*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Train of Naught]

:3

So you listened to the album once in the last week. Plus 2 songs again presumably. Which ones were they?

Actually my last.fm only scrobbles 33 tracks per listen, Hovering Sojourn is apparently too short to register or some shit. 

I also listened o You Suffer by Napalm Death over a hundred times but it says I never played it because it's too short.

[Podaar]

i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

For me, it's kind of a funny album for how audible the bass is. Other than A New Beginning, I don't notice the bass on this album while listening to it, unless... it's anywhere near a subwoofer. And then, 

I turned up the crossover and lowered the volume on my subwoofer in the living room the other day listened to the whole album. It made a huge difference with having JMX really part of the performance.

Oh, and it also makes the kick drum sound perfect.

[Bacong]

i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

do you have an EQ on your music app?

[TheAtliator]

@MirrorMask They played the intro on Score. I'd have to think about any other instances...

i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

Funny, I was gonna say something similar. I don't know that I'd say the mix was different (that would be pretty interesting) but I absolutely noticed the bass parts that I'd never really heard, simply due to actually watching JMX playing it close up, so you can't miss it. And that kind of happened with other parts for me too; there's so much going on musically in that song, that it's hard to really pay attention to everything that's there, and watching them is a cool experience because it makes more sense of it to your ears 

[mikemangioy]

Okay, I'll just sit here for a while writing a track by track opinion, while I re-listen to the record (this has to be my fourth or fifth listen-through, without counting the single songs)

Descent Of The NOMACS  I'm always fond of great intros. This is one of them, I love the overall vibe of it and the creepy sound effect that build tension.

Dystopian Overture  I really like this overture, but I feel it lacks a bit of identity. Overture 1928 was a strong song, and it did not just present themes from the album, but it did something on its own. But still, I like the structure, and I dig every single part of it.

The Gift Of Music  Well, I've always liked this song a lot since it came out. It sounds fresh for DT, and happy, a vibe they seem to have forgotten for a bit. I love the instrumental section and the choir section. Shivers each time.

The Answer  Nice little tune. I like how clean it all sounds. It's a very light hearted song that makes me feel quite good.

A Better Life  One of the best tracks of the whole thing. It manages both to be badass and quite touching.

Lord Nafaryus  Dang. Halfway insane, halfway badass. I really love the "I've heard the whispering of revolution" part. A great introduction to the villain.

A Savior In The Square Another standout. Incredible songwriting going on here. Some of the best stuff since Octavarium. I wish it was longer 

When Your Time Has Come  While a normal pop-rock song, this is incredibly refreshing. I really like the chorus and the outro feels really epic. The synth melody reminds me of some old school italian prog vibes.

Act Of Faythe  Good enough track, nothing special. I find that the main theme is used in much better ways in other songs. But I like the intro and the outro, they make this piece somewhat deep. The negative thing is that it could be a skip-track since the track after is a monster.

Three Days  Jesus. This is amazingly great. Heavy riffs, ragtime, jazz, blast beats... and James is on fire! One of the best tracks! 

The Hovering Sojourn  I think that out of all the NOMACS tracks, this is the one that represents best the idea of shitty electronic music with no real rhythm or melody.

Brother, Can You Hear Me?  At first I kind of cringed at this song. But now, it's one of my favorites to listen to; it's epic to the core, and the part when the melody gets reprised is incredible. Very heart warming and hymn-sounding piece.

A Life Left Behind  The intro sounds to me like a less electric version of Breaking All Illusions. This is another awesome track that is capable of turning a simple ballad into something much more creative and fun.

Ravenskill  Among the greatest songs in the whole album. From the atmospheric beautiful intro, to the badass riff, and one of the best performances by James in all his career... this is an incredible semi-ballad. Wow.

Chosen  This part of the album is basically ballad after ballad but I don't freaking care. This is another charming piece, with tons of amazing and emotional melodies.

A Tempting Offer  Yet another incredible song. It starts out all creepy and it gives me chills, especially thanks to James' portrayal of a pedophile-ish Daryus, then it gets all epic but still badass. Lots of shivers and headbanging in this one.

Digital Discord  This shit is eerie man. That huge sound at the beginning is creepy as hell.

The X Aspect  I could've done without another song about the betrayal, but this is a great track - quite dramatic. The Brother Can You Hear Me bagpipe part is incredibly dramatic in tone and gives depth to the story arch.

A New Beginning  Fun track! Happy 7/4 verses with a badass reprise of Lord Nafaryus as a chorus. I also love the instrumental part and that solo groove is cool.

