.
 

I also agree with this:

Ryan or Rodgers could have a field day against them in the Super Bowl.   

No question about it.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with me on?

You saying, "If there's one guy that can torch them, it's Big Ben," came off to me as, "Ben is the only QB good enough in the NFL to torch the Patriots."  That is what I disagree with.