Poll

Who is your FAVORITE NFL Team!

Arizona Cardinals
1 (1.2%)
Atlanta Falcons
1 (1.2%)
Baltimore Ravens
3 (3.5%)
Buffalo Bills
1 (1.2%)
Carolina Panthers
6 (7%)
Chicago Bears
2 (2.3%)
Cincinnati Bengals
0 (0%)
Cleveland Browns
0 (0%)
Dallas Cowboys
1 (1.2%)
Denver Broncos
5 (5.8%)
Detroit Lions
1 (1.2%)
Green Bay Packers
9 (10.5%)
Houston Texans
1 (1.2%)
Indianapolis Colts
1 (1.2%)
Jacksonville Jaguars
0 (0%)
Kansas City Chiefs
1 (1.2%)
Los Angeles Rams
1 (1.2%)
Miami Dolphins
2 (2.3%)
Minnesota Vikings
4 (4.7%)
New England Patriots
13 (15.1%)
New Orleans Saints
0 (0%)
New York Giants
4 (4.7%)
New York Jets
4 (4.7%)
Oakland Raiders
1 (1.2%)
Philadelphia Eagles
3 (3.5%)
Pittsburgh Steelers
8 (9.3%)
San Diego Chargers
1 (1.2%)
San Francisco 49ers
4 (4.7%)
Seattle Seahawks
7 (8.1%)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 (1.2%)
Tennessee Titans
0 (0%)
Washington Redskins
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 86

Author Topic: 2016 NFL THREAD - Super Bowl 51 - Patriots' Day: V - Screw Goodell  (Read 218558 times)

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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2415 on: December 21, 2016, 10:05:19 AM »
If they were to fine Elliot, the only way I would say that's alright is if the fine went to salvation army and not to the league.  Like do somehting good with that money, but in reality it just doesn't make sense given the context.

So the giants got some big fine and the 4th round pick moved to the last in the 4th round due to the walkie talkie fiasco.  I'm fine with that as a Giants fan.  They broke a rule and should be penalized.  What I don't understand are some of the media and fans saying it wasn't harsh enough for cheating.  Maybe I am looking through blue goggles, but I don't really see this as cheating, but not properly following protocol when the headsets stop working.  It was only for one drive and did not seem to have an impact on the game so I am not sure why the Giants are being compared to other teams who have cheated in the past.

The penalty was too lenient. Having that walkie talkie for 5 plays is a huge advantage considering that the allowable headsets cut off with 15 seconds left on the playclock.  Like,... what was porn stache thinking? To have your draft pick moved down instead of taken away is a slap to the face of any Patriots fan who has endured the league's penalties for past transgressions... both legitimate and otherwise.

Im thinking he didn't know the rules on walkie talkies.  Which is ok, ignorance does not make it OK.  And I agree that if they were talking after that 15 second cut off, then it does give an advantage, but dealing on the fly with a broken headset gives them a disadvantage for a moment too just to resettle into the walkie talkies, but then as you mention, it's only 5 plays.  Not like the game was blown because of it, heck they didn't even score on that drive, and the intent was not to cheat.  Granted, if they lost the 4th round pick too then I probably wouldn't complain either.  I just don't get the comparisons of cheating when a team was just trying to deal with the situation on hand not intently trying to go around the system.

They did go around the system. That's the thing.

5 plays in a game that ended up being 10-7 could have made a huge difference.

Whatever happened to QBs thinking on their own... not relying on coach in their headset? I would think Eli's been doing this long enough (read, his whole life) to be alright without communications from the sidelines.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2416 on: December 21, 2016, 10:15:09 AM »
It honestly seems like it was much ado about nothing. Still, it's nice to see that rules apply to teams that aren't the Patriots.

As long as we're on the subject of the Giants and that integrity of the game bullshit, I'm surprised the under-inflated balls in the Giants/Steelers game never came up. "But commissioner Goodel, they were tested on the sideline and were more than a pound underweight?"


