*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[erwinrafael]

That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

I would disagree that the story is necessarily the main focus. The story is important, sure, but how it interacts with the music is even more important. What matters to me, personally, is the entire experience. So, as an example, I have read a lot of criticisms over how happy the end of the album is. To me though, the plausibility of the situation isn't the point. What makes it a great ending isn't the storytelling of it all, but rather that when LaBrie sings, "Our lives will be astonishing again!", the music makes me believe him.

Yep. Rent, for example, is not really an amazing story but it is an amazing musical. So is Cats. And even Jesus Christ, Superstar. Although of course there are great musicals that are amazing both in story and music, Les Miserables and Miss Saigon, for example, but then that is why they are considered all-time greats.

[Logain Ablar]

I think the story serves as a vehicle for the music, and as such is fine, for me at least. I mean, I could probably pick holes in it if I really wanted to, but I think it does the job it's meant to do. It's got family drama, betrayal, social inequality, love stuff, flying robots - enough elements to give the songs meaning and push the whole thing along.

I don't think there's enough there to create a novel out of, to be honest, but I think it's fine as a backdrop to the album. I'll not be turning to DT for my next fantasy novel or anything, but that's fine..

The music is the most important thing to me - the story plays a supporting role (yes, the Oscars were on TV this morning..  ). It's enough for me to have a general understanding the major plot points as I'm listening through. Still loving it.. 

[MirrorMask]

It's got family drama, betrayal, social inequality, love stuff, flying robots

This seems a pitch for an Hollywood blockbuster movie 

[Logain Ablar]

It's got family drama, betrayal, social inequality, love stuff, flying robots

This seems a pitch for an Hollywood blockbuster movie 

Maybe it will get picked up for Sharknado 9. If it does, I want a credit!! 

[Ben_Jamin]

I wonder if JP has a lot more story to be told. Like, the album is the basics of the story, it does its job of portraying the plot and significant ideas. Yet, he has more of the story he wants to release in another form that an album just can't portray.

Take the game being released, that'll likely explore more of the map areas. Give you more of a glimpse into the GNE.

[Prog Snob]

I wonder if JP has a lot more story to be told. Like, the album is the basics of the story, it does its job of portraying the plot and significant ideas. Yet, he has more of the story he wants to release in another form that an album just can't portray.

Take the game being released, that'll likely explore more of the map areas. Give you more of a glimpse into the GNE.

He did mention having more of the story that he would perhaps release in a novelization. This was the quote from the AMA that he did.

"They are an artificial intelligence of sorts who automate a soulless cacophony. On the album the story is focused more on the human characters and their struggles, however the NOMAC story will be explored further in future novelization."

[Kotowboy]

It's the first in a series of 9 double albums to come.

it's the new Star Wars.

It'll be a film trilogy , prequel trilogy and sequel trilogy

And Netflix series.

[Thematt202]

It's the first in a series of 9 double albums to come.

it's the new Star Wars.

It'll be a film trilogy , prequel trilogy and sequel trilogy

And Netflix series.

I'm sold!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Prequel:

Bug's Adventures.

[TAC]

Prequel:

Bug's Adventures.

 

Nice!

[Bacong]

the title track makes me smile like an idiot, idc

[RaasMah]

I wonder if JP has a lot more story to be told. Like, the album is the basics of the story, it does its job of portraying the plot and significant ideas. Yet, he has more of the story he wants to release in another form that an album just can't portray.

Take the game being released, that'll likely explore more of the map areas. Give you more of a glimpse into the GNE.

He did mention having more of the story that he would perhaps release in a novelization. This was the quote from the AMA that he did.

"They are an artificial intelligence of sorts who automate a soulless cacophony. On the album the story is focused more on the human characters and their struggles, however the NOMAC story will be explored further in future novelization."

The AMA was before the explained tracks page on the site right? Im pretty sure thats what JP meant in future novelization.

[bosk1]

Short song descriptions on a website is not a "novelization," so I doubt that is what he meant. 

[rumborak]

Prequel:

A Bug's Life.

FTFY

[Enigmachine]

the title track makes me smile like an idiot, idc

Me too, and the chills from "Music REIGNS FOREVERMORE!", whoa! All the reprises are beautiful and perfectly placed (which they'd better be, considering that it's the entire song). One of the best closers I can think of, really. Although, maybe it won't make as much sense being played outside of the album considering it does have the feeling of a finale to epic. If you listen to it on its own, I'd imagine thinking "wait where is the other 2:05 hours?".

[Kotowboy]

Prequel:

Bug's Adventures.

A Bug's Life.

[rumborak]

Look two posts up, Kotow.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm at a billiards and bar. They have an online Jukebox. Someone played ACOS. then I played The Path That divides. Cool they have a lot of the Astonishing songs on there.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Prequel:

A Bug's Life.

FTFY

[fischermasamune]

I'm at a billiards and bar. They have an online Jukebox. Someone played ACOS. then I played The Path That divides. Cool they have a lot of the Astonishing songs on there.

I would play only 5 DT songs: ACOS, 6DOIT, 8VM, ITPOE and IT.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm at a billiards and bar. They have an online Jukebox. Someone played ACOS. then I played The Path That divides. Cool they have a lot of the Astonishing songs on there.

I would play only 5 DT songs: ACOS, 6DOIT, 8VM, ITPOE and IT.

Unfortunately both SDOIT and ITPOE are in multiple tracks so wouldn't count as one, unless you choose the Score version of SDOIT, which I recall people have done before for these types of jukeboxes.

[SystematicThought]

This guy is working on covering the entire album and has been posting both album and drums only covers of the songs. He's amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4K4xSbgYg

[erwinrafael]

This guy is working on covering the entire album and has been posting both album and drums only covers of the songs. He's amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a4K4xSbgYg

Yep, Mathias is good. Loved his Dystopian Overture cover.

