*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[hefdaddy42]

Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

I actually thought that might be the case, given the length of the disc and the fact that this never-ending outro was the only fadeout.

[rumborak]

Mangini's latest FB post:
.... I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues....

That's probably true for the European venues, but the Orpheum in Boston will not be that. It's an old theater venue that was run down by decades of drunken metal fans, with the stucco falling off, and the PA booming the place to a pulp. Now, the Boston Opera House that BTFW was filmed in, that was a nice venue.

[Logain Ablar]

I'm not sure it was a third party.  I think it was all Jordan.  But those NOMAC sounds consist of several different tracks of Jordan playing a bunch of different sounds.  I imagine it wasn't really clear exactly how long they would be until whoever was in charge of mixing them mixed all the various tracks together to produce the final version of each of those.

Looks like you were right about Jordan creating the NOMAC sounds. From this article, which is a good read: https://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/1236/astonishing-the-many-facets-of-jordan-rudess/56682

Though this is definitely a “Dream Theater album,” it called upon us to go even deeper and broader than we normally do. It’s . . . fusion of sorts. In one sense it’s “prog,” but it goes beyond any combination of elements we’ve ever done. Some of that fell to me. I had to go into my electronica world to create the sound of the Noise Machine creatures, which enforce for the bad guys.

[Gappie]

Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

Nice! Thanks for sharing. It was great live, on Friday it got a big standing ovation.

Yup it was great live! They also got  a big standing ovation in Amsterdam afterwards. Lasted a couple of minutes actually.

[ResultsMayVary]

I'm not sure it was a third party.  I think it was all Jordan.  But those NOMAC sounds consist of several different tracks of Jordan playing a bunch of different sounds.  I imagine it wasn't really clear exactly how long they would be until whoever was in charge of mixing them mixed all the various tracks together to produce the final version of each of those.

Looks like you were right about Jordan creating the NOMAC sounds. From this article, which is a good read: https://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/1236/astonishing-the-many-facets-of-jordan-rudess/56682

Though this is definitely a “Dream Theater album,” it called upon us to go even deeper and broader than we normally do. It’s . . . fusion of sorts. In one sense it’s “prog,” but it goes beyond any combination of elements we’ve ever done. Some of that fell to me. I had to go into my electronica world to create the sound of the Noise Machine creatures, which enforce for the bad guys.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge from before the album came out that Jordan was responsible for creating the NOMAC tracks.

[KevShmev]

Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

Cool info, thanks for sharing!

And given the day and age we live in, I think it would have been cool for DT to take the original A New Beginning and put it on iTunes as a song you can buy individually, for those who want it.  It would be so easy to do!!

[pcs90]

I listened to a recording of the 2/22nd show, and the A New Beginning solo is definitely not 3 to 4 minutes longer. It's just like the London videos, maybe 30 seconds added at most. So is there more that they are going to add to it? If JP says it's 3-4 minutes longer there must be some stuff they still haven't played on the tour.

[BlobVanDam]

Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

I actually thought that might be the case, given the length of the disc and the fact that this never-ending outro was the only fadeout.

This was my theory all along, between the ANB solo and the extended version of Descent of the NOMACS.

They could totally release ANB as a single EP with the extended cut. I'm sure many of us would buy it, myself included.

[mike099]

After the initial listen straight thru with one break, I was thinking wtf did I just listen to.  I took the advice of other folks and listened to about 4 songs at a time.  Act1 clicked first, but Act2 took longer.  I need to take this off my ipod until after the concert in 2 months.  I find myself listening to the cd all of the time.  I have avoided the you tube videos.  Most you tube videos do not sound close to the actual concert.  I have looked at some awesome pictures someone posted in the concert section of the second London show.

[Kotowboy]

The Astonishing doesn't have many tracks you can just put on and listen to.

Mostly I start at the beginning of an Act and keep listening.

Or I put on Our New World

[MirrorMask]

I'm still listening to it from start to finish.

I already have figured out how my "abridged version" will look like, but I want to do it only after my show... I don't want to get used to the short version and then go at the concert "Meh, I forgot about this song" 

[Mladen]

I've always felt that A New beginning fades out because they needed to fit the entire act one on the disc. It's still a masterpiece of a solo, though, I can only imagine what it would be like if it were longer.

[Luoto]

I've always felt that A New beginning fades out because they needed to fit the entire act one on the disc. It's still a masterpiece of a solo, though, I can only imagine what it would be like if it were longer.

Your assumption is correct. The solo/instrumental section was supposed to go past the 10 minute mark, and I heard they're doing the full version on tour.

[RaasMah]

These ANB extended solo news are new to me. What do you think are the odds we will ever hear the real full solo?

[bosk1]

By "real" I assume you mean the version they recorded in the studio originally, correct?  I think the odds are slim to none.  They aren't planning on releasing singles from this album, so there is no shot at it being released that way (and it is long for a single anyway).  I can't see them releasing it in any other format.

[King Postwhore]

Mangini's latest FB post:
.... I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues....

That's probably true for the European venues, but the Orpheum in Boston will not be that. It's an old theater venue that was run down by decades of drunken metal fans, with the stucco falling off, and the PA booming the place to a pulp. Now, the Boston Opera House that BTFW was filmed in, that was a nice venue.

It's still better than the Palladium in Worcester, Mass.  I can only assume that is what hell is like.

[ariich]

I've always felt that A New beginning fades out because they needed to fit the entire act one on the disc. It's still a masterpiece of a solo, though, I can only imagine what it would be like if it were longer.

Your assumption is correct. The solo/instrumental section was supposed to go past the 10 minute mark, and I heard they're doing the full version on tour.

10 minute mark? That doesn't sound right at all. At the London show, they only went on maybe another 30 seconds.