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Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2417 on: December 21, 2016, 06:05:32 PM »
Just found out the douchebags in charge are only airing the Steelers-Ravens game on NFL Network.  :tdwn

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2418 on: December 21, 2016, 07:02:14 PM »
Really looking forward to what should be an epic clash between the Steelers and Ravens with the division title and playoff berth on the line. I anticipate a hard-hitting had-fought game without the constant after-the-whistle nonsense that happens with Burfict and Pacman. The teams are bitter rivals but respect each other a great deal.

Talking to a Steelers fan/co-worker this morning about precisely the same thing. Cincinnati's dirty play has undone the Steelers last two playoff runs. The Steelers and Ravens rivalry is still among the league's best, and the teams go about it the right way. The Bengals are too toxic to find themselves in the same breath.

Yes and no.  The Broncos were better than the Steelers last year, so you can't clearly saying, "Antonio Brown not playing is why they lost."  It sure helped the Broncos, but the way the Steelers play offense that game and the Broncos play defense completely changes if Brown is in that game. 

So the giants got some big fine and the 4th round pick moved to the last in the 4th round due to the walkie talkie fiasco.  I'm fine with that as a Giants fan.  They broke a rule and should be penalized.  What I don't understand are some of the media and fans saying it wasn't harsh enough for cheating.  Maybe I am looking through blue goggles, but I don't really see this as cheating, but not properly following protocol when the headsets stop working.  It was only for one drive and did not seem to have an impact on the game so I am not sure why the Giants are being compared to other teams who have cheated in the past.

Because Patriots fans have this persecution complex, as if their team is the only one that NFL has laid the hammer down on, ignoring the fact that the penalty the Saints got a few years ago was more harsh than any the Patriots have received this century.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2419 on: December 21, 2016, 07:06:04 PM »
I think we are looking for equality when we know how imperfect the league is.  Let's not pretend what owners are in charge here Kev.

Just because the Saints got railroaded doesn't mean we are blind.  It's the other penalties or lack of that frustrate us.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2420 on: December 21, 2016, 07:52:04 PM »
Equality is a pipe dream.

As for what owners are in charge, Kraft is one of them. 

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2421 on: December 21, 2016, 08:12:37 PM »
It is and you well know even in the owners there is a hierarchy.   

And jealousy.   And Goodell is their puppet.   Protect the owners unless the other owners want blood.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2422 on: December 21, 2016, 09:46:33 PM »
If equality is a pipe dream why even watch the game? Inequality in the talent and skill of the clubs makes it a sport. Inequality in the rules makes it a farce.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2423 on: December 22, 2016, 03:59:24 AM »
Exactly. The owners want to punish as they please.  2020 will be very interesting.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2424 on: December 22, 2016, 06:34:37 AM »
So the giants got some big fine and the 4th round pick moved to the last in the 4th round due to the walkie talkie fiasco.  I'm fine with that as a Giants fan.  They broke a rule and should be penalized.  What I don't understand are some of the media and fans saying it wasn't harsh enough for cheating.  Maybe I am looking through blue goggles, but I don't really see this as cheating, but not properly following protocol when the headsets stop working.  It was only for one drive and did not seem to have an impact on the game so I am not sure why the Giants are being compared to other teams who have cheated in the past.

Because Patriots fans have this persecution complex, as if their team is the only one that NFL has laid the hammer down on, ignoring the fact that the penalty the Saints got a few years ago was more harsh than any the Patriots have received this century.

And what they did was more harsh.  That's not a real comparison.  I don't see any scenario short of a Rube Goldberg device that gets 16 under-inflated footballs to translate into ending the career of a young, talented player.  The Saint's guillotine scheme could have done that on just about any play from scrimmage. 

As for what owners are in charge, Kraft is one of them. 

So how does that play out?  No matter how you look at it, no matter if you're the biggest Jets fan on the planet, Goodell f-ed the Patriots.  If Kraft is really the "man behind the curtain" (or one of them) how does that play in?   It's a great theory, but no theory can just ignore the facts that don't conveniently fit in.   

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2425 on: December 22, 2016, 06:39:02 AM »
Just found out the douchebags in charge are only airing the Steelers-Ravens game on NFL Network.  :tdwn

For real? You local to Pittsburgh? I think the local broadcast is WPXI 11 (NBC's station in Pittsburgh)...

Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2426 on: December 22, 2016, 07:07:44 AM »
Just found out the douchebags in charge are only airing the Steelers-Ravens game on NFL Network.  :tdwn

For real? You local to Pittsburgh? I think the local broadcast is WPXI 11 (NBC's station in Pittsburgh)...

Not local. Also, lol:

https://twitter.com/WizardOfBoz09

"random" drug test  :lol

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2427 on: December 22, 2016, 07:47:29 AM »
Not local. Also, lol:

https://twitter.com/WizardOfBoz09

"random" drug test  :lol

Yeah I saw that too  :lol

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2428 on: December 22, 2016, 10:45:15 AM »
I've caught flack on this page thru the years for being bold enough to put Cousins before RG3 before it was cool... Luck before RG3 before it was no brainer.... Brady's 2013 season being more impressive than Manning's 2013 season etc........ so it should come as no surprise that I wholeheartedly agree with this....




Oh and Dak in the pro bowl before Drew Brees.... do they not understand what a Pro Bowl is?  Oh well.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2429 on: December 22, 2016, 10:51:08 AM »
One of those guys helped to lead a team to a completely unexpected 12-2 record. The other is languishing in an underachieving 5-8-1 club. Picking an MVP out of those two is child's play.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2430 on: December 22, 2016, 11:05:29 AM »
One of those guys helped to lead a team to a completely unexpected 12-2 record. The other is languishing in an underachieving 5-8-1 club. Picking an MVP out of those two is child's play.

True, MVP doesn't usually come from a losing team, but I do think he's had a much better season and maybe is a better running back than Elliott but to be most valuable means you need to be on a winning team.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2431 on: December 22, 2016, 11:20:23 AM »
So I have a coworker that got a DWI quite a few years back. She and her husband went to a friend's house with the intention of spending the night there and drinking a bottle of Wellers (her biggest sin, IMO). They were up late drinking and eventually all went to bed. Later that night she was awakened by a cop from a near comatose state in her car in a ditch off the side of the road. She had absolutely no recollection of anything beyond deciding it was time to go to bed. Her best guess was that maybe she decided to go for a pack of smokes or something, but had no understanding of how she got to where she was. This was total blackout territory. I can't help but to think that the punitive aspect of DWI enforcement is meaningless in a situation such as this. She made no conscious decision to drive drunk. Her mistake, aside from the quality of hooch, was in getting so drunk in the first place, but that's no crime and she had every intention of doing so responsibly.

Now, I'm not putting this out there to defend her actions. She's the first to accept responsibility for what went down, even if was beyond her control. Yet I just read a scathing editorial about the Patriot's signing of Michael Floyd, and I can't help but think that the newly released details of his arrest are being used make the thing more egregious than I think it was. From my standpoint some dumb frat-boy driving with a .10 has far more culpability than somebody who's fucked up to the point of losing any semblance of functionality, mental or physical. If he'd just been your run of the mill variety DUI, rather than some "super extreme" thing, people would be rightly calling for him to receive the standard NFL sanction. I believe that's a 1 game suspension and 2 game checks. I might actually call that a little too lenient. But between his remarkably high BAC and the video of him passed out he's suddenly history's greatest monster. The fact that it was the Patriots that signed him certainly doesn't lessen people's indignation.

People here already know my opinion that DWI enforcement is remarkably full of shit, but this case isn't applicable. I want people punished for driving while impaired. Yet I'd like for the punishment to be tied to reason rather than emotion, and I don't think that's the case here. Whether that applies to the State of Arizona is probably better discussed in a forum we can no longer use, but as it applies to the NFL is a different matter. Here's an instance where Goodell might well be inclined to use the standard penalty yet has no choice to but to ring him up indefinitely because of the perceived severity of the offense. This is why rules matter.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2432 on: December 22, 2016, 11:27:24 AM »
David Johnson should be the offensive player of the year, but his team is 5-8-1, so he doesn't belong anywhere near the MVP discussion.

