*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Kotowboy]

I'd buy that for a dollar.

( 72p )

[SebastianPratesi]

Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time!

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

[GasparXR]

Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time!

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

Mine says 80:01 as well. Adding 2 seconds to the total time might be the case on many systems.

[ResultsMayVary]

Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time!

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

Mine says 80:01 as well. Adding 2 seconds to the total time might be the case on many systems.

Importing songs into certain programs can lead to an extra second being add here or there.

[Kotowboy]

My CD player says 80:01 also.

[TAC]

My CD player says 80:01 also.

Um...it's a Music Player!

[fadetoblackdude7]

Mine says 79:59 for Act 1 and 50:39 for Act 2

[erwinrafael]

My foobar says that my HDTracks version of TA Disc 1 is 1 hour 19 minutes and 58.966 seconds

[SebastianPratesi]

Mine says 79:59 for Act 1 and 50:39 for Act 2

What I suspected! Thanks.

Mine says 80:01 as well. Adding 2 seconds to the total time might be the case on many systems.

Yeah, I thought about it. That is happening with mine, apparently. I don't understand why, though.

[ResultsMayVary]

My foobar says that my HDTracks version of TA Disc 1 is 1 hour 19 minutes and 58.966 seconds

That's.....oddly specific.

[Train of Naught]

Listening to the album for the 3rd or 4th time in full now (I believe it's the 4th), songs really start growing on me more now, even the ones I disliked at first. But yeah.. the magnitude of this album will keep me from playing it regularly. Though I can already safely say The Astonishing is going to end up on my "best of 2016" list, probably top 10 and maybe even top 5.

[RoeDent]

Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

My stereo displays 80:01, which doesn't make much sense to me. I'm now thinking that all of this time the stereo has added 2 extra seconds to the original lengths of my CDs. I was wrong all this time!

What does your player display for Act 2? I get 50:41.

My big CD player actually displays 80:01, while my portable player says 79:59. Idk why, but that's how it is. It's the same with Porcupine Tree's Stupid Dream. Big player says 60:01, small one 59:59.

As for Act 2, 50:41 is correct.

[MirrorMask]

I love how these little differences screw up a band's intention to have a song lasting a round number, for example the 12:00 minutes of Finally Free or the 24:00 of Octavarium 

[1neeto]

So I've given the album about 5 listens and I just finally did the whole thing with the lyric book in one sitting (during a long flight lol). I really want to like this album, I really do since it's such an ambitious project. It has very brilliant and goosebumps moments, but after going through the whole thing with the lyric book, I feel like I just watched a ok movie that while it had its moments, I don't see myself watching again. Maybe it needs more listens, but for now, I'm far from "Astonished".

[Cyclopssss]

I think you need about ten more listens.

[SebastianPratesi]

There's this new interview with Jordan, posted yesterday on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Q-d4tnxj8
Not that much new info, but some cool bits:

-He plays this nice sound on his iPad: https://youtu.be/v5Q-d4tnxj8?t=16m12s. I wish it would have been included on the album.
-Towards the end of the interview, he mentions that the current tour will probably last into 2017, with second visits to Europe and the US.

[thosava]

I'm soon on my way to see the show in Oslo tonight I just can't wait anymore. I have stayed away from all youtube videos, i didn't want anything spoiled 

[Freshmuse]

Been a fan since Images… watched the band evolve, stretch their minds and challenge their musical prowess. They have never shied away from trying new things, venturing into uncharted territory. Each new album unveiled some new talent/ability/idea. I'm also an un-apologetic fan of SciFi and speculative fiction--hell, DT actually influenced a few of my novels and short stories. The Great Debate inspired me to pen my stem cell tech thriller: Rubicon Harvest [url]https://cwkesting.com/Home_Page.html/url]!!! I grew up with the classic "rock opera" masterpieces: Rush's 2112, Hemisphere's, etc... Pink Floyd's The Wall. Queensryche's Operation:Mindcrime. Even DT's own Metropolis and SDOIT. These are enduring effective classics. They shake up your psyche and affect you viscerally. They are so good that any individual chapter in any particular story can stand alone as a seminal piece. But then there are the many other failing attempts at elaborate "concept musical theatrics". Saga's Generation 13 comes to mind.

So I was excited and intrigued about TA. Especially from my favorite artists.

