*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[fischermasamune]

What does the choir sing in the end of Three Days (after "their minds")?

Also, is JLB singing, speaking and laughing the whole song? Or Richard Chycki has a part?

[Ben_Jamin]

I actually thought that part went a bit too long. But then, I know my opinion will change upon further listens. I don't mind the fadeout at all, which will make that song more interesting live as we'll get something new.

[Hanz Gruber]

There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

[bosk1]

  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

[Shooters1221]

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

I actually had to go out and intentionally wait for it. I listened to the album five times without noticing it. I thought it flowed great.

It's not a "complaint" on my end, and it's not abrupt IMO, I just want some more of it, which I think they might do in the live shows, I'll take at least 5 more minutes. 

[hefdaddy42]

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

It's not abrupt.  It's lazy song writing and DT is a band that has some of the greatest transitions from song to song historically.  I felt like they were just like, welp, we got nothing here, so fade out.

That's obviously what happened.

[Ben_Jamin]

The "Freedom if we live or if we die." Part is amazing in A Better Life, the harmonies and Mangini following along.

[BlackInk]

Anyone else let down by the "scream"?  I read the passage before listening and was so excited to here that, and then laughed at it.  Even my brother who was in the other room chimed in for that one part, "THAT?! that was the scream? lol"

Yeah I laugh every time I hear that. I also always laugh at "my MUUUSIIIC PLAAAYEEEER". That's just silly.

And I agree with fade-outs being a bit lazy. But it's only once, so fine.

[Kotowboy]

  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

The CD is one second shy of being A FULL DISC.  Fuck you Dream Theater. I want that god damned second you thieving gypsies !!!

[JustinSire]

It's curious to see the correlation between comments that claim "there's so much to digest" with comments that claim "I don't like it."

Chew your food first, digest, then talk sh*t.

Sorry to be blunt, but as a lurker it seems there are far too many knee-jerk reactions. My first listen to TA was a combination of being both under and overwhelmed. As constantly stated there is so much to process, and I found what I did process did not grab me. 3 or 4 more full listens did the trick, I began keying in on the intricacies, began anticipating the next movement, began salvating at what comes next. Now I'm in love. Now I can fully appreciate what DT has done here.

DT, for me, has always been an acquired taste. I always need time to appreciate their latest release. This is what makes DT so progressive. They always put something new on the menu for me to try. At first I might miss my usual dish, but once it all sinks in, I can't get enough.

I feel a lot of the criticism on this album comes from disagreeing with the direction DT went in. A lot seems to come from misunderstanding what DT has done. Look, if you don't like the sound, you don't like the sound. But criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point. You can't view TA through the SFAM lense. I feel facing this fact is what has dissapointed so many. This isn't a concept album. It's a rock opera. It's soup. If you start looking to pick out individual components you stop enjoying the thing for what it is.

Tldr: how can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

[Kotowboy]

Also I love 1:22 in Lord Nefaryus 

[Nihil-Morari]

criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point.

Well... 'The Point' is liking it or not. So if you don't like ballads, or feel certain songs to be filler songs, or if you happen to like standalone content, you don't like the album. How could disliking something be 'missing the point'?

[emtee]

I don't feel the need to try to change anyone's mind. Taste and subjectivity and all that jazz...

I will say this though, some of my all time favorite albums took many listens to sink in. if you are the type of person who likes
a large variety of music (not just metal) it might be worth spinning this a few more times before you put it on the shelf.
Then again, you may never like it.

[BelichickFan]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Lord Nafaryus is one of my favorite songs off the album. It's amazing.

[TioJorge]

There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

Not even complete.




I like it when I hear people call aspects of TA lazy. Yes, they constructed an entire world, characters, environment and literal backdrop all for a double album that is essential the new definition of rock-opera that spans roughly 130 minutes. Clearly, they've cut corners on this solo that is the length of what an average everyday song spans. Those lazy, lazy bastards. There can't possibly be any other explanation. *Storms into room, slams door and locks it*

I'm not even that hot on the album but gaw dayum. To say that this isn't one of the most detailed and ambitious albums ever created is just wrong. It's the equivalent of calling an active Olympic athlete lazy.

[Shooters1221]

  Not sure how a fadeout is "lazy songwriting."  That doesn't even make sense.  "The band didn't end a song the way I think it should have ended" is not "lazy."

The CD is one second shy of being A FULL DISC.  Fuck you Dream Theater. I want that god damned second you thieving gypsies !!!

I think we can all say that there is plenty of music here, but why not add that extra second?

[pcs90]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

I think the complaint is about the line in general, whether it was "music player", "mp3 player" or any other variation. It sounds fine the way it is.

[V_R11]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

[Shooters1221]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

I think the quick crying section is more cheesy, but I love cheese.

[Kotowboy]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

it sounds better than " My pers'nal Stereoooo. My Pers'nal Stereoooo "

[Logain Ablar]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

I think the quick crying section is more cheesy, but I love cheese.

I too have a high cheese tolerance, but if I thought too hard about it, "I'll treat them all to sonic ecstasy" might grate a bit.. 

[Peace and Love]

I am so happy that this monumental effort has 34 songs (!) because that gives us so much material to discuss in depth.

But I will start by saying that I love MM's drumming in A New Beginning. For me this is as "catchy" or "groovy" as anyone might reasonable desire - I think he surpassed all his previous performances in DT on this album. I am very pleased with his contributions 

[Cyclopssss]

Wow. After about two and a half listens, I´ll put in my two cents.

