The Astonishing (musical analysis)

[shredd]

Thought I'd would create our inevitable musical analysis page, lets start discussing everything about the compositions found within The Astonishing
There is also a thread for story and concepts analysis if you wanna check that out.
Personally I will listen to the album more before analyzing either but go for your life people! 

[RAIN]

1 - Let me start by saying no song should EVER fade out...

2 - With the above said, being a concept/story album I'm a bit surprised by how few songs seem to cross/fade/mix into the next one.  Most just end.  Of course, that's better than fadeouts....

[shredd]

1 - Let me start by saying no song should EVER fade out...

2 - With the above said, being a concept/story album I'm a bit surprised by how few songs seem to cross/fade/mix into the next one.  Most just end.  Of course, that's better than fade-outs....

That's interesting, personally I've never had a problem with fade-outs or cross-fades when they fit, but I get where you're coming from and I suppose it does make things difficult in a live setting, I think I like the idea of fade-outs because it can imply that that musical passage just goes on and on forever once the 'track' has already reached it's conclusion, so I suppose it fits awesome for The Astonishing, but that's my opinion, thanks for the intriguing input!

[DragonGuitar]

I like cross-fades, I think they are cool. But I don't like when a song just fades out, it lacks conclusion. When it fades into a new song, its like it just one long song. The best is like what they did on a lot of SFAM, where the songs fade into each other seamlessly, while playing absolutely fine and having a sense of beginning and conclusion when played alone.

My fist general impressions of this album musically: Overall, it is very symphonic, operatic, epic, etc. It gave me chills several times. I think some of DT's most emotional songs are on this album. I think in many ways this album is piano driven, and it also uses acoustic guitar very frequently- I think it works. But, it gets progressively heavy until the middle parts of Act II, which are the heaviest bits of the album, as the story is the most intense. I think the album overall has a great sense of flow, even without the songs crossfading. I would say it is probably JLB's best performance on an album for a long long time, maybe even since Images and Words. Catchy choruses abound, and the album has a lot of a focus on melody in a sort of operatic way, which fits his style.

I was also impressed by the diversity of some of the tracks. TGOM is anthemic and Rush like, Lord Nafaryus features a metal tango, Three Days has a great groove and a swing jazz blastbeat section, A Life Left Behind has a great, classic prog feeling intro, The X Aspect features bagpipes, and many other songs have either a classic metal feeling, or are piano driven. And then... there's the NOMAC tracks. Don't know what to say about those. But I think its in many ways a very innovative album, both in the little details like I mentioned here and in the overall concept, it just has a huge scope.

There, not a very detailed musical analysis, just some of my first thoughts.

[erwinrafael]

From a musical standpoint, I love how the musical themes are well thought-out in representing characters:

Arhys - usually soaring vocals; generally prog rock or a marching theme as accompaniment (except in the X Aspect).

Gabriel - gentle breathy male vocals with acoustic guitar as accompaniment; shifts to soaring vocals ala Arhys with melodic prog rock accompaniment

Faythe - soft vocals with the distinct piano melody

Lord Nafaryus - rough vocals, with relatively heavy accompaniment a throwback to old musical styles to reflect his past (tango in Lord Nafaryus, swing jazz in Three Days, 1980s "Billie Jean" style beat in A New Beginning). I love how he shifts to a very gentle style when he thinks fondly of his family in Lord Nafaryus an, of course, in Losing Faythe.

Daryus - rough vocals, usually metal accompaniment. And his big scenes is often followed by a NOMAC "song".

The intro of Savior in the Square that is basically the theme of Our New World seems to mark the scenes where there is a union of the three central characters:  Gabriel, Faythe and Lord Nafaryus.

[mikemangioy]

What I like is that the band invested again in recurring themes. I think that it's one of the things that they can do best, and it shows on this album. I love the whole feel of cohesiveness and dang, some of these melodies are just touching.