That being said, I really wanted--perhaps expected--to enjoy this new project. And that's what Astonishing feels like, a project. A LONG project that sat on JP's creative shelf for far too long and while perhaps it needed air, should've been edited a bit more before being rolled out . So here's my two cents:

In a phrase, DT "jumped the shark" with this one. It's a sluggish slog through an adolescent fantasy world that doesn't deliver on it's promise. Clearly JP wanted to make this for awhile and the rest of the guys acquiesced. That's what lifelong friends and professionals do. So they let JP entertain this teenage muse of his that has been gnawing away at the creative folds of his brain ever since he listened to 2112 for the first time--(For clearly, that is what TA aspires toward). The problem is that the story itself never gets there, in my opinion. The difference here is that Neil Peart understood Ayn Rand and her brilliant story, Anthem, so well, that he was able to condense the philosophy into lyrical perfection. In the case of TA, we don't actually see anything new (or exciting or thought provoking) happening here other than it's happening in some make-believe World of Warcraft realm. The plot is loose, convoluted and eventually (after two hours) contracts a serious case of deus ex machina . It reads like Shakespeare trying his hand at a Spanish soap opera, unfortunately.  I won't take up too much space here dissecting the characters, other than to start with their ridiculous names (Nafaryus, really?) and end with their weak motivations. There's also a HUGE void in the concept: From start to finish I kept asking WHY? Why does this dystopian society reject music? And how does that give Nafaryus control over the people? What exactly is Gabriel's musical "power" (gift, talent, whatever)--we're led to believe it's his "song". Is this metaphorical or literal; and how do either give him actual power? How in the hell do all the people suddenly and inexplicably unify their voices--and again why? So what? What new world are they pining for and why is the current world so bad. We never see the oppression of Nafaryus's reign. It's simply assumed that he is bad ('cuz he's.. you know Nafaryus). And the NOMACS? What are they, why are they and who cares? Yet, they're the de facto "face of the album".

I think JP was hoping we'd all get the same shivers we got when Jon discovered the relic guitar in 2112 and took it to the Priests in the Temple of Sirynx. But Rush accomplished this magic in a fraction of the time and space that JP did. Don't get me wrong--I love JP and in my opinion he is one of--if not THE--best guitarists around. But as a lyricists (or even conceptualist) he is lacking. I think, overall, DT has lost a step (or ten) in their "lyrical composition" since parting ways with MP. Granted, we were all pretty tired of the alcoholic diatribes and aggressive pomposity that MP saturated us with (BTW, I am an alcoholic and appreciate his efforts the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd times. It got preachy-old after that). But, overall TA is a weak attempt at telling a worn-out tale while dressed as a MMORPG.

As for the musicality, well…. it's also less than impressive. And that probably bums me out the most. I could always count on the guys blowing me away with their individual craftsmanship--even if the lyrics didn't ring my bell. But with TA… I see none of the sweeping melodies that transition to amazing solo sections. I see none of the showcase bridges anywhere within this epic movie score. No memorable guitar riffs, no heart thumping bass wakeup calls, no staccato drum segue's. Just a lot of James crooning and Jordan's nimble fingers. Oh, there are little tastes: brief wiffs of something developing on the periphery of all the costume pomp and melodrama. But aside from the NOMACS creepy cool mechanizations… there's nothing that gives me that classic DT shot-in-the arm. I always try to get my 15 year old son to appreciate DT and he has grown to enjoy the classics. We have moments when we both are like: "Now THAT"S why JP is one of the best guitarist! Just listen to Myung's bas riff here--the speed and dexterity!! Have you ever heard drumming that precise?!" There was none of that for me anywhere in TA. And that, more than the cheesy plot material, disappoints the greatest.

I hope they get this silliness out of their system, have a great tour, and get back to composing music with substance and style. They already nailed the rock opera genre with Metropolis; scored symphonically with SDOIT and An Evening with…  In my humble opinion, The Astonishing didn't need to be made other than to get it out of JP's head and clear the way for better stuff.

Just one old fan's opinion.

Thanks and sorry for the long post. I don't post much (if ever) but this album bugged me enough...

