*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[BlobVanDam]

We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree".

Proggy is anti-fun? Ok...

I don't get that either. That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it. 

That comparison would assume that prog is supposed to be fun. It's more like finding solving complex math problems fun. Some people will find fun in it, but it doesn't mean that solving complex math problems is generally considered a fun activity.

And oh god, Adam Sandler movies. Just WHY?

[red barchetta]

Progressive rock music has always mean to me great musicianship. Progressive rock musicians are very talented. Lots of them have classical background.

[Enigmachine]

It's more like finding solving complex math problems fun.

No, it's not. I don't need to figure out all the intricacies in BAI's intro to find it fun. It's got an energetic tempo, a playful melody and it's unpredictably varying, making it exciting and FUN. Genres don't make music fun or not fun.

[Prog Snob]

We definitely have very different concepts of fun, because to me you're mostly describing proggy, which to me is anti-fun. "Jovial" is not a word that comes to mind with BAI.

I think the analogy works well enough, as far as a silly analogy goes. SFAM had a new DT member / major composer, for a completely new writing dynamic that was fresh and exciting, with so many new ideas. ADTOE was a band down a member, but was otherwise the same lineup they'd had for over a decade at that point. To me it sounded like they were going through the motions to continue. All imo of course! I think we're at the point of "agree to disagree".

Proggy is anti-fun? Ok...

I don't get that either. That's like saying a comedy movie can't be funny just because you don't find humor in it. 

That comparison would assume that prog is supposed to be fun. It's more like finding solving complex math problems fun. Some people will find fun in it, but it doesn't mean that solving complex math problems is generally considered a fun activity.

But you're just using the generic, and often incorrect, assumption that all prog is complex. 

[BlobVanDam]

But you're just using the generic, and often incorrect, assumption that all prog is complex. 

I know, I was basing it on Enigmachine's description of what makes BAI fun, some of which to me is the stereotype prog stuff.
And it's more fun for me this way.

[Prog Snob]

But you're just using the generic, and often incorrect, assumption that all prog is complex. 

I know, I was basing it on Enigmachine's description of what makes BAI fun, some of which to me is the stereotype prog stuff.
And it's more fun for me this way.

I wouldn't call BAI a "fun" song. It's certainly upbeat but that doesn't mean it's fun.

[smegolas]

I have never smiled as much as I have with this release.  There's a word that rarely exists to describe a DT album....and that is 'fun'. 

I know what you mean and agree with you.  Not that their other stuff isn't "fun", but this is just somewhat lighter and less serious (the music not necessarily the subject matter) and more varied.  Using the smile-O-meter, this is over the top.  One part that always makes me smile is the end of Three Days.  Also, I remember last album they wanted to make it sound like chocolate cake.  I didn't really get that impression.  But I do on this one.  It just sounds so huge and awesome and I love all of JPs varied tones.

I am starting to believe that this is going to be my favourite album of all time.

[dparrott]

I find most of SFAM very much fun, upbeat, etc.  Lots of TA is fun too. 

[Kotowboy]

I was thinking...Scenes was released in 1999 and The Astonishing in 2016.

They won't release another concept album for a long time.

Even if Dream Theater are around in another 15 years - which I doubt since Jordan would be 75 by then and everyone else would be 60+

The Astonishing is probably the last concept they'll do.

UNLESS they know for sure album "x" will be their final album and they decide to go out with a bang...

[MirrorMask]

Well, all the albums after Scenes were "occupied" by Portnoy's AA Suite, DT11 would have been the first chance to make a concept since probably they started to get "Hey, why not" ideas already around then, but then of course the split happened and the new musical direction with Mangini had to be estabilished...

Had not Portnoy left, I think DT11 or DT12 could have been concept albums, without waiting for DT13. Now for sure the next one won't be a concept and most likely the next after that, but from DT16 onwards I don't see no strict rule that forbids them to do another concept if they want to...

[Ad134]

Had not Portnoy left, I think DT11 or DT12 could have been concept albums, without waiting for DT13. Now for sure the next one won't be a concept and most likely the next after that, but from DT16 onwards I don't see no strict rule that forbids them to do another concept if they want to...

I think I remember MP talking in an interview or something about their original plans for DT11 before he left... it was going to be a concept album, and the live tour would be a static setlist. Set 1 would be the concept album in full, and set 2 would be the 12 steps suite in full.

[MirrorMask]

Yep, that's what I remember as well. Maybe it was nothing set in stone but the idea had definitively crossed their minds and they were thinking about another concept album for a while.

[DragonAttack]

If I didn't find DT 'fun' and 'enjoyable' I wouldn't listen to them as often.  So I was a bit terse last week (a bad day can do that).  I gave my snipped disc 1 a listen on the home stereo yesterday.  That certainly makes a difference.  I still wish the lyrics were a bit less in your face.  Also, for how much JLB shines on this, I wish I didn't feel he was breathing on the back of my neck during most of the gentler parts.

[jakepriest]

Also, for how much JLB shines on this, I wish I didn't feel he was breathing on the back of my neck during most of the gentler parts.

JLB has always had that breathy voice during ballads. Especially post SFAM.

[erwinrafael]

Also, for how much JLB shines on this, I wish I didn't feel he was breathing on the back of my neck during most of the gentler parts.