[Hypnotoad]

Spoke to JP after last night gig in Amsterdam and he told me a somewhat dramatic story about the recordings. They intended to have the Nomacs parts shorter than they turned out to be. So after mastering he received a call where he was told that Act 1 wouldn't fit on one disc. Since everything with regards to artwork and tracklists were already published they had to make a hard decision to cut the guitar solo of New Beginning. That's why it fades out. Originally the solo lasted 3 to 4 minutes longer!
But.......during the live shows you will witness the full guitarsolo how it was intented to be. Hands down one of the most beautiful solos ever.

Thoughtt you might like this info.

It's a shame that they had to adhere to the 80 min CD limit when so much music is listened to digitally. I'd love them to release A New Beginning (Extended Version) with the full guitar solo as a single . It would be so good to add the full track into the album instead of the faded out version

[RaasMah]

By "real" I assume you mean the version they recorded in the studio originally, correct?  I think the odds are slim to none.  They aren't planning on releasing singles from this album, so there is no shot at it being released that way (and it is long for a single anyway).  I can't see them releasing it in any other format.

That is correct. I know the chance are slim but they arent zero I think. I bet its somewhere on their hard drives. Who knows, maybe in some future "greatest hit nr 2"... one can only hope.

I just find it such a shame. It really is one of my favoriets solo of JP, and to think it supposed to last for 3 more mins makes me want to hear it so bad.

Do you think its possible to get the band opinion of this matter?

[ariich]

I just find it such a shame. It really is one of my favoriets solo of JP, and to think it supposed to last for 3 more mins makes me want to hear it so bad.

As I said above, 3 minutes doesn't sound right. keys76 said we're getting to hear the full thing like, and it only went on about 30 seconds more.

[RaasMah]

I just find it such a shame. It really is one of my favoriets solo of JP, and to think it supposed to last for 3 more mins makes me want to hear it so bad.

As I said above, 3 minutes doesn't sound right. keys76 said we're getting to hear the full thing like, and it only went on about 30 seconds more.

Maybe they stick to the studio version, and just finish it without a fadeout. I was there too and it was indeed not really an extended solo.

3 min seems much to me too, but if JP really said it then it has to be there somewhere. I wish we could just get this sorted by someone of the band.

[bosk1]

What is there left to sort out?  The solo fades out a bit before the end because they ran out of space on the album.  JP is playing pretty much the full solo at the shows.  What is the issue?

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

I think people are just a bit intrigued by the fact that there is a studio version of an extended JP solo that hasn't been released, since this is probably the first time since FII where DT has recorded something that they haven't released. It's also interesting to think that JP probably has a copy of the song with the full solo, since he had to practice and relearn the songs before the tour. It would be a cool thing for them to upload to youtube so we can hear it in it's entirety. They probably won't do it, but it would still be a cool thing for them to do.

[Prog Snob]

I just checked the bootlegs for the shows on 2/18 and 2/22 and the solo isn't any longer than it is on the studio album.  It clocks in at about 2 and half minutes.

[Dream Team]

Mangini's latest FB post:
.... I can tell the acoustics and smallest details of the drums are being heard given the design of the venues....

That's probably true for the European venues, but the Orpheum in Boston will not be that. It's an old theater venue that was run down by decades of drunken metal fans, with the stucco falling off, and the PA booming the place to a pulp. Now, the Boston Opera House that BTFW was filmed in, that was a nice venue.

It's still better than the Palladium in Worcester, Mass.  I can only assume that is what hell is like.

Ha ha, been there twice. Quite a place.

[erwinrafael]

Did JP really say that the ANB solo is supposed to be 3-4 minutes longer? Or did he mean that it was supposed to be 3-4 minutes long in total, not the 2min + solo that we got in the studio version?

[ariich]

Did JP really say that the ANB solo is supposed to be 3-4 minutes longer? Or did he mean that it was supposed to be 3-4 minutes long in total, not the 2min + solo that we got in the studio version?

This seems more realistic.

[RaasMah]

What is there left to sort out?  The solo fades out a bit before the end because they ran out of space on the album.  JP is playing pretty much the full solo at the shows.  What is the issue?

If JP indeed said that there is a longer version of the solo, than I would have really wanted to hear it. The recent shows doesnt seem to fit into that "longer" slot, just a way to finish the song live.

erwinrafael suggestion makes sense, and would explain this confusion. Im just dreaming about an official word about this, so we would know if there really is a much longer version of the solo somewhere in the DT lab.

[bosk1]

It fades out before the end.  Of course there is a longer version. 

[emtee]

Cool to hear JP's response to why the solo fades out. All in all not that big of a deal BUT it is something I wondered about from
the first listen. Everything else flows so naturally into the next song but that was the only one that took a different approach.
I think it was natural to wonder why?

[RoeDent]

Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

[bosk1]

Act 1 is near-enough 80 minutes (my player displays 79:59), and the NOMAC tracks on that disc totals 2:14, so that's the longest possible extra time for the solo to be extended if the NOMAC tracks were removed.

I get why you say that, but that isn't necessarily true.  Although I don't think this is the case, hypothetically, the solo could have been, say, 5 minutes longer.  But maybe fading it out at some point later would not have made sense because, let's say, the way the solo was structured, the logical place to start fading it out is much earlier.

[ariich]

I think RoeDent was merely suggested the maximum possible, rather than suggested it was that amount longer. Though that's still based on an assumption that the whole of Act I fit on a disc without the NOMAC tracks, which may not be the case.

[hefdaddy42]

It fades out before the end.  Of course there is a longer version.

This.  There is no revelation here.

But if they start releasing "full" versions of album "fadeout" songs, I want Learning to Live WAY before this one.

[BelichickFan]

If there's really a long version of A New Beginning they should just sell it on itunes for a couple of bucks.  They win, we win.