[1neeto]

Been a fan since Images... watched the band evolve, stretch their minds and challenge their musical prowess. They have never shied away from trying new things, venturing into uncharted territory. Each new album unveiled some new talent/ability/idea. I'm also an un-apologetic fan of SciFi and speculative fiction--hell, DT actually influenced a few of my novels and short stories. The Great Debate inspired me to pen my stem cell tech thriller: Rubicon Harvest [url]https://cwkesting.com/Home_Page.html/url]!!! I grew up with the classic "rock opera" masterpieces: Rush's 2112, Hemisphere's, etc... Pink Floyd's The Wall. Queensryche's Operation:Mindcrime. Even DT's own Metropolis and SDOIT. These are enduring effective classics. They shake up your psyche and affect you viscerally. They are so good that any individual chapter in any particular story can stand alone as a seminal piece. But then there are the many other failing attempts at elaborate "concept musical theatrics". Saga's Generation 13 comes to mind.

So I was excited and intrigued about TA. Especially from my favorite artists.

That being said, I really wanted--perhaps expected--to enjoy this new project. And that's what Astonishing feels like, a project. A LONG project that sat on JP's creative shelf for far too long and while perhaps it needed air, should've been edited a bit more before being rolled out . So here's my two cents:

In a phrase, DT "jumped the shark" with this one. It's a sluggish slog through an adolescent fantasy world that doesn't deliver on it's promise. Clearly JP wanted to make this for awhile and the rest of the guys acquiesced. That's what lifelong friends and professionals do. So they let JP entertain this teenage muse of his that has been gnawing away at the creative folds of his brain ever since he listened to 2112 for the first time--(For clearly, that is what TA aspires toward). The problem is that the story itself never gets there, in my opinion. The difference here is that Neil Peart understood Ayn Rand and her brilliant story, Anthem, so well, that he was able to condense the philosophy into lyrical perfection. In the case of TA, we don't actually see anything new (or exciting or thought provoking) happening here other than it's happening in some make-believe World of Warcraft realm. The plot is loose, convoluted and eventually (after two hours) contracts a serious case of deus ex machina . It reads like Shakespeare trying his hand at a Spanish soap opera, unfortunately.  I won't take up too much space here dissecting the characters, other than to start with their ridiculous names (Nafaryus, really?) and end with their weak motivations. There's also a HUGE void in the concept: From start to finish I kept asking WHY? Why does this dystopian society reject music? And how does that give Nafaryus control over the people? What exactly is Gabriel's musical "power" (gift, talent, whatever)--we're led to believe it's his "song". Is this metaphorical or literal; and how do either give him actual power? How in the hell do all the people suddenly and inexplicably unify their voices--and again why? So what? What new world are they pining for and why is the current world so bad. We never see the oppression of Nafaryus's reign. It's simply assumed that he is bad ('cuz he's.. you know Nafaryus). And the NOMACS? What are they, why are they and who cares? Yet, they're the de facto "face of the album".

I think JP was hoping we'd all get the same shivers we got when Jon discovered the relic guitar in 2112 and took it to the Priests in the Temple of Sirynx. But Rush accomplished this magic in a fraction of the time and space that JP did. Don't get me wrong--I love JP and in my opinion he is one of--if not THE--best guitarists around. But as a lyricists (or even conceptualist) he is lacking. I think, overall, DT has lost a step (or ten) in their "lyrical composition" since parting ways with MP. Granted, we were all pretty tired of the alcoholic diatribes and aggressive pomposity that MP saturated us with (BTW, I am an alcoholic and appreciate his efforts the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd times. It got preachy-old after that). But, overall TA is a weak attempt at telling a worn-out tale while dressed as a MMORPG.

As for the musicality, well.... it's also less than impressive. And that probably bums me out the most. I could always count on the guys blowing me away with their individual craftsmanship--even if the lyrics didn't ring my bell. But with TA... I see none of the sweeping melodies that transition to amazing solo sections. I see none of the showcase bridges anywhere within this epic movie score. No memorable guitar riffs, no heart thumping bass wakeup calls, no staccato drum segue's. Just a lot of James crooning and Jordan's nimble fingers. Oh, there are little tastes: brief wiffs of something developing on the periphery of all the costume pomp and melodrama. But aside from the NOMACS creepy cool mechanizations... there's nothing that gives me that classic DT shot-in-the arm. I always try to get my 15 year old son to appreciate DT and he has grown to enjoy the classics. We have moments when we both are like: "Now THAT"S why JP is one of the best guitarist! Just listen to Myung's bas riff here--the speed and dexterity!! Have you ever heard drumming that precise?!" There was none of that for me anywhere in TA. And that, more than the cheesy plot material, disappoints the greatest.