[RoeDent]

One of my favourite things about digesting a new album like this is learning where all the recurring ideas happen. When listening in full for the first couple of times, especially with an album so long, it's difficult to remember all the themes (and hence, where they recur). However, I'm beginning to spot them, with repeated listens to individual songs. These are the ones I've spotted, and there could be more occurrences of each theme that I haven't spotted yet.

There's a lovely theme in D major which occurs in Dystopian Overture (with gospel choir in the background), Brother, Can You Hear Me? (main vocal melody), and Astonishing (again, when the vocals come in and at the end).

A Savior in the Square and Our New World are based on the same chord progression.

[Enigmachine]

What I like is that the band invested again in recurring themes. I think that it's one of the things that they can do best, and it shows on this album. I love the whole feel of cohesiveness and dang, some of these melodies are just touching.

Yes, there were so many moments where I was like "oh cool, I remember that bit". I think the best example is when the chorus of 'When Your Time Has Come' is put into 'The Path That Divides' as an echo from Gabriel. Perfectly placed.

[porcacultor]

There's stuff that only "hit" me on the second time going into it. I was in love with Our New World from the first time I heard it, and then I heard its "prequel" on (I think) savior in the square and was like OHHHHHH YESSSS

[shredd]

Alright so after spending a month with The Astonishing today I shall finally begin my in depth, musical analysis.
This should be up either today or tomorrow, and will be in table form.
What it will include:

Notes on all musical themes that recur/reprise/repeat throughout the album
What themes are attached to what characters
Certain themes will receive extra notes explaining the purpose of the theme or variation thereof
Recurring lyrical themes
Quotes of past DT music within the album
Other nuggets/Easter Eggs

(not sure if this will include the NOMAC tracks yet)

[SebastianPratesi]

Alright so after spending a month with The Astonishing today I shall finally begin my in depth, musical analysis.
This should be up either today or tomorrow, and will be in table form.
What it will include:

Notes on all musical themes that recur/reprise/repeat throughout the album
What themes are attached to what characters
Certain themes will receive extra notes explaining the purpose of the theme or variation thereof
Recurring lyrical themes
Quotes of past DT music within the album
Other nuggets/Easter Eggs

(not sure if this will include the NOMAC tracks yet)

Hey, I'm interested! Hope I get to read it soon.

[shredd]

Alright so after spending a month with The Astonishing today I shall finally begin my in depth, musical analysis.
This should be up either today or tomorrow, and will be in table form.
What it will include:

Notes on all musical themes that recur/reprise/repeat throughout the album
What themes are attached to what characters
Certain themes will receive extra notes explaining the purpose of the theme or variation thereof
Recurring lyrical themes
Quotes of past DT music within the album
Other nuggets/Easter Eggs

(not sure if this will include the NOMAC tracks yet)

Hey, I'm interested! Hope I get to read it soon.

Hey man, I'm super glad you're interested! it looks more likely that it will be tomorrow, it's taken me an hour and a half just to get Lord Nafaryus, I guess there's just "So much I have to say"

Update though, I will be including the NOMAC tracks to some extent

[SebastianPratesi]

Hey man, I'm super glad you're interested! it looks more likely that it will be tomorrow, it's taken me an hour and a half just to get Lord Nafaryus, I guess there's just "So much I have to say"

Update though, I will be including the NOMAC tracks to some extent

A few weeks ago I did my own breakdown of themes/recurrent chord progressions, etc. (it's posted in another thread here). There are a few songs on which I don't hear any recurrent stuff, so your post will probably be an interesting read.

That's cool about the NOMACs!

[shredd]

Hey man, I'm super glad you're interested! it looks more likely that it will be tomorrow, it's taken me an hour and a half just to get Lord Nafaryus, I guess there's just "So much I have to say"

Update though, I will be including the NOMAC tracks to some extent

A few weeks ago I did my own breakdown of themes/recurrent chord progressions, etc. (it's posted in another thread here). There are a few songs on which I don't hear any recurrent stuff, so your post will probably be an interesting read.