JLB has always had that breathy voice during ballads. Especially post SFAM.

I think he purposely did breathy voice for the Faythe parts. For the ballads that had Gabriel, he did not really do breathy vocals (The Answer, Chosen, Whispers in the Wind)

[Mladen]

As far as his breathiness goes, I think it sounds good as long as you don't hear the breathing screwing with the quality of sound. I was a bit bothered with his breathy vocals on the Wish you were hear cover, probably because I was used to hearing it being sung in a different way.

[fadetoblackdude7]

Had not Portnoy left, I think DT11 or DT12 could have been concept albums, without waiting for DT13. Now for sure the next one won't be a concept and most likely the next after that, but from DT16 onwards I don't see no strict rule that forbids them to do another concept if they want to...

I think I remember MP talking in an interview or something about their original plans for DT11 before he left... it was going to be a concept album, and the live tour would be a static setlist. Set 1 would be the concept album in full, and set 2 would be the 12 steps suite in full.

That woulda been awesome to see, with maybe ACOS as the encore? Count me in!

[pringkaarwanda]

Umm, sorry if this is wrong place to ask and maybe break the rule, feel free to warn me heheeh
Can I request anyone here, to write what all narrator said before Descent of NOMACS track when Dream Theater play live??
Because I am from asian and having a bad english, I really cant hear and understand what the narrator said in Dream Theater opening live concert....

Thanks all !!! 

[Kotowboy]

" A long long time ago.. .  . I can still remember how the music used to make me smile..."

[pringkaarwanda]

" A long long time ago.. .  . I can still remember how the music used to make me smile..."

..........
umm, okay... That's interesting 

[Kotowboy]

Haha. I'm joking. That's American Pie. 

[MirrorMask]

At least some parts were taken from this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/comments/3r9rik/great_northern_empire_supporter_email/

I remember from the show that "THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE." thing.

[Enigmachine]

I remember from the show that "THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE." thing.

That quote sounds like it was inspired by 1984.

[SystematicThought]

This is what Nafaryus says at the beginning of the show:

Do not be deceived by those who speak of new wonders born of “sound,” as this is the work of devilish malcontents whose search for wisdom will result only in ignorance. The NOMACS have secured you just as your daily work has defined you. FEAR and BEWARE the destabilization of our most hallowed traditions that have kept you safe and serene.

The Empire toils for you so that you may toil for the Empire.
THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE.
The Empire protects you because you protect the Empire.

[BlobVanDam]

Oops, Myung'd.

That additional section is what was cut from Descent of the NOMACS to make Act I fit on a single disc.

[SystematicThought]

I wish they would have kept it and cut something else, but that would have been hard to do. I love the extra loud noise at the end too, having that go three times instead of two.

[MirrorMask]

I agree with cutting that, I have a hard time thinking of better choices than a spoken intro and what was already a very long solo.

"I don't like this or that song so I would have cut that" is not an option, from Dream Theater's point of view all the songs were crucial to the story so suggesting to just remove a least favorite song wouldn't work. Furthermore, they had already announced the tracklist when they realized they were overtime.

[pringkaarwanda]

Haha. I'm joking. That's American Pie. 

What?? I dont know that?? Hahahaha 

This is what Nafaryus says at the beginning of the show:

Do not be deceived by those who speak of new wonders born of “sound,” as this is the work of devilish malcontents whose search for wisdom will result only in ignorance. The NOMACS have secured you just as your daily work has defined you. FEAR and BEWARE the destabilization of our most hallowed traditions that have kept you safe and serene.

The Empire toils for you so that you may toil for the Empire.
THE EMPIRE IS OBEDIENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OBEDIENT TO THE EMPIRE.
The Empire protects you because you protect the Empire.

Thank you man !!! 

[pringkaarwanda]

I agree with the other who like uncut or full version of Descent of NOMACS, we can call it Descent of NOMACS Extended Version hahaha 

[Calvin6s]

Ravenskill doesn't even have to compete in the Hunger Games.  What a bunch of whiny serfs.

[BlobVanDam]

The uncut intro is a little cheesier, and the song lyrics basically make up for the lost intro dialogue, so I see why they cut it. It set the scene before the first NOMAC intro, but just like editing a movie down to length, if it's not absolutely necessary to tell the story, you can cut it.
From what we know, I think they did a good job of deciding what to cut. Personally I probably would have cut all of the NOMACS tracks and left the end of ANB though.

[Kotowboy]

What's Lord Nafaryus' first name ?

Neil.

Neil before Nafaryus

[noxon]

The intro cut was made late in the process. And in fact - there's a third version of Descent as well - which was released to the press. It has no narration, but is still a minute longer.

With regards to the ANB - that was not cut during the mixing though - it was cut already during the writing process so the longer solo version only exists as very rough demo home snippets that JP and JR made during the writing.

[BlobVanDam]

Are you sure there's a third version? I have the longer version (2:04), with the narration.

[lucasembarbosa]

Are you sure there's a third version? I have the longer version (2:04), with the narration.

Besides the uncut version of Descent of the NOMACS, is there any difference between the promo release and the actual release of the songs? Is there any possibility of sharing the promo release with the general public?