The Road To Revolution  Excellent closing track for act 1! It takes all the cool themes and includes them to give a sum up of the story so far. I really love it. Also, DAT high note at the end.

Okay, that was Act 1. Time to take a piss or something, then I'll get on to act 2.

[dparrott]

These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

[Kotowboy]

These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

I still like The Answer Lies Within - even though I appear to be the only DT fan in existence that does.

[Crow]

i just watched TGOM music video because i'm late and

okay
is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

do you have an EQ on your music app?

i get bass plenty fine on a lot of other albums i've been listening to as recently as yesterday, so it's just The Astonishing that's having the problem of bass being way low in the mix

unrelated:
i'm really sad that A Life Left Behind starts out so cool but then turns into another ballad, even if i do like the chorus of the track a lot, i wish they'd have done more with the opening bit that's pretty much completely detached from the rest of the song

[Enigmachine]

unrelated:
i'm really sad that A Life Left Behind starts out so cool but then turns into another ballad, even if i do like the chorus of the track a lot, i wish they'd have done more with the opening bit that's pretty much completely detached from the rest of the song

I suppose it's both a blessing and a curse that the songs on TA go through multiple 'movements' which they often never return to within the same song.

[pantsofeternity]

is it just me or is Myung more audible in the video than he actually is on the album? I wasn't even really paying attention to the bassline at first but it caught my ear pretty easily, whereas I've never really noticed his parts on the album version

Funny, I was gonna say something similar. I don't know that I'd say the mix was different (that would be pretty interesting) but I absolutely noticed the bass parts that I'd never really heard, simply due to actually watching JMX playing it close up, so you can't miss it. And that kind of happened with other parts for me too; there's so much going on musically in that song, that it's hard to really pay attention to everything that's there, and watching them is a cool experience because it makes more sense of it to your ears 

Yeah, I had this feeling too, that I really noticed the bass when I could see him playing -- I think it was just a psychological effect.  P sure it's an identical audio track.

And agreed 100% with anyone who said the right headphones or subwoofer will really give you the bassline definition you need.

[dparrott]

unrelated:
i'm really sad that A Life Left Behind starts out so cool but then turns into another ballad, even if i do like the chorus of the track a lot, i wish they'd have done more with the opening bit that's pretty much completely detached from the rest of the song

I suppose it's both a blessing and a curse that the songs on TA go through multiple 'movements' which they often never return to within the same song.

I actually like that, keeps it interesting for me. 

heh eh heh this part of the songs sucks but it gets cool later heh eh heh

[Enigmachine]

I actually like that, keeps it interesting for me. 

That's why I said it's a blessing as well. It can make a song feel really dynamic. However, it can also de-emphasise some really cool parts.

[mikemangioy]

Act 2 opinions ahead:

2285 Entr'acte  Okay I like this better than Dystopian Overture. It's a fun way to reintroduce the vibe and it's written amazingly well.

(note: the transition between 2285EA and MOB is freaking cool.)

Moment Of Betrayal  Cool song that kinda falls flat compared to the rest of the album, since it's the most "late DT"-ish of the whole thing. But it's cool enough.

Heaven's Cove  This is another song that I wish was longer. The arpeggio/riff is great, and I like the way it slowly develops into heaviness.

Begin Again  With a cool intro like this (and also the outro, to an extent), I really expected more. This is just another of Faythe's "yeah I fell in love woohoo" songs. Also, a mesh of Chosen and The Answer. Could've used another type of track, I think this is my least favorite.

The Path That Divides  Easily in the very top best of the album. Such a dramatic and theatrical track! There's lots going on and it's really fun to listen to.

Machine Chatter  Kind of wrong placement, I think it kills the climax of the album - But overall, this is quite groovy to be NOMACS. I like it.

The Walking Shadow  For a while I thought this was another one of those "I WISH IT WAS LONGER" tracks. But it's just so good that it's perfect the way it is. Again, one of my favorites.

My Last Farewell  Another grower - I love the mesh of melanchonic and dark/heavy vibes. It reminds me of something, but I can't tell what. Probably some ballad from the band.

Losing Faythe  Nice ballad. I like the chill vibe even though that's not quite the vibe they were going for, looking at the story at this point. It's catchy, I even go back to it once in a while. I love the climax.

Whispers On The Wind  Great performance by James, and overall a great composition.

Hymn Of A Thousand Voices  This track was so unexpected. A country-esque song with a gospel finale? Wow. A tad bit underwhelming, but good nontheless.