That's cool about the NOMACs!

Link to yours? I'd love to have a read!

further update: I will be mostly steering clear of comparison to other bands music as it is covered in another thread and I wanted to keep this analysis purely DT related

[SebastianPratesi]

Link to yours? I'd love to have a read!

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45892.msg2098215#msg2098215

The discussion on that thread was interesting too. Other members spotted other stuff which I hadn't noticed.

Good night!

[shredd]

Link to yours? I'd love to have a read!

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45892.msg2098215#msg2098215

The discussion on that thread was interesting too. Other members spotted other stuff which I hadn't noticed.

Good night!

Thanks! I'll have a look at it only once I'm done with mine, it would be awesome if eventually we can all combine everyone's efforts for the ultimate analysis resource

[SebastianPratesi]

Thanks! I'll have a look at it only once I'm done with mine, it would be awesome if eventually we can all combine everyone's efforts for the ultimate analysis resource

For sure! Although there doesn't appear to be much interest in the musical recurrences anymore. But, it's a nice idea.

[shredd]

Oh but it will be so much more than musical recurrence!
and in any case I'm sure a select few would enjoy/benefit anyway.
especially in the future once the hype has faded. I still love to analyse SFAM after all these years for example.

[SebastianPratesi]

Oh but it will be so much more than musical recurrence!
and in any case I'm sure a select few would enjoy/benefit anyway.
especially in the future once the hype has faded. I still love to analyse SFAM after all these years for example.

Well, count me in, then!

[fischermasamune]

For sure! Although there doesn't appear to be much interest in the musical recurrences anymore. But, it's a nice idea.

People just don't have the time for music anymore...

[shredd]

Turns out this may take longer than I originally thought, every time I think I'm nearly finished a suite, a find more to analyze or connect 
I want to make sure this as solid as I can make so I'm not gonna upload something when I find more to add, sorry for anyone who is waiting on it

[erwinrafael]

After my last listen through, I find that The Astonishing is not really much of a two-act piece, but more of broken down into seven four-to-five-song chapters (excluding the overtures and some NOMAC tracks)

Chapter 1. Introduction to the world of TA (15:11)
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus

Chapter 2. The Faytheful meeting (17:18)
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days

Chapter 3. The Faytheful choice (21:34)
Brother, Can You Hear Me?
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
Chosen

Chapter 4. The offers, both Daryus to Arhys and Faythe to Nafaryus (19:49)
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
The Road to Revolution

Chapter 5. Arhys' betrayal (19:35)
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
The Path that Divides

Chapter 6. The Faythe-al tragedy ( (12:33)
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Whispers on the Wind

Chapter 7. The triumph of music (15:07)
Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World
Power Down
Astonishing

[shredd]

After my last listen through, I find that The Astonishing is not really much of a two-act piece, but more of broken down into seven four-to-five-song chapters (excluding the overtures and some NOMAC tracks)

Chapter 1. Introduction to the world of TA (15:11)
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus

Chapter 2. The Faytheful meeting (17:18)
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days

Chapter 3. The Faytheful choice (21:34)
Brother, Can You Hear Me?
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
Chosen

Chapter 4. The offers, both Daryus to Arhys and Faythe to Nafaryus (19:49)
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
The Road to Revolution

Chapter 5. Arhys' betrayal (19:35)
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
The Path that Divides

Chapter 6. The Faythe-al tragedy ( (12:33)
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Whispers on the Wind

Chapter 7. The triumph of music (15:07)
Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World
Power Down
Astonishing

Nice! I tend to view them more as four suites divided by the NOMAC tracks and Astonishing is the epilogue

[Enigmachine]

After my last listen through, I find that The Astonishing is not really much of a two-act piece, but more of broken down into seven four-to-five-song chapters (excluding the overtures and some NOMAC tracks)

