*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Where are all of the reasonable people in between the two ridiculous extremes?

Which extremes would that be?

IF I am reading this right (it's damn hard to tell), it looks like there are people on the internet that are butthurt that there isn't enough metal on this.  As demonstrated, there are an equal amount of people here at the other end, who are butthurt at the metal butthurt folks, saying they've transcended metal in some fashion.

Paraphrasing on my part.

[BlobVanDam]

I thought the concept of extremes was self explanatory. Kotowboy got it.

[GasparXR]

Ohhh you guys.

[Azyiu]

With my luck, I just got my copy today and am listening to it for the first time ever as I am typing this!! So far so good!! 

Speaking of the new DT album, you wouldn't believe my luck!! So I went to this cd shop first day it came out, and they've got a copy of the disc... cool, right? So as soon as I grabbed it, I noticed some rattling sound coming from within as I was carrying it. I asked the shop to open it for me to check what's wrong before I decide whether to buy that copy. One of the discs came loose, and it was actually scratched!! Guess what? That's the ONLY copy they have!! And I haven't a chance to look elsewhere until today!! 

[Prog Snob]

I thought the concept of extremes was self explanatory. Kotowboy got it.

It is. But your term "reasonable" is contradictory to the extremes. Why can't it be reasonable that some people hate it or love it? The opinions here are not a microcosm of the actual responses to the CD. Besides, from what I've read there have been plenty of reasonable reactions to the new CD.

[Progmetty]

DT posted a video on fb of them answering fan questions, I haven't seen the video yet cause I'm at work but where are they getting these questions from?

[noxon]

Psychic connections.

[DreamerTV]

Been reading DT facebook page for the first time in weeks, i have to say that the level of criticism is pretty high, even for Dt standards.
Expected as it was for this kind of album, maybe more than the sold copies of the album, the success, or failure, of the tour will say us more about the future of the band.

[Kotowboy]

I thought the concept of extremes was self explanatory. Kotowboy got it.

The Internet. Home of hyperbole ! No grey area allowed !

[ResultsMayVary]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Amen brother!  I have been waiting so long for DT to get to this point, they are just too talented not to. I sincerely hope they continue along these lines. If it's not metal enough for you, then there's plenty of other bands to bang your head to.

  to JR's comment.  He is basically saying in a nice way, "Upset there's not enough metal?  Go cry about it somewhere else."  And I totally agree with him.  DT has 12 other studio albums, almost all of which have quite a bit of metal.  If you want metal, go listen to those and stop crying that TA isn't something you want it to be, rather than what it is. /end rant

There's a decent amount of heavy parts on this album and JP is using his 7 string quite a bit.

Just off the top of my head, these songs on TA definitely have a metal vibe in some places: The Gift of Music, Lord Nafaryus, Three Days, A Tempting Offer, A New Beginning, Moment of Betrayal, Heaven's Cove, The Path That Divides, The Walking Shadow, and My Last Farewell.

Hell, you could stick The Path That Divides on Train of Thought and Moment of Betrayal on DT12 and they'd fit.

[Progmetty]

I think 2285 Entr'acte is modeled after The Last Few Bricks.
For non-Floyd fans; The Last Few Bricks is an instrumental piece that Pink Floyd performed on The Wall shows, it -among other tracks- was not on the studio version of the album, but was released on the live album.
Roger Waters said later that they wrote the song to give the stage hands more time to finalize the building of the wall on stage before they get to the song Goodbye Cruel World, which in the album's story line completes the psychological barrier the lead character has been building around himself for isolation and alienation from society, it ends the first CD of the double album.
The Last Few Bricks compiles musical themes from the first CD.

[dparrott]

First two listens of A Life Left Behind: that intro kinda sounds like Porcupine Tree.
Third listen: wow the whole song sounds like Porcupine Tree!

[smegolas]

The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

[Jinx]

Does anyone remember in around December people were (for some reason) questioning whether the album would be released before the tour kicks off. Definitely there was talk on the Facebook group about it as well.

Could you imagine first time listening to this live before hearing the CD? How much would fly over your head? I've listened to this nearly every day and am still finding recurring themes and tidbits.

[Jinx]

The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

Exactly what Mangini said in his Facebook post earlier this week. Can't wait 1 week to the show 

[Dream Team]

Been reading DT facebook page for the first time in weeks, i have to say that the level of criticism is pretty high, even for Dt standards.
Expected as it was for this kind of album, maybe more than the sold copies of the album, the success, or failure, of the tour will say us more about the future of the band.

What a bunch of boorish douches, after the amount of work the band put into this. Talk about not getting the concept. They were intentionally going for a symphonic rock opera. The critics must have been living under a rock if they expected a full-on metal onslaught.

[MirrorMask]

The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

Exactly and totally this! Said from a metalhead.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

IT'S NOT TOO LATE

I WON'T BETRAY HIIIIM

*PUNKASS RIFF*

[Kotowboy]

I hate djent but I like the djent-ish riff in My Last Farewell.   2:50

In fact I put on Begin Again today and couldn't stop listening until the end of the album.

[Kotowboy]

The fact that there is less heavy stuff on the album makes the heavy stuff that there is stand out more.  So much better when it isn't overkill.

Exactly and totally this! Said from a metalhead.

I said the same thing too.  Like when they do decide to start shredding - it really stands out as a highlight.