Our New World  This song is really uplifting! I like the simple and cool vibe to it, and the A Savior In The Square reprise just feels amazing to listen to after all that happened in the story.

Power Down  Amazing final NOMACS track. Really dig how everything kind of fails to work and glitches towards the end. Probably my favorite of the five.

Astonishing  This is a great closure for the story. It really feels complete after this and the finale is pretty touching. I love this song.


Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

[MirrorMask]

Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

My opinion in a nutshell. It's not gloriously perfect but it's wonderful.

[Thematt202]

Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

My opinion in a nutshell. It's not gloriously perfect but it's wonderful.

It's pretty damn close to perfection IMO. A few more little guitar solos and it would be there.

[Enigmachine]

I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

It really is amazing how much passion and ambition DT still have for the kind of band that they are and how long they've been active. What other band creates their grandest work 30 years into their discography and gets praised by critics for it?

[MirrorMask]

I was going to say Judas Priest, but no one cared for Nostradamus sadly 

Well, not really no one, I love that album and I applaud them for taking the chance just as I applaud DT for The Astonishing. Too bad I'm in the vast minority.

[Enigmachine]

I was going to say Judas Priest, but no one cared for Nostradamus sadly 

Well, not really no one, I love that album and I applaud them for taking the chance just as I applaud DT for The Astonishing. Too bad I'm in the vast minority.

I like it as well and wasn't suggesting that DT were the only ones to do what I said but yeah, Nostradamus isn't exactly critically adored enough to count as an example. 

[Scorpion]

I was going to say Judas Priest, but no one cared for Nostradamus sadly 

Well, not really no one, I love that album and I applaud them for taking the chance just as I applaud DT for The Astonishing. Too bad I'm in the vast minority.

Can... can it be? Somebody else who loves Nostradamus?

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE WE MUST NOW BE BEST FRIENDS FOREVER OKAY

[Enigmachine]

To be fair with the negative reaction to Nostradamus, Judas Priest's fanbase aren't exactly the audience who want a double disc concept album. I admire their bravery though.

[dparrott]

Conclusion: The Astonishing, despite a few flaws, is incredible. I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

My opinion in a nutshell. It's not gloriously perfect but it's wonderful.

It's pretty damn close to perfection IMO. A few more little guitar solos and it would be there.

I would like less of the slow songs, but then it would leave holes in the story, so it's a toss up.  But yes it's near perfection.

[Kotowboy]

2:50 in The Path That Divides 

Almost two weeks and i'm limiting my listens of this album to avoid getting sick of it like I did with DT12.

I get goosebumps all over the place. I absolutely think it's a remarkable album.

[TAC]

2:50 in The Path That Divides 

 

I get goosebumps all over the place. I absolutely think it's a remarkable album.

Agreed on both counts.

The Path That Divides is my favorite song on the album. I love that first verse.

[Kotowboy]

I love the rare moments on the album where they do let rip. Those moments stand out rather than it being a 5 minute solo trade off on every song.

[Architeuthis]

I wouldn't be surprised either way.  They could play a number of pieces that they don't actually play and just use a tape for (e.g., Six Degrees Overture, False Awakening Suite, Metropolis Pt. 1 opening, etc.).  Whatever they decide to do will make sense in the context of the show for reasons we have absolutely zero idea about, so I wouldn't speculate one way or the other.

I would be disappointed if they didn't play Dystopian Overture live , it's just too powerful to have it piped in. I want to hear it in full force with the attention on the band with big bright lights!

[Rickharris1011]

Maybe "filler" isn't the right word, but the middle of Act II is a somewhat long span of nothing musically remarkable.

It's harder for me to digest Act II because most of the songs don't have a predominant refrain, and after the first listen, I'm not in it for the story.  Moment of Betrayal and Our New World have more of a classic form - easier to relate and re-listen, and Hymn of 1000 Voices has that Pink Floyd march feel, like Brother can you hear me and (parts of) Road to Revolution.  I guess Begin Again has a classic form, but I just don't care that much for it. The stretch from Path that Divides to Whispers in the Wind has some amazing parts, but harder for me to listen to straight through because as John Popper once said, there's no "hook that brings me back"

I still like it a lot, but I can only listen to Act 2 in smaller chunks, usually (MoB/HC) (PTD/WS/LF) (Hymn/ONW)

[Architeuthis]

These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

I still like The Answer Lies Within - even though I appear to be the only DT fan in existence that does.

I like it..

[clinks63]

Regarding the "my music player" line--which I also find grating and takes me out of the story...