Chapter 1. Introduction to the world of TA (15:11)
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nafaryus

Chapter 2. The Faytheful meeting (17:18)
A Savior in the Square
When Your Time Has Come
Act of Faythe
Three Days

Chapter 3. The Faytheful choice (21:34)
Brother, Can You Hear Me?
A Life Left Behind
Ravenskill
Chosen

Chapter 4. The offers, both Daryus to Arhys and Faythe to Nafaryus (19:49)
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
A New Beginning
The Road to Revolution

Chapter 5. Arhys' betrayal (19:35)
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven's Cove
Begin Again
The Path that Divides

Chapter 6. The Faythe-al tragedy ( (12:33)
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Whispers on the Wind

Chapter 7. The triumph of music (15:07)
Hymn of a Thousand Voices
Our New World
Power Down
Astonishing

Them Faythe puns... 

Compiling the tracks into various suites is probably a good idea. 2112 was basically like one of these chunks, with parts inside that could be considered songs on their own as well as some parts divided by silencem but yet worked more as a whole in spite of that. I would go for this division though:

1. The Ravenskill Rebel Militia - Tracks 1-5 (16:34)
2. Lord Nafaryus Arrives - Tracks 6-11 (21:13)
3. What Lies Ahead - Tracks 12-17 (26:40)
4. See Which Choice Is Right - Tracks 18-20 (15:28)
5. Where the Stars Touch the Sky - Tracks 1-3 (12:51)
6. May Life Begin Again - Tracks 4-9 (22:35)
7. A Better World - Tracks 10-14 (15:05)

[fischermasamune]

Erwinrafael's choices make a lot of sense. I would've added the overtures and NOMACs though.

[Enigmachine]

The groupings make sense, but I think the way in which the chunks were revealed also made sense as a grouping, with ATO joined with DD ending the third part and ABL concluding a purely Arhys + Gabriel section.

[Ben_Jamin]

I did that when I imported into my iPod. Although Erwin looks more better.

I also did the same with The Theory of Everything, imported them into phases.

[Enigmachine]

I did that when I imported into my iPod. Although Erwin looks more better.

I also did the same with The Theory of Everything, imported them into phases.

It's a bit easier with TToE though, given that it is actually clearly labelled as four epics. TA is written as a whole, but many songs have a self-contained structure with less smooth transitions, so it's much harder to tell.

[erwinrafael]

Erwinrafael's choices make a lot of sense. I would've added the overtures and NOMACs though.

Yeah, I was thinking more of the songs that moved the plot forward. But the Overtures and NOMAC tracks would add texture.

[Ben_Jamin]

I really had hoped the OP would've continued with this after finding this thread again. I was thinking of starting this discussion again, regardless if it doesn't garner much attention.

For those of us interested, it would be neat to just discuss the things we can hear musically in the album, like certain themes being reprised, how these certain themes enhance the story, how certain styles and tone choices are used for certain characters (JLB's vocal style choices being an example).

One I will contribute now is...

In Three Days, in the verse after the intro, the tone of the keyboards has the same tone as in the outro section of The Gift of Music. For me this tone represents the NOMACS. It's a mechanical, cold sort of tone and whenever I hear it, that's what I think of. And this tone being incorporated here with Lord Nefaryus makes me imagine him using these NOMACS as a sort of threat. "Need I remind you here"

[Wim Kruithof]

Probably known by all of you, but there is a nice three-episodes long conversation from Petrucci and Rudess on Youtube, where-in they expand more on the themes and how they're build up. I've seen it several times and it really helps enjoying The Astonishing even more.

[Chino]

Probably known by all of you, but there is a nice three-episodes long conversation from Petrucci and Rudess on Youtube, where-in they expand more on the themes and how they're build up. I've seen it several times and it really helps enjoying The Astonishing even more.

I really wish they kept that going!

[Wim Kruithof]

Me too Chino, really helps in understanding the whole concept.