130 mins of solo trade offs would be tedious.

[rab7]

IT'S NOT TOO LATE

I WON'T BETRAY HIIIIM

*PUNKASS RIFF*

This reminds me, does anyone know what the choir says during this time?

All I could pick up was "Daryus. Arhys. ??. Pray for your Life?"

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

IT'S NOT TOO LATE

I WON'T BETRAY HIIIIM

*PUNKASS RIFF*

This reminds me, does anyone know what the choir says during this time?

All I could pick up was "Daryus. Arhys. ??. Pray for your Life?"

I picked up 'RAAAAW DOOG'

[YOWspotter]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

[hefdaddy42]

Well, you are definitely reading more into what he said than, well, what he said.


I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.

[YOWspotter]

Well, you are definitely reading more into what he said than, well, what he said.


I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.

I agree about The Path, and I quoted that one as a standout on TA for me in an earlier post.  I'd suggest that this track contains the elements of "metal" that DT gives us that we like, while remaining unquestionably DT.

Just checking to make sure I'm still allowed to like that style of DT and request (dare I say expect) more of that.

[hefdaddy42]

You're allowed to do anything you like.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

*relieves himself on floor of the thread*

[King Postwhore]

Well, you are definitely reading more into what he said than, well, what he said.


I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.

Bet you say that to all the prog bands.


When haven't people figured out that DT is more than just metal?  It's only been like this forever.

[Prog Snob]

I would also just like to report that The Path That Divides rocks my face.

That's a disturbing vision.

[bosk1]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

His post was spot on, given that it was directly in response to people literally saying that The Astonishing is not metal enough, and many of them doing so in a very disrespectful way.  If you cannot distinguish between those kinds of posts, on one hand, vs. those respectfully saying they are attracted to DT's more metal side, then the fact that you completely missed Jordan's point is on you rather than him.

[cramx3]

I actually like that response by JR, "Oh you don't think it's metal enough, that's fine, there are other metal bands for you to listen too"  FUCK YEA. 

The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

This is coming from a metal fan, someone who got into DT because of the heaviness, but it is their melody that really keeps me into them.  The melodies are awesome on this album, my biggest problem with the album is that some of the best melodies aren't repeated.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

https://www.metalwani.com/2016/02/interview-dream-theaters-jordan-rudess-on-the-astonishing.html#comments

Jordan: "I'm so proud of this...anybody who comes and says it's not metal enough, you know what? That's fine, you can go listen to some other band that has driving metal the whole time...I feel like this is the next level of Dream Theater where the band has matured to a point where we can just make music."

Disappointing commentary right there by JR, but I'm unsurprised that it's coming from him.

I don't think any reasonable dissenter has suggested that this record isn't a great accomplishment, and one that they shouldn't be proud of.  Nor do I think that any reasonable dissenter has suggested that the band compose "driving metal the whole time".

His comments make it seem like he's unable to filter away mindless criticisms of haters who seem to expect DT to be Slayer 2.0.  Guess what?  There's a component of DT fans who were and are attracted to the band's metal influences.  That doesn't mean we expect balls-to-the-wall shredding for 80 minutes ...

In this one statement he basically gives us the one-finger salute, telling us that we should go elsewhere to fulfil that need because they've matured beyond our tastes.  I guess there's no room left on the wagon for us anymore?

He didn't give anyone the one-finger salute, you're just seeing what you want to see.

Dream Theater has released previously full-on metal albums that are meant to please people of your tastes (I presume), like Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos, so why couldn't they release something this time around that was more grounded on the band's softer side? After 13 albums, they've done and recorded A HELL LOT of music, so there's something for everyone in those 9+ hours of music the band has put out. I agree with JR in his statement, because this album feels really mature and really sincere; they wanted to write a musical, and they wrote a musical without worrying too much on what would people think, and that risk is what has made Dream Theater successful in the past.

If you're not comfortable with change and progression, you can always check out Megadeth's Dystopia new album. Plenty of riffs there, just like the ones they have been playing for 20+ years.

[rab7]

A HELL LOT

Sounds like a Parking Lot where every time you find an empty space, a car gets there before you.

If you're not comfortable with change and progression, you can always check out Megadeth's Dystopia new album.

I would also recommend Symphony X's Underworld, which came out a few months ago. I didn't really like the fact that they've gone super heavy for their past 2 albums, but now that The Astonishing is out, I realize its a perfect complement if I'm craving the really heavy stuff.

[Enigmachine]

The album is definitely more soft than any other DT album, but there is still a shit ton of heavy metal in this.  The music is beautiful and tasteful and is part of the story.  What kind of story is all out balls to the wall metal?  Most other concept albums and rock operas have a large "soft" side to them because it's part of the mood of telling the story.

Isn't FII a bit softer? Sure, there's NM, PS, BMS, LitS and JLMB which are quite heavy, though more in a rock way than a metal way. TA has Three Days, A Tempting Offer, Moment of Betrayal, The Path That Divides and The Walking Shadow / My Last Farewell that are definitely driven by a metallic heaviness, among quite a few other songs like A Better Life, Lord Nafaryus, Ravenskill and A New Beginning which have prominent heavy sections. It might be pretty close, actually. I'm not really sure about it.

[Another_Won]

A HELL LOT

Sounds like a Parking Lot where every time you find an empty space, a car gets there before you.
.

or one where the best spot is always reserved by a cone.