I hope they get this silliness out of their system, have a great tour, and get back to composing music with substance and style. They already nailed the rock opera genre with Metropolis; scored symphonically with SDOIT and An Evening with...  In my humble opinion, The Astonishing didn't need to be made other than to get it out of JP's head and clear the way for better stuff.

Just one old fan's opinion.

Thanks and sorry for the long post. I don't post much (if ever) but this album bugged me enough...

Wow I can honestly say that these are my exact same feelings about this album. I'll always love DT no matter what, but this album, even though it has some great moments, it's just lackluster as a concept. Even when I sat through it with the lyrics, I was at one point wishing it was over already. That's not a great feeling. I think I'll give this a few more listens, but I don't think I'll be listening much more of this after a month or so from now.

[fischermasamune]

The album doesn't try to be 2112 Pt. 2. It is more like a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story in a dystopian setting. I think some people may be setting themselves up to disappointment with their expectations.

[Lucien]

2:19 of The Walking Shadow is so fucking cool

[Freshmuse]

The album doesn't try to be 2112 Pt. 2. It is more like a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story in a dystopian setting. I think some people may be setting themselves up to disappointment with their expectations.

Perhaps.  But then doesn't that beg this question: With over 20 years of progressive music created by a group who--most in this forum community would agree-- is the best assemblage of musicians in their craft; whom never felt the need to bend to trend or latch on to whatever meme-d'jour was floating through the ether; why would they chose now to slip from their maverick progressive philosophy and simply mash up a bunch of tired genres in an attempt to re-heat some left-over themes?

So yes... As fans, we are allowed expect more and we are entitled to be disappointed when we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG. It's like Les Miserables meets Camelot with wacky robot orbs flitting about just remind us that the setting is meant to be science-fiction-y. This double disk indulgence is nothing more than a musical pre-teen comic book love story.

I think (hope) that they're better than this album. It is my opinion that this entire effort is beneath them and ultimately very disappointing. This concept has been worn gossamer thin (by Hollywood and print alike!!), the characters lame and the plot derivative--if not predictable. It's not like Dream Theater never tried their hand at a full-storied concept before. While not the best "theatrical story album"Scenes from a Memory is incredible compared to Astonishing. If they wanted to go "Rock Opera", then go for it; but do it with originality and style: CREATE an entirely new World (if that's what you want) but make it special. Unique. Filled with wonderful leads that have dynamic motivations and proper emotional investment. People (or beings) that we actually care about...can relate to. Was anyone really surprised that Brother killed brother? Did anyone really care?  Anyone floored by the father versus independent daughter chemistry? And Xander? Why is he even here? Again, who cares?  YAWN....

Give us a backstory--some historical perspective as to why the world is the way it is. How it became that way and why folks in it want something different. Why was there a resistance and what was it, exactly, the folks of Ravenskill were resisting in the first place?

Like I said, They really jumped the shark!!!

I'm hopeful they get this out of their system and move forward--PROGRESSIVE--in their next endeavor. These talented guys are capable of far better.

[ariich]

sing-through musical set in a MMORPG ... It's like Les Miserables meets Camelot with wacky robot orbs flitting about ... musical pre-teen comic book love story.

I'd be interested in what other albums fit these descriptions.

[SwedishGoose]

Sorry that you don't like it but to me (a fan since I&W as well) the Astonishing is a breath of fresh air. Don't get me wrong I have liked everyting they have done but but espescially on the latter MP albums it felt like they were trying too hard to please the fans or get new ones.

Now with TA it feels like they do whatever they want to do. And the music on this album is soo good, easily in the top 3 albums. First time I listened to it I did not like it as much but for each new listen it has grown.

Can't wait to see it live on tuesday and wednesday...

Yes the concept and lyrics could be better but if I want a good story I go to a movie or a book. If I want good music however I go to TA... best album in a long while.

[Enigmachine]

The Walking Shadow is so fucking cool

FTFM (but that moment is pretty damn cool in particular, amazingly tense buildup, then "as,    his,    wea - pon,    finds,   his,   vic - tim,   mort - i - fied,   to,  find  the  shadow is FAYTHE!")

The album doesn't try to be 2112 Pt. 2. It is more like a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story in a dystopian setting. I think some people may be setting themselves up to disappointment with their expectations.