Stadler, compared to the Saints losing their coach for a year, the punishment the Patriots received for Spygate was a slap on the wrist. 

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2433 on: December 22, 2016, 12:00:43 PM »
I agree Kev but at the time that was the Bigest penalty and just the start of Goodell's reign of terror.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2434 on: December 22, 2016, 12:07:34 PM »
People seem to forget that the Cowboys were 12-4 in 2014, and what all went wrong for them in 2015. It's not like this was a team that has been sad for years.  This was a championship contending team from jump street and their o-line should split the MVP award. Zekes good....but if Murray was still there...they're probably still right where they are....probably better since that 4th overall pick could have gone elsewhere.

NFL League MVP and the Heisman Trophy.....more often then not....terrible awards.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2435 on: December 22, 2016, 12:39:53 PM »
People seem to forget that the Cowboys were 12-4 in 2014, and what all went wrong for them in 2015. It's not like this was a team that has been sad for years.  This was a championship contending team from jump street and their o-line should split the MVP award. Zekes good....but if Murray was still there...they're probably still right where they are....probably better since that 4th overall pick could have gone elsewhere.

Exactly this, that's why a player with great stats on a good team doesn't mean that player is the "most valuable player" in the league.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2436 on: December 22, 2016, 03:09:06 PM »
MVPs usually get rewarded for having better teammates.

Offline cramx3

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2437 on: December 22, 2016, 04:22:54 PM »
Win and in for the Giants tonight!  :yarr

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2438 on: December 22, 2016, 05:49:53 PM »
NFL League MVP and the Heisman Trophy.....more often then not....terrible awards.

I agree that the Heisman is terrible if you measure it to how it translates to the NFL. Most of the guys who win it have terrible, or mediocre pro careers.
All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2439 on: December 22, 2016, 06:53:58 PM »
MVPs usually get rewarded for having better teammates.

This is more prevalent in baseball I'd wager.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2440 on: December 22, 2016, 07:04:13 PM »
MVPs usually get rewarded for having better teammates.

This is more prevalent in baseball I'd wager.

Not this year...Mike Trout won the AL MVP despite his team not contending.

Offline TAC

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2441 on: December 22, 2016, 07:08:06 PM »
I don't even think Betts was the Sox' MVP. It was definitely Ortiz.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2442 on: December 22, 2016, 07:17:07 PM »
MVPs usually get rewarded for having better teammates.

This is more prevalent in baseball I'd wager.

Not this year...Mike Trout won the AL MVP despite his team not contending.

Broken clock, etc. Trout should've had more MVPs but there are a lot of people out there that, incorrectly, think "Well this guy wasn't on a playoff team so...".

Back to football, Giants have GOT to stop convincing themselves that they have a running game. I know it's part of the game but they have their back running directly into the middle of a converging O-Line/D-Line more often than not.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2443 on: December 22, 2016, 07:32:25 PM »
What a fucking bullshit roughing the passer call.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2444 on: December 22, 2016, 07:33:50 PM »
What a fucking bullshit roughing the passer call.


That was terrible.

Dak is having a great year...but it's clear that he isn't in Wentz's league. Dude is legit.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2445 on: December 22, 2016, 10:02:50 PM »
The superficial Cowboys fans from New York, which I still don't get, are having their fun.

Offline cramx3

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2446 on: December 22, 2016, 10:09:02 PM »
Giants cant come from behind this year.  They had so many opportunities thanks to defensive stops, but couldn't get a touchdown when needed and the refs certainly didn't make things easier

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2447 on: December 22, 2016, 10:16:42 PM »
Refs were certainly odd this game. They called the love tap/innocent slide as roughing the passer but neglected to call the blatant defensive entanglement on Shepard as PI.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2448 on: December 22, 2016, 11:53:57 PM »
Refs were certainly odd this game. They called the love tap/innocent slide as roughing the passer but neglected to call the blatant defensive entanglement on Shepard as PI.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: 2016 NFL THREAD - The Carr Drives to the Playoffs
« Reply #2449 on: December 23, 2016, 12:16:04 AM »
Wentz went all out on that flop, too, my goodness.