First off, major MAJOR kudos to the band for having the balls to even attempting such an enormous undertaking like this.
Thanks for not playing it safe. Second, there is still so much to process, but to me, this is the band returning to its Classic Dream Theater sound. Yes, there are a lot of ballady songs, and a lot is mellow, but there also is some great heavy, dense playing on this, increddibly tight too. I´m glad the forum points to the site for clearification on the story, it would be handy to have this in the booklet, but I can see why they chose this option.

It will take a lot more listens to familiarize me completely with the material, but I still have three weeks before the concerts start and by then I will know them by heart. I can see why this album is so polarizing the fanbase, though.

But a big  for this effort.

[7StringedBeast]

Seems everyone is misinterpreting my criticism of the fade out.  It's not that I want more solo time, it's that I wanted the song to go somewhere.  Which is a criticism I have of the album as a whole.  It just feels like none of the ideas really go anywhere.

I'm also entertained by people who seem to take personal offence to these criticisms.  This is just how I feel about it.  It shouldn't affect the way you feel at all.

[nemonius]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

First, awesome music! Must say though that I was amazed how cheesy the lyrics are It's better not listening them so closely.

[JustinSire]

criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point.

Well... 'The Point' is liking it or not. So if you don't like ballads, or feel certain songs to be filler songs, or if you happen to like standalone content, you don't like the album. How could disliking something be 'missing the point'?

Disliking something certainly is not missing the point. If you don't like the sound, you don't like it. Vocalizing your dislike with the criticism of saying what the album isn't, isn't good criticism. You may disagree with the approach, but that isn't good criticism. It can be a perfect reason to dislike somethig personally. It contributes nothing to rating the album though. It misses the point.

Much how saying "I haven't digested it all . . . I don't like it" is more of an illogical emotional response than a critical one. Digest the whole thing, if you are going to openly state your dislike, find solid reasoning. I'm not saying you personally haven't done this (I don't know), but many are treading on the album because of a) "I" can't work through it's complexity b) "they" phoned it in.

The first says more about the listener than the music, the 2nd is CritFic: lazy criticism that creates a fictualization rather than explanation of why something isn't "good."

[mike099]

Lord Nafaryus is one of my favorite songs off the album. It's amazing.

I love the song, but cannot get lion king out of my mind.   

[Peace and Love]

I LOVE the part at 1:04 of The Road to Revolution!

Brought to mind Trivium for some reason - the guitar tone and the drumming both for some reason gave me a Shogun vibe.

And then the section 2:20 again, Shogun- and In Waves-esque.

[Shooters1221]

criticisms of too many ballads, filler songs, not enough stand alone content; all miss the point.

Well... 'The Point' is liking it or not. So if you don't like ballads, or feel certain songs to be filler songs, or if you happen to like standalone content, you don't like the album. How could disliking something be 'missing the point'?

Disliking something certainly is not missing the point. If you don't like the sound, you don't like it. Vocalizing your dislike with the criticism of saying what the album isn't, isn't good criticism. You may disagree with the approach, but that isn't good criticism. It can be a perfect reason to dislike somethig personally. It contributes nothing to rating the album though. It misses the point.

Much how saying "I haven't digested it all . . . I don't like it" is more of an illogical emotional response than a critical one. Digest the whole thing, if you are going to openly state your dislike, find solid reasoning. I'm not saying you personally haven't done this (I don't know), but many are treading on the album because of a) "I" can't work through it's complexity b) "they" phoned it in.

The first says more about the listener than the music, the 2nd is CritFic: lazy criticism that creates a fictualization rather than explanation of why something isn't "good."

 

[Train of Naught]

There's only a couple of albums that I'm as excited about as this one, 2015 was an amazing year for music, but this album keeps growing on me on every listen, I know I'm kinda getting ahead of myself but I can very easily see this album being top half DT material, might even crack the top 3.

Like I predicted though, the 'standout' tracks of the first few listen won't be as shockingly good as they were on first listen compared to the other songs, songs like Three Days and Lord Nafaryus, I still love Three Days very much though.

Don;t want to derail but what came out in 2015?  I feel like I missed out.

Here you can find some of DTF's faves: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=44941.0
Highlights in the end for me were The Dear Hunter - Act IV, Native Construct - Quiet World and Periphery - Juggernaut.

Back on-topic: Just came back from a local music store and I got the salesman to check out The Astonishing with my convincing words 

[Cyclopssss]

Also: ´I AM HERE TO HEAR HIM SING´ Damn, how awesome will it be to hear that live?

[wideworldofmike]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

First, awesome music! Must say though that I was amazed how cheesy the lyrics are It's better not listening them so closely.

I was rolling my eyes at Our New World's chorus at 1st listen but after reading the story and seeing how specific the lyrics esp the verses are to the characters I think its actually some of their best song writing and one of my top songs from the record. the 1st verse is especially great for me personally.

From just listening on the surface, you won't know that the main character singing to his nephew, a child never knew his mom and just lost his father, telling him what is really important is how he decides to live despite what he lost or has been given...at that he and his new princess girlfriend with pink hair will adopt him and shower him in riches of the kingdom and the music of DT

[Progmetty]

I don't get the hate for "my music player".  What other choice did they have ?  "My CD player" ?  "My MP3 player" ?  Whatever they picked would probably seem out dated in 10 years.  So while it may not be optimal, "Music Player" seems like the best choice.

It's not the wording. It's that the "my music player" line sounds a bit cheesy

I figured because it's a girl singing.

[wizard of Thought]

Does anyone else notice that the intro riff to A New Beginning is somewhat like a riff out of Cowboys From Hell (Pantera)?
I don`t know, maybe it`s just me, but the riff sounded quite familiar when hearing the intro. Love it btw