This is my favorite moment of the album.  Made me tear up on first listen.  Just reaches right into that part of my memory when I was a new kid at school in 7th grade (brutal year to be the new kid) and the only friend I had was my music player.

This is not to say you're wrong... I have plenty of thoughts on where JP & co. might have used a second pair of eyes when lyric-writing over the past several albums... but just, one's trash lyric is another's treasure. 

I loved that line also because my music player is so integral to my lifestyle that I can listen to two full runs of TA in a day. That's how much time I spend listening to it.

it's the only awkward part of the album

and also, it's not a Walkman or an iPod. More like of player/powerbank with built in earphones

Can't help but think this album would be a little better with MP's drumming.  I miss all his different percussion sounds he'd make.

i agree, with max stax sounds

I don't even compare it to previous DT albums. To me it stands on its own merit.

I agree with this so much. Because it's so long and different, it's really hard to place with the rest of their discography, though in terms of effort it's clearly on top.

I've been saying since my first listen, it's really incredibly difficult to figure out where this album would place within the discography of DT.  It either needs to be on it's under a "Soundtrack" category, or have an asterisks next to the title.

I might sound as a fanboy in which I am, I really applaud the band & John Petrucci for having the balls to create this idea at this point in DT history. From the characters, the story, the map is outstanding work. There will be critics of course, but many of us fans can't wait to see this on stage & how James will portray each character live, which will be a challenging task, but he will pull it off well

i pretty much consider TA as not standard album to listen to and not directly compare to the rest of disco

Agree with the ariich too. Actually I think they must have trimmed down a lot, there's much more that could've gone into it like the turning of Lord Nafaryus  (WHY does he use NOMACS if he loved music?), a more in depth explanation of Daryus' comeuppance, more info with the NOMACS themselves...

Also agree with a lot of people about Whispers On The Wind. Pretty sure it could've been one track with Losing Faythe. Also would be a double meaning with Gabriel losing faith in himself.

As far as the NOMACS go, my 13-year-old son who likes TA a lot told me this morning : "The NOMACS don't really serve any purpose. It's a shame, I would have liked something more coming out of it". I completely agree with him.

i'm assuming NOMACS section would be the part were major change in costumes and stage setup would occur during the live opera

[SebastianPratesi]

For those who are more knowledgeable about guitar here, is there a similarity in the TGOM intro and The Answer intro or is it just the plucking pattern?

Well, they sound similar: they are both arpeggios on major keys, and they both are in 4/4, but I wouldn't say they share the same plucking pattern.

On "The Gift of Music" John accentuates in such a way that I hear 7 notes plus another 9 (making the 16 eighth notes corresponding to 2 bars), whereas in "The Answer" I hear a simpler pattern (they sound like groups of 8 notes).

They are not the same chord progressions either, I think.

[JMSE]

At last I could sit down and review this behemoth. Here's an excerpt from my review:

To see such an ambitious project from a band that has been around for 30 years is really impressive; especially when you consider they are coming from a streak of 3 top 10 debut albums on Billboard and 2 Grammy nominations. This Prog-Opera known as The Astonishing is not a traditional progressive rock album, nor should it be judged as such. It was a risky move by the band to go this direction; but it is a risk that, in my humble opinion, really paid off. Dream Theater has give fans their most exciting album in over 15 years.

https://sweetelation.wordpress.com/2016/02/10/album-review-the-astonishing-by-dream-theater/

[lovethedrake]

These are the first DT ballads I have actually liked since SFAM.

I still like The Answer Lies Within - even though I appear to be the only DT fan in existence that does.

I like it..

The Bridge: "you've got the future on your side, etc.." is one of my favorite parts on the album.  I don't love the album though so take that for what its worth.  Its a decent song.

[erwinrafael]

Trivial tidbit: Just noticed that in the file information for my HDTracks FLAC files, the genre specified for thr songs is "rock / hard rock"

[BlobVanDam]

HDTracks must be pretty general with their categories!

[mikemangioy]

I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

It really is amazing how much passion and ambition DT still have for the kind of band that they are and how long they've been active. What other band creates their grandest work 30 years into their discography and gets praised by critics for it?

Well, Rush did. 40 years in their career.

[Enigmachine]

I don't care what anyone says. DT still have it. After 30 years.

It really is amazing how much passion and ambition DT still have for the kind of band that they are and how long they've been active. What other band creates their grandest work 30 years into their discography and gets praised by critics for it?

Well, Rush did. 40 years in their career.

Oh yeah, Clockwork Angels. Rush are another band who have stayed driven thought their career.