Perhaps.  But then doesn't that beg this question: With over 20 years of progressive music created by a group who--most in this forum community would agree-- is the best assemblage of musicians in their craft; whom never felt the need to bend to trend or latch on to whatever meme-d'jour was floating through the ether; why would they chose now to slip from their maverick progressive philosophy and simply mash up a bunch of tired genres in an attempt to re-heat some left-over themes?

So yes... As fans, we are allowed expect more and we are entitled to be disappointed when we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG. It's like Les Miserables meets Camelot with wacky robot orbs flitting about just remind us that the setting is meant to be science-fiction-y. This double disk indulgence is nothing more than a musical pre-teen comic book love story.

I think (hope) that they're better than this album. It is my opinion that this entire effort is beneath them and ultimately very disappointing. This concept has been worn gossamer thin (by Hollywood and print alike!!), the characters lame and the plot derivative--if not predictable. It's not like Dream Theater never tried their hand at a full-storied concept before. While not the best "theatrical story album"Scenes from a Memory is incredible compared to Astonishing. If they wanted to go "Rock Opera", then go for it; but do it with originality and style: CREATE an entirely new World (if that's what you want) but make it special. Unique. Filled with wonderful leads that have dynamic motivations and proper emotional investment. People (or beings) that we actually care about...can relate to. Was anyone really surprised that Brother killed brother? Did anyone really care?  Anyone floored by the father versus independent daughter chemistry? And Xander? Why is he even here? Again, who cares?  YAWN....

Give us a backstory--some historical perspective as to why the world is the way it is. How it became that way and why folks in it want something different. Why was there a resistance and what was it, exactly, the folks of Ravenskill were resisting in the first place?

Like I said, They really jumped the shark!!!

I'm hopeful they get this out of their system and move forward--PROGRESSIVE--in their next endeavor. These talented guys are capable of far better.

No offense, but... wow. Comparisons to an MMORPG (because... reasons? I honestly can't understand this), comparing members to pre-teens (I'd like to see pre-teens write an album like TA), saying the album is beneath them (no it isn't, they made the album and are proud of it), saying it isn't relatable (there are some very real and relatable themes in this album like trust, issues of family, loyalty etc.), completely ignoring key plot points (Xander is what causes Ahrys's to betray his brother, to protect Xander, his son, pretty important) , saying they 'jumped the shark' (fair enough if you don't like it, but this is still very much Dream Theater and has enough critical and commercial success to justify the risk). As I said, fine if you don't like it, but those claims are pretty unfounded. People have complained about the execution of the lyrical style, length of the album, the pacing and some of the more bizzare plot points. These have been well supported and understandable criticisms, even if I don't neccesarily agree with them. However, stuff like "we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG" is kind of baffling and just plain weird.

On a more subjective note, I don't think Dream Theater have ever been a particularly groundbreaking band. They lead the second wave of Progressive Metal bands (where the first was Queensryche, Fates Warning, Savatage and Crimson Glory) and raised the bar in terms of technicality and complexity, cementing the name of the genre in the process. Important certainly, but didn't invent the genre.

Yes the concept and lyrics could be better but if I want a good story I go to a movie or a book. If I want good music however I go to TA... best album in a long while.

This is true. The story isn't brilliant (like with SfaM) but the execution of it musically is exceptional IMO.

[rumborak]

That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

[Dream Team]

There are a lot of errors in your posts freshmuse. You are trying very hard to impress us with your vocabulary, so kudos for that.

Brother DOES NOT kill brother. Never hinted at.

It's explained very clearly in ABL why Nafaryus is a bad dude. Aryhs is sick of seeing his people "starve and suffer".

Put the dictionary down and think about the fact that JP is a rock guitarist and not a Hollywood-caliber screenwriter.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

I would disagree that the story is necessarily the main focus. The story is important, sure, but how it interacts with the music is even more important. What matters to me, personally, is the entire experience. So, as an example, I have read a lot of criticisms over how happy the end of the album is. To me though, the plausibility of the situation isn't the point. What makes it a great ending isn't the storytelling of it all, but rather that when LaBrie sings, "Our lives will be astonishing again!", the music makes me believe him.

[pcs90]

You can enjoy the music on the album without caring about the story.
In my opinion understanding the story helps a lot, and though there are certainly loopholes and ideas that could have been expanded on, there is plenty of information between the website descriptions and the lyrics themselves to follow.
Sometimes I'll just listen to a few songs...of course it won't be as powerful as the full experience, but they're still enjoyable on their own.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm excited for what they have planned, or what jp wants to do to further explore the astonishing realm.