[SystematicThought]

I've been following his channel for quite awhile now and he's always amazing. His drums sound amazing and he captures the performance really well.

Also, at the end of Begin Again during that awesome outro, is there any guitar part there?

[Cyclopssss]

The Astonishing part II: Revenge of the NoMacs! (or Jordan Rudess's day off in the studio) . 

[hefdaddy42]

"...No offense, but... wow. Comparisons to an MMORPG (because... reasons? I honestly can't understand this), comparing members to pre-teens (I'd like to see pre-teens write an album like TA), saying the album is beneath them (no it isn't, they made the album and are proud of it), saying it isn't relatable (there are some very real and relatable themes in this album like trust, issues of family, loyalty etc.), completely ignoring key plot points (Xander is what causes Ahrys's to betray his brother, to protect Xander, his son, pretty important) , saying they 'jumped the shark' (fair enough if you don't like it, but this is still very much Dream Theater and has enough critical and commercial success to justify the risk). As I said, fine if you don't like it, but those claims are pretty unfounded. People have complained about the execution of the lyrical style, length of the album, the pacing and some of the more bizzare plot points. These have been well supported and understandable criticisms, even if I don't neccesarily agree with them. However, stuff like "we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG" is kind of baffling and just plain weird."



First, you misunderstood my "pre-teen" comment. I never compared the members of the band to actual pre-teens. Hell, they are my age and I respect each of them for all that they have contributed. My argument was that it seems that their target audience for this project were pre-teens. I likened the content of TA to something I could pluck off the shelf in the young adult section of any book store. And to be honest, most of that tripe is written by much older authors. You have to admit that even the cartoonish portraits of the main characters in TA on the website are a bit much: They all look like something from an English fantasy graphic novel… quite cheesy and again, in my opinion, a bit adolescent.  Which segue's into my MMORPG comment. ALL the characters, their profiles, their motis operandi… all read like character studies from any one of the thousands of MMORPG platforms out there. Even the goofy map and costumes have an ethereal Camelot-y /Wizard and Warlock feel. Sorry if I confused the issue, but in my opinion--the whole concept is campy. At best. Much like the MMORPG realms that are created by today's version of D&D geekdom.

It is a sing-through musical, with acts and scene headings and everything. By definition, a play.  The entire tale is communicated through lyrical narrative and dialogue. That's fine for those that like that. We are all entitled to our opinions. That's the beauty of forums. And I do wish the music was better… as I said there are moments of musical greatness and I would like to enjoy the music by itself. The problem is that, for me at least, the moments with good music--those stand alone pieces--are few and far between while the rest is bogged down with extraneous and sluggish characters and sung though dialogue.

Hey, we all have our opinion and I just wanted to put another perspective out there. There's so much love out there for this album and I just don't feel it myself. Not even close.

I love DT. There's not much in their extensive catalogue that I haven't been able to find something about which to enjoy. This is the first time I've been discouraged and disappointed in something they've developed. I suppose because of the grand scale and the build up to the albums roll out... the let down for me was even greater.

Again, just one old fan's opinion. I'll simply pass on this album and look forward to the next; while hoping this doesn't spawn a sequel (ala MindCrime 2) Some things shouldn't be done. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Is it fair to say that your opinion of the album is colored by your dislike of plays/theater and the genres of sci-fi/fantasy?  Not trying to put words in your mouth, just looking for clarification.

And hey, opinions are opinions, and you are certainly entitled to yours.  No worries.

[noxon]

During the Q&A on sunday, we got clarification that the stuff thats been written on the emails, website and tourbook is all a guy (Ryan something). He's the one that came up with a lot of the world outside of whats within the concept and lyrics itself...

[rumborak]

Random comment, I find the switch to the narrator at the end of Three Days, followed by the 1920's music, really unfortunate given how awesome the section right before it is. That whole "They're left to weigh the gravity of his threatening remarks" and "Will Gabriel get out of this alive? This remains the question on their minds"  really yanks me out of it.

[bosk1]

Really?  Why is that? 

[rumborak]

DT have done that once before, in The Great Debate, where they switched to "addressing the reader" directly. ("Pay attention to the questions we have raised")
There's probably a fancy literature term for it, but it's essentially the fact that in my mind, I'm going from watching characters interact, to some guy telling me about what's happening.

[bosk1]

Oh, okay.  Personally, I don't find that change in POV to be jarring.  But I see what you mean.

[dparrott]

Unfortunately both SDOIT and ITPOE are in multiple tracks so wouldn't count as one, unless you choose the Score version of SDOIT, which I recall people have done before for these types of jukeboxes.

That must clear the room pretty fast! haha

[BlobVanDam]

Unfortunately both SDOIT and ITPOE are in multiple tracks so wouldn't count as one, unless you choose the Score version of SDOIT, which I recall people have done before for these types of jukeboxes.

That must clear the room pretty fast! haha

It would be a great test to see who has good music taste though.

If you put on DT and she stays, we are a match.

[ariich]

DT have done that once before, in The Great Debate, where they switched to "addressing the reader" directly. ("Pay attention to the questions we have raised")
There's probably a fancy literature term for it, but it's essentially the fact that in my mind, I'm going from watching characters interact, to some guy telling me about what's happening.

To some extent, I find that with the use of a narrator throughout. That particular moment doesn't actually bother me at all, I find it really enjoyable, but there are some others where I definitely felt like there was no need for it to be a narrator and the key points could easily have been done as dialogue between characters.

[rumborak]

I am really not all familiar with musicals and operas, but is that something that is done outside of plays? In plays those "off speaker" statements are more meant for the director to direct the acting in a certain way ("X and Y stay behind, pensive"), but it strikes me as uncommon outside of that.