[Freshmuse]

"...No offense, but... wow. Comparisons to an MMORPG (because... reasons? I honestly can't understand this), comparing members to pre-teens (I'd like to see pre-teens write an album like TA), saying the album is beneath them (no it isn't, they made the album and are proud of it), saying it isn't relatable (there are some very real and relatable themes in this album like trust, issues of family, loyalty etc.), completely ignoring key plot points (Xander is what causes Ahrys's to betray his brother, to protect Xander, his son, pretty important) , saying they 'jumped the shark' (fair enough if you don't like it, but this is still very much Dream Theater and has enough critical and commercial success to justify the risk). As I said, fine if you don't like it, but those claims are pretty unfounded. People have complained about the execution of the lyrical style, length of the album, the pacing and some of the more bizzare plot points. These have been well supported and understandable criticisms, even if I don't neccesarily agree with them. However, stuff like "we have purchased this garden variety version of a sing-through musical set in a MMORPG" is kind of baffling and just plain weird."



First, you misunderstood my "pre-teen" comment. I never compared the members of the band to actual pre-teens. Hell, they are my age and I respect each of them for all that they have contributed. My argument was that it seems that their target audience for this project were pre-teens. I likened the content of TA to something I could pluck off the shelf in the young adult section of any book store. And to be honest, most of that tripe is written by much older authors. You have to admit that even the cartoonish portraits of the main characters in TA on the website are a bit much: They all look like something from an English fantasy graphic novel... quite cheesy and again, in my opinion, a bit adolescent.  Which segue's into my MMORPG comment. ALL the characters, their profiles, their motis operandi... all read like character studies from any one of the thousands of MMORPG platforms out there. Even the goofy map and costumes have an ethereal Camelot-y /Wizard and Warlock feel. Sorry if I confused the issue, but in my opinion--the whole concept is campy. At best. Much like the MMORPG realms that are created by today's version of D&D geekdom.

It is a sing-through musical, with acts and scene headings and everything. By definition, a play.  The entire tale is communicated through lyrical narrative and dialogue. That's fine for those that like that. We are all entitled to our opinions. That's the beauty of forums. And I do wish the music was better... as I said there are moments of musical greatness and I would like to enjoy the music by itself. The problem is that, for me at least, the moments with good music--those stand alone pieces--are few and far between while the rest is bogged down with extraneous and sluggish characters and sung though dialogue.

Hey, we all have our opinion and I just wanted to put another perspective out there. There's so much love out there for this album and I just don't feel it myself. Not even close.

I love DT. There's not much in their extensive catalogue that I haven't been able to find something about which to enjoy. This is the first time I've been discouraged and disappointed in something they've developed. I suppose because of the grand scale and the build up to the albums roll out... the let down for me was even greater.

Again, just one old fan's opinion. I'll simply pass on this album and look forward to the next; while hoping this doesn't spawn a sequel (ala MindCrime 2) Some things shouldn't be done. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[Lucien]

Honestly if I were forced to bring only 1 DT album with me to listen to for the rest of my life, it'd be The Astonishing. I don't think I've listened to a DT song from another album since it came out.

[SwedishGoose]

That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

The most important aspect of a Rock Opera or a Musica or a proper Opera is to me at least the music.
I can't really think of one Rock Opera,  musical or Opera where I have thought "wow, what a story" but I can think of quite a few where I have thought "wow, fantastic music".

SFAM is a fantastic piece of music, one of my other favorite DT albums but the story is not that great to me. How it is told through the music makes it great though. Same with the Astonishing. The story has made them focus on feelings and themes... love the recurring themes throughout the albums.

I sure hope that even if the next album is not a concept album or a rock opera that they keep the way of composing that they did here. I don't want them to go back to jamming together to see what happens.

[Lucien]

2:04 of Heaven's Cove is really cool. Makes me think of someone happily walking through a forest, interchanged with a view of a monster stalking close, behind trees and bushes...

[RaasMah]

That is a very peculiar argument to make for an album whose story is the main focus. Saying "if I want a good story, I'll read a book" for a rock opera/musical, IMHO relegates the key aspect of this whole thing.

While Im on the side that find the story very much OK, and care far more about the music itself, I agree with you. The story matters in a rock opera, hell it mattered to DT a lot. So answering people who critisize the story with that quote is indeed foolish in my opinion.